Have any of you experienced an occasional very loud whirring sound when backing? Not a bang, clank or a click, but loud howl and not the normal 5-speed reverse noise. My manual transmission AWD EXS does this about a third of the time I put it in reverse and start to back up. I originally thought it was popping out of gear and finally took it to the dealer Tues. morning. They kept it all day, but were never able to hear the sound. When I picked it up, they had me try to recreate the problem with a tech on board – but it worked perfectly.

Originally, as soon as I heard the sound, assuming it had popped out of gear, I would push in the clutch, move the shifter to neutral or pull it into 2nd, and then back into reverse. However, when I drove it yesterday morning, started to back up and it made the horrible sound - I stopped, but left the shifter where it was. I then let the clutch back out and found it was still in gear, but the sound stopped.

I called the dealer and explained this latest discovery, but they still had no idea what it is. They called Honda and were told they have to “witness” the problem 1st hand and weren’t familiar with the problem.

Is there something involved with the AWD in reverse different than the forward operation? I ask this because the sound, even as loud as it is, is hard to determine its source. But the sound seems to be to the back of the front seats and away from the transmission.

The sound reminds me of when the ABS would activate on my ’98 S-10. However, the brakes on the “E” have never been applied when this sound has been generated.

Jim

I have that same problem with my 4X4 EX model. Big difference is that mine is an automatic. So, whatever this noise is, it is not part and parcel to the clutch or transmission. But it is of varing duration, and sometimes doesn't happen (although it's getting more frequent in mine, and it started out very frequent.) I've had my E for 2 1/2 weeks, and nearly 2000 miles. My model is a 2003, so at first I thought it might be dusty/rusty brakes from not being used. However, it's only in reverse & I highly doubt it is the brakes now.

My roommate took it to the dealer this morning & they told him it's a known issue, and that their R&D department is "working on it."

I don't find this acceptable, as when I leave my house on a trip in the wee hours of the morning, I'm waking the entire neighborhood. Not to mention that my beloved orange E brings me loads of wanted attention... I don't need the unwanted style brought on by the intense howling/grinding noise when leaving a parking spot. The only good thing about that particular situation is that I'm leaving.

I'm disappointed with their answer, and in fact they told us to "live with it for a while." What's that supposed to accomplish? We have a follow-up appointment this coming Monday, if I find out anything more I will be sure to post it here. However, in the meantime, has anyone else had this issue?

--Rick

wow, i don't have that problem at all

but i am curious to hear what you find out!

good luck

After almost two weeks without any response, I was beginning to wonder if mine was the only one doing this. I was convinced for the longest time mine was popping out of gear because of the sound. Now, when it happens, I don't shove in the clutch and it eventually stops. Originally, it would happen within a foot or so of movement. The other day I moved almost 10' before it started and then quit before I stopped moving.

I couldn't replicate the sound for my dealer, but was able to make a movie w/ sound using our digital camera. I e-mailed it to the dealer a week ago and have yet to get a response. I did call to make sure the service manager received it. On "film" it sounds like someone sat on a whoopie cushion - they probably think I'm messing with them.

Rick, out of curiosity, does your noise seem to be coming from the rear of the car? It's hard for me to tell and thought possibly it's the emergency brakes???

In fact, we too had the idea of running a video of ours backing up. Haven't done so yet, as today was the day we got the obnoxious response from the dealer.

However, I'd gladly email to you the video we make if you would also be so kind as to share yours?

go to www.toycar.net and click on the "Rick" link... that will get to me.

In fact, today at the dealer, a girl said her sister had bought one, and it does the same thing... and is still to this day doing so. Again, with little or no help from the dealership. I hope we're the few, and with some pushing we get this taken care of. I love my element.

-Rick

Are you talking about that whirring sound it makes in reverse?
Sounds almost like an electric motor in action?
Kinda makes the Element feel like a big RC car, but one you can sit in......and drive.....er, without remote control. :oops:
The sounds doesn't bother me at all, infact I like it.

[quote:abbc23d2ce=" "]Are you talking about that whirring sound it makes in reverse?
Sounds almost like an electric motor in action?
Kinda makes the Element feel like a big RC car, but one you can sit in......and drive.....er, without remote control. :oops:
The sounds doesn't bother me at all, infact I like it.[/quote:abbc23d2ce]
I don't think that's it...My car makes that wizzing noise backing up, 5spd fwd, but not a howling noise. It made a yowling noise once, but that was the neighbor's cat. I always hated that cat.

Oh No. We certainly are not talking about the cute little wiz-noise.
I have had several cars make the cute little wiz-noise.
This is more like you just ran over a rhino and he's screaming his disdain in your general direction. It's horridly loud, certainly enough to make one wake up (even through walls of the brick home next door) and lasts varying timeframes. Sometimes it's real short, and sometimes it's much longer, but always stops before I stop backing up (unless I slam on the brakes & make the car stop, which of course also stops the sound).

The cute little wiz-noise continues after the rhino stops screaming.

The dealership is aware that it is a problem, they just don't know what.

-Rick

[quote:8919f9459c=" "]Oh No. We certainly are not talking about the cute little wiz-noise.
I have had several cars make the cute little wiz-noise.

...

The cute little wiz-noise continues after the rhino stops screaming.[/quote:8919f9459c]

Your other cars sing "Ease on down, ease on down the road?" :)

-brendan

[quote:f49236d99d=" "]Have any of you experienced an occasional very loud whirring sound when backing? Not a bang, clank or a click, but loud howl and not the normal 5-speed reverse noise.
<SNIP>[/quote:f49236d99d]

I don't know what the normal 5-speed reverse noise sounds like.
Mine's automatic. <SNIP>

Plus I'm legally deaf.


Ok not really, I just wanted to make you feel bad. :D

Now that was funny! Sorry about being so sensitive, but my dealer's 1st response was "reverse isn't synchronized" - meaning the sound is normal. Not only is the noise embarrassingly loud - there's also a vibration you can feel.

Yes, I have felt the vibration as well... and the more I pay attention to it, the more I think it's the brakes. Granted, my foot is on the brake pedal already, therefore if there is a vibration to be felt, that is most likely where I will feel it... however, that being said, I think the vibration in the pedal is greater than that of the floor. Thus leading me to believe it is in the brake system.

Also, My neighbor had this same problem with a Taurus Stationwagon (I have several problems with Taurus Stationwagons, but that's not for this discussion.) And he said after they replaced the rotors the sound cleared up. He also said they had turned his rotors and it didn't clear up, but I would suspect in that case they had only "said" they "turned his rotors"...

No, I'm not bitter when it comes to mechanics and the way they treat older folks & women. (Also a steriotype, but I've seen my mother treated in such a fasion by 10 different GM dealerships, so don't tell me that it never happens.)

</rant>

Ok, there is a point: Mongo Think it be Brakes.

-Rick

I've tried to make a conscious effort to apply the brakes and see if it affects the noise. But the sound quits before I think to or by the time I brake to stop. I'm must not very observant - I just now noticed you are also in Ohio. Do you know if your dealer has spoken with Honda? After coming to the realization my transmission wasn't popping out of gear and guessed it was brakes related, I guessed the sound would go away as things wore in. From what you're saying, it gets worse - not good Kimosabe.

test

My experience with it is still very short. I've only owned the car since May 29th. It currently has 2200 miles, give/take a few. So to definitively say it is getting worse or better is probably premature. However, it certainly doesn't seem to be getting better. and it's almost every time I back up. I did throw on the brakes this morning, and the sound only stopped once the vehicle came to a complete stop, not at the beginning of the stopping process. Not sure exactly sure what that means.

The dealer said that they know of the problem -- does this mean they talked to Honda about it? not sure. Like I said, we're going in to see the service manager on Monday, I plan on getting answers to those type of questions then. In the meantime, I certainly will try experimention & get me some scenarios to help narrow down the possibilities. (I'm a tech geek at heart, so troubleshooting is my forte.) Too bad I'm a tech geek, not a gear head.... ;)

-Rick

Rick-

The saga of the loud noise in reverse continues. My dealer called yesterday afternoon and said Honda told them the sound was possibly a result of an out of position left transmission mount and asked that my car be inspected. I set up an appointment for this morning, but expressed my feeling this couldn’t be the problem because it seems to be coming from the rear of the vehicle and sounds nothing like a mount rubbing. In preparation for the service, last evening my wife and I took another video of the dreaded sound, but from the outside this time. The noise is much louder outside or with the windows lowered.

When I arrived at the dealer this morning, video in hand, I gave the tech a run down on my experiences and thoughts as to the source of the sound. He agreed that Honda’s suggestion didn’t sound right considering my comments and agreed it was probably brake related. To appease Honda and rule out that possibility, he inspected the left transmission mount and dog ears, but everything checked out properly. He then inspected the rear brakes and disassembled the emergency brake assembly. Unlike “normal” 4-wheel disc brake cars that use a mechanical cam to actuate the brake pads, the Element, and I assume the new CR-V, have a small drum attached to the rotor.

When he got the drum off, there were significant tool marks on the inside surface. He felt these could easily be responsible for the sound because he’d previously run into a similar situation with an Odyssey (also drum emergency brake).

If your mechanics want to compare notes with my technician, please contact Ralph at College Hills Honda here in Wooster at 330/345-5200. Good luck and I’ll let you know if turning the emergency brake drums doesn’t work out.

Jim

Jim,
Thanks for that note!
I have an appointment with the service manager Monday morning. I will certainly print out your comment & take it with me.

This collaborates my findings. When I hear the sound & push the regular brakes the sound continues until the car stops. When I hear the sound & pull on the Emergency brake, the sound stops immediately.... following that line, I've been using the emergency brake as I start backing up (Yeah yeah, bad for it - only done this three times) and sure enough, no sound ever.

With my troubleshooting pointing me at the emergency brake but not the disc brakes, and your mechanic believing the same thing, I think we've STOPPED this problem. (Pun intended, but not so good.) :)

-Rick

Upon watching a particularly bad episode of “F Troop”, Smokey the Bear was heard to say “Remember, only you can prevent Forrest Tucker!”

In other words, the worst puns are the best puns - if that makes sense.

Jim

The normal whirring sound is what I call winding the rubber band up. The AWD rear pump is not supposed to engage while the E is in reverse (the shop manual say so). I bought a shop manual to understand how my Element works. I haven't experienced the problem and do't want to. Is it possible that AWD clutches are locking in? This would cause a lot more strain on the moving parts ecspecially when it is not supposed to happen. If it is the rear pump you may have a bad bleeder valve or something. Just a shot in the dark to think about.

I've not heard anything back to know how Rick made out, but the aforementioned repairs made to mine seem to have cured the problem......

<SNIP> He then inspected the rear brakes and disassembled the emergency brake assembly. Unlike “normal” 4-wheel disc brake cars that use a mechanical cam to actuate the brake pads, the Element, and I assume the new CR-V, have a small drum attached to the rotor.

When he got the drum off, there were significant tool marks on the inside surface. He felt these could easily be responsible for the sound because he’d previously run into a similar situation with an Odyssey (also drum emergency brake). <SNIP>

The tech also increased the freeplay in the emergency brake cable. The sound was extremely loud - you can't miss it and is nothing like the normal sound in reverse on a manual transmission.

Jim

Lets talk shots in the dark.

I'm not ticked yet... just mildly annoyed... But, here's what's happened.

I took my E in last Monday (As stated in prior posts) and they had it for nearly a full week, I was able to pick it up Friday evening. They had replaced the Struts. (Even though my diagnosis seems to point to the emergency brake fix.)

I picked it up last Saturday, and the grinding did not re-occur on Sat or Sunday. However, Monday as I was leaving work to go to lunch it happened, then again when I was leaving work for the day. And fairly regularly since. So, I have another appointment this coming Wed, as I'm out of town until then.

I still feel that it's the emergency brake/rotor, as it stops immediately if the E brake is pulled, but not if the regular brakes are pressed. Just my notion. :)

We'll see. But the Honda dealer (since their initial "can't you just live with it.") has been nothing but wonderful. I can say I was annoyed at how long it took, I can say I'm annoyed that it's not fixed yet. But they are trying, and they have been very accommodating.

This boggles my mind! When I went in the last time, the tech agreed wholeheartedly with me that the cause most likely was the emergency brakes. He went through Honda's suggestion just to cover that base in case our assumption was incorrect. He also recognized the symptoms from an earlier experience with an Odyssey. I strongly suggest your people call College Hills Honda in Wooster and discuss the situation with their technician Ralph @330-345-5200.

I will definitly print out your statements AGAIN and take it to them AGAIN, and hope they do so. :)

We shall see.

Thanks!
-Rick

Well, I went on a 1500+ mile trip this past week (Between appointments) and my howl has stopped... at least for the moment. Of course my followup appointment was today. And of course they will not be able to reproduce teh sound.

Hopefully it's just worn itself out... the E-Brake still works fine, so I'm not too worried. But at least I am able to use my appointment to get my first of hopfully Very Many oil changes (at 5000 miles.)

ah well. This might possibly be the end of my howl.... Might not. We'll see.

-Rick

I had hoped mine would go away on its own too, but became discouraged when the sound became more frequent w/ longer duration. One of the things to mine was increase the free-play in the emergency brake cable. I can see where a very light application of the brakes my cause this sound and your extended use may have resulted in more slack. I suppose there's a possibility your application of the emergency brake while in motion to suppress the sound may have burnished the drum linings too. In any event, I hope you are cured!

Jim

I absolutely love my Element except for that loud howling noise it makes in reverse! If they could figure out what that is and fix it, my element would be perfect. So far I've taken it to the dealer twice and the problem still exists.

If anyone finds out the cause of the problem, please let me know.

My E still isn't making the noise, I just picked it up from the shop.

However, as long as the howl is as described in this forum, it is most likely the emergency brakes. My repair guy asked me to get more info from Jim's repair guy & if it happens again, bring him said info.... like i hadn't already brought them the phone number & name of the guy or something.

But whatever. It's not currently happening, but it may reoccur, and if it does I'll do my best to sweet talk, or screem (their choice) them into replacing the E-Brake drum and/or pads and that should put my problem to rest for good.

Easy test to see if it is possibly this: (In my humble opinion anyway)
As the sound occurs hit the regular brakes and listen to see if the sound stops immediately or only once the car stops.
Then again as the sound occurs hit the emergency brake & see if the sound stops immediately or only after the car stops.

With mine, the sound stops immediately with the E-Brake but not the regular brakes thus pointing to the same problem with the emergency brakes that Jim seems to have had.

So while my issue is ongoing, I'm going to ignore it until it starts to reoccur.

-Rick

Wow. This sounds like the same thing that happens to me. I have an automatic AWD. I just hit 10,000 miles and took it in for a service check. I asked the dealer to look into the problem, but theire tech couldn't find anything wrong. The dealership told me that "phantom" problems are hard to figure out. Well so far my transmission isn't giving me any problems. But every so often, and only in reverse when i step on the accelerator backing out of my drive this "whirling/grinding" kind of noise appears.

[quote:004d5447fb=" "] Kayakin' Dan Wrote:
I don't think that's it...My car makes that wizzing noise backing up, 5spd fwd, but not a howling noise. It made a yowling noise once, but that was the neighbor's cat. I always hated that cat.[/quote:004d5447fb]

Hmm... very interesting suggestions here. I've not encountered this exact problem yet, but the good news is that i've learned that the neighbor's cat CAN make a distinct growling, howling noise whilst being run over with my tires! No wonder I had such a hard time cleaning the fenderwells when I washed my car!

Seriously though, I hope I never have to hit another cat... er... encounter this problem while I own my "E"!! Thanks for the tips, Kayakin' Dan! :D

(LEGO likes kitties, really! Insert "your least favorite animal" for the word "cat" if you like!)

It's been almost 60 days since the dealer turned the emergency brake drums and increased the cable free-play and the horrible sound is still gone - not even a whimper. The sound and the accompanying harmonic vibration certainly indicate it is a brake noise. In fact, it's similar to the sound wet rotors make sometimes when the brakes are 1st applied except 10 times louder.

Rick- if for any reason you lost my dealer info (I'm too lazy to check previous posts to see if I PM'd you), it's College Hills Honda in Wooster, OH 330-345-5200. The tech who did the diagnosis and repair is Ralph. He has hero status at our house!


Jim in soggy Ohio

Digging up an old thread here!

This "howl" occured in my 06 EX-P. It happened for about 2 months. At first thought it was because we got rain, rotors got wet, etc. AND it didn't happened everytime I reversed. Called dealer once, but I really thought it was because I had driven thru a puddle and they said to call back if it happened again and they would take a look.

Well, weather changed, no puddles at work, and it was still happening occassionally. Of course, always when the dealer was closed! And if I drove somewhere and then tried to reverse again it didn't make the noise.

I have been busy and haven't been around the boards much, but my roommate thought I took the side of the garage off one morning (my "howling sound" in action!) :shock: and she started lookin' on the net!

She found this thread and another. The other one had an Acura Service Tech respond about the parking brake cable needed stretched. She printed them out for me. I said "HEY, you found the EOC!" :) (sorry can't find exact thread this came from) So, I tried this. It did help the noise some, but the noise was still there.

So called the dealer that week and told them that the sound had happened again and what she had found on the net. They said bring her in and they would take a look.

Well, the service guy told the "cust. rep" that he stretched the parking brake by setting and releasing it. She told him, I had already done that. So he looked thru the manual and found the following. "When the parking brake is pulled up in the first position, the steering wheel should move freely back and forth." Mine wouldn't move AT ALL in either direction. He adjusted it and so far NO HOWL!!!! It also seems to drive a tad bit different. Smoother, maybe?

Someone said it might improve gas mileage a bit also, I don't know if that is true or not. I usually get 16-18 MPG city. But, I only drive a mile to work and mostly around town. Hwy MPG I have gotten 22-24. We are also in the "Ethanol" heartland.

Hope this might help someone if they are having a problem!

Kat

I wonder if most of us with the 5 speed E have had manual transmissions in the past, and are used to the longer throw of the shifter lever? I know occasionally I don't quite get mine all the way in to reverse when backing into my driveway, and it will pop out. The E does have that cute little short shifter arm, that all my first time, passengers comment on. :cool:

About the whine however, both my Elements (2003 and 2005) were/are manual trannys and both have a loud whine in reverse, so I figured it must be normal.:?

I wonder if most of us with the 5 speed E have had manual transmissions in the past, and are used to the longer throw of the shifter lever? I know occasionally I don't quite get mine all the way in to reverse when backing into my driveway, and it will pop out. The E does have that cute little short shifter arm, that all my first time, passengers comment on. :cool:

About the whine however, both my Elements (2003 and 2005) were/are manual trannys and both have a loud whine in reverse, so I figured it must be normal.:?
Fortunately, I've not had any problems in the 2,300ish miles I've had my '06, but I have to ask, LONGER throw? My E is the shortest throw factory manual I've driven, and is about half the throw of my '98 Mercury Mystique, and a shorter throw (by at least an inch) than my roommate's Cavalier with a short-throw shifter installed.