Tires, any recommendations? [Archive] - Honda Element Owners Club Forum

: Tires, any recommendations?


niblo1
04-26-2004, 11:01 PM
The factory tires are wearing out quickly! Need some feedback. :D

Florida Roadie
04-26-2004, 11:16 PM
Niblo..I chose Michelin cross terrain suv... 225/70/16.. These proved to be a major improvement in both handling & reduction in road noise. Here where I live in Florida we have very heavy tropical type rains & this was my primary reason for chosing these specific tires. I hope this has help .. 8)

Kayakin' Dan
04-26-2004, 11:56 PM
I just got Continental something or others...225/70/16. Way better than the POS wranglers.

LMN_OP
04-27-2004, 12:05 AM
Firestone Destination LE, half the cost of Michelins and rated higher too.

joeBoxer
04-27-2004, 12:20 AM
for me it would depend on the look you might want to achieve. if stock is fine, i would go with either the destination LE from firestone or the michelin cross terrain.

if you want to stand out from the crowd, be a little more aggressive :twisted: and have a little extra change, then you definitely need bfg all terrain ta/kos in 235/70/16 or 225/70/16 size. i mention both sizes because owners have reported that both have fit, though some have claimed the 235s have rubbed for them while others say they fit fine - not an uncommon occurance btw, sometimes the same tire will fit differently on two different vehicles of the same model!

rafale
04-27-2004, 09:23 AM
[quote:2235e94bc5=" "]Firestone Destination LE, half the cost of Michelins and rated higher too.[/quote:2235e94bc5]

I haven't been able to trust Firestone recently, so let us know how they last and maybe you can change some opinions.

LMN_OP
04-27-2004, 09:49 AM
[quote:7dba14d809=" "][quote:7dba14d809=" "]Firestone Destination LE, half the cost of Michelins and rated higher too.[/quote:7dba14d809]

I haven't been able to trust Firestone recently, so let us know how they last and maybe you can change some opinions.[/quote:7dba14d809]
go to tirerack.com and check the users' reviews. They are ranked second to Yoko Geolandar HT/S in all-weather SUV tire category.

joeBoxer
04-27-2004, 10:41 AM
i had a set of Firestone Destination LEs on an Escape and they were superb. smoother ride, long lasting, quieter on the road.

i think Firestone is trying to overcome all their negative publicity from the past by offering great designs and prices with their newest tires like the LE.

Element
04-28-2004, 06:25 PM
What about the Pirelli Scorpion STR?

They were rated treadwear 520
traction A
temp A

Pirelli's were graded better than Michelin and Firestone. Anyone has these on? :D

Florida Roadie
04-28-2004, 08:33 PM
Niblo 1 ..I haven't seen any comment from you in regard to the tire advice that you were seeking. I've seen a few suggestions about various mfg. companies. The Michlein tires that I suggested Cross/terrain are rated at 8.5 overall. I see that you are in Texas and probably have weather much like we have here in Florida. Here we need traction in heavy rains.(rated 9 in wet weather) If your looking for tread life in hot weather (rated 9) again. & if your looking for quiet ride (rated 10).. What brings them down to an 8.5 are winter conditions that we seldom see here in Florida. The Firestone's that I had on my Subaru rode like they had corners& the Dunlops that I replaced the Firestons with were even worse. That is after force balance & alignment twice. We use both Continental & Michlein for racing & the are about the same in price but the Michleins outlast the Conties by a wide margin. Replacing your tires is an opportunity to make one of the most important upgrades to your E. I would select a tire made for your specific driving needs .I think these ratings can vary greatly depending on the vehicle on which they are mounted.

Empire
04-28-2004, 10:00 PM
I'm still extremely happy with my 235/70/16 Bridgestone Dueler A/T REVO tires. Great aggressive design and excellent grip wet or dry on or off road. And they're ranked #1 on TireRack in the off-road/all terrain line up.

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/bridgestone/bs_dueler_at_revo_wl_ci2_l.jpg
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Dueler+A%2FT+Revo

You can see in the pic below how big of a difference the 235's make in filling up the wheel well as opposed to the stock 215's.

http://www.pix8.net/files/mud03.jpg

paulj
04-28-2004, 11:09 PM
Any evidence of those 235/70/16 tires hitting the underside of the fenders when going over bumps?

I haven't had a chance to observe the tire motion, so don't know how high the suspension allows them to move. It may be that with independent suspension like this, the tires just swing down, but don't rise much above the 'resting' position.

paulj

niblo1
04-28-2004, 11:37 PM
I don't do alot of off road stuff. I just want a quiet ride and long lasting. But I would like to be able to go off road if need be. Also, do the 235's mess with the speedometer? :?: All this info is helpful but confusing... :wink:

Florida Roadie
04-29-2004, 07:30 AM
Niblo1 ..Don't be confused by my stuff .I am far from an expert on tires. But as a consumer / car owner I have gathered some experience. After 53 years of both driving & 68 years of living,you get what you pay for if your lucky. :? What I have gathered in experience is ,I'll never own another car/suv/truck that doesn't have top level tires & they will be Michelin if at all posible. :lol: I had 700 miles on the factory supplied Wrangler when I swapped them out for my present Michelins . I thought that the Wrangler seemed like a fairly good tire.. I still changed to Michelin because I think they are the best tire buy out there. Ever since my experience with tire frustration on my new 95 Firebird Trans am (Goodyears) it has been Michelin only. At this time, I try not to buy anything French but I caved in when it came to tires. My most valuable treasure is my Wife & she races on Michelins ( She is last years Seniors State champion 5k & 10k) and I trust Michelin to be the safest tire out there,day after day.

I am not certain of this but it was told to me by my tire expert ,that moving up 2 sizes will screw up your A B S system & probably will cause rubbing problems under certain suspension flexes. For me it is not how cool the tires look but how cool they run .. My experiences in Texas has not been far from living here in Florida ,Hot, Wet/stormy,sandy & flat. The E is a different vehical since I switched to Michelin cross terrain. Much,much quieter :P I hope that this has helped to clear the air/confusion for you Niblo 1

paulj
04-29-2004, 12:06 PM
Regarding the wear on your stock tires - don't just base your judgement on the apparent baldness of the edge of the tires. There are some shallow tread grooves there, which disappear quickly.

Regarding replacements, there are several issues. Many who do change tires early, and talk about, are as interested in changing the appearance, as in other issues - they talk of increasing the size, filling the wheelwell better, etc. Selection also comes into play. The stock size has a more limited selection, while there are more tires in the 225/70/16 or 235 size. So if you are set on a particular tread style you may have to change size. It is easy to get an idea of selection by searching on tirerack.com (not that they carry every brand, most notably they don't carry Cooper and related brands).

The jury is still out on the matter of whether changing tire model or size helps with 'off-road'. Empire got his Element good and dirty while playing in the mud with his larger tires. I have had a lot of fun bouncing down rocky jeep trails on my stock tires. With larger tire sizes you have a greater choice of tires with aggressive treads, but those tires are also noisy. A larger tire increases ground clearance a bit (70% of 20mm in the 235/70/16 case), but may reduce articulation a bit, and may increase turning circle an small amount. It is probably better to base your choice on the majority of your driving, not the few miles that you might take down some piney lane or dry river bed. Without serious preparation it is unwise to push the Element to the limit of its tires when soft-roading.

paulj

LMN_OP
04-29-2004, 03:10 PM
My experience with 225/70 Destination LE's so far:
Overall quieter and smoother thatn stock Goodyears. Better looking too, and tires are balanced enough not to require balancing.
Had to raise tire pressure. At recommended psi, quick turns were delayed, as in tires took longer to react to steering input.
Raised pressure to 38/40 F/R and handling tighten up nicely, might try max pressure of 44 to see how it feels.
Acceleration slowed, but that is to be expected from taller tires, fringe benefit being lower RPM at given speed, but can't prove that without speedo recalibration.
Overall, happy with the purchase. $295 for the set. Compare that to cost of 4 Michelins!

Florida Roadie
04-29-2004, 04:04 PM
4 225/70 Cross Terrain Michelins ,mounted,road forced balanced ,plus pickup & delivery service. 598.00 $ .minus 50$ rebate from Michelin ..
Bottom line Great tire ,Great service ...548.00 A 60,000 mile tire from a local dealer that will be there if the @#$& hits the fan ..

Einstein
04-29-2004, 08:47 PM
I have been considering Kumho Ecsta 235/70HR-16 for a while. Last week I saw them (in another size) on an Avalanche, they are beautiful!

As for the stock tires, at state inspection a few weeks ago they said I have 9/32" all around I'm at 10K miles). I was surprised, I thought they must be halfway worn by the way they look. Nope, it's just the way the tires are shaped/made. So I'm waiting until at least next year, so I get some more use out of them.

rafale
04-30-2004, 08:42 AM
It is probably better to base your choice on the majority of your driving, not the few miles that you might take down some piney lane or dry river bed.

Very good advice. When my old CRX Si was my daily driver I kept a decent treaded tire on it and had a set of "racing" tires on steel wheels that I swapped out for whenever I went autocrossing. They were good tires for autocross but horrible and scarey in the rain.

Since 95% of my E driving is on road and highway, I want to stick with a quiet, long-life tire that will give me good wet and dry traction. Since there are so many people selling their DX steel wheels I may buy a set and throw on some A/T or mud tires, just for those weekends when I drive into the mountains.

paulj
05-07-2004, 12:07 AM
LMN_OP
Do you have any idea how the contact patch of your wider, but higher pressure tires compares with the stock tires? I recently raised the pressure in my tires a couple of lbs all around, and am beginning to suspect that I've reduced the contact patch width by as much as 10 mm.

paulj

LMN_OP
05-07-2004, 10:21 AM
visually, I can't tell, and can't quantify traction/braking distance with higher pressure. I'm just gonna keep an eye on them in case they wear irregularly.
To me tightened up handling outweighs any contact patch loss from higher pressure, if indeed there are any loss at all in contact patch size.

snowshoe
05-07-2004, 11:32 AM
Last fall, before the snow started, I put the Michelin HydroEdge tires on our Volvo V70 AWD XC. These tires have performed wonderfully and made a very positive difference in both the ride and the handling of the vehicle. Although these tires are a tad pricey...I tend to be a bit discriminating about the quality and performance of the rubber under my vehicles. Although I only have 4,000+ miles on the Elements original tires...I suspect that I will be changing these to the HydroEdge before the snows start again this year.

Florida Roadie
05-07-2004, 12:55 PM
Snowshoe ,I changed the Wranglers to Michelin Cross/Terrain 225/70/16.I think they are rated at a 10 wet weather ,probably as high as the Hydro edge. :o I'm not certain that Michelin offers the Hydro Edge in the needed size. Do they ? What I noticed is better handling & a more quiet ride . :D I now have 3500 miles on the new Michelins & would do it again tomorrow.

In regard to using higher tire pressue ,I think it reduces roll resistance ,but increases tire wear. At least this is how it works in the world of cycling tires.

snowshoe
05-07-2004, 01:02 PM
You may have a point...I hadn't checked actual sizing yet.
If the HydroEdge can't fit the Element I may take a look at the Michelin Pilot LTX. It seems as though no matter what other tires I may buy, I always come back to Michelin.

paulj
05-07-2004, 01:20 PM
If you increase the tire width, and at the same time increase pressure, you may not end up gaining anything in terms of traction - assuming traction depends, in part, on the contact area. Obviously there are other reasons for increasing the width, such as looks, changing the profile, and selection .

paulj

Florida Roadie
05-07-2004, 02:19 PM
Snowshoe ..Yes I'm with you on those Michelins. My wife & I are to the point in life that we want the best tires available ,for our safety regardless of price. As I stated in an earlier post reply,we also use Michelin tires on our racing bikes. We also use Conti. but they wear much more quickly. Not only from this experience but from over the years,time & time again Michelin has been the best. I have had just one bad Michelin tire on our cars & never on our bikes. The bike tires are inflated to as high as 180lbs. psi. & if a front tire blows at +20mph. your a$$ has had it. :!: :!: So it's Michelin.

Are you near Iron Mt. ?

snowshoe
05-07-2004, 06:51 PM
Are you near Iron Mt. ?
No...we are in what is called the northern lower peninsula...about 90 miles straight south of the Mackinac Bridge...200 miles north of Detroit. Very beautiful country here.
My wife & I are to the point in life that we want the best tires available
Us too!

Florida Roadie
05-07-2004, 10:19 PM
Snowshoe. The 225/70/16 tires that I had mounted made more of a visual differance than I first thought. :D When I see other E's with the OEM Wranglers I realize just what they did to the appearence. :P Makes it look mean. :evil: brendan has pics of my E & will post them for me. (I.m just not able ) :shock: Maybe you & the others will also get to eyeball my side moldings.

brendan
05-07-2004, 10:31 PM
[quote:48d1e01c35=" "]brendan has pics of my E & will post them for me. (I.m just not able ) :shock: .[/quote:48d1e01c35]

I do? Nothing came in the mail yet...

-brendan

Florida Roadie
05-07-2004, 10:37 PM
I'll do'em again.. I guess I sent them to your Hong Kong office. :lol:

Edison
05-08-2004, 04:57 AM
Florida Roadie Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 6:37 pm Post subject: No Mail ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll do'em again.. I guess I sent them to your Hong Kong office.


...first it was Brendan's comment about the NSA and now this "Hong Kong" connection "slip-up" by Florida Roadie!!! Some sort of code, maybe? Kinda 007ish, huh... Curiouser and curiouser :?


8)

snowshoe
05-08-2004, 07:21 AM
...first it was Brendan's comment about the NSA and now this "Hong Kong" connection "slip-up" by Florida Roadie!!! Some sort of code, maybe? Kinda 007ish, huh... Curiouser and curiouser
Well...when Brendan jets back from his current mission I will look forward to seeing the pictures! :lol:

Florida Roadie
05-08-2004, 08:54 AM
Sorry to dissapoint everyone,but no secret mission .Just a screwup by me ! :? Brendan is guilty of trying to help the helpless :oops: I've done some very nice & usefull mods to my E but can't seem to post pics. :? He's just trying to help. I'll have to go back & check ,I think this may not be my first mistake :P

snowshoe
05-08-2004, 10:01 AM
I seem to recall that Brendan was traveling this weekend...so here are the images from Florida Roadie:

http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/harry3.jpg

And another:

http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/harry2-400.jpg

Great looking tires AND side moulding!

brendan
05-08-2004, 04:38 PM
[quote:76a5fa9763=" "]I seem to recall that Brendan was traveling this weekend...so here are the images from Florida Roadie:

http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/harry3.jpg

And another:

http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/harry2-400.jpg

Great looking tires AND side moulding![/quote:76a5fa9763]

No, I think it's Florida Roadie who's got activities and is therefore a bit distracted. We went back and forth in PM a few times...I was trying to show how to use the bracket-img-bracket and bracket-slash-img-bracket tags, but each time it got lost in translation.

Anyway, here are the images sent to me:

http://brendan.org/harry/scan0001.jpg
http://brendan.org/harry/scan0002.jpg
http://brendan.org/harry/scan0012.jpg
http://brendan.org/harry/scan0013.jpg
http://brendan.org/harry/scan0015.jpg
http://brendan.org/harry/scan0016.jpg

-brendan

Edison
05-09-2004, 06:09 AM
No?? I'm so disappointed! Sheesh... and I had this image of... well, nevermind! :(

Florida Roadie: The photos are lovely! :)




8)

Florida Roadie
05-09-2004, 08:38 AM
Edison ...Thanks,it was "Love at first sight " :D

Tygh
05-17-2004, 11:10 PM
I just put the Firestones on my E and I love the look!! Does anyone have any idea how much the bigger tire (225/70) will affect the speedometer readings??

paulj
05-17-2004, 11:46 PM
The specs pages on Tirerack give the overall diameter and revolutions for various tires. Look up the Wrangler HP stock size, and yours to get an idea of the change in revolutions.

paulj

Tygh
05-18-2004, 10:12 AM
I actually found a website that will calculate everything for you. Keeps me from having to use my brain!!!

http://pw1.netcom.com/~sgalaba/tiresize.htm

Florida Roadie
05-18-2004, 02:32 PM
[quote=" "]I actually found a website that will calculate everything for you. Keeps me from having to use my brain!!!

__________________________________________________ _____________________

Sooooooo share with us please. I may be even more brain conserving... :oops:

What did you find out. & did it take into consideration the effects on the ABS system ?? If any... :idea:

Tygh
05-18-2004, 03:13 PM
Only deals with speedometer. At 65mph, the speedo will read 63.75, so it is not drastically affected by the bigger tires. $65 to recalibrate the speedo, but I don't think it is necessary.

Florida Roadie
05-18-2004, 03:33 PM
[quote:9cbf188301=" "]Only deals with speedometer. At 65mph, the speedo will read 63.75, so it is not drastically affected by the bigger tires. $65 to recalibrate the speedo, but I don't think it is necessary.[/quote:9cbf188301]

__________________________________________________ _____________________

Thanks for that info Tigh.. What I discovered was ,one size up ,no problemo, two sizes up screws up the ABS system & about 5mph diff. to the speedometer. That info I got from the tire expert at the Michelin dealers.
For me tha change was positive ,running more quiet & handled better. It also looks meaner. In this case both fashion & function. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Honu
05-19-2004, 01:11 AM
I am pretty bummed about the lack of selection in the stock Element sizes, without changing diameters, messing up the odometer.speedometer or having to replace the Aluminum wheels you paid extra for, and are plenty happy with.

None of my "best buy" "commuter performance" tires come in Element sizes it seems. :( Only garbage or high priced sneakers. Seems odd to have to pay twice the price for Element tires as I did for excellent performing moderately big 4WD truck tires.

Does anyone know, from experience by now, if and what the impact on gas mileage is for the wider profile or heavier tires? Anything noticeable or is in the "round off error". People must have noticed some difference or lack of it by now.

I normally like the Yokos, but the Geolanders have a history of being lumpy and out of round, which I found to be true on my truck. Yoko Avid touring are a GREAT passenger car tire, but don't come in the Element size.

I was running $70 siped "Arizonian Silver Edition"(Discount Tires store brand) on my truck with EXCELLENT all weather (including snow and rain and ice) performance and long wear. Weird they are available in a truck size but not the smaller Element size.

Seems like I must pay $140 plus just to start to get a decent tire for the Element. Being a cheapskate, I have ALWAYS been able to find bargain good performance tires for my fleet (includes wife and 2 driving daughters.) for much less than that

Edison
05-19-2004, 09:13 AM
I was running $70 siped "Arizonian Silver Edition"(Discount Tires store brand) on my truck with EXCELLENT all weather (including snow and rain and ice) performance and long wear.

I was looking at Les Schwab's web site the other day and they mention siping as a good thing and recommended. I admit to being ignorant about it, tho, so what's the deal? If it's a good thing, why aren't all tires siped? :?



8)

paulj
05-19-2004, 11:49 AM
Honu,

What are your prefered tires, and what do you base your preferences on?

Tirerack lists 20 tires in the stock size, less than the 52 it lists for 235/70/16, but still something of a selection. Locally you might have trouble finding a shop that carries more than one model in the stock size. When shopping for this size for my RAV4 several years ago, I ended up buying from a Cooper dealer in Mountlake Terrace (Factory Direct) who had the best selection. I've been quite happy with the Mastercraft tires I got there.

Getting back to the Tirerack listings, I don't see anything unusual about the price range, from $64 to $115. The Highway All Season category seems well enough represented. There is only one in the all-terrain category, so moving up a size or 2 for this is a good choice, plus it would increase ground clearance a bit.

paulj

Florida Roadie
05-19-2004, 11:57 AM
__________________________________________________ ____________________
I don't see anything unusual about the price range, from $64 to $115. The Highway All Season category seems well enough represented. There is only one in the all-terrain category, so moving up a size or 2 for this is a good choice, plus it would increase ground clearance a bit.

paulj[/quote]
__________________________________________________ _____________________

Right on paulj, Definitly worth the $$ to move up a size.

Element
05-19-2004, 04:21 PM
What about the Pirelli Scorpion STR?

They were rated treadwear 520
traction A
temp A

Pirelli's were graded better than Michelin and Firestone. Anyone has these on?
_________________

LMN_OP
05-19-2004, 07:54 PM
[quote:355a05a0c7=" "]What about the Pirelli Scorpion STR?

They were rated treadwear 520
traction A
temp A

Pirelli's were graded better than Michelin and Firestone. Anyone has these on?
_________________[/quote:355a05a0c7]
On tirerack.com ranking, Firestone is third and Pirelli is 13th.
Who's grades are you getting this from?

paulj
05-19-2004, 09:02 PM
By 'graded' does he mean the tread wear rating (520), or the subjective 'would you buy again' numbers given by tirerack customers? The treadwear number is more objective, but higher is not necessarily better. A hard rubber can give longer treadlife, but a softer rubber can give better traction in a number of situations.

After seeing the diversity of user reviews at Tirerack (this tire is great, this tire is horrible ...), I've come to read the user numbers with great caution. Any one reviewer has only had experience with a few sets of tires, and few have done side by side comparisons of wet or snow traction. Even though I have two cars with the same size tires, I can't say which brand of tire has better traction in various situations, because I can't rule out differences in the two cars (RAV4 and Element).

paulj

Honu
05-19-2004, 11:36 PM
Siping is putting a multitude of razor thin slices across the tire tread. It is NOT supposed to diminish the tread life but DOES help in wet and especially icey conditions to boost traction and braking power a tad. If you NEVER have icey conditions, it probably a waste, but in the greater Seattle area, IMHO studded snow tires are overkill (and shred the roadways) and after many years of resisting, several of us in the family got the siping and it does seem to make a difference. It costs I think about $6 a tire, which isn't too bad.

I generally get my tires from Discount Tires locally, after having "bad luck" interacting with a number of other local suppliers and being nervous about Firestones after their SERIES of recalls over the years. (seems a little scarey they didn't shape up after the first recall). But Discount Tires carries only TWO options locally in the stock size, both over $100 a tire.

I have yet to feel comfortable with mail ordering tires, as tempermental as new tires can be, so I have not gone with Tire Rack, although i have yet to hear anything bad about them. This may be the time to consider the Rack, just due to lack of local options.

paulj
05-20-2004, 12:41 AM
Though if Discount includes installation in their price, you might not do any better getting them from Tirerack (based on prices I see for Pirellis and Geolanders). With Tirerack you have shipping costs (about $10/tire), and local installation costs.

paulj

paulj
05-20-2004, 03:59 PM
Talking about poor tire selection, I just noticed that the Jeep Liberty has 215/75/16 as a stock size. Tirerack only lists one tire in that size, the Wrangler ST, which gets pretty poor reviews from a couple of Gr Cherokee owners (though a CRV owner liked them as replacements).

If there was good selection in that size I wouldn't mind moving up to it, getting a bit more profile without going wider. But our selection is 10 times better. The alternate Jeep size is 235/70/16 which does have a good selection.

paulj

stringjerker
05-20-2004, 05:36 PM
Why would you want a taller tire? Handling will be adversely affected. It will hurt the already marginal acceleration and make your speedometer read slower than you are actually going. It won't make a significant difference in the ground clearance. Tall tires won't make it look better. I'm not trying to start an argument, just trying to understand your point of view.

Dave

paulj
05-20-2004, 08:17 PM
There are a number posts from people who have changed to larger sizes such as 225/70/16, 225/75/16 and 235/70/16. These are all a bit wider as well as taller. Some do it for looks, some for selection, and some claim a bit more clearance. For some of us the acceleration of the Element is plenty. I recall only one person who claimed poorer handling, which he countered by increasing pressure (and effectively reducing contact patch).

I'd chance size more for tread selection than any other reason, but it's not something I plan to do soon.

paulj

Tygh
05-20-2004, 10:04 PM
[quote:cc1e419c6e=" "]Why would you want a taller tire? Handling will be adversely affected. It will hurt the already marginal acceleration and make your speedometer read slower than you are actually going. It won't make a significant difference in the ground clearance. Tall tires won't make it look better. I'm not trying to start an argument, just trying to understand your point of view.

Dave[/quote:cc1e419c6e]

The effect on the speedo accuracy is negligible with 225/70's. Only gives a 2% read error at 65mph. And, the taller tires do look better as they fill the wheelwell quite nicely. Moving up to the 225's allows for a much greater selection.

Honu
05-21-2004, 12:24 AM
I don't particularly want a "taller" tire. Heck they are already much bigger than my Accord...do I really NEED more than that? But for my Accord I can get some EXCELLENT tires for $70-$80 each installed. (Discount Tires Stores prices include mounting and a pretty low on hidden costs and extras, which is another reason I like the place.)

What I WANT is selection in a bargain All-season tire. :roll:

If I go to stock size in an all-season, good for "light" winter tire, it narrows it down to 2 tires at DT and not many more at Tire Rack.

I have run Yoko Geolanders on my former truck, and they performed pretty well, although they wore out fast, had a roundness problem, and were just moderate for wet conditions, but were pretty good for $90 each in big 4WD truck size. I have run Yokos on other cars with good all season performance, and good bang for the buck, but they were always fairly cheap. The "new updated" Geolander is one of the two available for the Element at DT. But its no longer so much a "bargain" tire at $110 each in the Element size. But reading the specs, which seemed to address former weaknesses, and based on Yokohamas past reputation, I may end up giving these a shot eventually.

Has anyone tried or considered the "new" Geolanders on an Element yet? with so many swapping out the original tires, I am suprised no one seems to have tried these yet. It would be nice if I didn't have to be the lab rat :?

Tygh
05-21-2004, 09:05 AM
The 225's are only .5" bigger diameter than the 215's. My main reason for moving up in size was selection. I too experienced the "We only have one tire in that size" from every shop around.

BTW, I would never again use the OEM tires. They wore out at 20k miles and were not very good for the 20k!

Beachbabeis
05-21-2004, 11:16 AM
If I had to buy new tires I'd go for Firestone Destination LE in 225/70-16 for $70

http://pw1.netcom.com/~sgalaba/tiresize.htm

They are 2% larger and .55 inches taller and should drop RPM by 2% , this slightly taller gearing ~might~ slightly increase highway MPG, slightly reduce city MPG, and slightly reduce acceleration and uphill grade driveability.


Surveyed Averages

Dry -- 9.1
Traction

Wet -- 8.8
Traction

Hydro -- 8.6
Resistance

Snow -- 8
Traction

Cornering -- 8.5
Stability

Steering -- 8.7
Response

Ride -- 8.7
Comfort

Noise -- 8.5
Comfort

Tread -- 8.5
Wear



http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Firestone&tireModel=Destination+LE


But I hope that more tires choices in 215/70-16 will be available in a year

If not, then I might use the factory wheels for snow tires and buy a 17" wheel and tire package.

LMN_OP
05-21-2004, 01:31 PM
I went with 225/70 Destination LE's and my coworkers have commented on them improving the overall looks of my E.
If you decide to go with the LE's, run air at 40 psi to improve handling.

Beachbabeis
05-21-2004, 04:10 PM
[quote:4700b2543d=" "]I went with 225/70 Destination LE's and my coworkers have commented on them improving the overall looks of my E.
If you decide to go with the LE's, run air at 40 psi to improve handling.[/quote:4700b2543d]


How did the LE's affect the MPG?

Honu
05-21-2004, 04:30 PM
So it seems that Firestones are a major contender for "best buy" Element tires. And I do have a Firestone dealer that I actually trust and like and use for about everything EXCEPT tires.

I am a little gunshy of Firestones after their recall history over the years, and EACH time thinking "But now for sure they will fix their issues."

anyone have a feel if the Firestone Destinations are going to be peeling tread off on the freeway in a year? Any gut feel about Firestone FINALLY cleaning up their act? Thats about all that holds me back, otherwise those look like darn good specs.

LMN_OP
05-21-2004, 06:01 PM
Hard to tell if MPG is affected for better or worse since speedo would read lower with bigger tires, but I didn't notice any difference.
As for reliability, Bridgestone owns Firestone now, and both use Uni-T technology so I wouldn't worry about it.

Florida Roadie
05-21-2004, 08:21 PM
[quote=" "]So it seems that Firestones are a major contender for "best buy" Element tires.
__________________________________________________ ____________________

Honu...I've had Firestone tires on two cars/trucks in recent years. Most recently was on my 2000 Subaru outback.. I had that car aligned & force balanced twice trying to get a decent ride. Once at the dealers & once at a friends tire shop. Finally Subaru agreed to a replacment on those tires.

Being a "GoodGuy" I agreed to buying a tire of equal price. I agreed to Dunlop ..Man !! Ever hear the expression ,from the frying pan into the fire ? That was me :cry: After 10,000 miles of agony I bought Michelins .I'm not fond of the company for "personel reasons" but unless they drop the quality level of their products,I am using Michelins forever :lol: P.S. Don't show them this post.. :lol:

joeBoxer
05-21-2004, 10:22 PM
well i ordered a set of Bridgestone AT/Revos in 235/70/16 today. i was down to Michelin Cross Terrains, BFG All-Terrain TA/KOs and the Revos. the $50 rebate (ends tomorrow) on a set of four helped seal the deal, along with the best ratings on TireRack.com.

my thinking (confirmed by tire rack) was the michelins are too soft in the sidewalls and not aggressive enough looking (though they do have the smoothest, quietest ride and the michelin name), the BFGs, though they looked the most aggressive, were probably gonna be a little too noisy on the highway and how much offroading can you do in the E anyway? so, i went with the Revos, which were a nice compromise, the latest technology (newer design than the other two), the best price and the highest rated!

also, earlier in this thread someone mentioned that a tire dealer told them there could be ABS issues when going up two sizes. investigated that too and the verdict was, NOT SO if you keep all four tires the same size.

will be mounting these whites in, as i am not a fan of raised white letters.

Florida Roadie
05-21-2004, 11:04 PM
joeBoxer...That was me that said two sizes up or more would screw up the ABS. I got that info from a Honda mechanic /alignment wrench. So I guess he's wrong on this one. What was your source Joe please ? :shock:

joeBoxer
05-21-2004, 11:43 PM
on the phone with tire rack (two different people there) and all the tire stores i've been talking to while doing all my comparison shopping and empire who has the exact same size and tires. tires.com also lists the 235 as a fit that is acceptable.

HappyCamper
05-22-2004, 12:17 AM
[quote:22787483d2=" "]joeBoxer...That was me that said two sizes up or more would screw up the ABS. I got that info from a Honda mechanic /alignment wrench. So I guess he's wrong on this one. What was your source Joe please ? :shock:[/quote:22787483d2]

Here is a Popular Mechanics article on the subject. It sounds on target to me.
http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/sub_care_clinic/2002/5/auto_clinic_502/index2.phtml

joeBoxer
05-22-2004, 01:25 AM
http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/sub_care_clinic/2002/5/auto_clinic_502/index.phtml is the link. thanks for the confirmation in print jerry the happy camper. do you have different tires on your E?

calvin13
05-22-2004, 01:09 PM
i took off those stock pos tires and put on goodyear rs-a 225/60. love them. my e handles alot better. anybody want to buy 4 almost new (only 2500 miles on them) pos tires?

calvin13
05-22-2004, 01:10 PM
i took off those stock pos tires and put on goodyear rs-a 225/60. love them. my e handles alot better. anybody want to buy 4 almost new (only 2500 miles on them) pos tires?

paulj
05-22-2004, 02:01 PM
I looked up the RS/A tires on the Goodyeartires web site, and compared its ratings with Goodyear's ratings for the Wranglers:


'SUV' tires
Wrangler HP
Dry Traction 10
Wet Traction 9
Snow Traction 6
Off-Road Traction 4
Ride comfort na
Quiet Ride 9

'performance tires'
Eagle RS/A
Dry Traction 7
Wet Traction 8
Snow Traction 8
Off-Road Traction na
Ride comfort 7
Quiet Ride 8

On the face of it the Wranglers seem to have a better rating. However it is likely that these 'ratings' apply only within a category. That is, the HP has great dry traction compared to other 'SUV' tires that Goodyear makes, while the RS/A is being compared to the other 'performance' tires, such as the $400 GS-Fiorano.

The owner survey numbers from Tirerack for these 2 tires are remarkably similar, on the low side of average in most categories. But even here there probably is a difference in expectations, those of SUV owners v. sedan owners.

paulj

calvin13
05-22-2004, 03:18 PM
that could be so. but i like to compare apples and oranges. i can tell you that on my e the rsa works better.

Element
05-22-2004, 03:26 PM
Paulj you are correct that treadwear is not the most important feature of a given tire. I just mentioned Perilli's because i don't see too many tires that offer a high treadwear (520) with traction (A) and temp (A) . Most companies i see is either have a lower treadwear with traction (A) with a temp of (B).

I have about 16K on the OEM's and i know within a year i have to get a better set. People on this board have mentioned Michelin's, Firestone's and Geolander's but not the Perill's.

I wish their was a front runner for us to pick, but life is not that easy :D

paulj
05-22-2004, 04:11 PM
For use on an Element does a temp A rating really matter, or is B good enough?
According to:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/speed.jsp
The Pirellis haveH & V speed ratings, i.e. 130-149 mph max speed. Given the European origin of these tires that makes sense.
The Geolanders have Q and S ratings, 99-112 max mph. That is plenty for most USA driving in an Element.


I was hoping to get a clue from the Goodyear ratings as to why calvin13 has found the RS/A tires to be so much better than the HPs. I concluded that the numbers could not be compared. Based on the tread pictures I'd guess the RS/A tires would give better dry traction, but poorer ice traction - more like a racing tire than a winter tire. The UTOG of 260A(B/A) also suggests that the rubber may be softer, and thus grip on dry pavement better. I've noticed, though, that the UTOG varies some between sizes and service ratings within a given model.

paulj

HappyCamper
05-22-2004, 07:40 PM
[quote:0219f5d17b=" "]http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/sub_care_clinic/2002/5/auto_clinic_502/index.phtml is the link. thanks for the confirmation in print jerry the happy camper. do you have different tires on your E?[/quote:0219f5d17b]

I'm still on my stock tires, Paul, at about 21K miles. I could probably get 30K on them if I wanted to go all the way down to the treadwear marker, but that's too marginal for me. I'm going to change to something else myself soon.

calvin13
05-23-2004, 03:49 PM
the stock tires were terrible in the rain. they would hydro easily. from a stop the would spin upon accelerating. i understand that i have a suv but i do not like tires that would roll under cornering. as far as ice, well if i have ice down here there is s big problem. i only keep tires about 20k miles. after that they are pretty much useless. they have had to many heat cycles and become to hard. again that is just my personal preference. glad that i live in the USA. that allowes me and all of use to express out opinions.