Has anyone had experience passing chain, or chain hooks through the towloops on the Element? How about shackles? I am trying figure out what size straps and/or chains I can use on the Element, either for self recovery with a come-along, or with someone else's help.

The hooks on my come-along fit fine, but I really need a 5 to 10' extension between the winch and the car. I have some 1/2" shackles that fit, but the 3/4" size that all the off-road books recomend may not. 5/16 or 3/8" chain links might fit, but the grab hooks that work with them do not look like they would work (the hook is too large to fit through the loop, and the throat of the hook is too narrow to fit the 1/2" diameter tow loop bar). Slip hooks of matching size may work.

I also found out that the sewn loops on the recovery strap that I bought years ago are too large and stiff to fit through the tow loops. It still may be usable with a shackle.

For the front a Y shaped tow bridle would be best, so the load can be put on both towloops. In the back, hooking to the 2" Valley hitch may be the strongest option, since that spreads the load to the frame rails as well as the towloop. Hopefully the towloop is strong enough to stand all the pull a 2 ton come-along can generate.

paulj

In partial answer to my question, I have found that a 7/8" diameter rod fits easily through the smaller front tow loops; 1" does not. So it looks like the pin of a 3/4" bow shackle will fit through these loops. The ends of the shackle itself probably cannot be rotated through them. Such a shackle could be used to attach the loop of a tow strap to the Element.

paulj

I just bought a 3/4" bow shackle from Central 4 Wheel Drive (http://www.central4wd.com/default.asp?id=2), Everett store, for about $15. Prices on the net range from between $10 and $30; but with heavy objects like this shipping can add up. It fits the towloops as I expected, but sure looks like overkill. Still, it's better have something else break.

I also bought 6' of 5/16" high test chain from the hardware store. This is heavy stuff. My intention is to use it to connect the come-along to the car, using a clevis grab hook and the shackle.

The come-along instructions call for hooking its cable end to the anchor point, and the body hook to the load. But attaching this hook directly to a towloop puts the winch halfway under the car. So that is why I've added the chain to my kit. I still need to get one or two lengths of low stretch webbing to complete my rig. To be practical I think I need a rig that can anchor on a tree 20 to 50' away, and allow me to move the Element 6' at a time.

Even without going the expensive electric winch route, assembling a practical self-recovery kit isn't as trivial as I initially thought.

As for storage, I found that the come-along fits neatly in the smaller, lefthand rear storage bin - on end with the handle lashed to the foldout hook. Hopefully all the rest will fit in a 8 gallon Rubbermaid storage box under my sleeping platform, along with the jack and tools.

paulj

:P Have you thought about using webbing and two carabiners?

BlueWater 2-Inch Climb-Spec Tubular Webbing = 30 kilonewtons strength
Omega Pacific ISO Locking Standard D Carabiner - Anodized = 31 KiloNewtons strength

To help you understand this a bit better.
Because a falling climber is a mass accelerating under the pull of gravity, carabiner and webbing strengths are measured in kiloNewtons (kNs), a measure of force (mass times acceleration). For conversion purposes, 1 kN is approximately equal to the force of 225 lbs.

:shock: Slug

Those numbers translate into the 6000 lb range, 3 tons.

I do have hank of 2" tubular climbing webbing, and actually have a pair of locking 'binners in the car as part of a load control net setup.

I am aiming for a 2T working load. That is about the weight of the Element, and the rating of the come-along (when using the pulley). Electric winches typically have ratings in the 6000-9000 lb range. I imagine the pull required to move a stuck Element can vary widely - at the lower end if the tires are just spinning and car just needs to be slid or rolled, much higher if there is mud suction or the tires have to rise up over something. 2T should be more than enough if I go just a bit too far into a snow drift or mud hole, but probably would not be enough if I slid off the road.

Nylon webbing typically has a lot of stretch. For some uses that elasticity is a plus, absorbing shock, and even magnifying a slow pull. 'Recovery straps' are sold for this purpose. At 2 to 3" wide they typically have a breaking strength in the 12,000 lb or more range.

But for use with a hand winch, I think I want webbing with low stretch. I don't want to expend the whole 6' of travel of the winch just in taking stretch out of the line. Even with low stretch chains you start with a lot of slack in the system. The HiLift jack company has added a 'tensioning chain' to their winching adapter, which is supposed to allow you to maintain tension in the system while you reset the jack for another 4' of travel (I can point you to their patent if interested). I suspect 'tree protector straps' and 'winch extension straps' are the lowest stretch straps out there. If material is noted, polyester has lower stretch than nylon.

Industrial rigging specifications make the distinction between working load and breaking strength. Chain, shackles and webbing are marked with a saft working load. With metal parts this tends to be 1/3 of the breaking strength. With rope it is more like 1/10th. The chain I bought has a working load of 3900 lb, 1/2" shackles typically have a 4000lb wl, and the 3/4" shackle is closer to 10,000lb. The towloops on the Element are 1/2" rod, though I can only guess at the strength of the welds.

I would like to use ropes, knots and carabiners, having accumulated both equipment and experience while playing around with boats and climbing. But I think there is too much of a difference in load size and mix between dynamic and static loads.

paulj

:o Hmmmm....

When we cleared our property, I had to move numerous logs in excess of 30' lengths and 3' diameter. I did not roll, I drug them will a come-a-long and webbing.carabiners and 4 rescue pulleys which made the moves easy. The distance I moved the 20 logs was over 100', which was made in 2 separate moves. I had to do it by myself.
Another means could be CABLE which can be purchsed at Lowe's, along with shackles to loop ends for attachments of carabiners.
Just an idea, always find the simple way and least weigh. Most of all if the way looks rough, think about how you're going to get out.
Good Luck....

:shock: Slug

I looked at cable. The largest I've seen at Lowes or Home Depot is 1/4". I don't recall the working load, but it must have been lower than my target. It may though be fine when using the come-along in 1T mode. Maasdam uses 3/16" cable for that. I've considered getting a 5/16" extension cable from Recovery Gear - http://www.recoverygear.com/winchcables.html
though I don't know how bulky or heavy that is. The 1/4" line might be worth another look.

I just found a site that gives the working load for 1/4" cable as 1400 lb, and for 5/16" as 1960. http://www.lacledechain.com/hardware/accessair.html

I haven't found many accounts or instructions on hand winching. There are some on the use of the hilift type jack, and some on Tirfor type of hand winch (http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/Recovery_Tirfor1.htm), but little using the less expensive come-along type. So I am working with bits and pieces of infromation from other sources. It will be easy to assemble a mix of parts that is either too bulky to take along except when I'm planning on getting stuck, or a kit that is missing critical pieces. Some day I'm going to have to go out to some forest service backroad, and actually try to use the assembled gear.

paulj

:P I got it!
9.5ti THERMOMETRIC SELF-RECOVERY WINCH
The new 9.5ti packs 9500 lbs of pulling capacity into a massive 12.5 lb aluminum die-cast body. The new shape not only looks great, but sheds the elements like no other winch on the market: seals at the key points give extreme-duty water resistance. A Gen II Bosch motor delivers just the right balance between torque and speed. Plus another Warn Industries first - operator feedback - the thermometric indicator gives the operator information about motor temperature during the winching operation.


9.5ti SPECS/PART NUMBERS
Part Number: PN 67550 (12V DC)
Rated Line Pull: 9500 lbs. (4310 kgs.) single-line
Motor: Gen II, Series WoundTM
Remote Control: Remote switch, 12' (3.7m) lead
Geartrain: 3-Stage Planetary
Gear Ratio: 156:1
Lubrication: Aeroshell #17
Clutch (freespooling): Sliding Ring Gear
Brake: Automatic Direct Drive Cone
Drum Diameter/Length: 2.5"/9.0" (6.4cm/23cm)
Weight: 89 lbs. (36.3kgs.)
Wire Rope: 125', 5/16" diameter (30m, 8mm diam.)
Fairlead: Roller
Recommended Battery: 650 CCA minimum for winching
Battery Leads: 2 gauge, 72" (1.83m)
Finish: Chromate with high-gloss powder coat
Nuts/Bolts: 39570
If you add one of those front grills and add the Warn Winch you could get out of almost any place, note the cable length.

:shock: Slug

Do they make 'trailers' that attach to the front of the car? At 89 lbs I'd need some added support up front :)

I'm a bit puzzled that winches like this use 5/16" line, but the working load of 5/16" 'aircraft' cable is so much less than the winch capacity. The winch line must have a much higher rating than the hardware store stuff. But since that kind of thing is well outside my budget I haven't paid much attention to the details. The synthetic rope for these winches looks interesting, but is even more expensive.

The 7700 lb rate Black Rat Tirfor style hand winch only weighs 60 lbs. I don't see, though, a size for the cable.
http://www.extremeoutback.com/index.cgi?exact_match=yes&product=Winches%20and%20Recovery&cart_id=9656861.6364.
I've read elsewhere that storing this cable can be a bit of a pain.

I did order a 'winch extension strap' from Extremeoutback. Their response was the fastest I've seen. I ordered Friday afternoon, and got a UPS shipping notification the same evening.

paulj

I just got this 'winch extension strap' from Extremeoutback. It looks better than most straps that I've seen in stores. It is made from a moderately stiff 2" wide orange webbing. With reinforcing the loops are stiff enough that I am glad I bought the larger shackle. It would be difficult, though not impossible, to pass such a webbing loop through a towloop on the Element.