Well I hauled my video gear and equipment cart to a job today and gouged (not scuffed) the rear deck pulling the equipment out. I can see I'm really going to have to use kid gloves loading and unloading. I've got to say the plastic components in this vehichle qualify as a substantial design flaw. What a shame in an otherwise wonderful product.

I am not sure how durrable people think plastic should be. I know that plastic is not ment to have something drag over it. It the same with the bed of a pick up, you cover it with a liner to protect it. If I have to drag something out of my element I put down some old carpet.

I would bet that if you check the plastic in other cars you would find fading and scratches. Plastic might not have been a good choice for the tail gate as it is a high traffic area. I would suggest you attatch a piece of carpet with double sided tape. Or don't drag things over it.

As for the out side plastic I find it pretty tough. While washing it, I hit the fender with the wand. If I had hit the piant there would have been a scratch. Not a mark on the fender.

No offence, but treat the plastic like the piant don't drag things.

[quote:dcfdc7eac2="boneheadz"]I am not sure how durrable people think plastic should be. I know that plastic is not ment to have something drag over it. It the same with the bed of a pick up, you cover it with a liner to protect it. If I have to drag something out of my element I put down some old carpet.

... Plastic might not have been a good choice for the tail gate as it is a high traffic area. I would suggest you attatch a piece of carpet with double sided tape. Or don't drag things over it.

No offence, but treat the plastic like the piant don't drag things.[/quote:dcfdc7eac2]

Plastic can be pretty durable, and my point is that it was not a good choice for exactly the reason you site. AND I acknowledged that in the future things going in and out will be treated gingerly. So, (not to be disrespectful of a senior poster) what's your point?

Really is there any need to yell.

My point is
[I've got to say the plastic components in this vehicle qualify as a substantial design flaw. ]
This is not a design flaw. I don't know of any other car or truck that does not have the same type of plastic. Treat it like any other car and it will be fine.

From reading the post on the body panels and interior scratching I get the feeling the people believe that this truck is indestructible. Maybe that is the fault of the marketing.

My post was not met to be attacking to you or down play the damage to your truck. I simply think, as a group, we are worrying too much about stuff that is normal. Judging from the volume of you post it seems I stuck a nerve. For that I apologize.

PS
senior posts only mean I spend too much time reading and posting on this board. [/quote]

I beg to differ but it clearly is a design flaw, or at best a bad choice of materials. I've had a number of vehicles with plastic panels in high-traffic areas and none have suffered damage as readilly as the Element's interior cargo-space and tailgate trim does. Plastic is, by it's very nature, more likely to be damaged than some other materials, but there are various formulations of varying strengths and durability, any of which would be more resistant than the materials Honda has chosen to use.

The E is obviously designed to a price and I respect the engineering choices that have had to be made to achieve that goal - after all, it made it affordable for me to buy! But it shouldn't be necessary for an owner to use an old piece of carpet in a vehicle marketed as a go-and-do-anything utility truck for an active lifestyle. They are inviting the very type of use that will most likely cause damage to it and more durable paneling would be somewhat more appropriate. I bet we'll see slightly harder plastic formulations used in future Es once Honda start seeing customer feedback!

You make a good piont. But so far I have had no problem with any of my plastic. I haul a couple of dogs and a lot of gear. I might change my tune when/if I scratch my plastic.

I remember what my carpet in my old SUV looked like. From dragging heavy things across it, dirt, mulch, wood, bricks, etc. After a bit the carpet showed definite signs use ( and it didn't take that long either. ) In other words anything that gets utility use including carpet, plastic, whatever will look bad from it eventually . The carpet was pilled and snagged from doggies toes. Spills were worse. It will be nice to have the plastic in the Element for this reason. I think this is where the plastic can be wonderful. As far as scratches, I would expect them and put down something no matter how indestructable it was thought to be from now on just because I feel anything can take a beating and has it's limits. If Honda trys to improve in this area it would be nice but even if they did not I would still take precautions to protect the surface from here on out.


LittleDogBox
Arlington, Virginia

I'm not really sure what the big problem is... Honda could have used a different grade of plastic, but maybe since there is so much plastic on the car, it would be cost prohibitive. In my opinion (and that's all it is) the truck is fine just like it is. I am glad that I know as much as I do about this and other eccentricities of the car, thanks to this wonderful little corner of the 'Net, so I can be aware of these things.

With that said, it seems to me that if you use your Element to its' potential, it will show signs of wear and tear. To some, that is considered a big flaw. To others, and this is the camp I belong in, the battle scars add to the character of the truck. Both my Dad and Grandad had trucks that transcended generations and were beautiful in their beat-up, utilitarian way.

On the other hand, if you want it to look like it did the day you drove it off the dealers lot, then keep it garaged, don't drive anywhere near where there is gravel or bushes or other cars, don't carry anything in the car that has any sharp edges and get it detailed every other month.

Obviously, these are two ends of a spectrum. I don't really envision mine becoming like my Dad's "Ole Grey", a '63 Ford pickup with 'three on-the-tree' that we would give a new coat of primer gray every summer.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect that the Element will be impervious to marks, scratches and gouging when you drag heavy equipment in and out of a truck in this price range. I carry guitars, amps, and all the other crap that it takes to play live music in mine and i don't expect that there will be no evidence of that use over time.

It would've been nice if the materials were of a higher grade, but my opinion is that we got what we paid for and this does not even come close to a design flaw.

Peace out,
-jdef

Very well put.

I think Honda may be aware that some people will rough the plastic in the back up more than others, that is why you can buy that cargo protector they sell. I would consider purchasing one if I were going to be constantly loading and unloading equipment into mine, but maybe I worry to much about damaging it so early in my ownership.

As the starter of this thread let me point out that I wasn't complaining about scratches or scuffs, I was complaining about gouges. That's a different animal and, in my opinion, is inappropriate to a utility vehichle.

I'm confused about the location of the gouge... is it on the actual tailgate? On the spare tire cover? In any case, the softness of those areas has been pretty well documented. To me, it doesn't really matter as long as the damage doesn't impair the utility of the car, which, in the end, is what's important, right?

It should be noted, though, that Honda DID make some efforts to toughen up the interior plastics by using Thermal Plastic Ofelin (TPO) for the flooring. From the white papers and articles I've read, it's some seriously tough stuff!

Scratches and scrapes are one thing, but that wasn't what this was about. The issue here is the ease with which this material can be significantly gouged (for want of a better word) and while fair wear and tear is (like beauty) in the eye of the beholder, the plastics used are too soft and easily damaged.

Is that OK? Maybe - though I bet a dealer in 3 or 4 years when trading in will peer at this sort of damage with a very critical eye and mark the vehcile down in value as a result. But my point is that it takes very little effort to damage these components and Honda should have been able to discover that fact. Having discovered it, they could (and I believe in time will) replace the plastics with a harder forumulation that may scratch and scuff with use, will not gouge so easily.

I regard the use of the present material as being a basis for fair criticism in what is otherwise a superbly well executed design that shows great attention to detail.

Does anybody think that maybe the Element was put on the market "too fast"?
Don't most new cars make there appearance in the late summer/early fall of the year before? This came on the market at an odd time, so maybe they weren't quite ready for release when the actually released it.

[quote:593c36f750="za9ra22"]
I regard the use of the present material as being a basis for fair criticism in what is otherwise a superbly well executed design that shows great attention to detail.[/quote:593c36f750]

Maybe we're in violent agreement.

I agree (and who really cares that I do or don't) that the issue is a good topic of discussion and criticism. This may be mainly semantics, I just didn't (and don't) feel like it fits the 'design flaw' tag. Of course, a gouge is more significant than a scratch, and I may be underestimating the actual damage suffered by Cameraman.

Peace out,
-jdef

The plastics in my Element are definately more "scratchable" than the plastics in my wife's Saturn. I was just noticing today that the "thumbnail test" (on a out-of-the way area) on her car would result in a broken fingernail before a scratch. Sure wish Honda had used that formula.

After only a couple months, I have several scratches (door handle, door jams, cargo area) . None that bad, and none outside yet, but looking all around the Saturn, I found none, after a year now.

Russell
But, I still love my Element! And it's neat to have a unique car on the road (I see more Hummers than Elements!)