Since eMass' speaker thread has been so helpful to everyone, I was hoping to start the same thing here for wheels and tires. If an almighty mod could make this a sticky, that would be most appreciated ([Done -brendan]). If anyone has additional items they would like see listed in the boilerplate, please PM me and I would be happy to edit my post. Thanks in advance to all those participating since this will helps us all be more informed buyers.

Here is a boilerplate for those wishing to submit info.

Wheels
- Brand, Style (e.g Volks, TE37)
- Diameter, Width, Offset. (e.g. 16x6.5 +45)
- Weight (anyone know the stock wheel weight?)
- Store, Price, Shipping

Tires
- Brand, Style (e.g. Falken, ZE512)
- Size (e.g. 215/70-16)
- Store, Price, Shipping
- Review (e.g. Traction (Dry, Wet, Snow), Road Noise, Ride, Rubbing, etc.)

I'll throw in my $.02...

Wheels
Enkei RPF1
18" x 8" +35
17.8# ea. (The stock 16 X 6 riims weigh 20.5#)
Midwest Tire & Auto $275 ea.

Tires
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 245/45ZR18
Mr P's Tire $260 ea. (inlc. mount & balance)

This combination offers superb dry and wet traction. The ride is very smooth for this size. Much better than the BFG G-Force T/A's that I tried previously. I would recommend offset between 40 and 45 mm with this tire, but I have not had any rubbing problems. This combination makes the E handle like a sports car.

Wheels
- Stock EX 16x6

Tires
- Brand - Falken ZE512
- Size - 235/60/16
- Purchased from a local tire store in San Diego for $71 a tire
- Review - I only have about 1500 miles on these tires, but my initial reaction is extremely positive. The difference between these and the goodyears are night and day. Dry traction and handling have been greatly improved. They are very quiet, and no rubbing whatsoever. I'm not too sure about the wet traction, but I would be willing to bet that they would provide better traction than the worn goodyears. I have no idea about snow traction.

For someone that spends the majority of their driving on paved surfaces, this tire is an excellent upgrade. I have a 2wd 5speed, and have no intention of going off-road in my E. My goal was to improve handling and traction, without spending time and money on new wheels, suspension, alignments and so on. It takes quite a bit more effort to break the front tires loose now. On the worn goodyears, it was almost scary how quickly they would lose traction. Handling is much improved, and the car feels flatter through turns due to the lower profile and stiffer side walls. The squirmy soft sidewall on the goodyears made me feel unstable on twisty roads. By no means does the E handle like a sports car, but I definitely feel more comfortable during spirited driving. The ride is a bit more firm, but that could be attributed to the higher tire pressure. I'm running them at 36psi front, 38psi rear.

Why Falken? I have been very impressed with Falken tires. They make a quality product that performs excellent at a bargain price. I've been running Falken FK451's on my stage 2 WRX (285 crank hp), and must say that they have been one of the best performing street tires I've ever experienced. The price makes them all the better. Search on some other car forums, and read the positive reviews for yourself (nasioc.com , audiworld.com ). For what it's worth, Consumer Reports rated the ZE512 #1 in the high performance all season category (Not too sure about CR’s opinions, but the tires impressed them nonetheless). They also have a 60k mile treadwear warranty.

http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/falken1.jpg
http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/falken2.jpg
http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/falken3.jpg

Wheels: Stock EX 16x6 20.5#
Tires: BF Goodrich Long Trails 215/70/16
Purchased for $112 each from Big O Tires with lifetime rotation every 3k to 4k miles and free mounting and balancing.
They had a heck of a time getting the balancing right...took them three seperate tries. Bad vibraring steering wheel. Seems ok now.

Nice tire profile and highway rated for 75k miles.

I saw pics of your tire/wheel set and it is really beautiful. That said, you dropped serious change on that mod...BUT it does look great. Any problems in the balancing and alignment stage of install?

I am looking and gunmetal wheels in the 17 inch range. I am concerned about turning radius as I really like the way this little truck turns on a veritable dime!

Thanks for the input!

M

Had to replace a flat unrepairable Wrangler today and took it as a sign from the gods to just junk them all(have close to 20k on and was not happy with how they felt anyway). Picked up the Firestone Destination LE's in 225/70R16 for $400 including the road hazard warranty and an oil change. I was pressed for time so I didn't feel like heading to the dealer for it. Got it done at Tires Plus in Bryn Mawr (if anyone is local).

Liked the look of a more filled wheel well. Noticed a difference in the ride as soon as I got moving. Put about 30 miles on it after on the highway and stop and go. Much smoother, definitely quieter, handled a little tighter, and the steering seemed easier. Have it at 40/39 psi's front/rear which was the same I had the Wranglers at. Have a feeling the gods were right on this one.

Can post pics if no one else has yet.

I also changed to FireStein Destination LEs on EX alloys, 225/70-16.
I have since driven 10K on them and I am not as impressed.
Initially they were sloppy until I upped the air pressure to 38.
At Honda recommended 34, there was a split second delay between turning the steering wheel and the car actually turning.
THey are louder as well, especially when hauling buttocks on curvy roads.
Wet traction was very good venturing around when Richmond got flooded recently, and snow traction should be good as well.
I'm gonna have to try even higher pressure since dbpaddler is happy with it.
BTW, I only paid $290 for my set. 8)

With 40/39 psi, did the stock tires wear evenly? Some have speculated that the recomended pressures were too low, causing the the edges to wear faster. I suspect it is more a problem of perception, with shallow grooves on the edge tread, leading to an early appearance of edge baldness.

paulj

I called around to about 6 different stores to get that price. Two were nowhere close, the rest were all in that ballpark. And that's after sales tax too. No one was coming close to the $300 price rance and some were over $400. I personally don't care what is recommended for pressure. I just go with what drives well. I've put 17k mi on in about 7 months so I'm sure I'll rack up some more miles soon and give a better review than just my initial impression after a couple hundred miles. But running the pressure around 40 (max is listed at 44) seems to work best. I left the shop at 35 and drove for about 20 minutes thinking okay, it's quieter but it just doesn't feel right. Upped it to 40 and it was much better.

I also changed to FireStein Destination LEs on EX alloys, 225/70-16.
I have since driven 10K on them and I am not as impressed.
Initially they were sloppy until I upped the air pressure to 38.
At Honda recommended 34, there was a split second delay between turning the steering wheel and the car actually turning.
THey are louder as well, especially when hauling buttocks on curvy roads.
Wet traction was very good venturing around when Richmond got flooded recently, and snow traction should be good as well.
I'm gonna have to try even higher pressure since dbpaddler is happy with it.
BTW, I only paid $290 for my set. 8)

Kumho KH 11 235 60 R 16 100 W (load rating of 100, speed rating of W, good for sustained speeds of 168 MPH--something to shoot for). Treadwar 280, Traction AA, Temperature A. Purchased at Discount tire, Midway Drive, San Diego, CA, for $91 each mounted and balanced.

What a difference tires can make--I have a new car!

The difference is dramatic. The car carves through turns with confidence instead of wallowing unnervingly as the old tires hunted in vain to take a set. No more embarrassing squeal from the front tires when accelerating briskly from a stop--not even the inside front tire when accelerating and turning. What amazes me is that in addition to the improved handling, the ride is also better. Where I live, we have a lot of speed dips with sharp approach angles. They seem much more muted now with the new tires. Pretty good considering the shorter sidewalls. I wonder how the tire volume compares btwn 215/70/16 and 235/60/16? This may account for some of the simultaneous improvement in ride and handling. It would be interesting to test different tires of identical sizes for the truest comparison. The top of my car is now also 3/10 of an inch lower to the ground which further lowers the cG, in addition to the 1.7 inches lower from the Eibach springs (makes roofrack loading/unloading easier as well).

With tires, every distinct brand and model behaves differently, so I wouldn't generalize about any other tire in the same size or any other tire by the same manufacturer. Seems like every tire manufacturer out there has their share of good and bad tire models. For example, though the original equipment Wrangler HPs were dogs in retrospect, the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3s on my Porsche 911 are incredible. There are even several "Eagle F1" variants and generations with varying levels of performance.

By the tire size calculator at Miata.net, the difference in speed reading on the speedo is about 2%, so 60 mph indicated is 58.4 mph actual. I was given the name of a good speedo shop in downtown San Diego, so I plan to check that out (term speedo recalibration used loosely-it may even be a software thing.)

Still amazed by what a difference these tires make--you guys don't know what you are missing.

Granted my E has Eibach lowering springs, but turn in is so crisp and stable, this car is now a gas to drive through twisty stuff.

Instead of adding another tire topic, I thought I would try something novel and post here. (probably some reason I shouldn't....)

What are opinions or facts about putting on a 215/65-16 size set of tires on the Element? I stumbled across the Goodyear Assurance Triple Tread in this size, which has been a FANTASTIC tire on our Accord and it has a 740 tread rating and is "only" $120. This size would change the speedometer from 65mph to 63mph with a sidewall height shorter by .43 inch (-.85 inch diameter)

I am trying to find a good replacement for the Stock Wrangler tires which are leaving me less than impressed. I am looking for an ALL weather Northwest tire that will take me through all conditions and backroading, including occasional icey and snowy conditions which include getting to winter XC skiing on dicey back roads. But no SERIOUS "offroad".

I have been trying to track down the Nokian Wr's but finding a price and source has been more challenging than I thought. Sounds like they might be close to $200 each which is out of budget for me.

215/65/16 should work. It is 3% smaller than stock. The more common 'step down' sizes 235/60/16 and 225/60/16 are 2.7 and 4.4% smaller. People generally move to these sizes because they want wider and/or lower profile tires. But if this 215/65/16 size gives you a better tire it may be a good choice. I see from Tirerack this TripleTred also comes in 225/60/16. In Tirerack customer rating this tire is top in its category, though the sample size is still small.

paulj

Well this complicates things....
I found "Tire Factory" carries the Nokian WR in the STOCK Element 215/70-16 size, and they are only $117 INSTALLED. Rated for 50,000 miles. This is a tire with a history of glowing year round usage reviews

Goodyear Assurance Triple Tred go for $122 each, available only slightly undersize 215/65-16, rated for 75,000 miles....but no history yet as to how well they do year round...although its probably pretty good. No history as to if they actually last that long either.

I am tending toward staying with the stock size (I would like to go LARGER if anything) and the tried and true Nokian WR, and just see how they compare to the recently installed TripleTreds on our Accord.

Geez, going from not enough choices to too many. :roll:

Any opinions? Gut feelings?

I am sold on Nokian. You NEVER hear anything bad about the WR
for winter or summer use. I've got Hakka CQ's for winter and I will
either use WR's or Hakka CS for summer. The CS (commercial van
series) has gotten great reviews for year round use.
www.snowtire.info has it's 2004 reviews including the WR. You just
can't go wrong with them.

For those on a quest for GOOD tires on the STOCK alloy rims.....

I am not sure if its my befuddled brain from the really bad allergy attack I am having, or bait and switch at the tire place or an honest mistake.

I called to "special order" my Nokian WR tires for the Element from the only place that carries them, Tire Factory. $116 each was pricey but doable. I negotiated trade-in value for my current low mileage stock tires for a whopping $50 for the set, which is less than my usual place would have given me, but better than nothing. Then I ask something about the 215/70-16 size...and he replies "oh, you said 15 inch yesterday, the 16 inch costs more and is not available in your stock width". WTF??? I am staring at the piece of paper I used for notes the day before, with some size questions but ALL of the written down sizes say 16. That is one part I have NEVER mixed up...previously. But in the throes of allergies my brain has short circuited before. The Nokian WRs are only available in the 225 width for the Element stock size and cost $142 each. "Yikes" and then deadly silence on my end. Heck, I can get the well reviewed Michelin LTX for that price in that size. He finally came back with knocking it down to $132 each (installed)which is still more than I would have gone for, but I did cave in. They should be in by Friday. They BETTER be more effective than viagra at that price......

So.....Nokian WRs....NOT available in 215/70-16
Nokian WR ARE available in 225/70-16 for $142 each, installed price, through Tire Factory. ( the ONLY listed source in my area on the Nokian site)

I will post a pic soon after I get them. Although my Element will not be looking its "show" best with the weather we have been having.

I maybe should have raised a question yesterday about the Nokian WR size, since the company site does not include a 215/70/16.

http://www.nokiantires.com/newsite/tires_popup.cfm?id=17

There is 215/70/15 on the passenger version table, though the 235/60/16 would be a better choice (stock rim, a bit smaller diameter than stock tire).

235/60/16 is the largest in Nokian WR passenger listing, and 225/70/16 is smallest in the SUV listing. The SUV set may have a bit deeper tread (14/32 v 12/32), otherwise them may be same.

The shoulders of the WR appear to be sufficiently rounded so that there should little question of the 225/70 size fitting.

There was a thread on winter tires recently where the Nokian was discussed.

paulj

Seems Nokia is going to make a 215/70/16 size in the WR-SUV
soon. Date still to be announced. Maybe that's where your dealer
got confused. I've got CQ's in 215/75/16. OK clearance and it's
a commercial tire so that the sidewall's are a little stronger & stiffer.
I'll get you a web site for a good review of the "C" series of nokia
tires. They have good load rating and are rated to a max. of 70 psi.

Here's the site for tire discussion. http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/All_About_16-Wheels_And_The_CV_900.htm
Since the Westfalia VW van they talk about is about the
same wieght as the E, it's probable a valid disscusion for us.
Hey Honu, tried allergy shots???

They have good load rating and are rated to a max. of 70 psi.

For the CS tires the load rating is 114S, which translates to 2600 lb. I think, though, that that applies only when inflated to full pressure. I wonder how an Element would ride when the tires are inflated to 70 psi? Pretty hard I suspect. Would a CS tire at 35psi have a load rating closer to 2000 lb?

the WR SUV in similar size (225/70/16) has 103H rating, 1929 lb, problably at a pressure of 35 psi. That is typical for this size tire in the passenger/suv category. Given that the Element runs around 4000 lb, this is more than enough.

The H speed rating for the WR is higher than S rating, but both are well above any US speedlimit. (The CQ has a lower Q speed rating)

The CS tire appears to have squarer shoulders than the WR, though I don't know how that affects traction in various situations. Gaps between major tread blocks are larger, suggesting better mud performance. I wonder if the CS sidewalls are better protected against stones, something which could be important on rocky trails.

From the Nokian web site, it is the Hakkapeliitta SUV that is scheduled to come out in the 215/70/16 size about now.

paulj

Hope the Hakka SUVs are available in the US this winter - I gave up on them in Canada and went with another brand. Even though my E is not here yet, the supply of winter tires is pretty limited this year in the 205/70/16 size for some reason so I bought some other tires before they ran out. The Nokian rep that I spoke to had various reasons for the lack of supply (mostly factory capacity -they are building a new plant in Russia apparently but it is not on line yet).

Seems Nokia is going to make a 215/70/16 size in the WR-SUV
soon. Date still to be announced. Maybe that's where your dealer
got confused. ...

I had heard that same thing, so assumed the tire dealer knew what he was talking about and that they had come out with the 215/70-16 since I last checked.

From everything I have read, the 225/70-16 I put money down on to "special order" today should fit fine on the Element and only affect the speedometer by 65 indicated actually being 66.28, and with just .4 inch width added and only .27inch added to the height. I think I can live with that.

The Tire Factory guy didn't mention moving from his mistaken 15" quote to 16" moved me from passenger to SUV rating. If its true that the SUV tire has a bit more meat on the tread, I probably wouldn't have squawked QUITE so hard about his quote going from $117 to $142 a tire.

But at $142 I certainly would have given more thought to going with the Michelin LTX in that same size which gets rave reviews and is supposed to last about forever (according to the reviews). And I might even have considered downsizing to "tiny" size with the impressive Goodyear Assurance triple tred with its closest available size being 215/65-16...I am STILL not sure my "on the spot" decision was right to pass up that one at $122 a tire.(installed)

But the Nokian do seem to have Legendary status, so what the heck, why not splurge and taste the Legend for a change? And although the Triple Tred are GoodYear's stab at saving their tarnished reputation by coming out with something REALLY good for a change...they as yet don't have a full year of history on the market. Darn impressive in all but snow...haven't had a chance to check THAT yet with our Accord.

re: allergy shots. Been there, done that. Became allergic to the shots after a year or two. Long story there and tootled over to an ENT today in my Element to find out all sorts of bad news....Guess I will drown my sorrows by buying fancy tires. 8)

Wheels
- Stock EX 215/70-16

Tires
- Brand, Style: Nokian WR SUV
- Size: 225/70-16
- Wear rating is for 50,000 miles
- Features: tiny green button on side wall is supposed to tell if its icey out. huh? Tread compound is some silica super molecule or something.
- Store, Price, Shipping: Kirkland Tire Factory, $142 each "installed". bought at local shop, so no shipping, just a PILE of "extras" above "installed" They were FAST and courteous. Just ask about ALL the charges up front. ONLY Tire Factory is listed as "authorized dealers" on the Nokian site.

- Review (e.g. Traction (Dry, Wet, Snow), Road Noise, Ride, Rubbing, etc.)
1 sunny short drive so far. Can't really tell much difference in SIZE from the original size. But they look cooooool.
Corners like on rails, ride SILENT, feel cushy. (I am NOT a professional driver though, only a lead footed amateur that likes the hang tight on the corners.)
Doesn't FEEL any different when I shove my hand between strut and tire, maybe a TINY bit more crowded on width, but negligable.
Every review i have read says it only gets better as the weather turns to crud(wet OR snow OR ice). I noticed a few of the people working at the shop had these.

http://www.elementownersclub.com/uploads/files/NokianRear3-4.JPG _________________

4 nokian WR SUV tires....a pile of debt on my visa card.
BIG GRIN on my face as I drive...priceless.

Honu-Don't forget to give us a full review after you drive in winter weather!!
My Hakka CQ's are working well. Tire noise is actually less than the Wrangler's as you go over different types of road surfaces. All around road
noise is less except for a background snow-tire whine on certain surfaces.
It's not loud and barely noticable and only happens on about 20% of the
road surfaces. Braking in rain is reasonable. I drive slow so don't ask me
about cornering. There's plenty of clearance- probably enough to go to
225/75/16 ( these are 215/75/16 ). I'll give a full review after winter.

Canadian Tire Nokian WR review:

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/hl/nokian.htm

next best thing to owning two sets of tires :-)

... of 225/70-16 Hakkapeliitta SUVs, without studs, from tirefactory.net, for $139 each shipped. Will have to pay to have them mounted and balanced locally. (Found a set of four takeoff steelies from a local Honda dealer for $25 each, hooray!) The fellow at Tire Factory said 215s won't be available for a month at the very least. 225/70-16s are 1.98% bigger in diameter (0.55" / 14mm) and 0.4" (10mm, naturally) wider than stock. A snow should be narrower, if anything, but an extra half-inch shouldn't be a problem.

Will report after winter driving commences up my way, which should be pretty soon.

I live in San Diego and we got our first heavy rains a few weeks ago and my Element was hydroplaning all over the place. It was so bad that I felt unsafe driving it on wet roads. So this past weekend I replaced my tires. And they only had 10,000 miles on them. I got a set of Michelin LTX M/S SL tires and went one size up to 225/70/16. It made a HUGE difference. The Element now corners and takes curves a whole lot better even on dry roads and it stops better too. It rained some more this week and no more hydroplaning. It's also quieter. I'm really happy. These weren't cheap tires. I spent $630 at Discount Tire installed with a road hazard warranty, but I think it was worth every penny. They're rated to go 60,000 miles. I can't believe that Honda put such crappy tires on this vehicle. I'm going to send them a letter. Lisa

wow, i can hardly believe we have the same tires.

i was driving in four inches of fresh powder up in the sierras this weekend, and they stuck like glue.

and when i got down to bishop, it was raining hard, and they gripped the 395, at 75mph, very well.

maybe its different driving styles....

Which tires do you have? Could be driving style differences, but I don't think so. When it was raining and I was driving with the stock tires on the freeway at about 60 miles per hour or less I was sliding all over the road. I have read other posts on these Boards from people complaining about poor handling on wet roads. I'm assuming by your post that your good experiences were with the stock tires. Interesting to see such a difference in experiences.

The stock tires might be somewhat OK for the first couple thousand miles, until the shoulders go bald and you are driving on a couple inch width of good tread in the center. Those are called skis then, which CAN sometimes be AIMED. 8)

The Michelin LTX get GREAT reviews and the claims for mileage sound like you should easily EXCEED that 60,000 mile rating if you rotate religiously.

They are pricey, being almost the exact cost of the Nokian WR's. I almost switched to the LTX's when I found out the store "mis-heard" the size I asked for (that I carefully repeated at least 3 times) and the Nokians jumped from $116 to $142 each. But they did knock some off the price, and threw in some normal installation charges for free, so I went with the nokians THIS time, even though they will not last as long as the LTX...and I must admit the Nokians are darn nice, especially if you have to deal with snow. (although the Mich LTX seem to get a good snow rating too)

I notice you got the LTX in the 225/70-16 size. Is it just me or does the Element seem like it was made for THAT size and the 215 size was just an undersize "throw away" compromise? Of course you can go bigger too, but that seems to then crowd the struts. The 225's look nice and beefy but even leave plenty of room for tire chains and don't crowd the clearance.
Or maybe its just me, that finds that look "right"......

8)

yup, i am running three of the stock tires, plus one bridgestone deuler due to a blow out. i have about 14k on them, and they've been rotated once. one difference may be the load, as i had three people and gear, about 800 lbs total i'd guess, in the car on the way back to LA through the snow and rain. but she really stuck to the road.

as for the upgrades, i'm really looking forward to the swap, but i hope that i can get 30k from this set first! i like the look of those nokians, and am curious to see pics of the michelin's.

i too think that 225/70 is the ideal size for the element! fills out the wells a bit, gives an extra half inch of clearance, and yet still room for strut and snow chains.

One Bridgestone Dueler and 3 stock Element tires....Thats known as a unicycle.
:?
Just think what you could do with FOUR good tires!

You are really running one oddball tire??!!

I can't think of a single socially acceptable thing I could say about THAT... :roll:

i don't actually think much of the deuler, certainly no more than of the stocks.

i would love to change out all four, of course, but the deuler was an emergency replacement after a blowout in the middle of utah, so not a lot of choice on my part went in to picking it. in fact, i was very happy to find a 215/70/16 at the fifth place i went while driving around on the donut.

that said, i'm looking forward to some better shoes for the e in a year or so.

(if you want to swap my mixed set for those snazzy nokians, i can swing by and do the exchange anytime!)

I have to get some new meat for my element tommorow. Took it in to have a leak patched and it turns out the it is a sidewall tear. Anyway, 2 tires would cost just over 500 cnd. Then the guy says that its an all wheel drive so I need to buy 4. I know that this is BS but we run the numbers because I know that I want bigger tires anyway. turns out if I buy 4 225/75/R16 it is just over 600 cnd because it is a popular size.

So my question is has anyone here that has put on this size and what do you think of them? I am a littel worried that they may rub. (If they do we will know before I leave the shop and I can exchange them.

bone

I think someone has/or will put BFG A/Ts on in the 225 75 16 tire size so it might be possible. Why not go for the 225 70 16 size that many others here have used successfully? BTW what make and model of tire are you going to put on?

Mike.

I can't remember the make but there model is Venture, the 75s will give me an extra 1.6 inch hight


bone

Big ass Meat

I got em and they look great. I'll post some pic later today

Bone:grin:

have you (or could you please) taken a bunch of tight corners in both directions, and go over some speed bumps (or down a rough dirt road!).

225/70/16 is 2% bigger than stock, no reported problems
235/70/16 is 4% bigger than stock, and a few people have reported some rubbing on the struts towers and/or the fenders, depending on tread pattern

i'm really curious if yours, 225/75/16, which are 5.2% bigger, clear while manouvering, which would imply that the problem with the 235/70 is width, not hieght.

At least for some models of tire, the 225/75/16 size has a narrower tread width than 215/70/16 size, and as much as a full inch narrower than the 235/70/16 size. Since only a few brands list tread width along with section with, I would use caution when generalizing from this. However it is certainly possible that a taller but narrower 225/75 tire could clear the curved strut tower better than a 235/70.

For several Cooper models the tread widths are:
215/70/16 7.2"
225/70/16 7.0 (yes narrower than stock!)
235/70/16 7.4
225/75/16 6.4

If I understand the suspension correctly, the tire moves up and down with the strut tower, but rotates relative to the tower on turning. I don't know where, or during what motion, the knobby 235/70/16 tires rubbed.

Another thing to be aware of when looking at tire specs, the measured rim width may vary with size. A BFGoodrich spec table has a footnote that
"Section width varies approximately 0.2” (5mm) for every 0.5” change in rim width." Tread width may not vary with rim width.

So a 225/75/16 with 8.8" section width on 6" would be 9" on 6.5", while 235/70/16 with 9.5 section width on 7 would be 9.3 on 6.5". 215/70/16 section width is 8.7 on 6.5 (all numbers for TA/KO).

paulj

I will try to post a pic tommorow. But so far I have no rubbing or problems. I tried turning hard while breaking and I took it up my rear driveway that is dirt and raised up the lane a few inches. So far, so good.

Bone

Hi guys and thanks for all the info that I have been sucking up since I found this board and my element about three weeks ago. On the advice of Honi and others I ditched my OEM tires for the Nokian WR 225/70/16 yesterday and am feeling pretty stoked for any weather that the pacific northwest can throw at me.Kal tire has the exclusive for Canada and were selling them for 160.95 a pop.Because my stock skins were new I got 60 bucks each which really helped to make it affordable at $101 per tire . The smoke cleared at $533 CAN> including tax. Tire rotation for life,flat repair and 100,000 KM. warranty.
Two hours after getting them I picked up a friend who was visiting town .This friend is a former winner of 4x4 magazine offroad vehicle of the year and has a monster trophy and front page article to prove it.When I chirped the tires on a very rainy Vancouver night he got very interested in buying the tires for his new Tahoe. These baby's have lots of stick!
I paid the extra to get the all wheel drive auto and with these tires and the constant rain I am loving blowing the doors off everything on the road; at least till the pavement dries up. I have never driven on wet pavement with such a lack of slippage on full throttle starts . It was good with the Wranglers but mind boggling with the Nokians paired with the AWD.A big consideration for me was the severe weather rating and the versatility of all year use. This is my first all wheel drive vehicle and I wanted the security of being able to drive in all kinds of conditions. Although we get very little snow in Vancouver there is lots of it a short drive away and they won't turn you back with the snow flake and mountain on the side.
Once more thanks too all members for sharing their tips (love the eagle wax as you dry) and a hearty endorsement of the Nokian WR as a great tire. Those posted photos Honi did it for me.

Just hit 4,200 miles on my Element about the same time LA got hit with another drizzle storm. The stock Wranglers were like riding on a sea of marbles in the dry, but they are downright dangerous in the wet (I have 2wd). Anyway, thanks to everyone for the great info on this thread - I've followed the lead of Tom Schibler and ordered a set of Kumho KH11's (235/60/16) today from the TireRack.

Can't wait to have these swapped onto the Element! Will report soon.

Hi, all,

Thanks for all the tire info. I have been reading for a while, without joining in, but I wanted both to thank you all and offer more info.

In a large part because of HONU's posts ("HI, neighbor!), I researched the Nokians and bought a set from Kirkland, also. My E has about 7900mi on it so far, and I didn't argue with their offer of $25/tire for the stock Goodyears. I thought the stock tires were very wimpy. Actually, they did fine over Chinook Pass last weekend while in a few inches of snow over old snow and ice, during a blizzard, but I didn't like the looks of them anyhow. I really go places and safety is a concern.

When I drove back over the floating bridge this afternoon, in the wind and downpouring rain of Seattle, wearing my New Nokian WRs, it felt as if the tires had suction cups on them. No kidding. At the Tire Factory, they told me that the Wisconsin State Patrol uses these very same tires, which made me feel pretty secure.

I will check for mileage economy effects, although I seem to do better than most. I drove to Yellowstone/Tetons this September with a passenger and all our stuff, and consistently got over 30mpg with cruise control. I am very happily surprised with the fuel economy I am getting, as the official stats weren't good enough.

NOTE: I did an experiment with brands. With Chevron, I am getting 30+mpg hwy. With ARCO, which averages ~$0.15/gal less, I get nearly 10mpg LESS! Two other friends, independently testing, got similar results. It's worth it to pay more for good gas.

I will be driving into the mountains a lot, both in winter, and over rough logging roads in the drier season, and I will report on how it goes.

Thanks again for all the info!

Just installed a set of new Nokian Vatiiva's this week. These tires seem
to be identical to the WR's except half the tread (longitudinally) is reversed.
This makes the tire omnidirectional--can be mounted either way.
So far I can say one word about these tires--QUIET QUIET QUIET
I guess that's three words. We have had some rain & like every one says
about the WR's, it feels like suction cups on. I can say they aren't that
great in mud. Not terrible but not great. Since I have the Nokian CQ's just
for winter, I may not find out how these do in snow. Maybe I'll leave them
on for our first good snow & then change over to the CQ's & do a side by
side test. Just looking at the tread, they should do fine in the snow just
like the WR's. I'll let you know later about any mileage changes later

Hi: I got the Nokian WRs. I used them last year and just put them on again. They grip well in the snow and wet but ride harsh at highway speeds. On my first ride to Toronto with them this year it seemed as though the expansion joints on the QEW grew an inch or two since my last trip. If you want smoooth highway cruising probably not the right tire for you.

Cheers!

I posted this as a seperate thread but only got one response. Anyone using Honda Pilot Wheels w/ Goodyear Integrety(sp) 235/70/16 tires. I seem to remember seeing a picture of someones Element with them.
thanks for looking-Josh

I currently use GY Integritys - but in the 225 width on DX rims. What do you need to know? I believe several people have used Pilot steel wheels, particularly Canadians seeking steel wheels for their winter tires. Most people have found 235/70/16 tires fit ok - I believe only the aggresive tread of the BFG TA KO has been a problem. So the soft shoulder Integrity shouldn't have problems in this size.

Since the Integrity is another OEM tire, you probably won't find anyone praising it - not sexy enough to catch anyone's attention. However I am the resident skeptic when it comes to identifying performance difference in tires.

paulj

Kumho KH11's (235/60/16) were dropped shipped by the Tire Rack and my local installer swapped out my stock tires last Friday. After spending this last weekend with them (dry in LA, no rain), I am happy to report that I may have come across the single best "bang-for-your-buck" upgrade you can do to your E! (BTW, tires cost $270 including delivery + $73 to install).

Observation #1: On dry surface at all speeds, including sustained 80mph, these things are MUCH more quiet than the Wranglers. Wind noise is now more prevalent than tire whine at speed.

#2: High speed stability is vastly improved. Tram-lining is nearly gone and the suspension actually has a chance to work correctly. The E feels planted on the highway vs. the previously queasy feeling. Highway cruising is pleasant with a sport-sedan like feel. Road feel is great.

#3: The E now takes a much better set in fast sweepers. The stiffer sidewall keeps the rims over the rubber in turns and I now feel very confident should I need to correct my line in the turn. Again, the suspension is allowed to work as designed, and the tippy feeling is drastically reduced.

#4: Tried a few hard stops. E felt much more composed and ABS was not activated. I'm pretty sure ABS would have come on with the Wranglers.

#5: Looks beefier from behind with a slightly bulldog stance. The extra width pushes the tires out closer to the edge of the car. From the side, the wheel well gap looks indistinguishable from stock, even though new tires are about 3/4 inch smaller in diameter. Much cooler than the ice-skate look of the stock tires.

Haven't been able to test in the rain yet, but from what Owen at the Tire Rack says, the Kumho's should be fine. Maybe not good enough for those of you in the wetter climes, but I'm very confident I'll be pleased here in SoCal.

Finally, besides the up-front cost of replacing the stock tires, I am expecting to only get about 30k miles out of these tires (again based on my conversation with TR). IMO, a small price to pay to make the E a faster and safer vehicle. Good luck!
Jon

Glad the KH 11s are working out for you. I have had mine for two months now and still love them. My mother in law, who had previously found the E's ride a bit bouncy, commented that the car felt smoother. I can also report that these tires do pretty well in light snow, as I recently encountered about 20 miles of wet snow coming through the mountains east of San Diego at about 4000 ft elevation, no issues what so ever.

Wild Country XRT 225-70-16.

A little knobbier than stock, thank god, and seem to be running quite well. I got to drive them in the snow and slush and the hooked up great. I also got to drive them in some mud getting our x-mas tree and my rig just chugged along, until I gased it a bit :grin: and had to get the hose out. I pick them up at VIP tires here in NH and paid less than $350.00.

I finally got rid of my awful Wrangler's today. They had 22,500 miles on them and where on there last legs.

Wheels: Stock 16"

Tires: Continental ContiTouringContact CH95
Size: 235/60/16
Purchased: TirePlus $410 incl. tax, mount and balance.

So far they feel good not great but good, very stable. Feel fantastic at any speed over 65 miles an hour. Definatly handles beter than the Wranglers and they are quieter. And I like the wider look of the tire. The steering feels a little stiffer but that's probably because the tire is wider.

check my tires @ my element site posted below

Attached is a photo of a drawing I just made of a tire cross section (Goodyear Integrity 225/70/16) and the front strut tower. I took the outlines by carving a piece of foam to fit in the gap. I have added lines suggesting how various size tires might interact with the strut tower if they had square shoulders. The horizontal dashed lines are the approximate tire height for 215/70/16, 225/70/16, 235/70/16 and 225/75/16 tires. The vertical dashed lines are for 6 and 7" tread widths.

Note numbers like 225 and 235 are nominal section width, that is, the widest point of the tire. Tire specs tables list this width along with the corresponding wheel width. Mounting the tire on a different size wheel will change this maximum width.

Only a few brands of tires list a 'tread width'. Bridgestone for example gives 6.9" as the tread width for the popular 235/70/16 Revo. A BFG TA KO in the same size is likely to have a width similar to that of the 235/75/15, which I measured at 7.5" (Sears floor model). The treadwidth on the stock Wrangler HP is probably less than 6".

I may replace this image with a better scan.

paulj

Here's a photo of roughly the same area between strut tower and tire.

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=215&stc=1

Here's a photo of roughly the same area between strut tower and tire.

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=215&stc=1

What size and brand tire is this ? Looks like you have no rubbing problems at all if you can put snowchains on.

LittleDogBox
Arlington, Va.

What size and brand tire is this ? Looks like you have no rubbing problems at all if you can put snowchains on.

LittleDogBox
Arlington, Va.

Never mind.....I see it's the Goodyear Integrity.

LittleDogBox
Arlington, Va.

Attached is a photo of a drawing I just made of a tire cross section (Goodyear Integrity 225/70/16) and the front strut tower. I took the outlines by carving a piece of foam to fit in the gap. I have added lines suggesting how various size tires might interact with the strut tower if they had square shoulders. The horizontal dashed lines are the approximate tire height for 215/70/16, 225/70/16, 235/70/16 and 225/75/16 tires. The vertical dashed lines are for 6 and 7" tread widths.

Note numbers like 225 and 235 are nominal section width, that is, the widest point of the tire. Tire specs tables list this width along with the corresponding wheel width. Mounting the tire on a different size wheel will change this maximum width.

Only a few brands of tires list a 'tread width'. Bridgestone for example gives 6.9" as the tread width for the popular 235/70/16 Revo. A BFG TA KO in the same size is likely to have a width similar to that of the 235/75/15, which I measured at 7.5" (Sears floor model). The treadwidth on the stock Wrangler HP is probably less than 6".

I may replace this image with a better scan.

paulj

I am impressed with all the research you did. It is so frustrating to shop for a wider tire as it appears that what I want is not available except in perhaps only one brand,the Bridgestone Dueler ( which I have been talked out of, the dealer said they won't hold up for long ). I would be happy if I could get 235/70/16's on the Element since the 235/65/16's are pretty much out of the question. But it sounds risky and if it ends up rubbing I will have to take them off and start over. Looks like I will have to go with the 225/70/16's like most everyone else here. Not as wide as the 235's and thats what I really wanted.

LittleDogBox
Arlington, Va.

I called my Honda dealer and they do not recommend 235's on the E at all. I know they are not exactly a god-authority, but I wonder about the impact on struts, steering rods etc if you go bigger than is recommended.

- Cooper, Discoverer ATR
- 225/70/16
- Factory Direct Tires, Mountlake Terrace, WA, $95 with mount

http://www.coopertires.com.au/news/atr.htm
http://www.coopertires.com.au/tyres/atr.htm
http://www.coopertire.com/us/en/ProductDetails.asp?ProdType=SUV&id=257&title=SUV+Tires

At 16,000 miles I replaced the Wrangler HPs with lightly-used GY Integritys (OEM tire for Pilot and other cars, for $100 the set); now at 22,000, after much debate on these forums, I've settled on the Cooper ATRs. These are an updated version of the Cooper AT, with a tread designed for better water evacuation. In overall pattern it resembles a nondirectional version of the Nokian WR that several other Element owners have bought. The degree of siping is moderate. UTQG is 500 AB.

Despite a more aggresive tread, noise is not noticibly different from the Integritys (which are about as 'car like' as you can get in this size). There is some vibration in the steering wheel which may not have been there before.

Since I am not a hard driver, the previous tires did not have obvious deficiencies. The new ones performed every bit as well. I had to drive into the Cascade foothills (above Duval) to find some snow and ice - the new tires gripped as well as any that I've driven. However I've never used true snow tires or studded tires. I did not find any puddles to test for hydroplaning. By the end of an afternoon's drive on some of my favorite riverside roads, the tires felt very comfortable and predicable in their handling.

The shoulders of the ATRs are much squarer than the HPs or Integritys, with a tread width of almost 7 1/4". Strut tower clearance was still good. When turned, I could still fit my fingers between the tire edge and the vertical fin at the back of the front wheel well. I could not have gone larger with this model of tire (a 235/70/16 if offered would have barely cleared). I haven't tried chains yet, though with this tread I probably wouldn't ever need them.

paulj

p.s. On slow speed turns the steering feels stiffer. That is not surprising given the wider tread with grooves extending all the way out.

On further driving I'm finding that this stiffness depends on tire pressure. Above 37 psi (more or less, front tires) the tread edges start to lift off the ground, reducing their drag on turning. In other words, the shoulder tread on these tires is coarse enough that whether it is in contact with ground or not makes a noticeable difference in handling and noise. I suspect other square shoulder tires like BFG KOs exhibit this behavior.

Does anyone have any thoughts on running 225/65/17s? I noticed that Toyota has options for the Highlander which base comes with 225/70/16s but the option is 225/65/17s.

The overall tire diameter is practically the same (.05 x 225mm = 1/2"), so fit should be fine. Only problem the model selection doesn't look very good. Any idea what tire is being offered in this size with the Highlander?

paulj

Michelin Energy LX4 225/65/17 101S on the Highlander.

The Michelin Energy LX4 is one of 2 in this size that Tirerack lists. The other is the GY Integrity, which Honda puts on the Pilot. The LX4 is surprisingly inexpensive for a Michelin. Apart from Michelin's name brand reputation, these two tires look quite similar. Both are 'All-Season' - quiet riding, 'large-car' tires, with no off-road pretense.

Curiously the GY Integrity has 50,000 treadwear warranty. The LX4 has none, though the UTQGs are similar.

I'm guessing it is used on the Highlander to give a quiet, smooth ride, with just a hint of the trendy large wheel look.

I just finished putting 6000 miles on a set of Integritys (225/70/16). I suspect a lot of 'average' Element owners would be happier with them than with the HPs.

paulj

Close to where I parked in the mall the other day, I saw an Element with

Cooper Discoverer M+S
215/70/16 size
http://www.coopertire.com/us/en/ProductDetails.asp?ProdType=SUV&id=206&title=SUV+Tires

This is Cooper's current winter SUV/light Truck tire. I've gotten mixed messages about how long wearing it is - some make it sound like it wears well enough to use year around, not just winter. If you can't afford a Nokian for serious winter use, this looks like a good alternative.

paulj

I'm now very concerned about the 235/60/16's I just put on my SOP. I have heard that it is not good to put 235's on the E. Why would that be? And what possible damage could it cause? They ride great and do not rub.

What do you guy's think about larger tires on the E?

235/60/16 isn't larger than stock, at least not in diameter (less then 3% smaller). It is a bit wider, but that is not big deal if there is no rubbing. It is the alternative 'performance' size for Toyota RAV4, which they do change in any manner except possibly recalibrate the speedometer.

The previous post by DOGBOX about 235s probably was about 235/70/16 tires, which are 4% larger than stock. They are also about as large as you can go without rubbing. A number owners have been using this larger size, without reporting any problems. Nor have I seen problems attributed to slightly smaller sizes.

paulj

I just had my new Geolanders 225/70/16's installed a couple of weeks ago. They ride great around town and around 55 mph. However on a long trip yesterday I cranked the speed up to 65 - 70 mph and noticed some vibration in the steering wheel and in my seat. I realized there is quite a bit more tread on these tires and was wondering if this may be what is causing this.
I may take it back to the installer to make sure it hasn't thrown a balancing weight or the alignment they did was done right. I have no other complaints, they are quite and stick to the road like glue. The Element seems to track straight, no pulling to the left or right. Just this persistent buzz or vibration coming through the steering and seat. I was so used to riding around on those bald stock Wranglers I guess it's weird to actually have tread now.
Would like to know what other Geolanders owners experiences are.

LittleDogBox
Arlington, Va.

A search on 'geolander' turned up this thread on loud Geolanders. You didn't specify which model. 051?

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9224&highlight=geolander

I'm feeling a bit extra vibration in the steering wheel with my new Coopers, mainly around 40mph. It's similar to the vibration I would feel on a coarse asphalt pavement (chip seal type). I attribute it entirely to tread.

A search on 'geolander' turned up this thread on loud Geolanders. You didn't specify which model. 051?

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9224&highlight=geolander

I'm feeling a bit extra vibration in the steering wheel with my new Coopers, mainly around 40mph. It's similar to the vibration I would feel on a coarse asphalt pavement (chip seal type). I attribute it entirely to tread.


To be honest I don't know if they are 051's. I will find out though. I just know they are the Geolander H/T-S model.
That is all it says on the service receipt. There is a lot of tread on the outer edge of the tires and very deep grooves throughout. It's not an offroad tire but an allweather type. They have a 60,000 mile warranty which is good. Guess I will just have to break them in. Like I said, it's only obvious at high speeds, over 65. They are perfectly quite to me, I don't hear the Woooooooooo sound that was mentioned. Perhaps I am only feeling the Wooooooooooooo and am tone deaf. It's probably the dash rattle that I could never get rid of that drowns it out. Heeeheeee. I think with such a short wheelbase and being such a light little truck I shouldn't expect it to drive like a Cadillac. If there is some imperfection in the tires though I would expect them to replace one or all if neccessary. Hopefully this is not the case and it's just a matter of breaking them in. It's good to know what others are experiencing as it helps me decide what action to take if any.

LittleDogBox
Arlington, Va.

I looked them up on Tirerack. Yoko has only one model in this size 225/70/16.

Hi. Today after much debate on which tire to chose for my 2wd Element, the choice came down to either Khumo KH11 in 235/60-16 or Yokohama Geolander HT-S 051 in 225/70-16. I just bought my Element in October. Before I had a 2004 Mazda3 5-Door standard tire is a 205/50-17. I found the stock Goodyear RS-A 205/50-17 to ride rough, follow every rain groove on cement, and be poor in the rain. So I tried the Khumo KH11 in a oversize 215/50-17, and everything improved. Dry, wet, braking, ride, noise, visually looked better as they filled the wheelwells better. So in summary, while very happy with the Khumo KH11 , extra width & height of the Yokohama Geolanders in 225/70-16 seems to be the way for me to go. I had them installed today, and WOW what a improvment.Better ride, cornering grip improved, and looks good. I would like to say thank you to everyone for their very helpful info. It sure helped me, Thanks. Andy.

Hello everyone,

I might be changing my tires on my 04 E. i have not decided yet. the tires i have been looking at are the BFgoodrich a/t ko or the michelin ltx m/s. both in the 225/70/16. im looking for a great all around tire for the dry, wet, and snow that we are getting plenty of tonight and also a tire that is not too noisy. i would love to hear everyone's opinion of these tires if you have any experiences with them. thanks again

Robert

The KO's snow traction is bound to be better, but I suspect you are taking a big chance regarding noise. Check the 'gallery' on hondaelement.org for a long standing thread on these 'BFG's. Nauj'E' doesn't think they are too noisy, but your criteria might different than his. KOs aren't too noisy according to the tirerack reviews, but remember that they are being compared to other AT tires; take care in comparing those ratings to ratings for 'highway all season' tires.

paulj

paulj,

I just read the thread on hondaelement.org and what i get from it is that the noise is not that much louder than stock. most of the noise come before you get to highway speed and when you are slowing down to a stoplight. they really do look nice on the e though. i would still like to get some info on the michelin ltx m/s if anyone has them on their e.

Robert

I recently got AT category tires, Cooper Discoverer ATR, and have found that noise is most noticeable around 40 mph. At slower speeds tread 'noise' is felt rather than heard. It is possible that at higher speeds wind noise masks tread noise. I also found that tire pressures make a difference. The more contact that the shoulders make with the pavement, the greater the noise and resistance to turning. On low speed turns I can almost feel and hear the edge tread being dragged across the pavement. Higher pressures shift more load to the center tread, which in my case includes a continuous center rib.

The tread on the KOs appears to be as coarse and wide as my ATRs. The tread design on the KOs is unique, consisting of the interlocking 'C's, a feature which may cut noise some, compared to other AT tires. But the shoulders are as square as mine, if not more so. So it is hard to imagine the shoulders producing less noise.

On the tirerack customer survey, the KOs get 7.9 for noise, same as the LTX A/T. Michelin ranks the A/T at a 8 v 9 for the m/s in noise. In the tirerack 'highway allseason' table, the ltx m/s gets 8.4, wrangler hp 6.3, and BFG Longtrail 8.0. BFG gives the Longtrail a 9 noise ranking v. 7 for the KOs. It is clear than the Michelin m/s is quieter than the KOs, but it may well be that the KOs are similar in noise to new HPs. Worn HPs are probably quieter.

Did a search on 'LTX*' turn up anything on the Michelins? I'm pretty sure several people have got them. There are several LTX models, but only one in this size.

If your 2 top concerns are snow traction and noise, the Bridgestone Revo might be a better choice. You have to go up to 235 in section width, though tread width is likely to the same or less with the Revos compared to the KOs.

paulj

Questions: If I go to a 225/70/16 will there be clearence for snow chains for my 2wd? Since it's smaller in width?
And Cooper makes PepBoys Futura tires. Is there and equivlant at PepBoys for the Cooper?

Can't wait to get rid of the stock GY Wrangless junks.

I just put on a set of BFGoodrich AT KO's in 225/70/16 today. These tires came standard on my '03 Ranger FX4 L2 so I had some experience with them previously and knew how well they did in the mud, and how decently the did in the snow (Maine) and how livable they are on the highway. As you can tell by the tread this is an aggressive off-road tire, with supposedly decent on-road charcteristics, if you believe the marketing hoop-la. One thing they do, do awesomely is in the looks department.

Right now I'm running them at stock PSI settings, so take it from that perspective because I will be testing out different settings. First impression is a loss of immediate steering feel in turning, the ride is a little more stiffer, the steering wheel seems more sensitive to road irregularities, and the noise is unbelievable higher than the stock tires. Deep snow and slush traction is amazing (Connecticut). The handling as expected is not as responsive, it doesn't mean that the new tires don't hold well, it just means as you should expect going from a highway tire to an off-road tire, that you are loosing some characteristics and gaining in other areas. I did notice a lot of vibrations on the back roads in Connecticut and I know for sure it is not the balancing job, because I'm friends with the guy who installed them and he did the balancing down to the gram, so these things are perfectly balanced.

With these tires, the 'E' rides and drives more like a truck, specifically it really reminded me of my Ranger FX4 L2 (remember the KO's where stock on that vehicle). For me this is good, but for most people, I don't think they are willing to put up with what they would think as negatives for better mud and snow traction. I plan on using these tires only for winter and summer semi-off-road. I suspected what the trade-offs would be in putting these tires on the 'E' and so far I'm pretty much right.

I definetely noticed a lot more tire noise with these tires, I'm sure it won't be as noticeable when I get used to them.

I had 23K miles (in 8 months) on the stock Wrangler HPs and they have served me well, and still have a little bit more life in them. I was surpised how well the stock tires did in the snow (CT) there was always a little slip, but when the awd kicked in things straightened out just fine.

My suggestion, if you want your 'E' to drive like a car, stick with highway/performance all-season tires. If your willing to put up with the trade-offs and actually need a serious tire for mud and snow and want the looks, go with a dedicated off-road tire.

I'll post pictures tomorrow, but the KO's sure do look nice on the 'E'. I've already received several compliments from non-E owners who noticed that I changed out the tires right away. I did mount the white lettering on the inside as i don't like to pay for things and advertise for others. The tires aren't directional and there was nothing on them or the litterature saying they had to mounted with the white lettering face out, so I don't think that will be any issue.
I'll report back, once I put some good mileage on them.

Questions: If I go to a 225/70/16 will there be clearence for snow chains for my 2wd? Since it's smaller in width?
.

225/70/16 in a soft shoulder Integrity does have room for chains, including a close fitting link style. I posted a picture on one of the chains threads. I have not tried my chains on my square shoulder Cooper ATRs yet.

paulj

I bought the Yokohama Geolandar GS-051 on tirerack for $380 shipped, in a P225-70-16. Had 'em put on at Discount tire and I had them siped (mounting, lifetime rotation and balancing set me back another $100). I highly recommend siping, as it definitely improves the snow traction and may extend wear life. I've just rotated them after 5K and they look barely worn. The oe Wrangler HP's suck - I went through 3 sets of them in yes, believe it or not, 28K miles (I was buying them as take offs for cheap). Up here in the San Bernardino mtns, my experience is that I get half the warranty life out of a set of tires. I've never gotten more than 30K, even out of high buck Michelin's on a FWD car. My element is AWD. I will report further on the life of these, but I'm very happy with them so far. No Wooooo sound here, and they hold the road like riding on rails. No balancing problems either, though after all I read I bought lifetime balancing.

Thanks...my plan is to get the Michelin 225/70/16 from Sam's. Took the E to a used tire place and ask what they would give me for the Goodyears...6 bucks a piece! Maybe that's what they're worth??

I've bought slightly used tires for as low as $25 each, mounted.

The used tire place I went to said the 215/70/16 is an odd size and the Element is the only one using that size. True? That's why the low price for the Goodyears.

The Element is not the only one using that size; RAV4 has had it for years; Escape had it for a while (maybe not now). Still, it is a relatively rare size. You can get an idea of that by comparing the number models in that size offered by a shop like Tirerack. 23 for 215/70/16, 27 for 225/70/16, 49 for 235/70/16, 95 for 235/75/15. Still you could get less choice, like 1 for 255/50/18.

Did the shop give you any idea of what they would offer for a more popular size? Maybe double that?

paulj

passports/rodeos also wear 215/70/16.

i found this out in my search for a replacement after a misadventure.

Toyo has just release a new Open Country H/T tire in an Element size, might be worth looking at....

http://www.toyocanada.com/products/OpenCountryHTEN.html

Mike.

http://www.sema.org/images/pdf/Toyo_HT_New.pdf

I left after I was quoted the 6 bucks. Guess I'll wrap 'em up and keep until the market changes.
Thanks

Bridgestone Australia sells the Revo D694 in the stock Element size (215/70/16)

http://www.bridgestone.com.au/tyres/products/car/treads/d694.asp

A good source for tire (tyre) and wheel information (not specific brands):
http://www.chris-longhurst.com/carbibles/index.html?menu.html&tyre_bible.html

I searched for 20+ minutes...so no flames!

I need to know if a 245/55/18 will work on the Element with a 18x8 with a 45 offset.

I have seen that several members have done a 245/55/18 with an 18x8 with a 40 offset, but not a 45.

Please assist as I'm ready to buy mah wheels today, but I just can't be certain with what I've found.

Thanks!

Just for the sticky record, 245/55/18s fit without clearance issues on 18x8 +45 though +40 is reccommended.

Ok, scouring all the different posts on replacement tires, and looking at the CR test ratings, I think that the Dayton Timberline HT appears to be a good performer all around, is available in 225/70/R16, and isn't all that expensive.

I've had cheapy Dayton tires on a junker car before, and they were fine. Other than that I have no experience with the brand. Any insight here? Anyone have these or a similar tire from Dayton?

Is there some sort of consensus on all-purpose replacement tires (and that are not low-profile)?

Several months ago I scanned posts (here and on .org) for tires, sticking with stock rims. There wasn't a strong preference for any one tires, but here are some that came up 2 or more times:

BFGoodrich A/T KO 225/70/16, 235/70/16, 225/75/16
Bridgestone AT REVO 235/70/16
Firestone Destination LE 225/70/16
Goodyear Fortura/Fortrera? 235/70/16
Kumho KH 11 235/60/16
Michelin Cross Terrain 225/70/16
Nokian WR-SUV 225/70/16 (winner at 5 times)
Yokohama Geolandar H/T-S G051 215/70/16

Most have moved up a notch in size; only the Geolander was a common replacement in the stock size.

I am new here, btw nice site. I have question to ask. Do 22 rims fit our element?

Sure, with 265/30/22 tires! Offset is going to have to be pretty small with a rim that is 2.5" wider than stock, and tire that is 2" wider than stock.

Has anyone bought the Goodyear Fortera HL in the 235/70/16 size? Any problems with rubbing? This is the best rated tire in the CR report, but will it fit?

Unfortunately it's not available in the 225/70/16, and I've seen here that some treads rub at 235/70/16.

Also, has anyone had good experiences with 225/75/16s (other than the BFG ATs)? If so, what brand/model?

wheels:
rs limited ricochet
color- anthracite
17x7 40mm offset
weight- 19.4 lbs.
bought them at www.thewheelconnection.com for $580
rims- $500 shipping- $80

tires:
hankook ventus st rh06 all-season high performance suv tire
235/60/17
temperature A
traction A
420 treadwear
smooth ride...low noise...no rubbing...a lot better than the stock tires
great traction and handling...maybe not for strictly snow driving...but a great tire for places like alabama where it snows once or twice a year...then again people that live where it snows a lot have winter tires and summer tires :lol:
bought them at www.1010tires.com for $586.37
tires- around $500 shipping- around $86

Just ordered a set of Yokohama Geolandar H/T-S G051s from Tire Rack, to be shipped to a local shop that will mount them on the stock EX rims, currently shod with the POS, er, NOS Wranglers. May report on performance another time, but here's the thinking behind the purchase:

Limiting my choices to tires available in the stock (215/70-16) size, I compared seven tires on the Tire Rack Web site, based on results from two sources there: the Tire Decision Guide comparisons and the Online Tire Survey. In the table below, the data were sorted by the Wet Traction category. Top scores appear in blue type.

As you can see, the Geolandar has the best scores in Dry Traction, Wet Traction, Hydro Resistance, Snow Traction, Cornering Stability, and Steering Response. It's a close second to the Michelin LTX M/S in Ride Comfort, Noise Comfort, Tread Wear, and the "Would Buy Again?" category. It also happens to be the least expensive of the lot. (Note that the Wrangler HP, despite its abysmal scores, is the second-most expensive!)

http://www.skidmore.edu/~pdwyer/e/images/tire_chart.gif

(In the online surveys, all but the Michelin Pilot LTX were classified as "Highway All-Season." The Pilot LTX was classified as "Street/Sport Truck All-Season," so its Rank Within Category and % vs. Best in Category scores do not apply.)

Naturally, a buyer who wasn't wedded to the stock tire size, wants to go offroad, or never drives in snow (I love my Hakkapeliittas, but don't want to keep them on longer than necessary for the sake of minor fall and spring storms) might not make the same choice.

Update 3/28/05: Have driven a few hundred miles on the Geolandars. They grip well and seem quiet to me.

Damn Dan, that is a heck of a comparison. This is what makes this site so valuable. Kind a makes me want my Wranglers to wear out, so I can get some others.

Hello,
First, thanks for all the useful information on this site! I just completed my purchase of a Magnesium Metallic EX 4wd auto, and, armed with the info that I was able to obtain from this site before I purchased, I feel that we were able to get a good deal. My wife and I, ...and Skipper (our Golden Retreiver), are very pleased with our new addition to the family. However, I too, am unimpressed with the GY Wrangler HP tires. I have, in the past, had good experience with the Pirelli line of tires and I notice that they get good reviews from purchasers at the Tire Rack, but I have not seen one comment on the site. Is there a particular reason for this? I have decided to upgrade to either the Pirelli Scorpion STRa, or the Yokohama Geolander H/T-S G051, but I would like to get the maximum rubber in the wheel wells, without rubbing, that is! I would prefer to purchase the Pirelli's in 235/70TR16, which the Tire Rack lists as 28.9" overall diameter and 9.6" section width. They list the stock GY Wrangler HP's (215/70/16) as 27.7" diameter and 8.7" width. I look in the wheel wells and it looks pretty close at the back of the front inner fender (maybe an inch) and also at the strut, so I'm hesitant to purchase this size. My question is: Has anyone tried this feat yet? Can I fit the 235/70/16 Pirelli's without incident, or do I have to go with the weeny little 225/70/16's? I do intend to stay with the stock, 16" styled wheels. Any input would be appreciated.

Lots of other 235/70/16 tires have been tried successfully. As long as the Perellis have a tread width that is similar to other tires in this nominal size, they should work. At this size you want focus on how the tread edge clears the bell part of the strut tower.

paulj

I'll throw in my $.02...

Wheels
Kazara KZ-A Silver
Size: 18" x 7.5"
Offset: +40mm
Weight: 21.2 lbs. ea. (The stock 16 X 6 riims weigh 20.5 lbs. ea.)
Purchased: TireRack $185 ea.

Tires
Kumho ECSTA ASX (Ultra High Performance All Season)
Size: 235/50WR18 Blackwall
Purchased: TireRack $120 ea. (inlc. mount & balance)

This combination offers superb dry and wet traction. The ride is very smooth and responsive. I would recommend offset between 40 and 45 mm with this tire, but I have not had any rubbing problems. This combination makes the E handle like a sports car.

Any suggestions to beef up the look of the E instead of lowering like a tuner car. I was thinking beefier tires that were wider but also filled up the wheel well more to give it a more offroad apprearance like a little h2 or jeep ( of course like most I rarely go off road if ever). The lower profile improves handling I know, but I think 17 in rims with lower profile tires still doesnt accomplish my goal. What is the happy medium.

Also, does anyoneone have pics of an E with mods that make it look like a tougher SUV rather than a sporty sleek tuner car (which is also cool I admit).

...does anyoneone have pics of an E with mods that make it look like a tougher SUV rather than a sporty sleek tuner car (which is also cool I admit).
Empire's ride used to look pretty badass, though IIRC he subsequently toned it down.

http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/7564FApN/47265.jpg

I was thinking beefier tires that were wider but also filled up the wheel well more to give it a more offroad apprearance like a little h2 or jeep ( of course like most I rarely go off road if ever).

A beefy tire filling a wheel well is a pseudo-offroad look.

While it nice to have large tires offroad, it is also essential that they have lots of room to move up and down (articulate) in the wheel well. Hence a true offroad vehicle has a large gap between tire and top of the wheelwell.

The Element has a stiff independent suspension, so the tires don't move up that much when going over bumps. This is more of a sporty behavior than an off road one. It also means that a large wheel well clearance is not needed.

I assume that by beefy tire you mean one with deeper tread. Such tires also tend to have tread that extends out on the shoulders. You do have to be more careful about fit with such tires. Tire sizes give the 'section width', that is, the approximate widest width. This is distinct from the tread width.

paulj

Here's a combo that I haven't seen too many try (but it does fit . . . )

Wheels - 17x7.5 Shuk Wr1 + 42 mm offset
Tires - 235/65HR-17 Yokohama Geolandar H/T-S G052

Overall OD is just over 29"; the 42 mm offset helps the shoulder clear the strut - if you go with this tire size, I would suggest keeping the offset as close to +40 as possible.

Tires are great . . . (previously I had the 235/70-16 Bridgestone Revo's on stock alloys. That was good - these are better . . . )

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/box4rox/Box4Rox95.jpg

Tires are great . . . (previously I had the 235/70-16 Bridgestone Revo's on stock alloys. That was good - these are better . . . )

Thanks for confirming that those indeed fit on stock rims. With Empire's testimonial, and now yours, I know those wheels will fit.

Time to order them up!

And alas...installed!

And inside and top clearance pics

I have been reading and shopping for new tires and rims and at times have been more confused than a baby in a titty bar.
It seems a 17 inch rim would be a good comprimise between the 16 and 18.
Currently looking at Yokahama Avid TR@ in 225 60 17. Guy at Tire Rack says this is a good tire with 80 K tread warranty. Snow once a year and beach 2-3 times a year for me. What ya think?

I purchased tires at the TireRack and received "blue dot" tires and I"ve heard about tires like this from a kid at Costco as being second rate. So I spoke to the local GoodYear Tire store and asked how discount stores can give me the exact same tire for $100 less than he can, he explained: "Any tire discount place will sell you less than round/perfect tires at a discounted price. This tire doesn't meet the manufacturer's specs for a top quality tire therefore, depending on the manufacturer, it would recieve a "blue dot". You might not notice it unless you push the tire to its limits. These tires is still DOT approved but they don't meet the manufacturers approval." So I checked the reviews on tires from buyers at TireRack and constantly see that they end up rebalancing the tires after receiving them. Now I'm curious if anyone has heard of this before? I am not going to take my "V" rated tires to 140mph so I really don't think getting a less than perfect tire is going to stop me from saving a ton of money and I'll buy more from TireRack if they keep beating Costco's prices. :|

Id like to know where you heard all these people replacing tires they get from tirerack? I've researched them for months and never heard such a thing. Only time was when the tire just flat out sucked (i.e. just a cheap tire altogether, i.e our OEM Wranglers). Just curious...id like to see if I missed something??? :confused:

My new REVOs came from tirerack and they were "yellow dot" same with the new Firestone Desntination ATs for my Envoy...so I can not attest to this "blue dot" dilemma.

Oh and I do agree...if you are pushing your E at 140 REGARDLESS of your tire rating, it spells trouble anyways :)

I'll chime in here since I'm learning something new...(I'll know I'm dead when I stop learning)...Bridgestone puts yellow dots on tires since that is the light side of the tire and should be lined up with the heavy side of a wheel (valve stem)...check this website (http://www.trucktires.com/us_eng/library/publications/periodicals/RealAnswers/04v9iss1/ra8b.asp) about it.

I've been buying "blem" tires from a local discount tire shop for years and have never had any issues to speak of...some were name brand tires and some were no-names. Yeah, its an apples and oranges comparison, but until I see someone trying to mount an obviously oval tire on a round wheel, I'll still buy from discount tire shops be they local or over the 'net.

Id like to know where you heard all these people replacing tires they get from tirerack? I've researched them for months and never heard such a thing. Only time was when the tire just flat out sucked (i.e. just a cheap tire altogether, i.e our OEM Wranglers). Just curious...id like to see if I missed something??? :confused:

My new REVOs came from tirerack and they were "yellow dot" same with the new Firestone Desntination ATs for my Envoy...so I can not attest to this "blue dot" dilemma.

Oh and I do agree...if you are pushing your E at 140 REGARDLESS of your tire rating, it spells trouble anyways :)

LWLancers, I never said replacing, I said rebalancing. :lol:

I'll chime in here since I'm learning something new...(I'll know I'm dead when I stop learning)...Bridgestone puts yellow dots on tires since that is the light side of the tire and should be lined up with the heavy side of a wheel (valve stem)...check this website (http://www.trucktires.com/us_eng/library/publications/periodicals/RealAnswers/04v9iss1/ra8b.asp) about it.

I've been buying "blem" tires from a local discount tire shop for years and have never had any issues to speak of...some were name brand tires and some were no-names. Yeah, its an apples and oranges comparison, but until I see someone trying to mount an obviously oval tire on a round wheel, I'll still buy from discount tire shops be they local or over the 'net.

I see what your referring to Genom, but I meant the small "sprayed" blue circle on my BF Goodrich's. This is how BF Goodrich marks a less than perfect tire that is not to be sold at a BF Goodrich store/dealer.

OK, so we've seen red, yellow and blue dots, funny though, my BFG's came from Tire Rack and they have green dots on them. My installer didn't know what they meant so we installed them above the valve stem. Once put on the balancer we could not discern that they were for balancing, each tire was a lot different then the next and some were ridiculous in terms of what needed to be done for balancing.

With the BFG's my 'E' rides alot like my old Ford Ranger FX4 L2 that came with the same model of BFG's from the factory (albeit different sizes). I wouldn't say that the BFG's from the factory were any different quality than the ones from Tire Rack

I took a stroll at BJ's and Costco and none of their BFG's had any "dots" to speak of, so are the yellow and red "dots" that Bridgestone/Firestones web page speak of only for commercial truck tires and not "passenger/lt. truck" tires?

I've bought many and I mean many very high performance tires from TireRack, most costing well over 200 bucks per tire for my old EVO and other past perfromance/sports cars, and never had any issues on the street or the track with so called "imperfections". I have many friends with the same opinion about tires from TireRack too; these friends spend a lot of money getting each corner of their cars weight balanced and don't cheaping out tires, they buy the best and spend lots of money to make sure everything installed on their vehicles is perfect. I don't think TireRack would still be in business if they really did such a thing without stating that these tires are imperfect, seems like they would be open up to a lot of lawsuits. I think these rumors are just that.

Has anyone considered that maybe TireRack is able to offer such low prices because their distribution network is much, much, much smaller than any tire shop located in your town. They only have a very small installation department at their "warehouse/showroom" so that would keep costs down as well, since the number of "skilled" employees that deal directly with the customer is low and too. Their real estate is not in "prime" locations but rather in warehouse districts, close to the interstate so their suppliers can get to them easily, not their customers and what distribution they do have, they pass directly and plainly on to the customer and don't embeded it and hide it into the price of their tires (albeit, that their advertising and other overhead costs are embeded into that price). They also don't have to pay any franchise fees that most tire shops pay for. Yes they spend huge amounts on advertisements and sponsorships and running those enormous warehouses, but the prices get lower when their volume gets higher.

I'm not saying that the basis of the rumors floating around couldn't be true, it just doesn't seem to make economic, legal, or rational sense that they would be true. It seems they are "discount" because they are one of the first true NON-Bricks and Mortar companies that you hear so much about, but rarely see make a profit.

TireRack sponsors many of many internet car clubs, it would be interesting to see what their reps have to say about these rumors.

LWLancers, I never said replacing, I said rebalancing. :lol:

Ah hell man, if I knew how to read I would not have gotten confused.

I need to go break out the Hooked on Phonics again....

I purchased my wheels and tires both from TireRack and they came mounted and ballanced. The had BOTH Blue and Yellow dots on each tire. I don't know if the dots represent anything? I'm very happy with them though and recommend TireRack often.

With all the input and suggestions from so many owners, it's very hard to figure out who actually put certain tires on their E's, and who were just thinking about tires. Discount Tires lists the Geolander HTS in 215/70/16 for $70, and the 225/70/16 for $110 - a very big difference. Has anyone been using these tires, (what size and price), for a while and could offer some personal experience input? Probably a lot of owners are getting close to getting new tires, including me, and real-time info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks folks.

This is what I'm talking about in terms of "sprayed on dots". There blue marks sprayed on the tire. I happen to like what Tire Rack is selling, I've spent over a grand on tires in the last two months with them so it doesn't seem to effect my opinion of what they sell.

hmm...the dots on mine were perfectly round as if they were stamped on.

hmm...the dots on mine were perfectly round as if they were stamped on.

Yea, mine too

I'm replacing the stock tires at 21,000 as they are just about at tire-bar stage. I buy at Costco and the chart below shows what they sell, and after reading the past 13 pages I plan to get the Michelin LTX which should be a significant improvement over the low-bidder tires that came on the E. And there's $50 off that price this month - still expensive, but our parrot is worth it!

I added the comparison of the Michelin with the crappola Goodyear Wrangler. Guess which is which.

I bought my '03 E used about 2 months ago (3000 miles ago). The dealer had installed a set of Warrior "Fluent" tires that I believe came from Discount Tire in Houston. I had never heard of this brand. 225/60/16, very quiet, GRIPPY, cheap ($60 ea.).
Downside: on grooved pavement, it seems to wander. Also, the torque steer is incredible under heavy 2WD acceleration (scary at times).

225-60-16 Warrior Fluent

Interesting tire size, a bit smaller diameter than stock.
Is acceleration better?

Does anyone know how wide the stock rims are; 6.0 6.5, 7.0?

Does anyone know how wide the stock rims are; 6.0 6.5, 7.0?

I believe the stock alloys are 6.5" wide...not sure of offset though.

Since the used Element came with the smaller diameter tires, I doubt if the current owner has anything to judge them by.

When I bought my RAV4 (97) used several years ago, it has this size, 225/60/16 in National brand (Taiwan?) 'performance' tires. It was some time after purchase, when I was looking at the spare, that I realized they were a non stock size (stock on the RAV4 is same as on the Element). When I switched to stock size a year later I did not notice much difference in performance, even though the RAV4 is significantly underpowered compared to the Element. On the other hand, some people do claim to detect significant handling and performance differences when switch tire sizes or models. May be I just do drive my cars as hard as others.

paulj

My toaster is torqu-erific. It doesn't mind singing at 6000 rpm either. fun fun.

Tire Height:
215/65/R16 = 2 x (215mm x 0.65) + 16" = 279.5 / (25.4 mm per inch) + 16" = 27.0" tall (stock)

225/60/R16 = 2 x (225mm x 0.60) + 16" = 270.0 / (25.4 mm per inch) + 16" = 26.63" tall (3/8" shorter than stock)

Paulj, you're correct. I have nothing to compare these tires to....so they're okay.

ps: check my math against some tire charts to see how close these numbers are.......kgr

Actually stock is 215/70/16, a hair under 28" nominal diameter.

225/60/16 are 4.4% smaller.
235/60 is 2.7% smaller,
225/70 is 2% larger,
235/70 is 4% larger
(I keep a tire_sizes spreadsheet at hand, one that I modified from someone else, ramblindan?).

paulj

Interesting tire size, a bit smaller diameter than stock.
Is acceleration better?

Does anyone know how wide the stock rims are; 6.0 6.5, 7.0?

6.5 with a 45 off set

Just added American Racing CASINO rims 18"s and Mich. pilot tires What a differnce OMG Stop like a dream factory tires were crap! Handles the turns so much better too!

Ordered my 235/60/16 Michellin hydra' from tirerack at 1 pm. yesterday , they were at my door by 9 am this morning.Had them mounted by 10 , drove all day and very happy.

Keep us posted as you keep putting the miles on those Hydras.

Yeah, joea, keep us posted what goes on with those tires in the Winter here on Long Island...Tire Rack rates those Michelins with a 7.7 for snow while the stock GYs get a 5.6....seems like a good rating for a directional tire.

Just a point of detail. The Tirerack ratings are really averages of consumer opinions and impressions. Few, if any, of the people who submitted their opinions on these tires had driven both, much less compared them in similar conditions. The M Hydroedge is classed as 'passenger all-season', the Wrangler HPs as 'highway all season' (a SUV/pickup category). With different groups of drivers having different expectations, it is tricky to compare across groups. A passenger car driver probably will have higher noise and comfort expectations than an SUV driver, while an SUV driver may have higher snow traction expectations.

Consider for example that in the Tirerack survey, the Hydroedge is below GY Comfortred in snow traction. I could go over to Goodyear's web site and see how the company ranks the Comfortred against the Wrangler HP in snow use. I won't take the time to do so, but I suspect GY will qualify their own ratings by saying that you can't compare numbers across tire categories.

Anyways, customer surveys such as at Tirerack (and Tires101) are one tool for comparing tires. The manufacturers assign their own numbers to help you choose among their offerings. Tirerack itself has done limited track testing of tires (generally 3 similar ones at a time). Consumer Reports is another source. The results of their latest 'highway all season' comparison have been posted on this forum - they compare about 20 different tires.

paulj

Thank you for the enlightenment on the ratings, Paulj. I've been looking into something before the next snow season arrives here in N.Y. (yeah, I've got time to shop and compare)...not that the stock GY's were all that bad this past winter, I'm sure there are better tires out there.

Either way, at least it is a central place to go see ANY rating for any tire at any time. And personally I am growing weary of trusting ratings from magazines and publications as you just never know when who is getting a good rating based on $$$$. :roll:

As Paul pointed out, sure the ratings are based on different consumer expectations, but at least they are true consumer reviews (at least you would hope). I personally find that more resourceful than say R&T or Consumer Reports who always seesm to be based on of all things, $$$ and popular demand.

I put on some "Path Finder Sport SUV" 235 70 R16's from Discount Tire. I liked the beefier look and they were around $500 all said and done. The original tires only went about 25K.

One thing I've noticed is that performance and gas mileage are down. Seems like the E was tuned to a certain tire size. It just doesn't seem as lively and the gas mileage is down about 1-2 MPG. Has anyone else noticed this?

I was told by an ex tire saleman that I need the tranny (automatic) re-programed to account for tire diameter change. A Honda tech I talked to said that was bunk. The tech also said he could get 28 MPG in his E (auto, 4WD) on the highway between Seattle and Portland, stock tires.

He said he runs 34 lbs in his tires. I'm thinking of bumping mine up to around 38 to see how that works.

Your tires are 4% larger than stock, so in theory you need to take that into account when calculating gas use. However 4% of 20 mpg is only .8 mpg.

Tire width may make a difference. Without changing pressures, the contact patch are should remain about constant, but a wide short patch might produce a lower gas mileage than a narrow long one. The stock tires have a narrow tread width, even for 215/70/16 tires, so they may (I stress 'may') be some of the most fuel efficient tires around. I am speculating in this paragraph.

Taller tires will increase your height a bit, and increase wind resistance, dropping highway gas mileage a bit further. Hard to quantify this though. On the other hand, with bigger tires, your highway rpm's don't have to be so high (for a give mph), which should help gas mileage.

I don't know if you can feel a 4% difference in performance. I'm not sure I could.

To get a good test on gas mileage, you may need to pick some earlier drive (say a day spent at a know freeway speed), and repeat it with the new tires. In normal useage there are some many things that affect gas mileage, that it is hard to prove the effect of any one change.

paulj

I too put some "Path Finder Sport SUV" 235 70 R16's from Discount Tire. I liked the look and they were $506.00 with road hazard.
I like the tires but I to feel like my E just isn't as lively as before, the gas mileage is almost the same as before about 26 mpg total so I can live with that. I did bump up to 38 and it helped it some.
It might be because the tread has more of an off road look to it and does seem to grip the road much better than the stock tires.
I about .70 of an inch in height and that is a trade off that I was looking for.

If by 'lively' you mean that there is more resistance to the steering, it is likely that the tread width and tread pattern is at 'fault'. The stock tires have a narrow tread and rounded shoulders, so probably offer less resistance to turning than most alternatives. If you read my first experiences with my Coopers, from January on this thread, you will notice that I experienced a similar resistance and noise when turning. Running higher pressures lifts the edge of tread off the ground a bit, and reduces the grip, and hence turning resistance.

One could argue, though, that increasing the pressure negates one of the advantages of switching to wider tires - increased traction, of some sort or other. Which do you want, grip or light steering?

paulj

Hey, those "Path Finder Sport SUV" tires from Discount (their brand) were really great on my '91 4Runner. I ran through 2 sets (31-10.5-R15) before my size was discontinued. I averaged a true 60,000(!) miles, they were quiet, and handled well on the road and puddles. You still need to be diligent about rotating. Funny thing about those tires.....they had an affinity to punctures. Honestly, out of eight tires, I had 9 punctures.... all but two were repairable. I was able to get my toy shod with 4 tires + all the extras for $476.

They're an aggresive looking tire that get complements.... I'd buy them again.

When I talk about lively, I'm saying "quick", fast off the line, no messing around. Not a rocket either buy no *****footer forever in the right lane. I thought it had a reasonably gutsy throttle response. Now it seems sluggish. Will a tweek of the tranny computor help that?

Just replaced the tires with Yoko Geolander GO51, 215/70/16.
Damn good tires. Barely no noise at any speed. I got it at a local store for $360 including installation, balancing, tax, etc.

Highly recommended.

I have run Cooper Lifelines on a Crown Vic, Blazer and, S10. Blazer and S10 were 4WD. Even though I live in Oklahoma, where we only have about 6 to 10 days a year with enough snow to worry about, I did run in a 10 inch snow with these tires with no problem. The tread is a hiway tread with M/S rating. not designed for off roding. Wet traction is excellent. I will probably put them on my E when the time comes. A friend is running the A/T's on his pickup. He has 4 miles of dirt roads that turn to a mud bog when it rains. he plans on replacing them with the same thing.

Hello everyone, I appreciate all your help with my tire choice. I went to Sears last weekend and bought the Michelin XC LT4 P235/70R16. Just in case any of you were wondering if they would fit on stock rims in these wheelwells, well they do. No rubbing on a hard left or right either.

The folks at Sears were willing to experiment to see if they would fit, and while the Michelin LTX M/S is more or less the same tire, these come with a 60K mile warranty, LTX comes with none.

So far the ride appears more solid and quieter than the OE tires. I'll provide an update in about a month on gas mileage and my experience with these new tires. My math shows this tire at 3.7% larger diameter, there is also extra width.

Thanks again for all the good technical info from this site.

Frank

2004 EX 2WD Galapagos Green Michelin XC LT4 P235/70R16, Home Depot grill protection (after loss of condenser due to rock $750)

Great reading, but have a ques that I have not seen addressed here. What if we have to use the spare? How much difference can there safely be in the diameters of the tires on the same axle with the AWD? Or how far can we drive without causing any damage to the differentials? Or does it matter with hondas all wheel drive system. I want to put on 18" wheels and tires, but the only size that is close to factory are about 200 bucks a tire!!! which puts it a little out of the picture and then they are special order, so if there is a problem or road hazard damage to a tire while on vacation it would pose a BIG problem getting that size 235/55R18. Thanks, Tim

In 'ask the dealer' someone just asked a similar question
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15203
with reference to some thoughts I had on the subject of spares a while back.

The basic point is that the spare that comes with the Element is 6% smaller than stock. So for temporary use the Element engineers must consider that difference acceptable. Whether increasing the tires 2 or 4% (the common 225 or 235 widths) makes the difference too large is unknown. However the size you mention, 235/55/18 is only 1% larger than stock.

paulj

So, If I go with a 235/50-18 like tire rack has as their suggested size, then it is 2.1% smaller than stock. This would be closer to the spare size than the factory originals! Thanks, this makes me feel better :grin: . Tim

Many who switch to 18" or larger wheels actually reduce the overall tire diameter - it adds to the low wide look. On the other hand, if you choose to increase tire diameter to get more ground clearance or a more aggressive tread (for backroads use), it may be a good idea to look into alternatives to the compact spare - finding space for a full size spare, investing in an air compressor, tire plug kit, etc.

paulj

Sorry guys...another wheel fit question. I read through every post including the tirerack articles but still end up confused.

Bottom line well these wheels work? 16x7 45mm offset. I understand the stock wheels are 16x6.5 so will it make a huge difference? And do you think I can run 235/70 revos on them? Doing math on the larger tire width the 215 is 8.46 inches, the 235 is 9.25 inches. The 6.5 to 7inch wheels will bring it 6mm closer to the car. Based on these calculationgs I think the 235s would bring it 1.19 inches closer to the struts. Wheel weight is 16lbs. Is that too light? Thanks for your help.

Sup folks!
After 47,800 miles I'm about to replace the OEM Goodyears with Dayton Timberline H/T tires in the 225/70R/16 size. The Daytons are made by Bridgestone/Firestone and were just rated one of the top 5 new SUV tires by Consumers Reports and is recommended. I was going to buy the Goodyear Fortera armor at $130 per tire balanced and installed. The Dayton is $95 per tire complete and performs nearly as well. I'll also do a four wheel alignment for $59.95. IMO, the minimal performance differences between the Goodyear and the Dayton doesn't justify the $35 cost-per-tire difference between these two brands.

Hello all. I am new to this site and have a 04 Honda Element. I went to the tiretrack site and didnt find it too helpful. I am from NY and am looking for really good all-season tires especially for snow. Ones with thick treads if possible. The wranglers that came with it wear down wayyyyy tooo fast. My tire size is p215/70r16. If anyone has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. You can email me at mtm_dds@yahoo.com. Thanx for the input.

Hello all. I am new to this site and have a 04 Honda Element. I went to the tiretrack site and didnt find it too helpful.

What didn't you find on on tirerack? Did you read this winter tire FAQ?
http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=120#wont_as
http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/index.jsp

Okay, another stupid question from the king of stupid questions.

I am having to ditch my spare tire due to extenuating(sp?) circumstances - i.e., my amps are going in there.

Looking to maybe buy run-flat tires as an insurance policy. Anyone know anything about them? I think that Dunlop makes some. I don't need all-terrain performance, jsut great dry traction and great wet traction. If I can't get them in good snow traction, maybe I'll by a set of steel DX wheels or somethin for the cold months, keep the salt off my stockers.

found a 225/60-16, too big?

Expensive buggers too.

225/60-16 has a smaller diameter than stock; many tires in this size are marketted as 'passenger car' tires, not SUV/truck ones. It would work, but it is the smallest I would want to put on the stock wheels. I haven't paid attention to what is available in run flats. I wouldn't be surprised if they were more available in the passenger car styles and sizes, rather than the suv/pickup ones.

Keeping an eye on your tires, measuring the pressure regularly, and carrying an air compressor, can reduce your need for a spare. A common cause of flat tires is a screw in the tread. The leak may be slow enough that you can pump up the tire and drive to a repair shop. Tire plug kits also work with this kind of flat, but aren't so good for the rarer sidewall damage.

paulj

I am considering getting dunlop a/t rovers for my 04 element. I live in NY and need something good for year round but especially for snow. Any comments or suggestions? My tire size is p215/70r16


Any help is greatly appreciated.


_knob

:roll: Already picked up a nail on my side wall and it's protruding outward like a mettalic tooth pick. Lord knows if I remove it the tire will go down. At the moment my Element is at the tire shop and they are going to attempt a patch job on it.
Should be OK but I was warned that the stock Goodyear Wranglers on the E are weak tires to begin with. Indeed. I wanted to replace them with a set of BFG All Terrains TAs but they no longer make the TAs in that size. I am still :roll: looking for a decent all terrain tire for my Element. Any suggestions?

Whoa is 225/60R16 a popular size (115 hits on TireRack) ... should be 4.4% smaller than stock, should be a lot easier to get a replacement relative to running the stock tires. I got a flat that could not be repaired and it took a week the get a replacement tire :-o

The spare will likely work better with this size tire as it is 6% smaller than stock.

Please report back on handling differences.

Okay, another stupid question from the king of stupid questions.

I am having to ditch my spare tire due to extenuating(sp?) circumstances - i.e., my amps are going in there.

Looking to maybe buy run-flat tires as an insurance policy. Anyone know anything about them? I think that Dunlop makes some. I don't need all-terrain performance, jsut great dry traction and great wet traction. If I can't get them in good snow traction, maybe I'll by a set of steel DX wheels or somethin for the cold months, keep the salt off my stockers.

found a 225/60-16, too big?

Expensive buggers too.

Okay, I've read the threads and posts on tires and have this question. While I really want to go to a larger tire size, for cosmetics if nothing else, I want to be sure that a 225/70R-16 tire will not raise hell with the ABS and all wheel drive system. I also wonder about extra or faster wear of the braking system. Any thoughts on this? ANybody?

THanks ahead of time.

Michael

at 225 I wouldnt worry, its about as small a jump as you can make.

I can not say this scientifically, but most modern day abs systems simply need the same size tires all around the vehicle and the system will still function the same. Obviously, sports cars that come from the factory with different size front and wheel tires, need to be considered differently.

The biggest issue of going to a larger tire, at least in the size you are considering, since it's not that much larger is the type of tire that you get, is in how much more it weighs. That is where you will notice the difference in performance and wear and tear on your vehicle.

The tire and wheel weight are important factors in that it's "unsprung" weight. The more "unsprung" weight the worse performance, handling, and balance you will have on a vehicle and the more stress you will put on the components that do support the weight. The brakes were designed to stop the vehicle fully loaded and towing something. So realistically adding slightly heavier tires is not going to reak havoc on your vehicle. Should you expect to notice a difference between a lighter weight wheel/tire combo, yes you should, but it's not like the Element is sports car where such a little bit of difference matters.

Does any one know if ridgeline wheels will fit the E?

Imagine if you will some one dumb enough to build a house at the end of
a hilly one-mile long "tar and chip" access road. The road is so steep the county will not maintain or plow the road in winter or maintain it in the summer. Then add a 100 yard long gravel drive way at the end of this road.

Now imagine driving this road through deep snow and ice on your stock Good Year Wranglers.

My perfect tire, a subistiute for the Wranglers, is the Mastercraft Courser A/T in the stock size. They ran me $84 dollars a tire (made by Cooper).

It has the same structure as the Cooper Discovery AT, but with a slightly more aggressive tread. Both are M/S Rated for 50,000 miles. Although stock size these tires seems to fill the wheelwell better than the Wranglers did. So far I have found them to be only slightly noisier than stock (not bothersome ), they have much better handling, and stopping distances seem greatly reduces. The E always seemed to have a weird braking feel to me-- no
longer. Gas millage is unchanged. The weather varies here from 100 F in
the summers, to below zero with a good deal of snow come winter with lots
of freezing rain and ice thrown in.

So for my driving conditions consisting of of highway, county road and
bad roads, this is the perfect tire. If you find yourself in the same boat you may wish to consider it.

See the attatched image below for a better look.

http://www.mastercrafttires.com/us/en/ProductDetails.asp?ProdType=SUV&id=85&title=SUV+Tires

the Mastercraft Courser A/T

I have Mastercraft Courser HTR on my RAV4, and about 6000 miles on my Cooper ATRs on the Element. Just had the ATRs rotated; they wearing well.

paulj

hey folks,
i have a pretty good relationship with the kauffman tire place in smyrna ga. they gave me education on tires. i went with the toyo open country a/t. i also went with the 225/70/16. more common size so it was cheaper than stock size. it also makes for a wider tire and fills the wheel well perfect. this particular tire has a/t tread but rides like a dream. as most have already said non/oem feels like a new e. 60,000 warr. has got to be better than the 30,000 we all seem to be getting from oem. will take pics. soon. have a buddy with oem to side by side compare with.

Boy, I think it was easier to learn the Special Theory of Relativity than it has been to figure out the tires and wheels I want for my Element! :grin:

This is what I've come up with. I'm leaning towards 17" Kazera KZ-A (http://www.kazera.com/wheels/detail/kza_silver.html) wheels in the silver finish and a set of Yokohama Geolandar H/T-S G052 (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=Geolandar+H%2FT-S+G052) 235/65HR17 tires. There is snow where I live and these look like they'd work well in the snow.

Any comments?

sounds like you have it just about right.

This thread could use some stock WHEEL specs of 16x6.5", 5x114.3, ET.42, 64.1
to go along with the often mentioned stock tire size of 215/70/16 :)

Here's my 235/70/16 AT Revos on my powder coated DX wheels. I've had them on for a year and a half now without any rubbing whatsoever.

Here is a handy little chart I generated. Based upon what I have seen here, I believe all of these tire sizes will fit the E. HOWEVER, I am almost positive that if your wheels are wider than stock, you will experience rubbing from the options with larger radii. If someone has the knowledge to find maximum wheel width for these tire specs, it'd be much appreciated...

Tire Size Comparison

Specification Sidewall Radius Diameter Circumference Revs/Mile Difference
215/70-16 5.9in 13.9in 27.9in 87.5in 724 0.0%
215/75-16 6.3in 14.3in 28.7in 90.2in 703 3.0%
225/70-16 6.2in 14.2in 28.4in 89.2in 710 2.0%
225/75-16 6.6in 14.6in 29.3in 92.0in 689 5.2%
235/70-16 6.5in 14.5in 29.0in 91.0in 697 4.0%
225/65-17 5.8in 14.3in 28.5in 89.6in 707 2.4%
225/70-17 6.2in 14.7in 29.4in 92.4in 686 5.6%
235/65-17 6.0in 14.5in 29.0in 91.2in 695 4.2%
235/55-18 5.1in 14.1in 28.2in 88.5in 716 1.2%
245/55-18 5.3in 14.3in 28.6in 89.9in 705 2.7%
235/60-18 5.6in 14.6in 29.1in 91.4in 693 4.5%

Hey Ap... good list. But my tire was not available in a 55 width, :grin: therefore it is a 235/50-18. BFG G-FORCE TA KDWS, Tim

sidewall.............4.6
radius...............13.6
diameter...........27.3
circumference....85.6
revs/mile...........740
difference...........2.1%

Just FYI,

I just had a fitment problem with the Michelin Energy MXV4 235-65-17. They rub on the vertical frame cover just behind the front tires.

I was bummed, since my local discount tire shop matched tirerack's special on these tires for $116. They figured it out at $120 a tire (plus tirerack shipping, minus tax)

I ended up with Goodyear Eagle LS 235-60-17, again matching tirerack at $112 per tire. Not my favorite tire, but they are quiet and ride soft.

The best part of the deal is the wheels though - 17" Black rims for $110 each. The brand is Hot Wheels Red Line made exclusively for Discount tire by KMC Wheels.

http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/findWheelByBrandDetail.do?rcz=55107&rc=MNMINT&wd=17&pc=57962&typ=&rw=7&bp=4-100

LMNTRY-

Can you please tell me the width of your wheel (i.e. 17" x ?)?

This is the info I am looking for. You probably could have gotten away with 235/65/17 if your wheel was not as wide.

Hopefully I can come up with some kind of formula for maximum wheel width per tire size.

There are 3 key dimensions for wheels (besides lug pattern): diameter, width, and offset. Tire specs give an allowable range of widths, and a 'measured rim width'. A tire mounted on a 'measured rim width' has a section width (widest) close to the nomial width (e.g. 235mm), though the actual section width is also listed in the spec table. Mounting the tire on a different rim width affects section width by a bit. Some spec tables have a footnote saying that width varies by .2" for each .5" change in rim width.

The tire section width is relevant on the Element in that the widest point of the front tire comes closest to the steering arm where it attaches to the strut tower. You can, though, adjust this spacing by choosing a wheel with a different offset.

The tread width of the tire does not vary (much) with wheel width, but varies relative to nominal section width among tire models. The spec tables for some manufactures list the tread width. The stock tires have a relatively narrow tread width; AT tires tend to have wide ones. The tire shoulder can rub on the bell top of the strut tower. It may also rub on the fender liner at selected points when the tire is turned - watch, for example, the little vertical fin behind the front tire.

Thus a rounded shoulder tire of a given size may fit, while a square shoulder model of the same size might not. A 225/75/16 tire may fit while a 235/70/16 of the same model might rub, just because the higher profile tire (75) has more taper from section width to tread.

Any list of tire sizes that might fit, should also note the relative availability of those sizes. There is little point in listing a tire size that is hard to find (e.g. 215/75/16).

paulj

Apathyfabulous,

Those Hot Wheel Redline black rims are:
17X7 4-100/114.42

Thanks,

I live in Chicago where we get a decent mix of rain, snow. Any suggestions on a replacement set of tires for the E?

I would be mostly concerend with grip in rain and snow during traffic where there is less stopping room. I also would like good turning grip with minimal squeal.

The stocks now seem to whine when I make a sharp turn going 25 or so. I also feel like they don't grip so much resulting in me having to readjust my line to make it tighter.

Any thoughts?

2003 EX AWD
Switched my Goodyears which would spin on dry for Yokohama Geolander H/T-S- G051.....same size as originals. Hey you can drive in rain and snow and not die. They make the car handle much better overall on dry roads and have enough of a tread pattern to go in a field or muddy dirt road etc without problem. If you keep the Wranglers to save the money invest it in life insurance.
RB

It's been some time since your post on gas mileage, but I thought I'd follow up and see if you'd gotten a little more data over time. It's not unusual for a car to get better mileage on one tank, due to favorable wind, driving downhill, etc. A real test would be over several tanks on a round trip, with exact miles/gal calcs. (I buy from whoever's cheapest, including Chevron and have never noticed a difference I've been forced to buy from price gougers.)

Hi, all,

Thanks for all the tire info. I have been reading for a while, without joining in, but I wanted both to thank you all and offer more info.

In a large part because of HONU's posts ("HI, neighbor!), I researched the Nokians and bought a set from Kirkland, also. My E has about 7900mi on it so far, and I didn't argue with their offer of $25/tire for the stock Goodyears. I thought the stock tires were very wimpy. Actually, they did fine over Chinook Pass last weekend while in a few inches of snow over old snow and ice, during a blizzard, but I didn't like the looks of them anyhow. I really go places and safety is a concern.

When I drove back over the floating bridge this afternoon, in the wind and downpouring rain of Seattle, wearing my New Nokian WRs, it felt as if the tires had suction cups on them. No kidding. At the Tire Factory, they told me that the Wisconsin State Patrol uses these very same tires, which made me feel pretty secure.

I will check for mileage economy effects, although I seem to do better than most. I drove to Yellowstone/Tetons this September with a passenger and all our stuff, and consistently got over 30mpg with cruise control. I am very happily surprised with the fuel economy I am getting, as the official stats weren't good enough.

NOTE: I did an experiment with brands. With Chevron, I am getting 30+mpg hwy. With ARCO, which averages ~$0.15/gal less, I get nearly 10mpg LESS! Two other friends, independently testing, got similar results. It's worth it to pay more for good gas.

I will be driving into the mountains a lot, both in winter, and over rough logging roads in the drier season, and I will report on how it goes.

Thanks again for all the info!

wheels:
- enkei gf1's anthracite machined
- 18x7.5 5-100

tires:
- bf goodrich g-force t/a kdws
- 245/55zr18 103w orbl
- year round ultra high performance

misc:
- lifetime rotations and balance
- protated road hazard
- free valve stems

around 1275.99.at discount tire.

After squandering way too much time reading reviews on this forum and sites like Tirerack, I picked up some LTX M/S. I went with the small jump in size to 225/70/16. While it is actually a tiny jump in size, these tires look like the size the Element should have had - much "beefier". I noticed they are substantially quieter than the Wranglers, and I've intentionally barrelled through some pretty stout puddles over the last 2 days, as we've had fairly significant rains. They seem to channel water well, so I'm not expecting the all too frequent hydroplaning characteristics I noticed with the Wranglers. Of course, I'm sure it helps that I now have more than 4/32" of tread, which is where the Wranglers wound up at 21K. Only about 200 miles so far, but I'm initially pleased.

My new favorite wheel is the stock Honda Pilot alloy. I saw a set on CKinSD's new E and I am smitten. I just found a set that's like new for $200 and I'm mating them with 235/70/16 Michelin Cross Terrains for my new forthcoming 06! Very nice! And btw, CK's where sold by the dealer to him when he took delivery of his new E. So this helps put to rest the idea that going with this larger size tire is a problem. If Honda dealers are selling Es with this bigger tire and wheel combo, that confirms in my mind that it's no big deal.

THESE ARE THE RIMS I GOT FOR MY E

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b151/dominox972/pic.jpg

I also bought the Yokohama Geolander. I made a search for my needs, in this particular case, i live in Puerto Rico, i need a good traction tires for wet and dry conditions. Comparing different tires in The Tire Rack, YOKOHAMA fill my need.

Tires: Yokohama Geolander H/T-S G051
Size: 215/70/16
Purchased: from The Tire Rack, $87 each with shipping.

okay,I have been driving around for 2 1/2 years on the stock tires and have been hating them. Now have 80,000k (!) on them and need to buy new tires. 2003 4WD with ABS, etc.

I live in Vancouver, BC where we are in the middle of 40 days and nights of rain. Do drive in snow about 10 days a year, no off road, but a ton of highway driving (ice, wet, lots!) I would love not to pay $125/tire if I can help it, but want something that has mileage longevity, too. So, with this in mind, would you all please give me some suggestions. I have been reading and reading the site, but with so much to choose from. . . you get it. Tire size? Thanks

I recently put new shoes on my Element, Darkness. It had Falken 215/75 R16 and I went with Pirelli's Scorpion A/T 225/75 R16. They don't rub, they handle great on all kinds of surfaces and they climb good, too.:D

By the way the Pirelli's were $480 installed with road-hazard warranty.

Does anybody know if increasing tire size would nil my warranty? I would like to change the tires to 225/70/16 which are slighty wider and taller than stock. I'm concerned because I know that large tires change the reading on the speedometer and odometer.

Does anybody know if increasing tire size would nil my warranty? I would like to change the tires to 225/70/16 which are slighty wider and taller than stock. I'm concerned because I know that large tires change the reading on the speedometer and odometer.

I doubt it highly. While a dealer could suggest that the larger tires caused the problem, it would be hard to prove in court, because it's not a much larger size.

I had rear differential problems, with it leaking, and the dealer never mentioned that I had 225/70/16 tires as a problem.

I've been to six different dealers for oil changes, etc. and the only thing I get are "nice tires".

I honestly wouldn't worry about it, if you have more than one Honda dealership around you, cause they're competing for your business (they make a decent amount of their money off of warranty work) that they would give you any issues with such a slight modification.

Thanks alot. I find that the stock 215's look to skinny for our beloved box. Do you find that your 225's frame out the profile of your Element? I'm looking at Toyo Open Country A/T 225/70/16.

Thanks alot. I find that the stock 215's look to skinny for our beloved box. Do you find that your 225's frame out the profile of your Element? I'm looking at Toyo Open Country A/T 225/70/16.

Judge for yourself, these are the BFG's All-Terrain T/A K0's

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/emulous/element/elementwrackandbfgsmall.jpg

Thanks again. We are buying our new tires tomorrow. We're going with the Toyo Open Country A/T 225/70 R 16.

i live just north of toronto and i just got me a set of winter honda pilot rims (steel) w/bfg a/t ko 225/70/16 for $908.00 w/tax, and can't wait till it comes down hard. not as noisy as i thought they would be, but steering feels more responsive and handling is alot tighter. i do alot of snowboarding and some off-roading in the summer (fishing, beach vball, campin, cottage, etc.) so this set up works good for me. i'll post some pics in the near future my e looks mean now!!:D

Thanks for this great topic, I found it very useful in my selection. At 64K I changed to the Geolanders on the stock rims and it has indeed transformed the handling of the E.

Ordered a set of Geolandars from www.discounttiredirect.com (http://www.discounttiredirect.com) and should arrive on friday $340.00 total shipped. (85 each which included free shipping!)

I would have bought from Tirerack but they are on backorder unless you want to pay 60+ for shipping (80 each).

I still made out.

The mounting will cost me $10 a tire at a local honda dealer, so I think it will be a sweet deal overall.

This is vexing! :shock:

I'm ready to upgrade the tires and want the best possible snow traction with superior rain grip and the least road noise. I'll be going to the mountains (well, mid-Atlantic style "mountains") to snowshoe this winter.

With the Miata it was all about wet and dry and the Toyo T1-S was an easy choice.

For the E, am presently leaning toward the Toyo Open Country A/T or the Yokohama Geolander (based on the recs here). Was interested in the Nokian WR but it appears not to come in the E stock size. I have chains for the stock size tire and don't want to have to buy new ones.

Snooped around some more this evening and am now leaning toward the Michelin Cross Terrain SUV, or the Michelin LTX M/S. Apparently they are exceptionally durable, quiet and great traction in snow/wet/dry. And this was a very informative thread at a Lexus forum.

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t15783.html


Will be ordering whatever I choose from Craven Auto & Tire in Alexandria because they were consistently terrific with the Miata.

So please keep posting your experiences with tires because the insights are appreciated by those of us shopping. :) I'vejust decided to call Craven in the morning and get a quote on those Michelins. I'm tired of shopping and there is snow in the forecast. I'm hoping we get a lot this winter!

Hiker Chick, I had some of the same interests you had in a tire--snow traction, rain, and quiet. Add to that tread life. I just bought the Michelin LTX M/S last night, feeling that was the best all rounder for these purposes. It was raining very hard as I drove the 25 miles home, so I can't say too much about quiet. They had very nice wet grip--I noticed no problems whatsoever.

The only thing I might do different is have the white lettering go on the inside of the tire. I put the lettering on the outside and it looks a bit much--at least for my tastes.

I've read all these threads here about tires, a lot or reviews on Tirerack's website, and I hope these Michelins are as good as they are cracked up to be

Largely based on input from this discussion group, I bought the Michelin LTX M/S about 4000 miles ago. Reasonably quiet tires. I believe that my gas mileage may have dropped slightly from what I got with the original Goodyear tires, but the Michelin tires have been performing well in the snow we've received around here in the last week or so. Overall no complaints.

where are you geezer? could you give a bit more info on snow driving with the michelins? that was one complaint that stood out at tirerack.com.

based on hiker chick's recommendation, i priced them and they would cost me $610 locally.

i had been thinking about getting the nokian WR SUV, but maybe i should reconsider based on the appearently good treadlife of the michelins. i wish tirerack carried the nokians, since then they would let them in their rating system. i'm curious what kind of things people would say about them, and how long they would last.

where are you geezer? could you give a bit more info on snow driving with the michelins? that was one complaint that stood out at tirerack.com.

based on hiker chick's recommendation, i priced them and they would cost me $610 locally.

i had been thinking about getting the nokian WR SUV, but maybe i should reconsider based on the appearently good treadlife of the michelins. i wish tirerack carried the nokians, since then they would let them in their rating system. i'm curious what kind of things people would say about them, and how long they would last.

If you read through quite a number of the reviews, there were mixed responses re snow. Some folks felt the tires were great in snow. I didn't make it out to the mountains today, but hopefully next week, and I'll let you know.

I'm going to join Costco just to buy the Michelins (Cross Terrain SUV 225/70/16). :shock:

My usual place for tires quoted me $199/each.

Costco quoted $150 each, including installation.

That $200 savings will more than cover the Costco membership.

I knew from Internet research that $199 was absurd and had told my usual tire place to call me if they could come up with a much better price. They did, but too late. Still not as good as Costco and I had switched alegiance by then.

Pays to research, that's for sure. :) And while $150 is a lot for a tire, the Michelins come with a 65,000 mile guaranty and countless real-life testimonials about how great and durable they are. The $150 is going to be a bargain.

Unfortunately, we've got snow in the forecast so there is probably a long line for tires and I'm not that desperate for them so will wait until the sun comes out later this week.

Like you Hiker Chick, I'm a-cruisin' for a snowy bruisin' in these alabaster-capped mountains. Called Discount Tire here in Washington for the Nokian WR in the 225/70/16 (based on recommends from this group). The sales rep raved about the quality of the Nokians and confirmed that once installed, even in my 2WD, I'll be able to go most anywhere.

He's agreed to sell them at $142 a piece... I'll be getting them installed on Saturday. With Washington-gawd-awful taxes and install price, the total will be about $670. Ouch, ok steap, but I'm justifying with cost-per-use (and my life).

I don't think I've been driving THAT long, but I can remember getting premium tires for my Prelude for under $400 not but... well, OK, ten years ago.

I'll be selling my four-month-old Goodyears on Craigslist... have NO idea how much to sell them for?

Like you Hiker Chick, I'm a-cruisin' for a snowy bruisin' in these alabaster-capped mountains. Called Discount Tire here in Washington for the Nokian WR in the 225/70/16 (based on recommends from this group). The sales rep raved about the quality of the Nokians and confirmed that once installed, even in my 2WD, I'll be able to go most anywhere.

He's agreed to sell them at $142 a piece... I'll be getting them installed on Saturday. With Washington-gawd-awful taxes and install price, the total will be about $670. Ouch, ok steap, but I'm justifying with cost-per-use (and my life).

I don't think I've been driving THAT long, but I can remember getting premium tires for my Prelude for under $400 not but... well, OK, ten years ago.

I'll be selling my four-month-old Goodyears on Craigslist... have NO idea how much to sell them for?

most tire dealerships will give you some nominal trade in value for tires with tread on them, which might be easier than trying to sell them and maybe only get a bit more.

The nokians are pricey, but that big grin on your face every time you drive your Element armed with these awesome tires, counts for something too!

They are more than I usually spend on a tire, but I think I am hooked on them now.

I have just replace teh stock Goodyears with
Yokohama Geolanders G051
Size - 225/70 R16
Cost - $98 per tire.

These tires are a much needed upgrade. The old goodyears were OK but, myself and others felt they were undersized, and they were. The larger tires give the Element a much more masculing look and stance while offering a larger contact patch on the pavement equaling improved handling. I have not heard the sound many others have noted with the Yokohamas, I have found that they offer a quieter and smoother ride than the Goodyears.

What I am hearing from all of you is the following:

1. IF YOU ARE REPLACING ALL FOUR TIRES THE BEST REPLACEMENT SIZE THAT WILL FIT ON THE EXISTING RIMS IS 225 70/16.

2. For all season wear, The Michelin LTX or Nokian WR are the best tires to use. (Please advise if you have other choices).

3. The 225 70/16 will not cause any rubbing or any other problems.

Thanks, Greg


2003 Element EX 50K miles. "The Dukemobile"

What I am hearing from all of you is the following:

1. IF YOU ARE REPLACING ALL FOUR TIRES THE BEST REPLACEMENT SIZE THAT WILL FIT ON THE EXISTING RIMS IS 225 70/16.

2. For all season wear, The Michelin LTX or Nokian WR are the best tires to use. (Please advise if you have other choices).

3. The 225 70/16 will not cause any rubbing or any other problems.

Thanks, Greg


2003 Element EX 50K miles. "The Dukemobile"


It'd be more accurate to state that the Michelin LTX and Nokian WR, in 225/70/16, are very highly regarded by many EOC members. And if you surveyed those would rank at or near the top.

You'd likely be happy with either.

Others are happy with other tires, in other sizes, for aesthetic reasons or usage.

I'm blissfully happy with my Michelin Cross Terrain SUV tires (very similar to the LTX) in 225/70/16.

Thanks again. We are buying our new tires tomorrow. We're going with the Toyo Open Country A/T 225/70 R 16.

did you ever buy them? please share a pict...
tg

11407

Wheels: Stock for now
Tires: Cooper Discoverer H/T

Certainly better than my previous tires, far far better grip, i live in florida, so never really need them for snow, but they are awesome in the rain, i drove home yesterday in a 6 hour lashing storm on i-75, no probs at all.

Can i hear more from people how have bought new wheels for the element and especially those that then put on low profile tires, i'm looking to put on 18" whiles with low profiles, anyone got any good experience here?

I just put on 18x7.5 +42 Axis Wheels with 245/55/18 tires, no rubbing at all, and it rides like a dream, i couldn't be happier, the roads were slick with rain today and i was whipping around corners that i wouldn't dare do the same with stock, and it was great.

I'm going to join Costco just to buy the Michelins (Cross Terrain SUV 225/70/16). :shock:

My usual place for tires quoted me $199/each.

Costco quoted $150 each, including installation.

That $200 savings will more than cover the Costco membership.

I knew from Internet research that $199 was absurd and had told my usual tire place to call me if they could come up with a much better price. They did, but too late. Still not as good as Costco and I had switched alegiance by then.

Pays to research, that's for sure. :) And while $150 is a lot for a tire, the Michelins come with a 65,000 mile guaranty and countless real-life testimonials about how great and durable they are. The $150 is going to be a bargain.

Unfortunately, we've got snow in the forecast so there is probably a long line for tires and I'm not that desperate for them so will wait until the sun comes out later this week.


i thought costco won't put anything on your car that isn't OEM size?

i know some other members complained they wouldn't....

i thought costco won't put anything on your car that isn't OEM size?

i know some other members complained they wouldn't....

Which is why I ended up buying them at NTB.

:)

SportMAX 962 18x7.5 38mm offset powdercoated 40% gloss black.
Toyo Proxes ST 255/50R18

No rubbing. 40mm would probably be a little better, as they wouldn't stick out as much, but I still like the way they look.

i'm not a big fan of 18"s cause i like more rubber on the road, but those look nice with the black powdercoat.

Thanks, but I'm curious what you mean by 'more rubber on the road'? I don't believe the contact patch of a given tire diameter/width is affected by the diameter of the wheel?

*moondog*
Nice e.
I like the vibe,,,
it is really comes off BLACK Black,,,
cool stuff

I like the black EX better than the EX-P. I was thinking of getting similar rims for my E.

As I live in Southern California where 99.9% of my driving will be on bone-dry streets and highways, I'm looking for "car like" tires for my Element. So far, I can find only knobby A/T and M/S tires in stock sizes. Anyone have any ideas or recommendations?

As I live in Southern California where 99.9% of my driving will be on bone-dry streets and highways, I'm looking for "car like" tires for my Element. So far, I can find only knobby A/T and M/S tires in stock sizes. Anyone have any ideas or recommendations?

You'll see in this thread and others that there are roughly two types of Element tire shopping in terms of usage: 1) rough roads/snow; 2) highway/mild weather

There are, in my estimation, two categories of aesthetic emphasis: 1) off-road look (rugged); 2) street rod look (low-profile tires)

And there are the value shoppers who simply want a tire that will last a long while, minimize road noise and do both for the least possible expense.

Oodles of info on all these if you search the forum.

For durability, dry performance and quiet -- I can vouch for the Michelin Cross Terrain SUV tires that I have. I bought them as much for their snow capability but we have had virtually no snow since I bought them. The Michelin LTX tires are neck-and-neck with the Cross Terrain. They are expensive but last a long while.

For purely street use, cornering ability in dry and wet, and their aggressive tread pattern, I loved Toyo T1-S Proxes on my Miata. But they are expensive and don't last very long. People are using them on the E.

Good luck.

Spend time researching at www.tirerack.com (http://www.tirerack.com) -- especially the "survey" section.

I got all season car tires falken zeiu(i think) 235/60/16 for $66/tire at discount tires direct and free shipping too.

You'll see in this thread and others that there are roughly two types of Element tire shopping in terms of usage: 1) rough roads/snow; 2) highway/mild weather

There are, in my estimation, two categories of aesthetic emphasis: 1) off-road look (rugged); 2) street rod look (low-profile tires)

And there are the value shoppers who simply want a tire that will last a long while, minimize road noise and do both for the least possible expense.

Oodles of info on all these if you search the forum.

For durability, dry performance and quiet -- I can vouch for the Michelin Cross Terrain SUV tires that I have. I bought them as much for their snow capability but we have had virtually no snow since I bought them. The Michelin LTX tires are neck-and-neck with the Cross Terrain. They are expensive but last a long while.

For purely street use, cornering ability in dry and wet, and their aggressive tread pattern, I loved Toyo T1-S Proxes on my Miata. But they are expensive and don't last very long. People are using them on the E.

Good luck.

Spend time researching at www.tirerack.com (http://www.tirerack.com) -- especially the "survey" section.


I read through the entire thread before posting, and still couldn't find exactly what I was looking for, possibly because it doesn't exist. I've been eyeing Michelin LTX Pilots from Costco, but they seem to have a more "squared off" tread edge than I anticipated needing. I haven't seen them in person (my local Costco only had the M/S version), but it looks like they may be my best bet, unless I opt to deviate from the stock size.

Thanks for your help - I appreciate the input.

Also of note:
Not that I would ever buy a set of stock Goodyears again, but the tread on the Wranglers on Goodyear's website seem more agressive that what's on my Element now. Anyone have any idea why that is?

I read through the entire thread before posting, and still couldn't find exactly what I was looking for, possibly because it doesn't exist. I've been eyeing Michelin LTX Pilots from Costco, but they seem to have a more "squared off" tread edge than I anticipated needing. I haven't seen them in person (my local Costco only had the M/S version), but it looks like they may be my best bet, unless I opt to deviate from the stock size.

Thanks for your help - I appreciate the input.

Also of note:
Not that I would ever buy a set of stock Goodyears again, but the tread on the Wranglers on Goodyear's website seem more agressive that what's on my Element now. Anyone have any idea why that is?

What about the yokohama Geolanders for a compromise tire?
Moderate price, not as aggressive looking, not quite as good under all weather conditions, but seems to get decent reviews.

Yes, I think I've narrowed things down to the Yokohama Geolandar H/T-S (G051) or the Michelin LTX Pilot.

Thanks for the help!

Hello,

I am a new member and have just purchased a 2wd EX MT. I am moving to the E from a 1998 chipped Audi A-4 and will be going for an immediated wheel/tire upgrade. I have read all of the archives on this site but still have some questions. Looking for high perf summer tires. Any thoughts re: 235 vs 245 50 18's? Some have said that the 235's do not protect the wheel rims from curb scrape. From what I can see a good bang for the buck might be Kumho ECSTA ST's. Any suggestions are very much appreciated.

Johnbay

My '04 EX just picked up a big screw in the tire -- and since I had 28K miles on the original Goodriches, I went over to Costco and picked up four new Michelin LTX M/S all season tires.
Obviously I noticed a much smoother ride, less road noise, straight tracking -- all those good things you get with new tires. I'm convinced that i like them, since i paid that much .... :?

Location: Tempe (Phoenix) Arizona
Cost: US$524.13 (includes all the usual mount, balance, stems, etc etc)

I have a question for the people with 18" rims in either 7.5" or 8" width: Did the turning radius on your Ele change? I appreciate the tremendous turning radius on my Ele and wouldn't want to change it even if it did look cool. Holla back. CG

I have 18x7.5's and i've never noticed anything, if anything its just more fun b/c the E really sticks to the road with less body roll when you are making U turns and such

FYI:

I had some Yokohama ES100's in the garage for another car. A flat in the E made me use them...the results were spectacular.

Tire: Yokohama ES 100 (Under $100 each delivered from Tire Rack).
Size I used was the 225 x 45 ZR16 95W. They are a lower profile than stock and are undergeared by about 10%.

Plus:
Result: Great off the line accelleration
Lower center of gravity
Teriffic "stick" ( watch the hot-rod import guy's mouths drop as you leave them at any cloverleaf....)
Stiffer road feel
Much better steering input.

Minus:
Speedo off by about 6 mph (reads fast)
Gas milage down by about 10%

Otherwise a very good buy with great results.

I bought some Nokian in January, 2006
They now have 4000 km on them.

We have a long winter up here (Yukon Territory) and I was not impressed or comfortable with Goodyears that came with the Element. Our roads aren'tso great, the have a rough surface to them. The GY were sloppy and didnt hold the road. I was really surprised how much hydroplaning they had in the rain.

Wheels: Stock

Tires: Nokian WR
Size: 215/70/16. Same as the orginal units
Store: Kal Tire. Great Service... Good Price
Price: $145 each (Canadian)
Warranty from Nokian: Tread is covered for 100,000 KM (60,000 miles)
Usually dealer items: free rotations and balance every 10,000 km, free plugs...

Thoughts:
Much better tracking in snow, slush and rain
Quietier
More traction, better handling

I can't tell if I am getting the same milage since we are still having winter and everyone's gas milage goes down

Cheer

Another option, if your needs are mostly street/highway, is the Yokohama TRZ, which is an all-season tire. It is available in 235/60X16, which is a bit wider and slightly shorter than the stock size. Many on this board have used this size without problem.
Tirerack owner reviews on thsi tire have been very good for ride noise and handling; just not a great tire for snow.
Good luck

2003 4wd EX
Wheels
- DZ, Kilo
- 18, 7.5, +40 mm
- 25 lb. shipping weight
- Ebay, $453 including shipping

Tires
- BFGoodrich, G-Force
- 235/50-18
- Tire Rack, $300, $42 shipping (this size only is on special at the time of this post)
- $86 to mount and balance locally
- Only been on a week but I love'em. No rubbing, turning radius should be the same as the wheels turn lock to lock without contact. 40mm offset seems just right, not sticking out or too far into wheelwells. Tires are slightly noisier than stock but track well and stick great (maybe a wrx's chubby bro), at least on dry road. I've seen mixed reviews about this tire and snow, but at the price, couldn't pass them up (still have the stocks for the winter anyways). Diameter is almost exact at 9 more rotations per mile according to Tire Racks specs, so the speedo should be fine. I haven't filled the tank yet to check the mileage. The hardest part has been picking a tire pressure!

One note: With the Kilos, and other rims I've seen, rusty rotors and calipers will be a lot more visible than with stock wheels.

Hope this helps
16471

I've been running mine at 34 frt and 36 rear. I tried lower and it was a big difference in the feel.. I would recommend this as the minimum pressure and go from there,Tim

Anyone reading this that needs tires...thats over 1/2 off !!!!!! I paid $152 each and thought I got a good deal!
__________________

FYI. I found and ordered a size tire I have not seen mentioned here before .They are 225 65 17 Goodyear tripletreds. I wanted a larger dia. tire and rim that was a snow tire and a street tire and they have very good reviews.
I originally going to get 235 65 17 like some others have used but read that some people have had fitment problems if the tire has square shoulders. These are 28.5 dia. which is the same as the 225 70 16 a lot of people install.
There is a 3 week leadtime because they have just started production in this size. I am going to mount them on 17 x 7 +42 gunmetal rims. I hope they fit because the shops around here say if they mount the tire it is considered used and cannot get a refund. I will post pics when they are installed.:)

I never go offroad and live in a summer tire kinda state. So, I'm leaning towards a 235/60/16:

Anyone tried the $66 Kuhmo ECSTA ASX (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=ECSTA+ASX&partnum=36VR6EASX&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes&place=0)

or

the $61 Kuhmo ECSTA KH11 (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=ECSTA+KH11&partnum=36WR6KH11&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes&place=2)

The latter does not have a great treadwear figure @ 280, but looks good to me overall.

I'm lucky to have a local shop using Corghi mounter & Hunter balancer that charges $15 + $2 for mounting, balancing & stem per tire. $45 ships all 4. $357 gets the entire job done for the KH11.

Anyone have 'em or have a friend, etc. who does?

FiAsco, I just put 235/60x16's on my 2004 EX AWD. I also live in a state where winter driving doesn't involve much snow (Arizona).

I went with Yokohama TRZ all-season passenger tire, it has an interesting tread pattern and 80,000 mile tread life. I am not sure about the Kumho models you indicate, but they are usually about 40,000 in life. The UTOG has a wear rating of 700.

I was out the door with lifetime balance, road hazard, new stems tax etc. for about $520.

Good luck

FiAsco, I just put 235/60x16's on my 2004 EX AWD. I also live in a state where winter driving doesn't involve much snow (Arizona).

I went with Yokohama TRZ all-season passenger tire, it has an interesting tread pattern and 80,000 mile tread life. I am not sure about the Kumho models you indicate, but they are usually about 40,000 in life. The UTOG has a wear rating of 700.

I was out the door with lifetime balance, road hazard, new stems tax etc. for about $520.

Good luck

Thank you for your input. Good for you. Sounds like you got what you wanted. However, it appears we have different goals.

I have not traditionally preferred high milage tires as I don't like their braking or cornering performance. I actually prefer a lower tread life rating for the increased performance. So, the lower tread life ratings of the referred to Kuhmos are actually a plus for me and what I'm looking for.

Great point to bring up as not all will investigate the tread life issue and implications for same, but they should.

I was looking at tire reviews at Consumer Reports and they had the top rated car tire as the Goodyear Assurance TripleTred. It had really high ratings in nearly every catagory. Sort of a super tire. I checked around and found it didn't seem to come in a size for the E. ...but There is a Goodyear Fortera TripleTred that comes in 225/70-16. The tread looks nearly the same with only difference at the edges. The Fortera TripleTred is an SUV tire. It is pricey at $148 at Discount Tire but if it is that good I'd spring the extra bucks. I also found this in the stock size for $134 at Tire Rack. This is not the "HL" tire I've seen discussed here before.
Anyone know anything about this tire?

I was looking at tire reviews at Consumer Reports and they had the top rated car tire as the Goodyear Assurance TripleTred. It had really high ratings in nearly every catagory. Sort of a super tire. I checked around and found it didn't seem to come in a size for the E. ...but There is a Goodyear Fortera TripleTred that comes in 225/70-16. The tread looks nearly the same with only difference at the edges. The Fortera TripleTred is an SUV tire. It is pricey at $148 at Discount Tire but if it is that good I'd spring the extra bucks. I also found this in the stock size for $134 at Tire Rack. This is not the "HL" tire I've seen discussed here before.
Anyone know anything about this tire?

The Assurance Triple Tred are working well on my wife's Accord, but she doesn't put on much mileage or do much in the way of difficult driving though.

But certainly no complaints. Their grip is similar to my Nokian WRs on my Element, but the Assurance does have a higher mileage rating.

Ordered the Kumho ECSTA ASX @ 235/60/16 from Tire Rack. Total delivered (not installed) price is $309.70. Installation will run $15/tire.

Should ship today. Should have ‘em tomorrow. I’ve got an appointment set for Thursday morning to have ‘em installed. I'll let everyone know how I like 'em once I've driven 'em for a while.

Ordered the Kumho ECSTA ASX @ 235/60/16 from Tire Rack. Total delivered (not installed) price is $309.70. Installation will run $15/tire.

Should ship today. Should have ‘em tomorrow. I’ve got an appointment set for Thursday morning to have ‘em installed. I'll let everyone know how I like 'em once I've driven 'em for a while.
I ended up going with Kumho Solus and they seem great. Let us have a driving report on the Ecsta tires when you get some miles on them.

just bought the stock honda pilot wheels, goodyear integrity. very happy so far, vast improvement over my crappy wranglers (which I got to 60000 miles believe it or not). just FYI I got them in San Antonio, Texas for $70 a pop which I think is a good price. Not sure if its a national sale or not.

I just got back from Discount Tire, where I picked up a set of Kumho 716 Solus P235/60R/16 99H BSW

These are a marked improvement over the stock Goodyear Wranglers I had. Much less road roar... you dont' hear much from the tires until around 65-70mph, where they do make some sound, but much less than the wranglers.

Since these are a lower profile than stock, cornering is improved. It feels much more confident around corners than the flabby wranglers. You do pick up a little bit more road feel, but not so much to be bothersome.

Overall I'm satisfied. I have owned Kumho tires before and have been pleased with their price/performance.

On with the pics...

http://static.flickr.com/75/165805666_07f569ff90.jpg


http://static.flickr.com/50/165805619_64b1980792.jpg


http://static.flickr.com/45/165805474_dd62bf33a0.jpg

I have read the entire thread (whew). My head is about to spin off. What tire size has the same profile as stock but is a bit wider. I want to get away from the 215 tires. I would like a good grip on wet/dry roads but not a stiff or noisy ride. I don’t do any off road driving and it does not snow very often in Birmingham, AL. I am leaning towards the Michelin LTX Pilot. Would this tire fit my needs?

Profile is the second number in the size description, e.g. 70 on the stock size. This is the ratio (percentage) between section width (1st number) and height (radial distance from wheel to tread). So overall tire diameter is
(section_width * profile/100)*2 + wheel_diameter (all adjusted for units)

225/70/16 and 235/70/16 sizes have the same profile, 70% as stock, but the tire diameter is 2 and 4% larger.

If you want the same overall diameter, but with a wider tire, you'll have to do a bit of math, or look things up in a table or calculator.

215mm *70% = 150 mm
235mm * 65% = 153 mm
235mm * 60% = 141 mm
225mm* 70% = 157mm

So a 235/65/16 tire would be pretty close to stock in overall diameter (about 1% larger). I suspect selection is better in the smaller 235/60/16 size, but I haven't looked at those sizes recently.

paulj

Yep, the tires are lower than stock but not that much lower. They will lower your Element about 3/8 inch. They are about 2.7% smaller in diameter. This means when your speedometer reads 65mph you are actually traveling closer to 63 mph.

This tire size is within the magic ±3% rule that is found on many tire web sites. It seems that motor vehicles can usually tolerate a ±3% change in tire size. I might guess that this size tolerance is within the normal wear, inflation (PSI), manufacturing, or design tolerance of tires.

The 716 Solus P235/60R/16 is inside that window and thus is probably a choice that the Honda engineers would bless.

There was a posting once were someone analyzed the effect on fuel economy. As I recall the EOC member's fuel economy actually improved contrary to normal thinking. (Smaller tires increase engine revolutions per mile.) The EOC member or some commenting reader suggested that the lower ride height improved the "Aerodynamics" of the normally "barn door-like" Element. Another wondered about arithmetic error caused by the wrong odometer readings. The odometer just counts revolutions and assumes some average tire diameter. Thus the driver covers 2.7% fewer miles than the odometer reports. I forget the final conclusion, but if you see a tiny increase in MPG it probably means that there is no real change.

Anyhow the Solus P235/60R/16 sounds like a fantastic choice. They also look good. Please post a follow up on them once you have 2,000~5,000 miles on them. I think alot of members (like me) would be interested.:neutral:

06-14-06

Just purcahsed a '05 EX .... Still getting use to it, after driving my Subaru Outback for 5 years....
Anyway.... the stock Wrangler's suck, to no ones surprise. But what to replacae them with???
I drive in South Georgia and North Florida. So just rain to contend with.
Have seen good comments from the:

1.) Yokohama Geolander H/T-S G051 (Road noise at 70 -80 and reporst of losing %10 on gas mileage.)
2.) Goodrich Long Trail T/A Ranked 11th in Tirerack Geolander ranked 5 or 6th I think.
3.) Falken's ZE-512

ANY help and advice would be appreciated. Thanks. David Miller
Lake Park, Ga.

David, I put Yokohama Avid TRZ tires on my 2004 EX in size 235/60x16. Great riding tire, quiet and does very well in wet conditions. If you want to go slightly wider and slightly smaller, this is a good choice. Rated TOG at 700 and warranty is for 80,000 miles.... They are not an extrememly hard rubber tire, they handle well.

I have the Geolanders on my truck and they have more of a tire noise than the TRZ tires do. The TRZ is a passenger all-season tire; if you are looking for more off-road capability, go with an A/t tire.

Here is a link to my post with a picture of the tread pattern:
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23036

Well, here is my report on my new Kumho Solus KH16 225/60/17. They corner great. They seem to grip nice. They are quiet and smooth on smooth pavement. They wander all over on the highway. Way more! It feels a little like I have a very heavy trailer hooked to the back. I am open to ideas. It seems unlikely it is an alignment problem. Everything was fine with the Wranglers. I've tried various tire pressures. I think Discount Tire will make a deal on a swap but I'd like to have some ideas on what to switch to. Note I have 17 inch rims and I'm planning to run snow tires on my old rims so...I'm looking for nice handling and smooth riding. With no twitching wandering!
Help!
S

The Yokohama Avid TRZ comes in your size, though Discount may be selling the Avid V4s in your market, can't tell. I had to use an independent to get the TRZ. I saw the tire is available in that size on TireRack.
There have been comments about wider tires matching with slotted pavement cuts, I have not had that experience.
My experience has been very good, since the tire has three zones of tread, which (in theory) gives you ride, handling and water channeling sections.
Good luck

Well, here is my report on my new Kumho Solus KH16 225/60/17. They corner great. They seem to grip nice. They are quiet and smooth on smooth pavement. They wander all over on the highway. Way more! It feels a little like I have a very heavy trailer hooked to the back. I am open to ideas. It seems unlikely it is an alignment problem. Everything was fine with the Wranglers. I've tried various tire pressures. I think Discount Tire will make a deal on a swap but I'd like to have some ideas on what to switch to. Note I have 17 inch rims and I'm planning to run snow tires on my old rims so...I'm looking for nice handling and smooth riding. With no twitching wandering!
Help!
S
Without going into a lot of techno crap the tires will probably stop the wandering after you get a couple thousand miles on them. As to tire sizes etc. "If you change to a significantly larger/smaller tire size the front end alignment should be checked". Check this site for tire size versus tire size www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html:) if that doesn't work just search "miata tire size calculator"

First time here :arrow: i got a 05 E-BOX and I've been reading posts on tires for about a week or so and Im still a little unsure which tire to get since my originals had enough. Dring on HWYs in south Florida... so hot and rainy...
Im thinking about Avon Ranger TSE 235/65 R16 .. not much reviews on them yet but they have UTQG 720 AB and nice grades on wet, dry and noise.

Anyone has any inputs on these tires?

also looked at geolanders 051
Kumhos
and more

Thanx

I just had the Honda dealer put on Firestone Destination LEs on Saturday (7/1) at 40K, and am more than pleasantly surprised. The element rides much more smoothly and is extremely quiet compared to the original Good Year tires. I did go up a size to P225/70/16 with no problem. I should have done this several years ago. Just my inputs, all have a safe 4th of July.

2003 green element EX, front wheel drive

Firestone Destination LE
P225/70/16