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Differential Fluid Change Info

575K views 524 replies 256 participants last post by  Rdawg 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
This info has been around for quite a while, but I figured it was time to put it together w/ some pictures.

If your car makes funny rumbling vibration type noises in tight turns....you prolly need the diff fluid changed. It may feel like the vibration or noise is coming from the front or steering, but listen closely and see what you can feel in the steering wheel and/or seat. It is common in parking garages, parking lots, and very tight turns in and out of driveways. If you feel or hear this vibration grumbling moaning binding noise you should change the rear differential fluid. Honda keeps changing the maitenance interval, but many owners report trouble in 30k miles or so.

key words for search: rumble vibration diff diferential differential rear dual pump II fluid front rear vibe

Following are some instructions and pic for anyone interested in what is involved in changing the rear "differential pump fluid” of an Element (or CR-V)

First things first…I’m not a mechanic…nor do I play one on TV. Be safe...wear safey googles, set the parking brake and use a wheel chock and sunblock and a condom. This info is free…and you get what you pay for so here we go…


You’ll only need a few basic tools:
1. A 3/8” drive ratchet handle for loosening and tightening the plugs.
2. Drain pan…. nothing fancy, just has to hold 1.1 quarts.
3. Pump or Funnel…you’ll need to get the new fluid into the diff.
4. You might want to put the vehicle up on ramps to make access easier and/or use some sort of pad to make sliding under the car easier.



You’ll need 1.1 quarts of Honda “Dual Pump Fluid…figure on about $7/quart. *Note-this has been replaced by "Dual Pump II," you shouldn't mix the two fluids, but version II can be used in older Es as version I is discontinued* Seem a lot like ATF to me…but diffs are expensive and I don’t wanna take any chances. You can look for an alternative product if you want, but it ain’t out there so just suck it up and give the $15 to yer local Honda stealership. You might wanna get replacement sealing washers while your there. I skipped ‘em ‘cause I’m such a rebel.

Lets get started….

This is what it looks like under yer E....looking forward:



This is the rear differential as viewed from just inside the left rear wheel:

Note the two plugs, upper and lower.




To loosen the plugs you’ll need a 3/8” drive ratchet handle or similar. The square hole in the plug is the same as the rachet handle so you won't even need a socket. If yer vehicle is older you might wanna hit the plugs w/ a bit of “penetrating lubricant” (I like CRC 3-36 or KROIL) a while before attempting to loosen them.

Loosen the fill plug first…the upper one. It does you no god to drain the fluid if you can’t refill it afterwards. Mine is only 3 years old but they "cracked" loose. Take yer time and be prepared to use some creative language if yer rachet handle is short.

Loosen and remove the lower (drain) plug. What happens next is no big surprise…red fluid drips out into a pan. If you’re using ramps you might wanna drive off the ramps so the vehicle is level for best drainage.


This is what the plugs look like once removed.....note the 3/8" square drive and (aluminum?)sealing washer:
(FWIW....I've heard these were 20mm....but I measured 'em at 19mm w/ a 1.25 pitch...very odd size)


Now that all the fluid is out you gotta put some back in…

Replace the lower plug. Clean it off and snug it down nice and tight. See yer service manual for proper torque specs. I used a “Farmer’s Torqure Wrench” set to “two grunts.” Remember what my Mom used to say…"tight is tight, too tight is broke."

Edit-The official torque specifications:
Service manual says: 47 N.m (4.8 kgf.m, 35 lbf.ft) for both
page 15-14

You can use some sorta pump (like the one I left at work) or a funnel and some hose to replace the fluid. I used a hose clamp to affix a piece of vinyl tube ( ½” ID x 5/8” OD) to a funnel and routed the hose around the rear wheel and across the axle to the diff.



In my case, the hose fit nicely in the diff, and I zip tied the funnel to the fuel filler door so I wouldn’t spill too much.


After pouring 1.1 quarts of fluid into the funnel (or pump), replace the fill plug and be certain it is tight. You can leave it loose (or not reinstall it at all ) like the typical Quickie-Lube place, but you’ll wanna make it snug if you care about yer Element at all. (35ft/lbs like the drain plug)

Wipe off, clean up….and go have fun.

for less than $20 (including funnel and hose) you just saved yerself a whole bunch ‘o trouble. This is easier than an oil change and only needs to be done every 30,000 miles or so. Yes, yer manual says different... but diffs are expensive and a little preventive maintenance goes a long way.

Good luck, have fun....try not to poke yer eye out.

Will

Keywords: grinding vibration binding turns tight turn parking rubbing noise
 
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#419 · (Edited)
Welcome, Wtruck.

Below are the spots that Honda recommends for jacking all Elements. Since you obviously have a 4WD model, and only need to raise the rear of the car for this service, you can use the bottom of the rear differential.



As for jack stands, I put them under the lower control arms.

P.S.: Please add your location to your profile.
 
#423 · (Edited)
I just changed the rear axle and auto trans with honda dual pump II and HONDA ATF at 3 years 25,000 miles. The rear axle was o.k. The new dual pump II is certainly fresher oil, the auto trans oil was getting dirty. Don't wait for problems. The honda factory oil drain plugs are tight, use compact head 1/2 drive racket, 1/2 drive extension wobble and 1/2 to 3/8 adaper.
Hopkins FloTool 10106B/6.
 

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#424 ·
First post but glad I found this place

I have a 2004 Honda ELEMENT (5DR EX (4WD SD A/B) - KA5MT) that I bought used a few years ago. It currently has 96K miles on it and I'm getting ready to change the diff and trans fluid. Ever since I got my E there's been a knocking noise that sounds like it's coming from the front right or center. It's a metal to metal sound and is mostly heard when I go over a speed bump or drive on a gravel road and go over pot wholes...I've looked and looked and can seem to find what is knocking. Had the local shop go over it and they said they couldn't find anything either. Any ideas? Could this noise be coming from the diff? The noise almost sounds like a busted shock that is bottoming out....
 
#425 ·
I have a 2004 Honda ELEMENT (5DR EX (4WD SD A/B) - KA5MT) that I bought used a few years ago. It currently has 96K miles on it and I'm getting ready to change the diff and trans fluid. Ever since I got my E there's been a knocking noise that sounds like it's coming from the front right or center. It's a metal to metal sound and is mostly heard when I go over a speed bump or drive on a gravel road and go over pot wholes...I've looked and looked and can seem to find what is knocking. Had the local shop go over it and they said they couldn't find anything either. Any ideas? Could this noise be coming from the diff? The noise almost sounds like a busted shock that is bottoming out....
I would try another shop.

Also check the front struts for leaking fluid.
 
#428 ·
You guys saved A LOT of dough

I am sitting in the Honda dealership waiting room after returning 3 weeks after they changed my rear diff fluid and my differential is still making noise. I have about 90k miles and have kept up with the service.
I knew other places did it cheaper, but the service sales person said they do a flush that other places do not do and that would be needed to take care of the groaning sound I'm hearing. They quoted $260 for this! No, this is not even part of a package. Just a rear diff "flush" and refill that did not even solve my problem. I am happy to pay for good and knowledgeable service that saves problems later on, but Honda was more than 4 times more than other places and didn't deliver. Very disappointed.
 
#430 ·
After they looked again, they explained what was done was a "brandishing" which entailed using a fluid with a detergent and running the wheels on a lift with that, then flushing it out with rear diff fluid and finally refilling. They said that since it didn't help, I would need to replace the rear diff to fully get rid of the "groaning" during tighter turning. Of course that would cost over $3,000. If I had known the $260 was a shot in the dark that may or may not help, I would have just had one of the $60 changes.
 
#432 ·
There is an official "burnishing" procedure that Honda recommends if a normal fluid replacement isn't enough to get rid of noise. Details about it are available earlier in this thread.

Personally, I recommend changing the fluid, driving for a week or two and then doing the fluid again.

I certainly would try a few more fluid changes before replacing the differential!

Good luck.
 
#434 · (Edited)
I picked up one of these at O-Reilly autoparts for less than $10. Makes getting the fluid into the differential a breeze.

Wilmar W1139
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Wilmar-W1139-Quart-Gallon-Fluid/dp/B00329VL3G[/ame]





Adapts to both quart size and gallon jugs. Also comes in handy for sucking power steering fluid out of the reservoir so you have less of a mess when you disconnect the return hose when you're doing the PS fluid change.
 
#436 · (Edited)
I did this service this morning as my E just rolled over 60,000 miles. Overall, things went pretty smoothly, however I have a few comments to add based on my experience.

The first thing is I found it pretty much necessary to get the car up off the ground at least a little. I'm a pretty big guy (6'-3") and squeezing under the rear end with the wheels on the ground did not leave much room for wrenching. I made some quick ramps by stacking a couple 1" boards and screwing them together which got the car off the ground two or three inches.

Using a breaker bar to loosen the drain and fill screws is basically impossible unless by some miracle, the screws are turned just right, otherwise the handle of the breaker bar will hit the ground or the lower control arm. I used a 1/2" drive ratchet which took a little extra effort but I was able to get the screws to "pop" free. I also recommend using the longest 3/8" extension you can find (I think mine was like 10" long). There's a plastic box right by the screws (not sure what it is) which gets in the way of the ratchet.

I used the long tubing/funnel on the gas door technique described in the original post. It's a good technique but unfortunately in my case, the hose had been coiled up for a while and had set in my garage at 30 or so degrees for a few days so it wouldn't really straighten out and wanted to kink up a lot. Also, the 5/8" O.D. fits exactly in the differential fill hole, I think using 1/2" tube may allow the diff to fill a little more quickly since air will escape from the diff a little more easily as it fills with fluid. Next time around, I may opt for the screw on pumps to get the fluid into the diff.

Last, as I was buying the fluid at my Honda dealer, I saw that their rate schedule listed differential service at somewhere around $90, so definitely worth doing this one yourself. It's at the same difficulty level as an oil or trans fluid change. Thanks to the OP for this post, it was definitely helpful.

sm
 
#437 ·
Is this an AWD? Does the 2WD look like this? Does it even have this case? Please pardon my ignorance. I'm very new to car DIY stuff. Just bought 03 element ex 2wd, and have struck out on first repair (replaced bushings on sway bar--still hearing clunk). Now attempting this fluid change, but my undercarriage doesn't look like the pics.
 
#438 ·
Differential fluid change on 2wd automatic?

Is this an AWD? Does the 2WD look like this? Does it even have this case? Please pardon my ignorance. I'm very new to car DIY stuff. Just bought 03 element ex 2wd, and have struck out on first repair (replaced bushings on sway bar--still hearing clunk). Now attempting this fluid change, but my undercarriage doesn't look like the pics.
 
#439 ·
2WD will not have a rear diff, only the 4WD as that's what sends power to the rear wheels. So...if you've got a 2WD then it's one less thing you have to worry about since you do not have it! I'm in the process of changing mine out for the 1st time and came here to read up!
 
#440 ·
Without hearing the rear diff making any noise, and arriving at 68,000 miles, I thought it'd be best to change the dual pump fluid again. Last change was 35,050,(wrote it on the bottom of the differential case).

I took the chance with only one quart on the last change rather than the 1.1 quart recommended at my own peril. Well... absolutely no issue and the fluid removed was amazingly as red as the new 1.1 quarts that replaced it. (usually it is a bit brown when needing changed) Using a 3/4" o.d. hose poked into the upper filler hole and a funnel hanging on the E's open fuel door, the fill goes quite smoothly.

While I was at it, changed the wife's 2008 CRV rear diff fluid too. only difference is the filler hole is on the opposite side from the drain hole. Maybe it's that way on an 08 E also?

So, if you only have one quart of DPF and you need a change, go for it. You can always add that .1 quart, (or 3.2oz) later if the OCD is kicking in.
 
#444 ·
Hey all,
Just finished the diff fluid change. Was simple and straight forward - except that the sockets in the drain plugs were full of sand/dirt that had hardened like cement. I kept spraying them with wd40 and brake cleaner and cleaning them out with an ice pick until the wrench fit in. They cracked loose easily, but the outer surfaces looked really corroded. Here the dual pump II fluid costs about $12 per quart. Of course had to buy 2 to cover that last .1 quarts, but I think I barely used any of it before it started coming out the hole. Oh well, I've the extra .1 for the next 10 changes.

Cheers,
Rob
 
#449 ·
Buell? Sweet! Never rode one but yep, it's a weird one. I used to ride a LOT.

btw, I'm probably the worst E owner here. Changed the diff fluid for the first time at nearly 100k miles (yikes). I noticed the classic symptoms about 6 months ago and never got around to it then found this thread. Found a few tiny metal "things" in the fluid, but now runs smooth as silk. Gas mileage improved too.

btw #2 - I just changed my motor oil as well- about 20,000 miles past suggested interval. Lost a little viscosity (as usual when I run past 20k between changes) but mechanic said it looked normal (just like the last mechanic).

I really need to put some TLC into my E. It's given so much, I feel like a bad parent. lol
 
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