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not satisfied with my sound after upgrading my head unit and speakers

3K views 29 replies 6 participants last post by  ayf 
#1 ·
after putting my polk components in front and coaxials in the rear and upgrading my head unit, i feel like the sound is suffering if i don't turn the volume up over the half way point. is that a case of the speakers being under driven? would an amp solve this or would i have to keep the volume up high even with an amp?
 
#2 ·
Can you elaborate on whats got you disappointed? The E is an insanely loud vehicle inside from road noise, wind noise, and panel vibrations. Its no surprise that you need the volume up louder to fully enjoy the dynamics of music, and the higher power speakers mean the volume on the deck needs to be just a little bit higher also to get to a similar volume because of the speaker's reduced efficiency. (lower efficiency at the cost of greater power handling and capability)

The issue could also be install related. I dont know how well your speakers fit or how you mounted them, but the OEMs had a perfect snug fit into the door panel. To get the most out of these speakers you need to mount them better than the OEMs were, which means a little more work than just screwing them into the plastic.


There is no such thing as under powering a speaker, if there was then no one would ever be able to turn the volume down without risking their speakers. ;-)
What most people equate to under powering is actually hard clipping, where the volume is driven past what the deck/amp can provide cleanly, which can very quickly overheat a voice coil and kill a speaker (even one rated a lot higher in power). Typically never an issue unless you have the volume pegged & still want more, at which point you need to turn it down a bit & then find some amps. (or larger)
 
#3 · (Edited)
i feel like i'm almost missing a whole dynamic range in the middle unless its cranked. it could be the noise inside the cabin is drowning it out. as far as mounting goes i used a small metal bit to drill through the plastinc and into the sheet metal behind and drove the screws through the speakers and into the metal. i may need longer screws for the front however so i'm going to try and get those and remount.

i never have the volume pegged, as it would be way to loud but i find myself at about 3/4 and it starts to get very "bright" however i'm worried that if i attenuate the tweeters down 3 db on the crossover i'll have difficulty making out anything at lower volumes. it just seems like at low volumes i could actually hear the old crappy LX system better.

reading that other thread you're posting in i'm now also wondering if i should even drop this stock sub in place. i just ran the power cable the other day, but maybe i should use that power for a 4 channel amp
 
#4 ·
Have any pics of the speakers & how you installed them? Luckily the grills just pop right off, and pics would really help.

The lack of midrange you are experiencing is the same thing my E had when I bought it, which was poorly installed speakers. (not saying you did it wrong or anything)
The door opening is not very friendly to aftermarket speakers, and is probably a part of the issue. I could be wrong though, which is why I would like to see pics.

Are the speakers wired correctly? Are you sure the polarity is correct on all speakers?
Is the speaker polarity correct behind the radio too? With a single speaker wired backward you can almost kill any low end sound, which was also the case with mine when I got it. It sounded HORRIBLE, and then fixing polarity issues made a little bit of a difference, and then revisiting the speaker mounting made a huge difference.

Do you have the "loud" feature on/off on the deck? If its on (some do by default) it can do similar things to the sound, by boosting highs & lows at low/mid volume which would make a weak midrange sound even weaker by comparison.
Try using the EQ to raise various regions of sound and see if you cant get it to sound a little better, but mostly record what freq range seems to be your problem area.
 
#5 ·
i'll try to take a picture tomorrow. i've turned off the loudness and the seating position to try and diagnose the problem. i was very careful with my wiring however it is always possible i made a mistake. may have to get in there with a meter and check the leads to be sure. i tried to get cute with the wiring so i wouldnt' have to run anything through the door. basically i have the harness from the radio goign extended to the kick panels where the cross over is and then back to the car harness for the door mid. i want to shorten these up eventually but i'm having trouble finding a place to put the fairly large cross overs near the center console.
 
#6 ·
This may help to show what will fit under the stock panels when mounting speakers. Always test fitment before making anything permanent. Get some CLD Tiles as well and seal the doors up. The E as mentioned is horrible with cabin noise. The 03 I had was night and day compared to the 07 SC I now have. Even then, after the installer was done with the 07 SC, it again was night and day. In the 03 I had to yell to talk to someone, in the SC especially now, I can hear a whisper.



 
#7 ·
was really hoping i wouldn't have to go through all that modification to solve this. i don't feel like i had to turn up the stock system as loud as i do with the aftermarket. going to check the fitment of my front speakers in the morning
 
#9 ·
nope i have an LX... all being run off the sony head unit
 
#10 · (Edited)
You dont need to pull the door panel & deaden the doors to get better sound.
What Ive done in the past is pop the grill off & with care & a sharp utility knife carve out the plastic around where the speaker mounts. Stay away from the points where the grill clips in & it will go right back on afterwards & no one will ever see the install.
Then just cut out a couple wood rings very similar to RobDobbs pictures. No need to carpet them but sealing with spray paint can go a long way. Then mount the wood baffles & speaker directly to the door metal, and you will notice a dramatic improvement in sound.

The new speakers need a lot more power than the OEMs did, your new deck is putting out more power than the OEM but that bump in power is smaller than the bump in demand your new speakers have. That make sense? Reinforcing the speaker mounting (wood baffles) will improve the speakers efficiency and get you a little more output in the process. Like trying to jump on a treadmill that is on a larger treadmill, the speaker mounting needs to be rock solid to get the most impact from the cone. Any panel flex basically absorbs the cone movement, reduces its output.
 
#16 · (Edited)
The new speakers need a lot more power than the OEMs did, your new deck is putting out more power than the OEM but that bump in power is smaller than the bump in demand your new speakers have. That make sense?
This is absolutely correct. Better quality speakers are built more "robust", they can handle more power and play louder. However, they need to be played at a certain minimum level to sound good. If you really enjoy listening at very low levels, the OEM speakers may be better for you. Are you using the OEM grills or have you installed the Polk's grills? If you're not into bass, you can try using those foam speaker enclosures, they will "force" more of the sound from your speakers into the cabin.
 
#11 ·
i think i'm going to give that a go in the spring. should i use MDF for the baffles or plywood? MDF would probably be easier to get cut... i have a feeling in the spring i'm going to get that 75x4 fosgate we've all been talking about and use that for the front and stock sub... just run the rears off the head unit. or maybe i'll drop the sub and run cable to the rears. not sure yet
 
#12 ·
It's possible that your speakers are wire electrically in phase but are acoustically out of phase. A simple experiment would be to wire your left woofer backwards and see if the sound improves. It won't hurt anything and it will either be better or worse.

Also, where is the tweeter mounted in relation to the woofer? If the tweeter and woofer are both playing the same frequency (near the crossover point) and the two speakers are different distances from your ear, the same frequency arrives at your ear at different times. This time delay can cause different kinds of audio anomalies.
 
#13 ·
i put the tweeter in the stock location which was probably a mistake. but it looks good in there for now and i don't want to have to buy new A pillar covers right now so i'm putting everything on hold.

i'm confused what you mean electrically in phase but acoustically out of phase.
 
#14 ·
What he means is electrically you have them wired right (none backward), and Acoustically as the sound waves travel through the air there can be a point in space where the sound waves can collide out of phase (backwards of each other).
This happens when you have speakers next to each other, and as the distance increases the freq that can be cancelled out (acoustically out of phase with each other) comes down.

For example, a 20,000hz(20k hz) sound wave is .68" long. If you put a mic 0.68" away from one speaker & 1.02" away from a second speaker (wavelength & a half), the 20hz tone will cancel itself out in that little pocket of space where the mic was strategically placed. If you put the mic equidistant to both speakers (say .68" from each) that same 20k hz tone will have twice the amplitude, because the sound waves will be aligned & stack together.

Now .68" is pretty tiny but 20khz is also hard to hear for many people, but say 10,000hz which is easy to hear has a wavelength of 1.36", or 3000hz which has a 4.5" length, or 1000hz which has a wavelength of 13.6", or 500hz which has a wavelength of 27". In theory its easy to account for, but in practice it can be next to impossible, because you have so many reflections off surfaces, and a few more than just 2 speakers.

I think this would be something to look into AFTER revisiting the speaker mounting & using MDF baffles. (1/2" or 5/8" would be just fine & fit well btw)
 
#15 ·
Simply put. You can underpower a speaker, that's why they have sensitivity ratings and power requirement suggestions. If you need to turn up your HU to get decent sound, I believe you need more power or more efficient speakers. For every 3 db increase in loudness, you need to double your power. If your speaker has a sensitivity rating of 85 db, you will need 4 times the power of a speaker with a rating of 91 db to get the same loudness. How softly you play has nothing to do with lack of power.
With the speakers in the doors and you sitting in the driver's seat, I doubt you have any sound cancellation.
Simple out of phase test. Put fader all the way to front speakers, balance in middle. Put your head by center console, if bass in nonexistant, speakers are out of phase. Do the same for rear speakers. Final test, put fader in middle, same with balance, put head equidistant from all speakers, you will hear if front is out of phase with back or visa versa. In which case, you just need to change wiring on front or rear speakers.
I have 6" speakers in front, no spacer. Rear has spacer due to using 6 1/2" speakers. I have components in front and coaxial in rear, no problems with sound. I have "Dynamat" and sound absorbing foam in doors, because the doors are a metal "can".
 
#17 ·
good info. its not that i enjoy listening at low levels, its more that it seems like i have to blast them to hear the full spectrum. i'm going to cut out the plastic and mount with the MDF eventually. any suggestions on cutting the MDF? do i have to get a router?
 
#19 · (Edited)
Jigsaw & a rasp work just fine for the DIYer and will get it done quick. Finish it with a 100grit paper if you want it prettier. A router will make for a nicer looking baffle, but if youve never used a router before it may be a challenge.

Here is a pic of what mine looked like with 5/8" MDF, I didnt have to remove the door panel either.

Cover grill snapped back in place no problem.
I currently have 3/4" MDF baffles with much bigger speakers (still 6.5" just more powerful), and while it was a much tighter fit it still came out fine.
 
#21 ·
Not really sure what you are asking. (& those Focals are long gone)
I have a Pioneer deck powering nothing.
I have a Fosgate PBR300x4 powering my front components & rear mids (no tweeters).
I have a PG Ti600.2 powering a single 10" in a ported box tuned to 28hz.

Eventually I will add another amp or find a 6ch I like so I can run the fronts active (no tweeters in the rear).
 
#23 ·
what's a good brand for the baffle?
 
#25 ·
so no worries about water? i thought that's the main reason for them (and the plastic baffles that are built into the E's door
 
#26 ·
Oem speakers will die at the sight of water, they are untreated paper.
The Polk actually marine rates their equipment, but most aftermarket speakers will survive a little moisture contact, which can happen in a very heavy rain storm or if you leave the windows down & it rains.

I've never had issues with moisture ruining aftermarket speakers. The foam baffles are supposed to act as enclosures that also keep out water, but function horribly as enclosures. Unless you drive through a LOT of water regularly, I wouldn't worry about it.
I would paint the MDF baffles though, humidity can cause it to swell and paint will help combat that. Your speakers are fine as is.
 
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