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VTEC problem: Code P2646 (also 2647, 2648, 2649)

587K views 620 replies 224 participants last post by  ajchien 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Well, my dear EOC friends, I have had my first problem with my Element after 96,000 miles.

While driving down the road the other day, my malfunction indicator lamp came on. I instantly thought it was my gas cap, so I removed and reinstalled it and took off again, but I started cutting out and losing power. I instantly thought it was an 02 sensor, plugs, wires, or cat. convert. so I took it into Autozone this morning to have the code pulled and got [PO2646 Rocker Arm off or stuck] code. I had never heard of such a code, so I took it to my dealership for them to hook it up and see what they found.

I was wondering if anyone else has heard of this code or has any clue what could be the possible cause. I'll keep you updated.
 
#2 ·
Re: Malfunction Light and Code 2646

BriBoy01 said:
Well my dear EOC friends I have had my first problem with my Element after 96,000 miles. While driving down the road the other day my malfunction indicator lamp came on. I instantly thought it was my gas cap so I removed and reinstalled it and took off again but I started cutting out and losing power. I instantly thought it was an 02 sensor, plugs, wires, or cat. convert. so I took it in to Autozone this morning to have the code pulled and got [PO2646 Rocker Arm off or stuck] code. I have never heard of such a code so I took it in to my dealership for them to hook it up and see what they find. I was wondering if anyone else has heard of this code or has any clue what could be the possible cause. Ill keep you updated.

According to the service manual code 2646 is for rocker arm switch (VTEC oil pressure switch) low voltage.
 
#366 ·
Re: Malfunction Light and Code 2646




According to the service manual code 2646 is for rocker arm switch (VTEC oil pressure switch) low voltage.
This is second ele for me but first time with P2646. So here is what I did first. I checked all 3 screens. Don't forget the one behind the power steering. I was stumped all were clear. Then I checked voltage. Everything checked out. Code says VOLTAGE but instead I focused on what other mechanics told me....pressure. Ugh. Changed pressure sensor, spool valve assembly and still had limp mode at 2800rpms.Had 2 mechanics tell me to just sell it, "its a pressure problem" , both said the engine was done. I was willing to give up yet. Why? This happened out of the blue. I has just bought from a local. All records indicated dealer work was done on time so why would motor be blown? I wasn't buying it. Studied all this threads, talked to multiple Honda Techs, no one had anything different than what I had done...still limp mode. Ugh. On a fluke, I went back to the voltage verbiage in code manual. decided to change every single fuse in the fuse box under the hood as a start. Guess what?!!! She was back to running solid a few seconds later....but no yet consistently. Here was the pattern I noticed....process of elimination pointed to a 15amp fuse on the line with a 10amp. I am pretty sure its somehow related to the ECU but frankly everyone is calling it something different. If I pull that fuse and start car without a/c blower or radio on, she runs like a clock...80mph no issue no code. As soon as I shut her down for a few hours, I get the code again. So back again, I pull the fuse, wait a few seconds and put back in. I start with no a/c and radio....I go 80 miles at 75 mph 3.8rpms. No code. So, I don't have the EXACT solution yet but a partial one....it is voltage related and somehow to this 15amp fuse. Cost was under 2,00. I'd start there next time! In mean time anyone have any ideas on what the cause is? Could this be related to the ECU? What am I not doing correctly to reset? If it doesn't reset, could there be a relay issue?
 
#3 ·
vtec pressure switch

I have the ussual problem of the Element bogging down at 4,000 rpm's. I took it to my dealer and the code is the "V-tech pressure switch" They told me it was $65.00 for the switch and $210.00 to install it.Is this the same as the oil pressure switch? Where is this switch located and How much does this switch truley cost. I do need to get this done, but I do not want to be ripped off. They want about $80.00 per hour.

I bought my element brand new in 2003 and now have 76,000 miles on it. Any input would be appreciated.
 
#4 ·
same prob...

I've had the same problem and they said the code showed that it was the vtec sensor, so they replaced the switch/sensor. Did the same thing after the replacement, so they said it was the fuel pump, replaced that. Still doing the same thing. Now they say it may just be a bad connection or cylanoid.....hit and miss sure hurts the pocket book. Of course min's out of warranty :(
 
#508 ·
same prob...

I've had the same problem and they said the code showed that it was the vtec sensor, so they replaced the switch/sensor. Did the same thing after the replacement, so they said it was the fuel pump, replaced that. Still doing the same thing. Now they say it may just be a bad connection or cylanoid.....hit and miss sure hurts the pocket book. Of course min's out of warranty :(
That is from the VTEC solenoid Honda installed. Less than a week later the p2646 issues started again and I took it to my local shop. Granted I live in a city and there are lots of Elements still on the road here and many go to his shop. Before I could open my mouth about a solution, the mechanic said your screen is clogged. I guess he was right and Honda was lazy since it has been driving OK since he worked on it. Also, I really don't think he flushed the engine 3x but he is an old man so I will let him have his glory.
i changed the solenoid, screen and a bunch of other stuff- kept happening. THEN i got an oil change- all fixed- i was shocked- its been 6 months and smooth as silk.
 
#5 ·
V-tec control switch - acceleration problems

I had my Element in the dealership twice in early December to have the V-tec control switch replaced and then the next piece up the food chain as well. Well, today the same problem happened - at 60 mph on the freeway, accelerated and lost power. This is the third time in < 2 months, anyone else having similar problems? My E is around 70k miles. Regular maintenance, oil changes, etc, so I'm trying to figure out if it's a bigger issue (i.e. lemon) than just dirt causing the clogged screens (at least that's how they explained the cause to me last time).
 
#406 ·
V-tec control switch - acceleration problems

I had my Element in the dealership twice in early December to have the V-tec control switch replaced and then the next piece up the food chain as well. Well, today the same problem happened - at 60 mph on the freeway, accelerated and lost power. This is the third time in < 2 months, anyone else having similar problems? My E is around 70k miles. Regular maintenance, oil changes, etc, so I'm trying to figure out if it's a bigger issue (i.e. lemon) than just dirt causing the clogged screens (at least that's how they explained the cause to me last time).
  1. My 2004 Element was leaking oil profusely from the VTEC . I purchased a replacement from Advanced Auto Parts. I have no oil leak but the same problem your having. At about 3000 rpms I lose power. I am going to the Honda dealer to purchase a new VTEC. Will let you know.
 
#7 ·
ramblerdan said:
They said a clogged screen caused components to fail?

Did they say the VTC strainer or the VTEC Solenoid Valve filter was clogged? In either case, the manual recommends changing the engine oil and filter at the same time to prevent further contamination. The VTC Oil Control Solenoid Valve also appears to have screens that could clog.
what do you know, i changed the oil and filter last night and it's fine. took it on the highway to try and recreate the problem and nothing. took my son to school this morning and the engine light was off. thanks!
 
#8 ·
Vtec oil sensor problem

I didnt have this problem till I hit a deer and had the vehicle fixed and they said the Vtec sensor had a recall and they replaced it for nothing since its a recalled part. Now year and half later getting the same problem and they replaced the sensor again saying the oil needed to be changed which I had changed 3 weeks prior to the problem showing up. The Honda dealer said the screen was cloged and they cleaned it and said to change the oil again which I did. IT STILL HESITATES AT 3000 RPM after all this!! But I noticed it doesnt do the hesitation until after it is heated up from driving for about 5 minutes. Wish there was some way to bypass that sensor totally and get rid of it!!
 
#432 ·
Vtec oil sensor problem

I didnt have this problem till I hit a deer and had the vehicle fixed and they said the Vtec sensor had a recall and they replaced it for nothing since its a recalled part. Now year and half later getting the same problem and they replaced the sensor again saying the oil needed to be changed which I had changed 3 weeks prior to the problem showing up. The Honda dealer said the screen was cloged and they cleaned it and said to change the oil again which I did. IT STILL HESITATES AT 3000 RPM after all this!! But I noticed it doesnt do the hesitation until after it is heated up from driving for about 5 minutes. Wish there was some way to bypass that sensor totally and get rid of it!!
I have the exact same problem on my 2005 element (110k miles ) I've replaced the VVT asy (sw and solenoid ) twice ,first time fixed it for 6k miles ,second time only a few days . The other screen they talk about on the front of the engine is new too. My oil is new and it's been changed 2 times to fix the problem to no avail.
Did you get your problem fixed and if so , what fixed it ?
 
#10 ·
HELP: OBD Codes - What is Wrong?

2003 Element E, 57,000 Miles, auto trans, I just bought 125 miles ago and the check engine light is haunting me already! I thought I got it fixed with a gas cap but no such luck! :mad: I ran an OBD II and got several codes. I hope somebody can pinpoint the problem. I'm guessing coil packs but it's just a guess based on nothing but gut feeling and no experience. The codes are as follows:

P2647: Bank 1 Stuck on Actuator A

P0301: Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected

P0302: Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected

P0303: Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected

P0300: Random Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
 
#329 ·
2003 Element E, 57,000 Miles, auto trans, I just bought 125 miles ago and the check engine light is haunting me already! I thought I got it fixed with a gas cap but no such luck! :mad: I ran an OBD II and got several codes. I hope somebody can pinpoint the problem. I'm guessing coil packs but it's just a guess based on nothing but gut feeling and no experience. The codes are as follows:

P2647: Bank 1 Stuck on Actuator A

P0301: Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected

P0302: Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected

P0303: Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected

P0300: Random Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
MacGyver, I have the P03010, P2647, and the P0172 codes coming up on my 2006 Honda Element EX 2wd, automatic transmission and have replaced plugs, coils, and oil pressure switch. Will die on me at first start up of the day until it runs a while and then runs ok. But my rpms will not go to 4000 at 80mph like they should. even at 70mph they are about 3100rpms and won't kick in. My problems sound a lot like yours were. Did you ever fix your issue?
 
#11 · (Edited by Moderator)
The P2647 is a VTEC pressure switch high voltage DTC. It may be as simple as needing to replace the switch (P/N 37250-PNE-G01).

The switch is the part indicated as #12. You'll need a deep 22mm thin wall (non-impact) socket to replace it. You should replace the o-ring with the new switch (#15)

Make sure you check your oil level ASAP as some VTEC DTCs are set due to a loss of oil pressure due to low oil levels.

The misfire DTC's can be disregarded until the VTEC system is operating correctly.
 
#12 ·
Well, I took it back to the dealer where I bought it and they told me it was the oil pressure switch. They replaced it and sent me on my way. Check engine light came on again within 8 miles! :-x I'm going camping this weekend so I'll check and post the new codes this coming Monday.
 
#13 ·
The dealer where you bought it? A non-Honda dealer, right?

I hope that they replaced the correct pressure switch.

Did you verify your engine oil level? If your fault is NOT due to a faulty pressure switch, or an electrical circuit fault to or within the PCM, then it is either a bad VTEC control solenoid, sludge clogging the oil circuit OR low oil pressure / oil starvation.

Good luck!

JD
 
#16 · (Edited by Moderator)
If the fault is not due to either a bad pressure switch or a wiring harness problem, then the PCM is either sensing high voltage on the oil pressure switch feedback circuit because there actually is oil under pressure within the VTEC hydraulic control circuit when there should not be any pressure, or the PCM is internally faulty causing it to incorrectly sense high voltage.

Oil pressure in the VTEC hydraulic circuit is verified to the PCM by high voltage on the VTEC oil pressure switch feedback circuit. An open circuit (unplugged sensor, broken wire, open contacts within the pressure switch) or a feedback circuit shorted to another voltage source, results in high voltage on this circuit.

It is actually pretty rare IMO for a Honda PCM to 'go bad' on it's own. Most often the fault will be found elsewhere.

This really is a pretty simple circuit in the way it operates, and shouldn't be difficult to diagnose with a scan tool that can read Honda specific data parameters. Most non-Honda repair facilities will have scan tool capabilities to view the SAE mandated generic parameters, which would not include the VTEC system data parameters, so it will be a little more involved to diagnose.
 
#18 ·
Successful Repair for DTC P2646

On Christmas day my son was driving his 2005 Honda Element up a mountain road when the MIL came on. At first I thought he might have a transmission problem but after checking everything seemed fine. The engine would not rev over 2500 RPM. I scanned for codes and it came up P2646. I replaced the VTEC Oil Pressure Switch, cleared the codes and took the car for a test drive. After driving about one mile, the MIL came back on. The same code, P2646 came back.

I called a friend who happens to specialize in Hondas and he suggested that I clean the screen that is located in the same housing as the VTEC Oil Pressure Switch and Solenoid. The screen is designed to stop debris from getting into the Solenoid and VTEC Oil Pressure Switch. Upon removing the screen, I found it to be very dirty. I cleaned it with Brake Cleaner and Compressed Air and the car is running great now.

It is extremely important to keep the oil and filter changed regularly. I hope this helps anyone else who encounters this problem.
 
#19 ·
I just searched for the same Code on my newly acquired 2005 Element. (Since I am a 30+ mechanic) I'll give you my opinion of what's wrong. After reading about 10 posts on the same problem, I'm going to say it's your it's the Valve Timing Solenoid (located on the passenger side above or oil filter enclosed in a L shaped heatshield thing with two electrical plugs on top). Clean the solenoid and filter, reset the CEL and try it again. Some people have replaced the Vtech Oil Pressure Switch and still had the Code but it went away after cleaning the filter/strainer. I'm going to change the oil and filter and clean the pressure switch filter. The part is the same on most all Vtech engines. One of the web Honda dealers sell the part for $41.00.
37250-PNE-G01 SWITCH ASSY., VALVE TIMING OILPRESSURE ( No Color) 55.17 41.38

I've also seen a Moderator that said if the Battery Voltage is low that it can throw some funny codes.

Capt. Mike
 
#391 ·
I just searched for the same Code on my newly acquired 2005 Element. (Since I am a 30+ mechanic) I'll give you my opinion of what's wrong. After reading about 10 posts on the same problem, I'm going to say it's your it's the Valve Timing Solenoid (located on the passenger side above or oil filter enclosed in a L shaped heatshield thing with two electrical plugs on top). Clean the solenoid and filter, reset the CEL and try it again. Some people have replaced the Vtech Oil Pressure Switch and still had the Code but it went away after cleaning the filter/strainer. I'm going to change the oil and filter and clean the pressure switch filter. The part is the same on most all Vtech engines. One of the web Honda dealers sell the part for $41.00.
37250-PNE-G01 SWITCH ASSY., VALVE TIMING OILPRESSURE ( No Color) 55.17 41.38

I've also seen a Moderator that said if the Battery Voltage is low that it can throw some funny codes.

Capt. Mike
Is that one piece?? What is the 37250-PNE-G01. And is that the oil pressure switch itself??? Also is the switch the same as the solenoid??? I need help! The Honda place told me there’s the Rocker Arm Oil Pressure Switch And there’s the V-Tec Valve Assembly??? Does the valve assembly have the screen(s)???? Should I replace both pieces or just the pressure switch?????
 
#20 ·
I believe this code can be thrown when the ECU is trying to engage VTEC, but the solenoid does not respond... this can be caused by bad solenoid, or low oil pressure.

Just to confirm, did you say that you did an oil change and the light went away? If so, I am wondering if perhaps your oil level was low prior to the change, thus causing an low pressure situation.
 
#21 ·
Hi, It is on the back of the cylinder head on the passenger side. If you look down where the power steering hose bracket is mounted on the valve cover you will see the spool valve assembly with 2 connectors surrounded by a heat shield. It is attached to the head by 3 M6 bolts. I personaly would change the whole assembly which includes the valve,oil pressure switch,heat shield and gasket/screen. 1st honda Parts and Honda Parts Cheap charge $77 for the whole assembly and $40 for just the oil switch. I don't see any problem in changing this part......Just clean mounting area,place gasket/screen in place,make sure you don't cross thread the 3 bolts and torque to 7.2 lbf.ft
 
#22 ·
Broken vtec!

Well i have the p2646 code and my car won't rev past 3000rpm. I bought a new vtec oil pressure switch for $72 and it didn't fix the problem :-(

I'm assuming i should try cleaning out the screen that is before the switch but i'm not exactly sure how to get to the screen. Can someone point me in the right direction? Is it possible that the screen is blocked or would this be a waste of time?

I know this is a common problem and there are many threads about this but i rarely read about how the problem was ultimately corrected.


Thanks for any help
Steve
 
#25 · (Edited by Moderator)
15810-raa-a03 "valve assy., spool"

I ordered 15810-RAA-A03 "VALVE ASSY., SPOOL" (#4 in this image below as I understand it.) My part is literally in the mail, when it arrives I'm hoping it includes #5-6, 12 &15). When ording online it was honestly hard to tell.


(everything pictured under 4: 5,6,12,15, which includes the VTEC Solenoid Valve)

To be clear, it does not include #7,8,10, or 11 which is the VTC Oil Control Solenoid Valve or VTC Strainer. (Which would be a place to suspect for P0010, P0011, and P0341 according to my 2003 service manual.

When I looked at Service manual, any time it was oil pressure switch is taken apart to inspect or clean I needed the a new O-ring, regardless. So I have put off even that inspection yet.

#12 pictured,-The oil pressure switch being a common replacement, and the whole assembly a near last step. I'm <i>far</i> from a expert mechanic, but if I'm going to take the time to get it out, spending $74.12 to cover (3 potential problems) in one fell-swoop sounds good to me. (~and sounds reasonable after some extensive web research on this site amongst many others.)

Just checked the tracking on my part and looking like it should arrive tomorrow, so hopefully in a few days I'll have some more meaningful experiences to share on the subject.

With P2647, some people have just replaced the oil pressure switch and been fine; so you may consider that intermediate step also.
 
#26 · (Edited by Moderator)
Still waiting for parts

While I wait for my parts, came across this Service news bulletin from Honda that discusses the trouble codes (P2646, P2647) and repair strategy. Nothing too earth shattering, but interesting for basic documentations sake.

http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SN/A050300.PDF

Not sure why Honda felt the need to include this in a bulletin, as replacement of the VTEC oil pressure switch is in the standard troubleshooting (at least for P2647). Must be a higher failure rate item, or maybe they are trying to save techs and customer some time and money with a quicker service strategy.
 
#27 ·
All working now

Just finished replacing the whole assembly. Was pretty strait forward, looks like I took care of my p2647 code and problems that came with it.

I found it was easy to unclip the wires standing on a small stool looking over the engine. Taking off the passenger side wheel gave good access to the solenoid assembly ~comes off with 3 accessible bolts.

The only mildly annoying thing was the extra cables in the area being zip-tied to the unit.

I noticed my solenoid assembly had a faint rattle inside (but the new parts did not), perhaps that was my problem. The oil screen looked Ok, I didn't bother checking out the old oil pressure switch, a new one came with the assembly.
 
#28 ·
Part prices

15810-RAA-A03* (VALVE ASSY., SPOOL ) is $74.12 plus shipping from http://www.hondapartsnow.com Includes, filter, o-ring, oil pressure switch, vtec spool valve. Pretty much just un-bolt the old one, put the the new one.

I didn't opt for just the oil pressure switch 37250-PNE-G01*, it would have been $40.79. Seem to be mix results floating around the web for just replacing that with the p2647 code.

*(Part numbers are for my model/year, I'm not sure how much they vary between years.)
 
#29 ·
the two things that i've seen cause this code are low oil level, and a bad vtec pressure switch. 9 times out of 10, it's a customer who's 2000 miles overdue for an oil change, and they're over a quart low.

i've also seen a few leaky vtec solenoid gaskets aka spool valve gasket. check that too.
 
#30 ·
code 2646 me too

My question is what is code 0011-camshaft position actuator bank 1 timing?

here some of the story....
i have an 03 and let the oil run very low like at least 2-3 quarts low. i did not realize it was low until i noticed the engine malfunction lite on. so i brought it in for an oil change and they checked for the codes, which were code 2646 and code 0011. they changed the oil and cleared the codes.

the car ran fine before, except for a "clunk sound" one time about 3 weeks prior to oil change. it is driving fine and the engine light hasnot reappeared.

should i be concerned about code 0011 camshaft?

not sue if i am asking this question in the proper location.

thanks for all replies
 
#31 ·
P2647

Experienced misfire and power loss this morning. Actually searched threads and got help from everyone. Took bougie311 advise and bought complete assemby at dealer and I was able to install the assembly in just over an
hour. My cel is still on and my ScanII still says code 2647!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Went on test drive and engine performs perfectly over repeat of route I took this morning when I had mis fires on several occasions. I have tried to "clear" code with the scanII but the light is still on. Is there some way to clear CEL that I am missing??? Thanks for all your help.:?
 
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