I am at 6800 miles after 5 months. Most of my trips are around 25 miles. I was going to follow the normal maintenance and get my first oil change at 10K. Has ANYONE else waited for 10,000 miles? I see most of the people who have posted in the oil change threads did theirs at 5K.

I have my first at 5K, second change at 10K and this coming weekend will be my 3rd oil change at 20K.

By the way, I'm using synthetic Ams Oil.

[quote:da1bd053ec=" "]I am at 6800 miles after 5 months. Most of my trips are around 25 miles. I was going to follow the normal maintenance and get my first oil change at 10K. Has ANYONE else waited for 10,000 miles? I see most of the people who have posted in the oil change threads did theirs at 5K.[/quote:da1bd053ec]
I did. Make certain you check the oil level as I found it getting a wee bit low as I approached 10K.

No significant lost of oil, maybe 1/4 - 1/2 of a quart at the most.

I waited til 8K, the dipstick really started to look dirty at that point, I couldn't wait another 2K.

Now I'm running Mobil 1 and will change every 10-15K.

[quote:37f0e0b341=" "]I waited til 8K, the dipstick really started to look dirty at that point, I couldn't wait another 2K.

Now I'm running Mobil 1 and will change every 10-15K.[/quote:37f0e0b341]

Did you notice any mpg idfference with the use of Mobil 1?

i'll be waiting the full 10k on mine.

My forward plan is to change the oil and filter every December, about 10,000 miles.

0W20 Mobil 1 Synthetic
15400-PLM-A01 Honda Filter

I decided to go for it at 5000 miles for my first change, using standard Castrol 5-20W.

Interesting thing I am wondering about is my dealership STRESSED that you should NOT SWITCH to synthetic oil until 10, 000 miles. Which obviously isn't a problem if you don't do your first change until then.

Of course, regarding questionable credibility, I believe they recommended the first change at (and definitely NOT before) 3000 miles.

All sorts of opinions seem to abound on what should be simple science on this one.

I did- but my Element only made it to about 7k before I had to add a full quart of oil to bring it back into the "safe" level on the dipstick.

I waited as long as I could is because I wanted to keep the "special" break-in oil as long as possible. I kept the break in oil in my (owned since new) 1989 CRX Si until it's first required service at 7500 miles (actually, i left it in there until over 9,000 miles because I slipped on the maintenance) and the results were more than outstanding- I now have over 300,000 miles on that motor, the compression is still good across all cylinders, a recent dyno proved it still has more power than other 1.6 SOHC Honda motors, and I average nearly 40mpg per tank. I wouldn't be surprised if the motor gets over 400,000 without a rebuild.

I'm not saying that keeping the break-in oil is the sole reason for the motor's longevity, because after the first service, I did follow all manufacturer's recommended service, as well as changed the oil the best I could every 3,000 miles.

To get back on the Element, since the oil level was so low, I complained to Service when I brought it in for the 10k service. They recommended that they do an "oil consumption test". We will wait and see if the oil that's in their will still be in the "safe" level when I get my oil change at 15,000 miles. I am now at 14,400 miles, so I can post the results when I find out.

[quote:3adc584b17=" "]Interesting thing I am wondering about is my dealership STRESSED that you should NOT SWITCH to synthetic oil until 10, 000 miles. Which obviously isn't a problem if you don't do your first change until then.

Of course, regarding questionable credibility, I believe they recommended the first change at (and definitely NOT before) 3000 miles.

All sorts of opinions seem to abound on what should be simple science on this one.[/quote:3adc584b17]

There is no exact science on this one, but the common theories are that dyno juice is much better at breaking in an engine than synthetic. Each person that says that uses different arguments all of which I can't remember. Some say that the non-synthetic oil lubricates the seals better, allows the containmenants from manufacturing run more smoothly to the filter, etc. Some, so much believe in that theory that even when the car comes from the factory as in a Mitsubishi Evolution with synthetic oil, folks are draining and changing out to non-synthetic motor oil for the break in period and switching back to Mobil 1 that originally came within the car at the first recommended oil change.

If Honda has such belief in the oil that they put into the Element that they don't recommend the first oil change until 10K miles, then I wouldn't worry about it and pay the extra money for something that you can't prove will do better and perhaps worse.

I'm a firm believer in synthetic oil as being superior to dyno-juice, but I don't see the worth in an engine such as the one in the Element that is not running the majority of it's life within an inch of it's maximum performance level.

I think waiting until 10K miles or the first year to switch over to synthetic oil will be more than adequate. Honda can't come back and complain on a warranty claim that you did something wrong, you'll know that your engine is fully broken in and it's more than likely if something was wrong it would of showed up by then.

Obviously this is just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. I know we all want to do what's best for our vehicles, but also think what makes practical overall sense and not just bowing down to a marketers dream of you spending more money every 3K miles.

[quote:e7cfde8de9=" "]No significant lost of oil, maybe 1/4 - 1/2 of a quart at the most.[/quote:e7cfde8de9]

Checked mine this morning. More than a quart low at under 5000 miles. The color was very nice, though. Added a quart. I will wait 'til 9-10,000 miles. Unless I go ahead and get one of my freebies when I get my wiper washer pump fixed...

Bill

i went 9k before my first oil change.

[quote:c5c8b13a69=" "][quote:c5c8b13a69=" "]I waited til 8K, the dipstick really started to look dirty at that point, I couldn't wait another 2K.

Now I'm running Mobil 1 and will change every 10-15K.[/quote:c5c8b13a69]

Did you notice any mpg idfference with the use of Mobil 1?[/quote:c5c8b13a69]

Yes, but it wasn't because of the Mobil 1, it was more that the old oil was getting dark and thick. Any oil I put in after that would have given me better gas mileage.

I'll probably wait until 10K.

I'm thinking 1st change at 5K and run Mobil1 0W-20

5 months in, and my M1 0W20 is FINALLY getting dark enough to see on the dipstick :D

10K miles and no problems. I dont see any reason to not follow the manual.

did u wait 10,000 miles for the FIRST oil change?

even though dealers won't say you have to good idea is to change the oil the FIRST time at around 500 miles due to metal fragments from motor setting into its wear pattern.

[quote:ac7c0bd5a5=" "]even though dealers won't say you have to good idea is to change the oil the FIRST time at around 500 miles due to metal fragments from motor setting into its wear pattern.[/quote:ac7c0bd5a5]
that's not really true anymore...and besides, there is a magnet on the bottom of the oil pan.

At first I thought A4...... had a typo and meant 5,000 rather than 500, but helement is right. DO NOT change the oil until 5,000 miles as it is a special breakin oil.

I think cars made in the 1930's probably needed their oil changed at 500 and every 500 after that, but that was last century and this is now. And there's also this gadget called an "oil filter" too that deals with pesky pebbles and twigs that might be floating around.

bigfoot and helement2003 are right! the owners manual explicitly says not to change the oil early 1st time because there is special break-in oil placed in the engine at the factory...people should really pay a little more attention to the manual before they tell other people what they should do (especially since in this case it is really incorrect advice).

did not mean to be missguiding. I do not have my E yet and consiquently no owners manual. If the owner is posting a question that was so simple to answer why two pages of beating around the bush, doesn't seem helpful either. As to the 500 miles this was taught to me by my brother who is was an ASE certified mechanic in engine performance. Its nice that they have special break in oil, but how long has that been the case. For the commentor on the oil filter, filters do not stop ALL the particulates in your oil, thats why magnets have become so popular! Even Magnetic oil filters. And for that reason was my comment, not based on the knowledge of 'break in oil', at 500 were the engine innitially seats itself and the most metal particulates are produced within that milage.
P.s. never hurts to change your oil as often as every day, just not worth it.

There are a lot of things that over the years have changed when it comes to
maintaining cars. Unfortunately some of this stuff has become so ingrained
that it is hard to change peoples' thinking. Honda has been making some of
the most dependable vehicles sold for the past 20 years(early 80's still a little
rough), so if they say that you don't need to change the oil until 10K then I'll
take them at their word. These aren't toasters that wear out in short order and
you buy a new one on a whim. I don't think Honda is tricking you into doing
something that will shorten the life of your car which will lock you into expensive
repairs or buying new vehicles. With regards to metal particles being present
during the first 500 miles, I'd be willing to bet that was someting encountered
in much older engines and it has hung on despite better designs. The
tolerances in the new motors are much tighter, metallurgy is better and oil is much improved.
Here are few more marvels we didn't have in consumer vehicles until recently that work quite well:

100,000 mile spark plugs
run flat tires
distributorless ignition (no more points!! yay!)
100,000 mile tune-up engines

Let go of the old days, 3 mos. and 3,000 miles is a bygone era!

i could not agree with lowanhair more. my dealership tried to sell me on 3k mile oil changes...but, come on, the more often i come in the more often they can try to scare me into paying for something i neither need nor want. i'll take the word of the engineers who designed and tested this engine.

[quote:2d47c9845a=" "]i could not agree with lowanhair more. my dealership tried to sell me on 3k mile oil changes...but, come on, the more often i come in the more often they can try to scare me into paying for something i neither need nor want. i'll take the word of the engineers who designed and tested this engine.[/quote:2d47c9845a]

Ditto. I just turned over 21K miles. I had my oil and filter changed at 10K and 20K. Just before I took it in this last time, when I checked the oil, it was still above ADD and still looked clean and clear on the diptstick. Didn't look a bit like my cars from the 60's and 70's, when the oil would look like black ink after 2,000 miles.

Is this true?
I just picked up my new 2005 rallaye red e on friday and was amazed at this when looking at the maintnance schedule!
The owners manual also says not to change the oil until the first scheduled service.
I just find it hard to believe.
Any thought or additional info.
I absolutely love my new e!!!! I'm hooked!

I've got 4750 mi. on my E same color in fact. and I'm just itching to get that first oil change. I just feel weird without it. I assume you know about the factory "break-in" oil. Anyways I checked the Oil level this weekend and it was at the low tick mark. I suppose you could classify me under semi-severe driver and I could get an oil change at 5,000 but I opted to just add half-a-quart of Honda 5W-20 and maybe wait for 7,000-10,000. the guy at the service dealer ship said it was compatable with the factory oil. I guess, I will definitely inform you if that is not the case.

P.S. has anyone else used this option for low oil?

P.P.S. Enjoy that Element, I'm still finding new uses for it regularly.

Funny, my first oil change was free... my dealership recommended 6,000 but I took it in at 5650 or so. Then they slapped a sticker on the window to remind me to have it changed at 9450... WTF??

Anyhow, once the maintenance light came on I reset it myself engine maint. reset question (http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11007&highlight=reset+maint) (thanks valkokir!! ) and changed the oil again myself at 10,000. I'm going to change it every 6,000 miles or so for the future, but I think I could let it go 10,000 if I install a good quality filter Comprehensive Oil Filter Survey (http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12206&highlight=oil+filter) (thanks MikeQBF!).

Don't we have helpful members at EOC?? :)

LEGO

I just couldn't stand going 10,000 between oil changes. I've decided to do mine ever 5K.

The dealer did the same thing to me (slapped a sticker on the windshield for 3,000 miles later).

:roll:

I am not completely sure of all the reasons but my understanding is that there is a special oil that is put in at the time of manufacture. It is something that they want in there for a longer time as it will absorb into the metal and create a protective coating. Thus, it is recommended to not remove this oil for 10,000 miles. 5,000 miles if your car falls into one of several conditions that qualifies as Extreme Conditions. I just took my Element in at 10,047 for my first oil change. I had actually planned to take it in sooner but the 5,000 mile time fell last fall when I was getting busy and couldn't get away to have it done. The dealer was recommending 5,000 and HONDA recommending 10,000 and reading the definition of Extreme conditions they didn't completely apply to me. So, hitting 5,000 miles I figured no real rush. I would compromise and find an opportune time to have it done. Hopefully it would be a compromise, say around 8,000 miles or so. Then, there was Thanksgiving and Christmas and all and I wasn't able to find the time. I ended up getting a phone call from a marketing firm hired by the dealership. Reminding me that their estimate was that I had 10,000 miles on the car. By coincidence, I was at about 9,900 at that time. I then called and got an appointment. When I made the appointment, my service advisor told me that they follow the Extreme schedule here in Chicago. I guess since winters can be extreme and running cold can add wear. Also, traffic can be heavy where the engine runs more without a lot of miles on the car or where people might drive more shorter distances without letting the car warm up sufficiently. All more extreme conditions than average I guess. I wasn't worried though as my habits are more longer distance trips, This winter has been fairly mild and those days when it has been extreme, I just stayed home. Further, I live in the suburbs where I don't get stuck in heavy traffic that often. So, I went ahead and went the distance.

All I know, I haven't had any ill effects from waiting the full 10,000 miles. I kept getting average MPGs in the low 20s all along. I did notice a little drop over the last few thousand miles. Maybe a couple miles per gallon on average. Was getting more 19s and 20s on the highway instead of 21s and 22s. I don't know that that is related but figure it could be. Especially since some have said that you would notice some improvement in mileage after your first oil change. So, I hope it will improve. I just filled the first time a couple days ago, since having the oil changed. I still have a little over half a tank. Will see how it goes after I refill again.

My first oil change was also FREE. I didn't know that when I bought the car and they never said anything about it in literature that they sent me. A little before 5,000 miles I got a letter from my dealer. I bought the car in late May and got that letter in about September. So, they must figure about 1,000 miles per month, I would guess. On that letter was a coupon for a discount on 5,000 mile service, (OIL Change). Then about December or January, I got a letter about 10,000 mile service with a 10% discount on 10,000 mile service. Looking at the bill, that included, Tire Rotation, Brake Service, Oil Change, Replenish Fluids and check tire pressures.

When writing up the invoice, the service advisor mentioned the free oil change and deducted that from the cost for the 10,000 mile service. Then they applied the 10% from my coupon and only charged me a little over $100 with tax for the service. Looking over my invoice, it says that the original estimate is $145. They list -$12 for the 10% coupon so that must mean that the oil change would have been $25 to leave the 10,000 mile service at $120. That is what the 10,000 must have been for 10% to be $12. Then, taking the $12 off it comes to $108 which is what they charged me.

I don't know if that is a decent price or not. Considering past experiences with a Chevy, it certainly wasn't enough to make me take too much notice. I know, had I taken it to Jiffy Lube, it would have cost about $40 and then, I wouldn't have had the tire rotation or brake inspection and service or anything else that they might have done. IN and OUT it only took about 40 minutes.

Buyer beware...............( Having worked for a dealer....it's the last place I would go)

Buyer beware...............( Having worked for a dealer....it's the last place I would go)

What do you mean by that? Can you provide us some details?

I read my 05 manual also & it was very clear not to change the oil until 10K because of the special oil they put in it during the break in period. I have no plans on changing before that.

My first oil change was also FREE. I didn't know that when I bought the car and they never said anything about it in literature that they sent me. A little before 5,000 miles I got a letter from my dealer. I bought the car in late May and got that letter in about September. So, they must figure about 1,000 miles per month, I would guess. On that letter was a coupon for a discount on 5,000 mile service, (OIL Change). Then about December or January, I got a letter about 10,000 mile service with a 10% discount on 10,000 mile service. Looking at the bill, that included, Tire Rotation, Brake Service, Oil Change, Replenish Fluids and check tire pressures.

When writing up the invoice, the service advisor mentioned the free oil change and deducted that from the cost for the 10,000 mile service. Then they applied the 10% from my coupon and only charged me a little over $100 with tax for the service. Looking over my invoice, it says that the original estimate is $145. They list -$12 for the 10% coupon so that must mean that the oil change would have been $25 to leave the 10,000 mile service at $120. That is what the 10,000 must have been for 10% to be $12. Then, taking the $12 off it comes to $108 which is what they charged me.

:confused: :-o

I don't know if that is a decent price or not. Considering past experiences with a Chevy, it certainly wasn't enough to make me take too much notice. I know, had I taken it to Jiffy Lube, it would have cost about $40 and then, I wouldn't have had the tire rotation or brake inspection and service or anything else that they might have done. IN and OUT it only took about 40 minutes.

10,000 mile service!?
:shock:
I hate to be the one to tell you, but you got screwed.
You just got a $108 dollar "free" oil change and tire rotation.

I got my first oil change and tire rotation free.
Difference is, it didn't cost me anything.
Of course they screwed it up so bad the service manager tried to "make it up" by giving me another "free" oil change.
Since my time isn't free, I'll be changing my own oil from now on, but that's a different story.

There is nothing to check on the brakes at 10,000 miles.
They may have filled up your windhshield wiper fluid and checked your tire pressure.
They are supposed to do both of these anyway on a regular oil change.

So my question would be; what exactly did you get that was different than your regular "free" first oil change for your $108 dollars?

I'd have somebody's ass down at that dealer if I was you.
:x

I guess, based on what you are saying, it seemed that the oil change wasn't free in the end. The question then becomes, what do most dealers charge for the 10,000 mile service? They quoted me $145 for that and knocked over $30 off of by saying that the oil change portion was free. Then they deducted another 10% for my coupon. After taxes that made the service $108 total. So, it would appear that they did the oil change for free. So, the question would be, would the other services, like rotation of the tires and an inspection and adjustment of the brakes be worth $108?

You might say that they took me here by doing a brake service prematurely. Looking at Owner Link, in fact, that isn't recommended at that point. However, I may not actually feel taken on that as it might work in my favor. At least, if they actually did any adjustment, service or inspection of the brakes and assuming they weren't saying that they did something that they didn't do. In my situation, I am hearing impared to an extent where I can't hear the high pitch squeeking that brakes are supposed to make when they wear down. The metal studs in the pads that when worn rub against the rotors making the noise. So, in the past, I have had a lot of brake trouble because, by the time I notice noises, they are so severe that rotors need to be replaced rather than turned on a lathe, calipers might have been shot and so on. So, having this done more frequently or even prematurely, might be of long term benefit for me.

It would be great to be able to rotate my own tires or change my own oil and save that kind of money. However, at the time that this was required, it was less than 20 degrees out and there is salt all over the driveway. So, asside from working outside for a few hours in the bitter cold, my clothes would get trashed from the dirt and salt on the driveway. Some might have jacks, stands, tools and other equipment to make changing their oil and rotating their tires an easy hour or two. However, I only have what came with the car. To do this all by myself would not be such a piece of cake. So, having someone putting the car on a lift, moving the tires around and giving a thourough look at the systems, all in about 30 minutes, is of some value to me. At the rate that I have been driving, That would put me at November or December for the next such service. So, if it costs me about $100 a year to make sure I don't have other problems, so I can get better wear out of tires and brakes etc. It may all be worth that in the long run.

Just for curiosity, You sound like you have decent experience with Honda wear.... When do you think brake inspections or service is due? I looked out to as much as 30,000 miles on the Owner Link Maintenance schedule and they only mention oil changes and tire rotations to that point. Except at 30,000 they do add Air Cleaner Element.

Did you get a 2004? Just because you bought it year end doesn't mean it sat for very long. It could have been built toward the end of the production year. Also, I don't know if dealers go out and run cars routinely, while they are on the lot. Then, as I noticed in the several weeks between a couple visits I made to my dealer before buying my car, cars were moved around from time to time. Either to make room for others, to get others out or, just to reorganize their inventory to accomodate new arrivals. When I test drove my car, before buying, they had to move 6 cars to get to it. So, while they don't get a lot of miles, they are run and moved around from time to time.

As for the age of your car, check the inside of the drivers door. I think it is on the rear door edge, there is a sticker with some info on it. There should be a manufacture date. It will be Mo/Yr. Mine said 04/04 and I bought it in the end of May. It had 17 miles on it, including what I put on for the test drive. Also considering trucking and all... My understanding is that it really wasn't on the lot for more than about 3 weeks. My brother went in a couple weeks before I did, and inquired on my behalf. They said, at that time, that they had the exact car on the lot and it JUST came off the truck. My car was covered in white paper and the interior still wrapped in plastic when I test drove it.

i changed mine at 5000 miles...i never read anything about waiting 10,000 before the first oil change...but i don't think it would hurt anything..i just change it every 5000..i've never had any problems with my oil level being low.....but i did notice at 5000 miles the factory oil was still clear instead of brownish like it is now with regular oil....i don't understand why they don't just put that factory oil in at every oil change...i guess the motor would last forever or something and no one would ever buy a new car :lol:

The question then becomes, what do most dealers charge for the 10,000 mile service?

There are a few Honda and Acura techs on here that'll correct me if I'm wrong; but, as far as I know, there is no such thing on a Honda.
The whole point of a "10,000 miles service" or "30,000 miles service" is to perform the routine maintenance recommended by the manufacturer at that particular mileage.
Based on this premise, if there is no recommended "service" listed in the manual at 10,000 miles other than oil and filter, there is no legitimate "10,000 mile service" from a Honda dealer on that car other than an oil change and tire rotation.

You might say that they took me here by doing a brake service prematurely. Looking at Owner Link, in fact, that isn't recommended at that point. However, I may not actually feel taken on that as it might work in my favor. At least, if they actually did any adjustment, service or inspection of the brakes and assuming they weren't saying that they did something that they didn't do.

There is literally nothing that needs to be done to the entire brake system at 10,000 miles unless something is broken.
Any tech worth half his weight in turds should take a quick gander for any obvious problems with the brake pads/rotors while rotating the tires. (FOR FREE)
It is not a brake "service" to look at the brake system.
They would have to at least flush the system and refill with fresh fluid, which would be completely unecessary at 10,000 miles.
As a matter of fact, I seriously doubt anyone could tell if it was the original fluid or a refill in the brake cylinder because is so new.
Which, incidentally, could explain why they pull this.



Just for curiosity, You sound like you have decent experience with Honda wear.... When do you think brake inspections or service is due?

Depends on what you mean by service.
I would take a look at the pads/rotors/lines everytime the tires are rotated.
You definitely have some legitimate reasons to stay on top of routine maintenance and a much better excuse than I for not always doing it yourself. (Weather isn't really an excuse around here. :-D )
I would just instruct whoever is doing your tire rotation to check (if you trust them) or tell them you want to see wach brake while they have the tire off.

As far as the rest of the system, I'm not sure what the going "official" time frame is for flushing and refilling the brake fluid, but it's a heck of a lot longer than 10,000 miles.
I went over 100,000 on my old Ford and never had a problem. It's got just under 300,000 miles on it now. Brakes are still fine. All I've done is replace the pads and flush it once.

I looked out to as much as 30,000 miles on the Owner Link Maintenance schedule and they only mention oil changes and tire rotations to that point. Except at 30,000 they do add Air Cleaner Element.

That's exactly why it ticks me off that dealers pull this on people who don't know any better.
An oil change and tire rotation is cheap, if not "free" the first time on a new car.
The techs are supposed to check for any abnormal wear or mechanical issues while working on the car/rotating the tires.
That's just part of the oil change.
Charging $108 dollars for a "brake service" at 10,000 miles is rediculous.
I guarantee you, they did nothing to your brake system, except maybe make sure the fluid wasn't low andlook at the pads and go, "Yep....there they are."
Both things that should be done during any oil change.

My dealer says 3750 for the first oil change. Sounds pretty hasty to me.
I'm thinking of waiting till 5000 also.

just check your oil several times before your first change. depending on how your engine was broken in and in what climate your in the porous engine internals can eat a lot of the break-in oil. i changed mine at 5k and will do it every 5k from then on.


-tom :)

Got mine changed at 6,250. I'll have it changed again I think when I get my tires rotated at 10,000. As for a "brake service" for them to just look at my brakes and tell me they're ok...you won't find me paying for anything like that anytime soon!

for them to just look at my brakes and tell me they're ok...you won't find me paying for anything like that anytime soon!

besides honda brakes are some of the easiest brakes to repad yourself.


-tom :)

My dealer says 3750 for the first oil change. Sounds pretty hasty to me.
I'm thinking of waiting till 5000 also.


Your dealer is flat wrong. Look in the manual or check out Owner Link at Hondacars.com At Owner Link, set up an account for your HONDA, if you haven't done so. There you can look up the maintenance schedule and track work that you have had done and what is needed. When you go in for service, go online and input the information into the database to keep track of it.

HONDA, DEMANDS that you wait 5000 to 10,000 miles before your first oil change, depending on if you fall into an extreme driving catagory or not. I think they discribe Extreme in the manual if you look. Some of the things that come to mind might be, A lot of interstate driving at High Speed, Off roading, a lot of stop and go traffic, long periods of standing with the engine running, rough terrain with a lot of hills, extreme temperatures, Low miles over prolonged amounts of time, A lot of short distance trips and so on. I live in Chicago where they assume me to be in Extreme conditions. My dealer sent me the first reminder based on 5000 miles. They Probably assume extreme based on assumptions of, a lot of short trips, slow traffic with a lot of stops and goes(stoplights and traffic congestion), engine running with little mileage, (Traffic jams) etc. like under city driving conditions. However, being in the suburbs where I actually drive longer distances at consistant speeds of around 40 to 45 mph, an average mix of suburban highway(40-45mph) and Interstate,(60-65mph), on fairly mild terrain, I didn't think I really fell into that situation. So, I got my first oil change at 10,000 and haven't had any issues of concern.

Consider your driving conditions in relation to the above, or check the manual for the exact definition of Extreme Conditions. Then decide whether you need to go 5000 or 10,000. Do check your oil levels every now and then when you stop for gas. There is an importance to keeping the first fill of oil in for a certain time. It is a "Starter Oil" or "Break In Oil" which is formulated to condition engine parts and needs to be kept in for a certain amount of time or miles. 6 months and minimum of 5,000 miles rings a bell with me but check to make sure. Thus the "DEMAND" by HONDA to keep it in for at least 5000 miles. After your first oil change, say 10,000 miles, then you should have it changed every 5000 miles after that.

Thanks, WMAS!
I do about 50% parkway / highway, 50% in stop and go traffic. I have just over 3750 miles on my E. now.
What the hell is my dealer trying to pull? I can safely wait 'till 10,000 for my first change?? ( BTW- it's a free one because they weren't able to undercoat my car on time because the machine was "in repair"...)
I am seriously doubting my dealer lately, who claims to be "#1 in service satisfaction..."
:roll:

Thanks, WMAS!
I do about 50% parkway / highway, 50% in stop and go traffic. I have just over 3750 miles on my E. now.
What the hell is my dealer trying to pull? I can safely wait 'till 10,000 for my first change?? ( BTW- it's a free one because they weren't able to undercoat my car on time because the machine was "in repair"...)
I am seriously doubting my dealer lately, who claims to be "#1 in service satisfaction..."
:roll:

You bought the undercoat?? Make sure your dealer also adjusts your Johnson rod while they're at it - sure it's expensive, but well worth the investment! :)

You bought the undercoat?? Make sure your dealer also adjusts your Johnson rod while they're at it - sure it's expensive, but well worth the investment! :)
The dealer can afford to have a real "PRO" adjust his Johnson rod. Seriously Meuzick, get out of the undercoating nonsense if you can.

Yeah, I heard it was alot of B.S., but it came with the deal so I figured, why not? It was no cost to me. I took up their time for free.

Don't know if undercoating really does any harm, or if it really provides much benefit.

Remember though, dealerships are in business to pay all their expenses, pay their employees, sell cars and MAKE PROFIT. Thus, I doubt you really got it for free. Not that there is anything wrong with that, in itself. So long as the cost is fair for the benefit provided. If it gives you some piece of mind, doesn't harm the car and you are comfortable with what you paid than it is great. However, I am sure the cost for the undercoating came from somewhere. Either from you paying a few hundred more than you could have for the car, or from less on your trade or maybe a point or two on your loan, or maybe an extra payment or two tacked onto the end of your loan. Whatever, it certainly came from somewhere.

As for the oil change thing, every car I have ever owned, had a 3000 mile oil change schedule. Could be that your dealership just routinely does that not concidering that the maintenence schedule on YOUR car says to wait at least 5000 miles. They make more money and you don't get the full benefit of the special oil that is in the car whan you got it. Whether that does any harm to your car, I don't know. Or, is it just a way for them to make an extra hundred bucks off of you. This is where it pays to read boards like this and be an educated buyer and owner. That way, like in my case, when the dealer sends his automatic notice at 5000 miles I could make the educated decision to compromise at 7000 or go full term to the 10,000, based on my situation.

Remember one thing. Some of these dealers are not sending you a notice based on 5000 or 10,000 miles and that you own an element. They are sending 3000 mile notices to ALL their customers as a routine. Those notices are sent by a computer that may not kniow, or care, that your car has a 5000 to 10,000 oil change schedule compared to the average car with only 3000. So, just beware. Also, because they tell you that your oil change is free, that doesn't mean it is. In my case, my first change was free. Also, they sent me a 10% coupon for my 10,000 mile service.

The 10,000 mile service included an oil change and tire rotation along with the ordinary other services that would go along with those two basic programs. Topping off of fluids, checking of filters, replacing the oil filter, checking of the brakes... From my experience, I have never gotten a tire rotation included in a $40 oil change. So, I figure fair would be about $100, say $40 to $50 and another 40 to 50 for the tire rotation. That would mean that I should have gotten the service for about $45 with the oil change gratis and the rotation 10% off. Instead, I paid $108. In the end, I paid, probably, what I would have paid if I had gone to NTB (national tire and battery) or Jiffy Lube or somewhere. But, my dealer said FREE OIL CHANGE and 10% off. This is how he got me. Charging $145 for the 10,000 mile service then removing about $30 for the oil change. Then deducting the 10% and adding back 7.5% in taxes. So, in the end, while it looked OK on paper, it was NOT free when I figure what it would have costed otherwise and what I actually paid. Further, on the invoice, they printed the, "checklist" of things that they did. Making it look like they really did a lot for the $100. In the end, most of the things listed were things done in conjunction with the two primary services. Every Oil change, for example, should include, in it's cost, checking of filters and fluids. Every tire rotation, since the tires are removed, should include, in it's price, an inspection of the brakes, pads, rotors... So, itemizing all this makes it look like more than it really was. I would have preferred that they were more honest and just charged me fair prices for the work, ($100) rather than making me think that I was getting something for free to hook me in and then end up playing these games. Got to say though, $108 at HONDA was a bargain compared to the Chevy dealer I used to take my Lumina to when it was new. They would get me in for a $29 oil change or something then find a few things that needed to be done and I wouldn't get out of there for less than $350. As the car got older, every time I went in for a recall or something I would end up getting out for $800 with all the stuff that they found needed service.

But hey, now I have learned to watch my dealer a little closer. I think I got a great deal on the car and all the accessories. I was very happy with the buying experience and felt no pressure at all. I consider my dealer to be very good and fair and note that they are a consistant winner of the HONDA President's Award(???) is that what it is. But, in the end, with smoke and mirrors in the service department, or the classic shell game, I guess, while I don't think there prices were horribly bad, they were rigged with tall the coupons to make you think you are getting a great deal when, in reality, you might be paying a little more than going somewhere else. But, with what people say about other places like Jiffy Lube, and past experiences I have had with independant mechanics, absent having one that I have an established trusted relationship with, It is worth paying a little more for the quality that my dealership offers. The work they did was clean and thourough, to my knowlege. All my accessories that they installed have been holding up and operating flawlessly. I have no reason to complain.

A favorite 'revenue enhancer' is to pull the wire off the air conditioner clutch when cars are in for ANY kind of service during winter.

Then, on the first hot day, the phones start ringing at the service department!

If the customer happens to notice it right away, the 'mechanic must have accidentally knocked it loose' (while he was replacing the brake light...?)

I did the first oil and filter change yesterday. I actually waited until the Orange Krate had nearly 2,000 miles on it, double the miles I normally put on a new car. The next change will be at 5K and repeated every 5k thereafter. If you change every 5k miles then it's easy remember when it's time to change again but with the wimpy size oil filter that comes with the E, I could easily be convinced to go to 3k intervals.

I'm lucky to have an aircraft hangar to work in and have accumulated a fair set of tools to work with so things get taken care of when needed. Based on what I've learned over the years working on my planes, regular oil changes are cheap insurance with respect to engine longevity. The "special breakin" oil used in aviation is nothing more than straight mineral oil with no detergents. If you were to go long term with this oil, your engine would sludge up and wear out 3 times faster than if you used detergent oil. Engines are broken in within 50 hours of use and you will accumulate that in about 1,000 to 1,500 miles driving on your car.

My choice of oil is Mobil 1 fully synthetic 5-20 weight and a WIX filter because the good Honda ones are gone. My thanks goes out to those who cut filters and shared the results.

my mechanic freaked when i brought the e in yesterday for its first oil change at around 6400k :shock:
he said the factory was rubbish and not to go over 3000k.
i will probably give in to peer pressure here and go around 5000k.

So here we have a big car company (Honda) spending millions$$$$ on research and development, testing and testing, manufacturing hundreds of thousands of cars every year, and they print their oil change, etc. recommendations in the Owner's manual. They expect the cars to last a long time and have satisfied owners, and end up with a reputation for building high quality cars. If that's the case, why are so many owners choosing to not accept those recommendations, and justify their choices based on a what "some guy told me" type of philosophy? If you really think about it, won't 3K, or 5K, or 7.5K, or 10K mile oil changes all yield the same long term results as far as engine wear, considering that all of our cars are all used just for driving every day. They're not running at redline hour after hour, or pulling stumps non-stop for 8hrs. a day, every day of the week. Even 4 hours of commuting a day at 65MPH - 75MPH will still yield many years of happy ownership, without the engine detonating. People who talk about what they did with their cars 20 - 30 years ago are talking about comparing apples and oranges here. Following Honda's recommendations won't fail you; being a bit more fastidious won't hurt...but it's probably $$overkill to continuously do 3K mile oil changes. There have been a lot of postings to this list about dealers "recommending" oil changes, coolant changes, brake adjustments, etc. that are WAY out of line with Honda's recommendations - and most everybody quickly jumps on and cries "RIPOFF"...and they're right. So, just stick with the owner's manual. Can't hurt.

Chin,

You are absolutely correct about the part where you point out that cars from 20-30 years are an apple v oranges comparison with today's automobiles. Ditto for oils and other automotive fluids. But I would like to point out that ALL car makers are subject to market pressure. The main reason Honda and everbody else is saying that there is no need for major service until 110k miles is because the competition is saying the same thing. It doesn't hurt that the California legistature came to the conclusion that a car should go 100k without a major service several years ago. Honda used to recommend a timing belt change at 60-75k (I just don't remember) until the lawmakers came up with their idea. Timing belts haven't gotten that much better, they're still supplied by the lowest bid price vendor. This is just one example.

It used to be that owner's manuals were really conservative. Now they reflect opinions not emminating from the engineering department. As a matter of fact, they have become marketing tools for the sales department and a covertheass diatribe for the legal department. 3k mile oil changes? That's most likely overkill but 5k is a safe number.

Just my 2 cents.

Chin,

Honda used to recommend a timing belt change at 60-75k (I just don't remember) until the lawmakers came up with their idea. Timing belts haven't gotten that much better, they're still supplied by the lowest bid price vendor. This is just one example.

Maybe that's why the E has a timing chain instead of a timing belt? Are they maybe making the cars better?

Point taken!

Well then, how do we as, hopefully, somewhat knowledgable owners, proceed to maintain our E's with longevity, costs, problem prevention, dealing with honest repair shops/dealers? The answer to this is undoubtedly just what all the EOC people are doing: writing to this list with their questions, experiences, and suggestions. Even with, or because of , all the different approaches and philosophies, there just cannot be a better resource for owners to "git r done". This site is great!!!!

This is shamelessly snitched from a oil research chemical engineer(Ed Haskett-U of Nevada) writing in the BMW Roundel magazine:

synthetics; AMSOIL, Mobil 1, and other pure synthetics offer the only truly significant differences, due to their superior high temperature oxidation resistance, high film strength, very low tendency to form deposits, stable viscosity base, and low temperature flow characteristics. Synthetics are superior lubricants compared to traditional petroleum oils. You will have to decide if their high cost is justifed in your application.

highway speeds, and in a dust free environment. Stop and go, city driving, trips of less than 10 miles, or extreme heat or cold puts the oil change interval into the severe service category, which is 3000 miles for most vehicles. Synthetics can be run two to three times the mileage of petroleum oils with no problems. They do not react to combustion and combustion by products to the extent that the dead dinosaur juice does. The longer drain intervals possible help take the bite out of the higher cost of the synthetics. If your car or bike is still under warranty you will have to stick to the recommended drain intervals. These are set for petroleum oils and the manufacturers make no official allowance for the use of synthetics.

Sorry it's so long, but makes good sense

Interesting posts, I can never see going 10,000 miles prior to the first oil change. It doesn't make sense in my case, I drive my E in a very harsh manner, I rarely let it warm up, get on a highway pretty close to my house a majority of the time and fly up to 65 or 80 miles an hour. Otherwise I'm in stop and go traffic up and down hills. I changed the original oil at 990 miles and switched to synthetic, changed that at 5,000 and every 5,000 after as the manual states for my type of driving. I've hit 10,000 miles, the brakes are like new in the back, front pads do have some wear, put new tires on the E and everything it gooooddd. I tend to think the 10,000 mile checkup is just that, a checkup, any dealer charging you more than an oil change is one you should question. :roll:

ok i am at 3300 km and am at about the 3-4 month period and my dealer said come in at 5 months, but by how much i drive i am going to be way under recommened 5000. are you guys saying screw the months and just worry about the km's
o k with that being said will there be any effect on my warranty like voiding it, like maybe to them seeing it as a sighn of neglect, when i had my 02 s-10 thats how they put it to me, wait too long, and risk my warranty.

thanks

By the month guidelines, if you are a severe driver, it is every 6 months and if you are a normal driver it is every year. That is what it says in the manual anyways.

I believe 10,000 miles is just nuts. I've built a lot of engines including BMW racing engines and street engines and you always change oil at a 1000 miles or after the first race. When you assemble an engine there is always machining burrs and metal chips etc. that end up in there. No matter how clean you think you have it that stuff still makes it in there. You always have initial wearing of parts that adds more stuff to the mix. Now your filter is going to get all the big hunks, but once that filter fills up it will start bypassing, especially when cold, sending more junk into your engine. My schedule is always first change at 1000 miles. Replace with Castrol GTX and go to 5000. Change to a high quality synthetic like Amsoil, Redline,Mobil 1, Castrol Syntec. Those are in order of choice. If your keeping the stock filter then change at 5000 mile intervals. If you put in a duel remote filter then you could just change filters at 5000 and top it off and go 5000 more before changing. Well I'm sure I've stirred the hornets nest now!

ol fugly I totally understand what you are saying, i dont quite build engins but have spent enought time around and working on to agree, that is why this post has got me so confused, and the guys at work are just a confused as I.

I just called and talked to a Honda mechanic. He said they do the first change any time after 3000 miles and recommend every 3000 to 3700 after that. He also says there is no brake in period other than not having hard take offs for the first 600 miles. He does say that the Honda oil is the cleanest that he has seen. And that while 5000 on it is ok, changing more often can only increase engine life. He is paid by the hour and has plenty to do so he doesn’t need to change oil too soon to make a living. He also knows that I don't use the dealer for normal service.

Well, to add to the confusion and chaos, I just had my first oil change at the 8700 mark. I was going to wait until an even 10k but couldn't take the flashing maint. light anymore and the dealer had an open slot. Using my own oil and filter, it cost me $33.65 with the rotation. I put in mobil1 oil and a napa gold filter as no A01 are to be found in these parts. The dealer being a typical midwest mechanic mindset put a sticker in the window indicating my next change in 3750mi, not very likely though, I'll probably go at least another 8-10k miles before my next change unless something seems amiss.

On a related note, two vehicles ago, I had a 98 Nissan Frontier and I never made it to a 3k service interval. It was more like a 7-8k mile interval uusing castrol syntec blend and whatever filter the dealer used. The used oil always looked pretty good, the mechanics were pretty impressed. When I traded it in at the 100k mark, the engine was still performing flawlessly. Man, I miss that truck. The way I see it, the Japanese build engines that are tough as tanks, you'd have to do something extremely stupid to mess it up.

I think oil changes aren't as necessary as people think. As long as it doesn't sludge, and the oil still feels like oil, you're fine.

Perhaps through in some duralube, which should make things more slippery.

My E @ 11k miles w/o first oil change. will bring to dealer for oil change and tires rotate also.

bwm's are smart and have an oil quality monitoring system. i'd be fine if it told me 18k. i think the german engineers who designed the system know best, just like the honda engineers who recommend every 10k for the E.[/QUOTE]

Actually, they have an algorithm that keeps track of the number of cold starts, etc. General Motors uses this too.

Oil & filter every 5-6K works for me.

9000 miles for me Im fixxing to take my Element on a trip So I fig. it would be good to change before 10,000 oil looked great to me HONDA not your dealership knows best!

I asked my dealer about "break in" oil and their reply was "there is no special break in oil".....That seems a bit odd but I just got my 1st oil change at just 3,000 miles. The dealer told me that it was a bit early but I figure the earlier the better specially since I get a free oil change every 3 months. THe dealer also said because it is a 4 cylinder and not a v6 that 5 thousand miles is sufficient.

My next oil change comes up a day before my birthday 10/05, or 19K miles whatever comes first. I go right to Honda and have them do it. No offense Jiffy Lube.

Chris~

Blah, Blah, Blah....Everyone seems to have very strong opinions about when to perform the first oil change.

Bottom line... no one really knows for sure if it is better to perform the first oil change at 500 miles, 5000 miles or 10000 miles. We just know what Honda tells us to do, and we all know what Dad told us was best. Not surprising there is so much controversy.

None of us has put enough miles on our Element to accumulate enough dependability data on this.

Give it a couple more years, and maybe we can perform a poll that might help us put some credibility to all this speculation.

does anyone use Amsoil in their elements? i heard it was a really good quality of oil and was just asking if anyone else had heard anything?:D

I have 5 quarts of Amsoil Severe Service 0W-30 waiting for my first change. I just passed 4500 miles and plan to change around 7000. After that, I will follow the 10K change interval- especially since the Amsoil would last much longer if I cared to.

I have my element oil changed at every 3000 miles with mobile 1 full syn oil.
i called my dealership to schedule a oil change and guess what they told me.
one of the service supervisors said it is too soon to have oil change service at every 3000 miles..he suggests me to come back at every 5000 miles espeically when i am using mobile one full syn:confused:
i have my e for almost 3 years now and it has oil change at every 3000 miles ever since.do you guys do the oil change to your e at every 3000 miles or ?:confused:
thanks

I have read a lot about oil changes and what all the pros say is that you need to change the oil as soon as you have ran the car for at most 100 miles. I think it is a marketing ploy to not have to change your oil in so long. There are small traces of metal that shear off during the beginning life of the engine and to leave it in the oil can ruin your bearings and cause harmful engine wear. I changed my oil every 500 miles up to 2000 miles and then changed it every 1500 miles. At 6000, after the piston rings were seated, I switched to mobil one synthetic.

Ideally, oil should always be clean in your engine. Changing it everyday before you drive would be the best, but people would never buy a car that advised that. Letting it sit in your engine for 10,000 miles would really hurt the engine from everything I have read. I changed my oil every 3,000 with full synthetic now and always use the honda filter.

10k .......no way this is right!:rolleyes: i just read the whole thread most of you are just throwing good oil away........(what about gas....does that get changed after not being used for a day or two??) i am changing the break-in oil on Friday with 2600 miles on it. the break-in period is now over so i can go on this the rest of my life. synthetic oil after 10 k is recommended by Mobil for some reason. i take better care of my cars then i do myself......but.......i don't even come close to the care and concern some of you have over your cars:-? ............its not just about the "e".....(i think i made my point) ...........ee

It friggin' blows me away how much smarter people with virtually no training are than the engineers at Honda. At this rate, we should have reliable warp drives in another ten years. Unbe-freakin-lievable.

Waiting to change the oil a marketing ploy...That's a good one, it's a conspiracy by the oil companies to conserve, I'll bet!

I go by the manual. But I've always been contrary that way.

10k .......no way this is right!:rolleyes: i just read the whole thread most of you are just throwing good oil away........(what about gas....does that get changed after not being used for a day or two??) i am changing the break-in oil on Friday with 2600 miles on it. the break-in period is now over so i can go on this the rest of my life. synthetic oil after 10 k is recommended by Mobil for some reason. i take better care of my cars then i do myself......but.......i don't even come close to the care and concern some of you have over your cars:-? ............its not just about the "e".....(i think i made my point) ...........ee

EE-

If you would take the time to send in a sample of your used oil, you will find it has a significant amount of gasoline dilution. This inarguably is proof that your engine is NOT yet broken in. The facts are that this engine is broken in somewhere around the 5000 mile mark, as found in many UOA.

The reason synthetic oil is recommended? It's good, it will last the 10,000 mile interval as SM rated, and the new Honda spec. It is the only oil I use/have used for almost 30 years. (With the exception of a short, foolhardy venture into MLM Amsoil for a while.)

"Unbe-freakin-lievable"...... Kayakin' Dan i thought you were sleeping on the job...this thread is way old for you to chime in now.....what are you following me around making sure i am not talking rubber chains again :rolleyes: , it almost looks like you were agreeing with me in this past thread ...........is this so?? where's MIKEQBF ??? where's his input?? what about Hownowcb i am sure he has something to say about the 10k oil change??


"sample of your used oil" hi mark c. i sent your thread regarding your oil sample to my testing lab that tests oil filled electrical transformers for PCB's and other stuff for work. they don't perform these tests. I will get a sample before I drop the oil and send it to your guy. do they require there own container? i was going to use the container that we send in samples for work. I think your thread was very good and it made a lot of sense. THANKS!!...................ee

wow. I changed my break in oil at 3100 miles. Honda had no problem with it. My dad says the break in oil should be changed at about 3600-4000 miles and then use that BW5? oil that you guys mentioned and change it every 5000mi max

wow. I changed my break in oil at 3100 miles. Honda had no problem with it. My dad says the break in oil should be changed at about 3600-4000 miles and then use that BW5? oil that you guys mentioned and change it every 5000mi max

"HONDA"? ... or your Honda DEALER? Yes, the dealer will tell you anything to get you to spend money for items that are NOT required at that time. HONDA, the manufacturer, states that the oil is to be left for the entire 10000OCI. I do not agree, but let's define who "HONDA" actually is!

wow. I changed my break in oil at 3100 miles. Honda had no problem with it. My dad says the break in oil should be changed at about 3600-4000 miles and then use that BW5? oil that you guys mentioned and change it every 5000mi max
Forgive me if I sound rude, but your dad says the oil should be changed at 3,600-4,000 miles? My dad said it should be changed at 500 miles. I don't claim to have a wealth of knowledge about different oils and whatnot, but fortunately for me, there's an owners manual with parameters defined by a bunch of people that get paid damn good money to be experts on oils and engines. Those parameters specifically say to leave the break-in oil in for at least 5,000 miles (severe cycle). I mean, my dad's smart and he's given me a lot of good advice, but I'm pretty sure he's wrong on this one.

As for my first oil change... I'll get to it eventually.

Black oil simply means that the additive package is doing its job and keeping "dirt" in suspension. It is not an indicator of the oil being "worn out" or needing change, per se.

I now have 5000 miles on my E. My salesman told me - several times, with much emphasis - that the first oil change must be at 5000 miles. However, my gauge says it is at 50%.

Do I ignore the salesman and wait, or do I ignore the gauge and change the oil?

Lynn

My salesman responded 4 times to my ever intensifying questioning that the first and each subsequent oil change should be at 10,000 miles.

I've read many of the threads - I just thought that perhaps the first oil change on a 2007 might be different and should be sooner than the monitor says. Following the monitor, it looks like it would be around 10,000 miles - nice!

Lynn

I had the same question when my E told me it was down to 20% at 3000 miles.

I got different answers from different Honda mechanics... honestly, they're all just learning the 2007 model and its oil monitoring system so none of them are really experts yet.

I stopped listenign to the one who was stubbornly insisting I wait til 5000 miles when my gauge started screaming at me (at somewhere between 3500 and 4000 miles) that I was down to my last 5%.

I took the advice of the mechanic who told me to listen to my screaming car, not the one who stubbornly enforces the 5000k rule no matter what the fuel monitor is screaming.

In the end, the one who filled it back up said, the oil probably would have lasted the full 5000 miles anyway, so the stubborn one wouldn't have done any DAMAGE by refusing to fill it, but the first batch of oil burns quickly and I definitely didn't do any damage by filling it up when it was down to the last 5%, like my car was telling me to.
___________

Ooops, I just realized re-reading the opening post that you have the opposite situation. Well, same logic probably applies :) I'd vote for listening to the car, personally.

I now have 5000 miles on my E. My salesman told me - several times, with much emphasis - that the first oil change must be at 5000 miles. However, my gauge says it is at 50%.

Do I ignore the salesman and wait, or do I ignore the gauge and change the oil?

Lynn

Do you do alot of highway and non-city driving? I too just hit 5000 miles on my 07 and the guage was reading 20% so I took it in and got the oil changed (that and the dealer hadnt checked the coolant and there was none in the reserve tank :rolleyes: so they filled that too).

I think if I were in your situation, I would just go ahead and change it for my own piece of mind. At least for the first oil change, then I'd probably foll0w the guage after that...

I was down to 15% at under 3500 miles. The Honda service center could not explain it. They seemed to imply that I must be running the car really hard. I said I do 50/50 highway/city driving and occasionally shift at 5000 rpms. I hope the second batch of oil will last a lot longer than the first.

I called the Honda Dealership where I bought my Honda Element the other day and I was all set for a 1500 mile oil change but the service dept. told me to wait till 5,000 miles are in before bringing it in for the 1st oil change, since there were some things in that oil and crankcase that actually need to remain in there for that many miles.

OK, I'll do as they ask. I wonder what is in the crank case that makes me wait till 5,000 miles. Hope it's not laughing gas. Thanks for your thoughts on this. Bill

I called the Honda Dealership where I bought my Honda Element the other day and I was all set for a 1500 mile oil change but the service dept. told me to wait till 5,000 miles are in before bringing it in for the 1st oil change, since there were some things in that oil and crankcase that actually need to remain in there for that many miles.

OK, I'll do as they ask. I wonder what is in the crank case that makes me wait till 5,000 miles. Hope it's not laughing gas. Thanks for your thoughts on this. Bill

There are special additives to the oil that help during the break-in period. My dealer would not change my oil until at least 5,000 miles.

Regards,

Sounds like a pretty trust worthy dealer if they try not to talk you into early oil changes:) Drew:)

I changed the oil/filter at 1600 miles; cut open the filter and found a lot of assembly debris. Today, at 6000 miles did another oil/filter and nothing found when the filter was opened up. Sure glad that I did the first one so soon.
I'm not buying into the 10k oil change.

There has been some discussion on the EOC about the break-in oil. An engineer on the EOC forum sent a sample off for lab tests and found it to be plain old 0w20 oil if I recall correctly. I think it is always wise to change the first oil at about 1k miles.

Do a search for a wealth of information.

If there was gunk in the filter, the filter was doing it's job. Any damage by manufacturing gunk would have been done within the first 100 or so miles.

My first oil change light came on at 3300 miles. I called the dealer and asked them about it and their first response was "Do you drive like Mario Andretti?" to which I answered "Yup."

Coming up on my 2nd change at around 5600 or so...

I called the Honda Dealership where I bought my Honda Element the other day and I was all set for a 1500 mile oil change but the service dept. told me to wait till 5,000 miles are in before bringing it in for the 1st oil change, since there were some things in that oil and crankcase that actually need to remain in there for that many miles.

OK, I'll do as they ask. I wonder what is in the crank case that makes me wait till 5,000 miles. Hope it's not laughing gas. Thanks for your thoughts on this. Bill

Go by what is in the Owners manual........
I waited until just after 9700 miles to do my 1st one and have been doing them about every 10,000 miles ever since, currently just over 73000 miles on it.

I went by the oil life read out. When it reached 15%, at about 5,500 miles, I took it in. I had called and asked the dealer at about 3,000 miles and the service department guy said I could rely on that. Since they are on the hook for service for the five years and 100,000 miles, I figured I would trust them.

This post got me thinking about when I should get my first oil change. I only have about $1,500 miles now. So I just gave the dealer a call, they said 3,750 for the 1st oil change and every 3,000 after that. I find it interesting there are so many different answers. I don't put many miles at all on my car, maybe I'll just go ahead and change it earlier rather than later.

This post got me thinking about when I should get my first oil change. I only have about $1,500 miles now. So I just gave the dealer a call, they said 3,750 for the 1st oil change and every 3,000 after that. I find it interesting there are so many different answers. I don't put many miles at all on my car, maybe I'll just go ahead and change it earlier rather than later.

Why can't you use your maintenance minder? At a min it says you must change once a year - for me it's looking around 5k for a change.

Honda installed it... <shrug>

On new vehicles I go overkill on the oil. I change the oil every 1500 miles until 4500. That way to ensure I get the metal parts floating around in the early stages. Then after that 4500 I go 7500 using AMSoil.

My first oil change light came on at 3300 miles. I called the dealer and asked them about it and their first response was "Do you drive like Mario Andretti?" to which I answered "Yup."

Coming up on my 2nd change at around 5600 or so...


Gee twighlight! I still had 15% left at 5200 mi on my first change, but had it changed then.

My first oil change light came on at 3300 miles. I called the dealer and asked them about it and their first response was "Do you drive like Mario Andretti?" to which I answered "Yup."

Coming up on my 2nd change at around 5600 or so...

damn, must be that midwestern weather! :???:

I'm just shy of 9000 (got the first oil change at 5000 as per maintenance minder) and it says I'm still at 50%, and this is 70-30 city-highway miles... :neutral:

damn, must be that midwestern weather! :???:

I'm just shy of 9000 (got the first oil change at 5000 as per maintenance minder) and it says I'm still at 50%, and this is 70-30 city-highway miles... :neutral:

No, it has more to do with the fact that every time I start out from a stop, I drive each gear up to about 5K RPM's :razz: :lol:

I just got a new SC and one of the things my dealer went over with me was the oil change. They said to not bring it in at 3,000 or 5,000 or any other certain number for the first (and the follow on changes after that), but to instead just go by the on-board computer that says when it needs changed.

So, went to Honda for my first oil change (@5.2k miles and maintenance minder super computer thingy readout at 5%). Driving home, I noticed that "next oil change" sticker they put on and said at around 8.5k miles. Hmmm...

Todd, they were right to tell you to follow the computer for your oil changes. Peoples driving styles are different. Some like to rev it up, others don't. Highway and city driving mix differs. Some times we are driving in below zero weather, sometimes it's 100 degrees. Sometimes we carry heavy loads, sometimes we don't. The computer takes all of these factors into consideration and more and tells us when it's time for some new oil. 5000 mi might be right for some people, 7,500 or 10,000 for others, so rather than just pick a number that's an average, we can now use something more precise and probably save some of that precious black gold in the process.

I had a 99 BMW that had the computer oil change system, so it's been around for a while. If BMW believes in the computer for oil changes on a $60,000 high performance M3, it's probably a good system.

...did you own a ford in an earlier life and are just simply in a habit to see the dealer once a month?? :-)

:D

Shame on you!!

I was at the dealer earlier today. Since I have known the s/m for about 20 yrs and 3 dealerships, thought I would ask. He said that everything changed with the '07 and the OLM. Honda has told them specifically to go till 5,000 miles from NOW on.
Honda said that starting with the '07's they added a pkg for break-in. This is from a dealer that PREACHED to change oil and filter every 3 months or 3,000 miles!!! I can't even imagine how much they have lost this year in oil changes and related inspections, :) . So, I tend to believe that everything has now changed. He said that putting in full synthetic at 5,000 was ok, also, Tim

I found some A01s that a guy is selling on eBay. He has about half a dozen left and is willing to sell them cheaply. He does not have alot of feedback (30) but, it's 100% positive (my feeback is a little more and I've never had any problems). I double checked with him that they were A01s and he came back with the entire correct number (double-double checked with threads here). :???:
I offered $15 for a lot of five shipped, and he accepted. He only seems to be selling them on eBay one at a time, but it sounds like he would love to get rid of the rest as quick as possible (less listing fees). His auction for the one just ended, so it might be a bit until he lists any others.
If inerested, his logon id is: whit313th, you can contact him directly with an eBay account. :D

So, went to Honda for my first oil change (@5.2k miles and maintenance minder super computer thingy readout at 5%). Driving home, I noticed that "next oil change" sticker they put on and said at around 8.5k miles. Hmmm...

Of course they did.........if you are willing to change it every 3K miles, they are willing to take your money.

How do you find the time to run to the dealer that often...?? ...did you own a ford in an earlier life and are just simply in a habit to see the dealer once a month?? :-)


No joke! I am trading my 03 F-250 for an 08 EX and I am just praying that the damn thing does not break before we finish the deal!

I called the Honda Dealership where I bought my Honda Element the other day and I was all set for a 1500 mile oil change but the service dept. told me to wait till 5,000 miles are in before bringing it in for the 1st oil change, since there were some things in that oil and crankcase that actually need to remain in there for that many miles.

OK, I'll do as they ask. I wonder what is in the crank case that makes me wait till 5,000 miles. Hope it's not laughing gas. Thanks for your thoughts on this. Bill


My dealership told me to wait 7000 miles for my first oil change. I thought they were crazy but then I thought, they are turning down an opportunity to make money so I made another appointment when it hit 7000 miles.

IMHO, it depends on two things (besides on your driving habits) - oil and filter. Synthetic oil and a GOOD filter are the major keys to longevity of the lubricating properties of the oil (and, therefore, the life of your engine)...... :D;-)

I do mine every 3-4K. I use Mobil 1. I would rather not take chances of letting it go till 10K for an oil change. I have heard amsoil is able to go about 10K between changes, but taht stuff also cost a lot more than most synthetics.

Also I have read numerous reports that most of the additives in the oil is used up around 3-4K miles.

I just hit 31,000 on mine.... first oil change was at 3000 (free from dealer). Since then it's been around every 7000 miles using the maintanance minder.

I'm just approaching 5K and my maintenance minder is telling me time for an oil change (15% oil life left). On the newer E's you can check the "oil life" by turning the trip counter reset knob.

At around 3500 miles our oil life went to 0% and then we started accumulating negative miles. Since it has been 6 months since we purchased our E (we don't drive much) we can say that the oil life goes also by time so we had to change it way under 5000 miles (did not want the dealer to smack us when we drove in with negative 1500 miles of oil life):D

I just changed mine in the 08 for the first time. I usually always break in an engine and change soon. But the last two cars, 08 Element an my daughters 08 Nissan Altima I waited six months upon dealer recommendations. Hers only has about 3000 mi and mine has 5270 since Feb. and stilled showed 30% on the meter. Went away from my Mobil 1 and Shell Rotella synthetics and tried Castrol 5/20 synthetic and a Mobil 1 filter. Just change oil and filter often and use a quality conforming oil and all is good.

Approaching 4,500 miles; Maintenance Minder is saying still 50% oil life remaining. I am not comfortable with a 9,000 mile interval on the factory oil/filter (or any oil/filter). Will I confuse the Maintenance Minder if I reset it in the middle of the cycle? I am planning on changing at 5,000 with a K&N filter and semi-synthetic oil if one exists in the proper weight, otherwise full synthetic. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Will I confuse the Maintenance Minder if I reset it in the middle of the cycle?

Nope. Just remember to reset it.

Will

With our E's (my daughter's and mine) I changed the oil at 1,000 miles with Mobile 1 and used Wix filters from NAMPA then again at 5,000 miles and every 5k after that, I believe they should last at least 200-300k miles. Unless you're driving in seriously dusty areas, then any more frequently on the oil changes would be a waste of time and money. In any event, there are usually metal chips and shavings that will be found within the first 1000 miles. I understand that Honda says that there is some special "conditioner" in the the "break in" oil but I've not heard what that snake oil additive is and if it's really that good, why aren't Porsche, BMW or Mercedes using it as well? Also started getting 2-3 mpg better gas mileage immediately after that first oil change and it got better after 5K! In the long run, oil is cheap.

I think best method is following what's on your Manual.

As if honda engineers would roll dice to get a random number. They're goal is to create a reputation as reliable, economical cars.

Follow the directions in the manual and you'll be fine.

As for the first oil that's in the car, it's just mineral based oil, the non-synthetic stuff. but it helps to strengthen the internals of your engine.

Chaning to Synthetic or even blend mean improper seating of your rings, etc..

Stick with regular oil till 10k.. then switch to Synthetic if you want to.

EDIT: NEVER use synthetic oil before full breakin of your engine.

Anyone ever smell the oil when it is new, and compare the smell of fuel in the oil after 3,000 miles? The smell of fuel in the oil is just is a simple indicator that the oil is being thinned and not working as effectively. I think to keep contaminated oil in the pan any longer than the oil stays clean is just nuts in my opinion.

I use Mobil-1 super synthetic 5-20 and have always changed it every 3,000 miles. Just turned 26,000 miles on this E and ran my last car (2001 CRV) the same way, and the oil always looks clean, and smells clean too.

My hope is to drive this Element until it dies, so I wish to keep it in new condition, so far so good.

just had my 1st oil change at 6700 miles. i waited until the maintenance minder came on and then took it in to the local dealership. The oil change was $40 which was a bummer. The thing that pissed me off is that the guy at the dealership RECOMMENDED the "5000 mile service" for an additional $109. WTF?
Is anyone able to recommend an honest dealer near Irvine, CA?

I too was wondering when to get my first oil change. I did the Prelude every 3,000 miles religiously. Then coincidently, just got this in an email from the dealership:

".....Since your 2008 Honda Element is equipped with the Maintenance Minder TM system, it's easy to know when it's time for scheduled maintenance because the Maintenance Minder Indicator will be displayed when you turn on the ignition switch. Refer to your owner's manual for more information.

We make it easy for you to take good care of your vehicle. Whether your Honda needs an oil change or recommended maintenance, our service department is fast and convenient.



What is Maintenance Minder?


The Maintenance Minder system monitors how you drive and reminds you when its time for service. This onboard computer also judges your driving conditions and habits, and then calculates the remaining engine oil life, displaying it as a percentage.
The technology of the Maintenance Minder system allows you to enjoy your vehicle without wondering when its due for your next service. ...."

I'm at 50% right now. Guess I'll wait a while. It came with free oil changes so I'm not stressing it.

The manual says 15 to 10 percent ( as someone mentioned before) means it will need service soon. 5 to 1 percent gives you an additional message "SERVICE" with a code referring to which service you need. Symbol "A" means change the oil.

" If after 12 months the service light does not appear, change the engine oil every year. "

Once a year? How sweet is that :grin::grin:

I too was wondering when to get my first oil change. I did the Prelude every 3,000 miles religiously. Then coincidently, just got this in an email from the dealership:

".....Since your 2008 Honda Element is equipped with the Maintenance Minder TM system, it's easy to know when it's time for scheduled maintenance because the Maintenance Minder Indicator will be displayed when you turn on the ignition switch. Refer to your owner's manual for more information.

We make it easy for you to take good care of your vehicle. Whether your Honda needs an oil change or recommended maintenance, our service department is fast and convenient.



What is Maintenance Minder?


The Maintenance Minder system monitors how you drive and reminds you when its time for service. This onboard computer also judges your driving conditions and habits, and then calculates the remaining engine oil life, displaying it as a percentage.
The technology of the Maintenance Minder system allows you to enjoy your vehicle without wondering when its due for your next service. ...."

I'm at 50% right now. Guess I'll wait a while. It came with free oil changes so I'm not stressing it.

The manual says 15 to 10 percent ( as someone mentioned before) means it will need service soon. 5 to 1 percent gives you an additional message "SERVICE" with a code referring to which service you need. Symbol "A" means change the oil.

" If after 12 months the service light does not appear, change the engine oil every year. "

Once a year? How sweet is that :grin::grin:

Good Post. I just took my E into the dealer for it's first oil change. I have 5671 miles on the car and it's still at 30% on the Maintenance minder.. I have a new sticker on the window with 10,761 listed for the next oil change. Good experience so far overall.

I changed the oil/filter at 1600 miles; cut open the filter and found a lot of assembly debris. Today, at 6000 miles did another oil/filter and nothing found when the filter was opened up. Sure glad that I did the first one so soon.
I'm not buying into the 10k oil change.


Glad about what? The filter was doing its job, if you were going to have any damage from debris, it would have happened in the first hour of engine operation. It had 1600 miles on it. What do you think a filter is for?
Frequent oil changes are the biggest placeo there is, follow the manual and dont worry about it .......

Glad about what? The filter was doing its job, if you were going to have any damage from debris, it would have happened in the first hour of engine operation. It had 1600 miles on it. What do you think a filter is for?
Frequent oil changes are the biggest placeo there is, follow the manual and dont worry about it .......

Ditto that - especially since in the manual it emphasizes DO NOT change the oil early, before first oil-minder service, so as to complete the engine's engineered/designed-in break-in process.

Glad about what? The filter was doing its job, if you were going to have any damage from debris, it would have happened in the first hour of engine operation. It had 1600 miles on it. What do you think a filter is for?
Frequent oil changes are the biggest placeo there is, follow the manual and dont worry about it .......

Do you know that when the oil is cold and thick it can by pass the filter? Yea all engines have a by-pass, some are in the filter others in the block. So any gunk would go directly to any lubricated part. I do mostly short trips under 4 miles to work and after 2 years only have 15k on the odo, So that would translate to only 1 oil change so far and the next one due next summer.
ASE certified 13 areas for 31 years turning wrenches for GM, what makes you an expert?

Do you know that when the oil is cold and thick it can by pass the filter? Yea all engines have a by-pass, some are in the filter others in the block. So any gunk would go directly to any lubricated part. I do mostly short trips under 4 miles to work and after 2 years only have 15k on the odo, So that would translate to only 1 oil change so far and the next one due next summer.
ASE certified 13 areas for 31 years turning wrenches for GM, what makes you an expert?

What has the oil-minder been indicating for the above? Be interesting to know if it is able to take into account short trips, low mileage and still give a semi-accurate/sensible oil change interval.

Wouldn't the car have to be on Neptune for 5W20 to be thick enough to bypass the filter?

I'm not sure at what pressure the by-pass opens, but i know its very low say around 5 psi. The main reason for this is if the filter becomes clogged/restricted at least the "dirty" oil gets to the engine. Have you ever changed oil when its 20* it takes forever to drain, just like trying to pour honey out of a jar.

The oil minder shows 40% when changed at 3k. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, this is how I take care of my vehicles. Also I never pay for oil changes, it's one of the few perks my job has to offer. I also plan on keeping the E for a long time, and the last thing I ever want to see is the inside of my engine.

The oil minder shows 40% when changed at 3k. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, this is how I take care of my vehicles. Also I never pay for oil changes, it's one of the few perks my job has to offer. I also plan on keeping the E for a long time, and the last thing I ever want to see is the inside of my engine.

Sounds like the oil-minder was at least counting down to a change around 4K-5K - which is good to know. I'm guessing that is the lowest "harsh conditions" count it will do.

Oke doke, let's all be friendly.

I did my first oil change around 2500, just cause i was eager to get mobile one in it hehe. Other then that i let the little reminder tell me when to do it. Ive got 8500 mile or so on her now and its at 15 % which i plan on changing tommorrow. So ive gotten about 6000 miles.

lizzurd - what did u use to last so long?! and dont tell me u drive conservativelly.... speaking of that i did an oil change around 5000 miles...now at 9700 miles still have 40% life too! ok that oil sensor must be haywired!


I am still on the factory fill oil. Don't forget 75% of my driving is done with my backseat passenger. He makes me take it easy when i am driving. With summer coming up i am estimating that by the end of june i will be due for an oil change. That will be 9 months and roughly 12,000 km.

when will u drive like a soccer dad?!

I change my oil every 5K. It has worked for just about every car that I have owned. Use 5w-20 Pennzoil Platinum(Syn). I get a 5 qt. jug at Walmart for $22.00, I don't think that price is to bad. Get my filters from H&A, Good people!:)

I bought a 5 qt jug of the same thing at Walmart last week for $20.

As frequently as I do changes (3-4Kmi) and as gently as I drive, I don't worry about the filters; I just use a new one for every oil change. (I can't imagine what Honda was thinking when they recommennded changing filter with alternate oil changes.) I think the A02 OEM or anything except the cheapest Fram is adequate when you don't subject the engine to severe service.

If I were pulling a trailer it would be a different story.

While we are in the oil change mode, what are most of you using for filters? I have used Fram filters and Castrol GTX for years on many different cars with no ill effects. Can the AO1? OEM filter really be that much better? Thanks

I have used Fram filters ... Can the AO1? OEM filter really be that much better?

The guts look like they are better quality. My common sense says that when it comes to filtering, bigger and more filter surface = better crud trapping. I'm enough of an engineer to know that types of materials make a difference, and flow rate matters.

Whether it would make a real difference for you in practice is any ones guess. Part would depend on how you drove, what you used for lube, and how often you changed the oil - all huge variables.

I know that Fram has sold sells at least 2 different quality filters with the same retail id number, because I had to get 3 filters of the same type and couldn't get all three from the local PepBoys. The one from Walmart had the same markings but was slightly smaller, had a flimsier can and was different when I looked into the opening. Again, it might not make a difference in practice for you.

I am still on the factory fill oil. Don't forget 75% of my driving is done with my backseat passenger. He makes me take it easy when i am driving. With summer coming up i am estimating that by the end of june i will be due for an oil change. That will be 9 months and roughly 12,000 km.


To follow up on my prediction i fell a little short.

Last week i was at 30% and 10,000 km. By saturday i dropped down to 20%. This morning the indicator for an A1 service came on at 7.5 months and 12,500 km.

Great thread! Quick question to the experts out there... I have 4100 miles on my E and the oil is at 40%. I am planning a 2000 mile trip in about a month. Should I get the break in oil out of there and change it before the trip even if the oil life is still about 30%? I am planning on using a Honda filter and Mobil 1 Synthetic. What weight is recommended?
Thanks in advance!
Walt

I just got my 2010 E a couple weeks ago and I'm past the break-in period. I'm currently sitting with 1500-1600 miles on it. I've heard somewhere that you should get an oil change after the break-in period because of all the metal shavings and sediment that gets generated as the engines parts work into a groove. Is this true?

Best practice is to go by the owners manual. I'm not sure in your area, but my dealership I take it to I take my own oil and filter and it costs $5 for them to change it.

I usually eat $5.50 worth of free donuts and coffee so the deal is even sweeter...lol.

To my knowledge there is no requirement to change the oil after the break in period. There should not be any metal shavings, etc. in the oil pan and if there is you have a serious problem. If it makes you feel better you could change the oil and filter but I do not think it is necessary. I waited till 3.5K before I first changed my oil and filter.
Anyone else care to weigh in?

I've heard somewhere that you should get an oil change after the break-in period because of all the metal shavings and sediment that gets generated as the engines parts work into a groove. Is this true?



It has been discussed quite a bit already, actually too much....try a quick "break-in" (http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/search.php?searchid=3341985) search.

In short...Honda says "no." Many (a bunch, some, etc) people, like me...say "yes"... it is best to get the 'junk' out.

On all cars but hondas I'm crazy and do a oil and filter change at 1000 then a oil change at 3000 then a oil and filter change at 5000. Thats all total miles on the car not the mileage in between. After the 1,3,5 you can do what ever oci your comfortable with. On my 05 element honda said to leave in the factory for 5k so I did and that was really hard for me to do. I dont know if they still say to do that or not? I also use dino oil for the 1,3,5 eventhough oil companys say its ok to use syn from the get go. I figure its much cheaper to use the dino since I'm dumping so early. Not that you have to use syn in the E after that you can use what you want.

Why is it that so many people simply refuse to follow the manufacturer's recommendations when it comes to changing oil? Is it that y'all don't trust the manufacturer to know what's best or do you think they are trying to trick you?

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx177/mccoysphotos/breakin.jpg

Why is it that so many people simply refuse to follow the manufacturer's recommendations when it comes to changing oil? Is it that y'all don't trust the manufacturer to know what's best or do you think they are trying to trick you?

Honda's oil change interval is designed to keep the engine working through the warranty period. After that who knows. So, I fall in the camp of not trusting the manufacturer.

Having said that, I did wait much longer to do the first oil change than what is usual for a new car. However, I don't trust dino oil for 10k miles.

It's not in their best interest to have engines crapping out just out of warranty. Reliability is a very important factor when selling cars. If Honda had a reputation for their engines crapping out at 37,000 miles, I sure wouldn't have bought one.

my oil life readout has been dead on 7500 miles every time. I hit that every other month so been going by that. I have been using the castrol synthetic blend and a purolater micron filter.

So when are the owners of the newer Es and SCs (with the oil change minders) being told to change their oil? and what kind do you use?

So when are the owners of the newer Es and SCs (with the oil change minders) being told to change their oil? and what kind do you use?

The oil change minder on my 2008 comes on after about 7500 miles. That's with all highway driving. I had the dealer do the first oil change, so he used Honda oil. He did such a lousy job (oil all over the frame, way over-tightened filter and oil plug), I did the next one, and switched to Mobile 1.

I used Mobil 1 when it first came out in my new '76 Corolla, and went 12,000 without changing the oil, just topping it off and visually checking the dipstick for oil color change. Most of my trips were 20 miles or more with few stops.

That engine had 130,000 miles on it without a tear down. The third owner scrapped it after a collision. The only engine adjustment in the 10 years I had it was a valve adjustment I did just before before selling it.

We drive much shorter trips in our Element today than in the Toyota, so I do changes twice a year by calendar, not mileage. Though I still use synthetic oil, I see quite a bit of residue in the drained oil. The tiny oil filter may be the limiting factor. (The ones I used on my Toyota held almost a quart of oil.)

I think the oil minder as a high tech idiot light. Changing oil is cheaper than rebuilding an engine.

i use mobile 1 also, go 10k between changes but I change the filter with the oem filter at 5k.

it would be interesting to see how oil wears with the oil minder in the E: conventional versus synthetic. the oil minder actually tests the quality of the oil right? ... not like the stupid maintenance light that comes on every 10k.

i thought it was just calculated due to driving style. RPMS vs mileage or something like that. I didn't think it actually did any checks on the actual motor oil. That would be neat if it did.

The maintenance minder is geared to the type of driving that is done, not what's in the crankcase. I've used both conventional and synthetic oils. The change interval does not increase with synthetic. Bummer knowing your Mobil 1 is good for easily twice the mileage of conventional oil.

. . .The change interval does not increase with synthetic. Bummer knowing your Mobil 1 is good for easily twice the mileage of conventional oil.

The oil's resistance to breakdown is one factor, the level of contaminants like sludge, carbon blow-by, moisture and acid is what should determine determine when oil needs to be changed. That digital electronics, counters and timers are used instead of idiot lights, might be better than an oil pressure idiot light, but nothing beats physical inspection of oil and preventative maintenance.

I don't trust the simple-minded software of a maintenance minder to tell when a filter is no longer effective or the crankcase needs to be drained. If the Mark 1 Human brain is engaged in this process, it beats the heck out of noticing when a digitally controlled idiot light turns on. A weekly check with the Mark 1 Human eyeballs and fingers can do as good an analysis of oil contamination, air filter blockage and oil consumption as the Maintenance Minder; a paper calendar and odometer are far more reliable than digital electronics.

If I were engineering Hondas, I would rename the Maintenance Minder to Maintenance ReMinder, modify its logic to simply categorize the overall operation of the vehicle as Normal or Severe operation, displaying the category continuously, flashing the display at inspection intervals. A card with the Normal and Severe Maintenance Schedules would be stored in a slot in the glove compartment door or driver side sun visor.

For owners who wanted a simpler to understand schedule that reflected their actual operation I'd have a feature on Honda Ownerlink that could used owner provided information to produce a suggested maintenance schedules based on the annual mileage driven and operation category, and print the two maintenance schedules on a sheet that could be folded in half to replace the original maintenance schedule.

Ownerlink site software could use owner experience, dealer feedback and TSBs, to make changes to the pre-production printed maintenance schedules to reflect real world experience. Of course that would require Honda to decide to actively market Ownerlink and know how to do marketing.

....Bummer knowing your Mobil 1 is good for easily twice the mileage of conventional oil.

That's an easy fix! Just reset your minder count down timer and replace the oil and filter on the second cycle.

'07 & '08 reset:


Ignition to II (engine off)

Press the reset button for 10 seconds.

When it blinks, push button again for ~5 seconds

Done!

As for me in my '06, I change it when I get around to it. I did the first oil change at 5,000 miles (but I did add a quart at 2,000 because it had burned that much). Since then, it's ranged from 5,000 to 12,000 miles. Right now, I'm at 7,000 and I think I'm gonna get it changed tonight, as I put a can of SeaFoam in the engine about 1,000 miles ago. Car's got 62,000 on it and it runs just fine.

run about 7500 miles between oil changes. Mobil 1 Synthetic oil and filter. I ignore the oil minder light, that thing is crap.

In 2003, I bought a brand new 03 Honda Civic EX 5 speed stick with 20 miles on it. Currently, my civic has logged 225,000 miles, the engine still idles smooth, no oil leaks, no burning oil issue, no black smoke from the tail pipe, no vibrations. I do most of the maintenance (former technician/mechanic). From the first oil change, I only used full synthetic Mobil 1 performance 15,000 mile oil (similar to what Mercedes vehicles use), high performance oil filter, and I change my oil between 10,000 - 15,000 depending on driving conditions. The earliest I would change the oil is probably about 6,000 miles if I do road trips on unpaved roads. Typical driving condition is freeway driving for one to two hours, light loads.

Now, I have a brand new 4WD Element EX, and I am tempted to do the same, ..., use 10,000 to 15,000 oil change intervals, 6,000 for unusual conditions, 3,000 for hauling conditions, as I did with my trusty civic. Anyone in this forum change their oil at long intervals?

Thanks for any feedback

Moved your thread into here reyrivera. Honestly, there were about 10 other threads
I could have moved this too. There are hundreds of threads about oil, synthetic
oil, interval change on this forum. PLEASE use the search button.

Thanks,

Sorry about that, I was using a hand held device when I posted my question, took too long to do a search query. Cool, now I got my answer.

Moved your thread into here reyrivera. Honestly, there were about 10 other threads
I could have moved this too. There are hundreds of threads about oil, synthetic
oil, interval change on this forum. PLEASE use the search button.

Now, I have a brand new 4WD Element EX, and I am tempted to do the same, ..., use 10,000 to 15,000 oil change intervals, 6,000 for unusual conditions, 3,000 for hauling conditions, as I did with my trusty civic. Anyone in this forum change their oil at long intervals?

It is encourging to see people willing to give longer intervals a shop...I'm kinda chicken in that respect "better safe than sorry" sorta attitude twards fluid changes.

Anyway...try it. I'd suggest "sneaking" up on the longer changes. The first one is important to the life of the engine...go w/ the factory recomendation (or sooner.) Once the Element is fully "broken in" around 10,000 miles try going longer between changes. Take a sample and send it out for evaluation to someplace like BlackStone Labs. (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/what-is-oil-analysis.php) Maybe have them test a "recomended miles" sample, an 8,000 mile sample, then a 10,000 or maybe even a 12,000miles sample and base the next oil change on those results. Go a few more oil changes and send out another sample. That way you'll be streching the oil as long as reasonablly possible w/o causing premature engine wear or other issues. Better than any magic WAG you get for some guy on the internet. ;-)


Goood luck, have fun....enjoy yer new E!

I'v always done my oil changes every 5k miles - it's really easy to remember when you're due to change it based on this interval.

There is NO WAY that only 4.4 qts. of any type of oil can last 10K in that little engine... with that little filter!
Synthetic oil is not magic after all.

There is NO WAY that only 4.4 qts. of any type of oil can last 10K in that little engine... with that little filter!
Synthetic oil is not magic after all.

It depends on how you drive and the type/quality of the oil.

If you drive long trips every day, stay out of construction zones and off gravel roads, keep the air filter and engine compartment clean, don't speed and don't have a lead foot, it's not impossible.

I did it on my 1976 Toyota Corolla SR-5 Liftback (1600cc / 2100 lb), for the first 5 years I owned it; the oil didn't even change color. The engine never burned a significant amount of oil between changes. The partial engine tear down at 80,000 miles showed negligible wear.

It wasn't because of having a larger filter. I sawed one in half on a bet after a 10K change, and couldn't see any trapped material.

If it weren't for the body rusting through, I'd still have it. It was the best value car I've ever had. $4500 new, it averaged 29 mpg. My only regret, after getting a job that required driving downtown each day in stop and go traffic, was not having gotten the AT. It had a heavy clutch. I kept it 13 years, my brother-in-law drove it to school in Minnesota for another 2, sold it to another guy who had it for at least 2 more.

I did have the same concern when I tried the full synthetic oil. I do mostly freeway driving, and avoid high rpms, I keep my tach around 3200 rpm, that's roughly between 63-68 mph on my civic. When I see my oil start turning dark, then I replace it. I could also tell that its time to change the oil because my gas mileage go down a bit. During Spring and Summer, I drive about 1,000 per week (work/play/surf/windsurf/kite) along the coast line. So, I don't want to change my oil every month.

It was an experiment, and it worked for me, experience/results will vary depending on your driving conditions.

There is NO WAY that only 4.4 qts. of any type of oil can last 10K in that little engine... with that little filter!
Synthetic oil is not magic after all.

Oil changes = cheap.

Pushing the limits of your engine's internal lubrication system on purpose = moronic.

After all, I might want to buy one of your used Elements from you sometime in the future. Is bragging about how long you went between oil changes supposed to be a selling point?

Thank you for your honest opinion, I'll keep that in mind when its time to sell my toaster.

Oil changes = cheap.

Pushing the limits of your engine's internal lubrication system on purpose = moronic.

After all, I might want to buy one of your used Elements from you sometime in the future. Is bragging about how long you went between oil changes supposed to be a selling point?

1000 miles a week? Wow, that must be expensive with today's gas prices (at least around me - we've been hovering around $4.25-$4.50/gal for several months). I can understand not wanting to deal with a monthly oil change but I personally think an oil change is cheap toward minimizing long-term engine wear. Regardless of how and where you drive or what oil you use, more frequent oil changes is better for your car - how often is a personal choice, balancing inconvenience and expense with a desire for longevity of your car. I personally could never bring myself to go 10k without changing my oil.