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Brake caliper bracket pin is stuck!

38K views 39 replies 15 participants last post by  Sadlsor 
#1 · (Edited)
I am doing a brake pad and rotor change. I was trying to lube the pins with my CRC synthetic brake grease but it looks like The Caliper bolt or pin is stuck inside the caliper bracket. I think it rusted into the side walls inside. I have tried hitting it with a hammer and spraying Liquid wrench inside and nothing. The damn thing is stuck inside. I dont think that i want to order a whole new caliper bracket as well as the Pins. Anyone ever experienced this during their brake job???????!!!!!!
Also.........does anyone know which caliper pin goes on the top of the bracket and which goes on the bottom. I remember reading somewere that the pins are specific to the top hole of the bracket and bottom????
 
#2 ·
You didn't say whether you're doing the front or rear brakes, Vpanin. The parts diagrams don't help a heck of a lot, but here they are:

FRONT
Top: Pin A, Honda p/n 45235-S9A-A01
Bottom: Pin B, 45236-S9A-A01, and bush, 45233-S01-A01





REAR
Top: Pin A, 43235-S84-A51
Bottom: Pin B, 43262-S84-A51




It looks like the upper pins have longitudinal grooves,[edit: flats] and the lowers don't. Can anybody verify that?
 
#3 ·
Unless they were installed clean and dry, and the boots were cracked, the grease would have prevented moisture from entering. The pins don't fit the bore so snuggly that they should be rusted in place. It's more likely that the grease has thickened and is creating a vacuum lock.

Caliper brake cleaner is a better solvent for caliper lube than Liquid Wrench.

Have you attempted twisting them? You can either use the flats on their outboard ends, or thread the mounting bolts back into the pins and use the hex heads with a socket wrench. Another possibility would be to remount the caliper loosely, and work a pry lever between the caliper body flange and the mount.

The front bottom pin have replaceable rubber-like seals near the inboard end. I recall the rear upper pins have a lateral flat. (I service pins one at a time to avoid accidentally switching them.)
 
#4 · (Edited)
I am doing brakes all around but The pin that is stuck is the one in the front (bottom pin). I actually tried twisting them with a wrench and one foot planted on the Bracket........still nothing. Feels like the damn pin is welded on there. What would be the damage if I just leave it as is?????
I appreciate the diagram ramblerdan
 
#5 · (Edited)
. . . What would be the damage if I just leave it as is?????
A function of the guide pins on a single piston caliper, is to allow the lateral entering of the caliper over the disc, so the two pads get equal wear.

You say that you tried hitting the pins with a hammer. Was that as if they were nails, or radially on a wrench (as if it were an impact wrench)?

If the caliper body is mounted to it, you can't rotate the pin independent of the body. The flats on the pin and caliper body act as a wrench holding them locked together.

I'd remove the top caliper guide pin, reattach the caliper to the bracket with just the bottom bolt (torque 80 lbf-ft). With the pads out, using the biggest flat screwdriver or brake tool you have, try to pry the caliper away from the top of the bracket, The screwdriver against the bracket will work as a much longer lever than a socket wrench. Try to utilize your body weight to push the screwdriver handle.

If that doesn't work, I'd take the caliper to a automotive machine shop. They may be able to use an pneumatic impact wrench to free it. If they can, they can tell if the caliper bore can be chased, or if the caliper must be replaced.
 
#6 · (Edited)
C clamp

Use the same c clamp that you use to push the piston back in the caliper , that should give you a start , then use a 17mm open end to twist the boot , once you get alittle movement then try to pull it out , don't worry , once you get past this point and actually get the pin out (taped goes on top) pack it with brake lube , then take your time , cause sometimes reseating the boot can be a pain !!!! Especially the rear boots ! You CAN NOT leave it like that , the pins act as a piston to set and release the pads while braking ......

Good luck
Guinness

Hey Dan , don't ever recall seeing a bushing on the front pin (lower) ???? I've removed them quite often , now i've got to look !
 
#7 · (Edited)
The pin w/ the "flats" goes towards the top. In the attached pic, the pin to the left is the top pin. *edit*These are from the rear. The fronts are almost identical, but the bottom one has a goofy sleeve around it*

I'm gonna recomend a new bracket and pins. It is very important that those pins move freely to keep the caliper (and pads) from binding against the rotor.

If you get it free and clean out the cylinder section of the bracket and the pin cleans up ok you might be alright. I'm guessing that the pin (and cylinder in the bracket) will likely end up very ugly/corroded/pitted.

To get it apart try mounting the bracket back on the car and using a 17mm wrench on the end of the pin to twist and free it.
 

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#12 · (Edited by Moderator)
To get it apart try mounting the bracket back on the car and using a 17mm wrench on the end of the pin to twist and free it.
Im gonna try this tomorow or they day after as my time to work on the car is limited .........plus I have another car I can use. If this doesnt work then Im done trying to mess with this thing and will buy a new bracket and bolts. Looks like around 50 bucks for everything with shipping at autozone. My car has 130k miles and its from upstate NY where they get a lot of snow. Rust was not nice to this vehicle but i had to buy it as it was the best condition element in the tristate area for 7K . I changed the shocks, sway bar bushings and links, radio, installed the keyless entry, changed all the fluids except the tranny and brake fluid which is next as well as finishing up my pads and rotors. Im hoping to drive this baby to work till it has 230k miles. I am in love with this vehicle, not so much about the looks but the many things it has to offer.....including the very very spacious interior which is what sold the car for me
 
#11 · (Edited)
OK, you have 2 choices -

a) Buy a new bracket and pins (this is how we do it @ dealer)

b) drill a small hole in the front of the caliper bracket so you can spray your choice of penetrating oil onto the cavity that holds the pin - it is rusted in - you may need to heat it as well and then you can remove the pin, clean it out, re-lube it (your choice of silicone grease is good) and then seal the hole you drilled with RTV (this is how I fix things in my own shop - unless money is no object)

Big difference between "fixing" and "replacing" parts in a car...
 
#20 · (Edited)
didnt get the parts from Autozone yet. Its been about five days and its still showing that the order is being processed. Im almost ready to call them to find out what the deal is. I got some new pins, boots, couple of anti rattle pieces that surround the pads, and I have a caliper bracket coming. My mechanic said that he thinks he can reuse the old brackets by heating up the pin to remove it. I just have to wait for my parts so I can see if he can help me reuse those old caliper brackets
 
#22 · (Edited)
It's a simpler job if you use a rational decision tree when you encounter trouble.

Re-manufactured brackets alone run around $25. I'm seeing a new caliper assembly (less pads) including bracket is about $180 for the front, $115 for the rear. Includes new pins, boots, bolts. (Slightly less if you get an entire aftermarket assembly. )

If you have to pay a mechanic to get out the old pins, how much will you be saving? If he can't, how much will you be overpaying?

What;s the cost of the vehicle not being drivable for 2 weeks waiting for an aftermarket parts?

How long would it have taken to get all the parts from a Honda Dealer?
 
#24 ·
What's the bulletin number?
 
#26 ·
The upper and lower caliper pins are different. If the top and bottom caliper pins are installed in the wrong location, it will cause uneven tire wear, vibration, and/or uneven or rapid pad wear for proper caliper pin location.

And all this time , I thought it was just the NUT behind the wheel ......
 
#27 · (Edited)
I just came across this DIY that covers most of the subject of servicing Honda brakes in great detail. Though its not specific to the Element, it covers other models with rear drum in disc parking brakes. It explains why the rear caliper pins get stuck, how to remove them and what you can do to prevent it from recurring.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rustybrakes/brakeintro.html

The FAQ of which this is part also covers "funny noises", "How do I get those silly little screws out so I can remove my rotors?" and a lot more. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html
 
#28 ·
I'm in the same boat

I’m curious to see how the original poster fared with the parts from Autozone. I’m looking at ordering the same parts from the same place.

I recently replaced my front brake pads and noticed that the front right (passenger) pad had worn very strangely. Half the pad had worn down to the wear tab while the other half was almost untouched. I went ahead and replaced the pad and went back in to inspect a week later. The pad was fine but I noticed that the bottom caliper pin was frozen solid and wouldn’t move in or out. The boot had torn and I felt rust crunching underneath it.

I took the caliber bracket off, pulled off the boot and found a terrible rusty mess. I tried twisting, pulling (open end wrench and hammer), pushing (hammer), heating (with a heat gun – not with a torch yet) and couldn’t get it to budge. I soaked it overnight with WD-40 hoping it would make life easier but nothing.

I’m going to order a remanufactured caliper bracket and a new set of pins.

 
#29 · (Edited)
I know this thread is old but I wanted to share my experience with my "new" 08 Element. Went to replace pads and rotors and found the front passenger side pads worn unevenly on one side. I found the lower caliper pin was stuck on and would not move. Here's what eventually worked for me:

re-attached the caliper bracket, full on screwed it nice and tight. Pull back the rubber fitting so it's off the top of the pin. Used an adjustable full metal wrench to turn the pin. Its square so you can get a good fit that won't slip off. It was tough to turn but with the large wrench I was able to use it like a breaker bar. Then using the same wrench, position it so its between the rubber and the top of pin. Adjust it so it's smaller than the square top of the pin. Now you have a bigger surface to hammer. Hit the wrench head close to the pin a few times. Then use the same wrench and adjust it to the square head of the pin and rotate it by one corner of the pin. Place it again between the top of the pin and rubber and hammer away. Keep doing this. Rotate, then hammer.

It took like 20 or so hits as it slowly moved out but it finally came loose and I was able to slide it out. The pin looks good but I noticed it has a rubber bushing at the end. The top pin does not. I was able to confirm this from one of the Honda parts sites in case anyone is still doubting that the caliper uses two different pins.

The pin had this black tar on it. Looks like someone used grease as lube. I heard that you should use silicone paste like the factory does, since grease and the silicone paste react to form a nasty goop that actually causes the pin to stick.

Now to need to figure out a good way to clean the inside of that pin slot. Hope this helps someone.
 
#30 ·
Yep, I know this is an old thread (similar to observation by @asinblue in 2018).
My upper caliper slider pin is frozen at the right rear. I was replacing the rear brake pads, and in removing the caliper bolts I twisted the slider pins (17mm head, IIRC) to ensure it was loose. The slider pin boot twisted with it, and I didn't want to tear the rubber boot, so I quit. The boots are still in nice shape.
Could not get that upper slider pin out, so put it all back together with new pads, and couldn't turn the rear wheel at all. Not good. Took a 4-mile test drive hoping that might get the caliper centered, and everything would slide back into place.
I must have been smoking hopium.
Back in the driveway, the actual aluminum wheel was so warm I could feel the heat on my hand, 4 inches away. The disk must have been blistering hot, but when it all cooled down the rubber boots hadn't melted.
I know what this means. That slider pin has to come out.
Here in 'bama, there is no salt on the winter roads, no snow, so my '06 E does not have rusty, corroded, nasty calipers.
106K miles on it.
Might try to crack a bleeder valve on that caliper, see if it reduces pressure.
I don't wanna have to bleed the brakes, I'm equipped to bleed my motorcycle brakes but not a car.
Haven't found a paper Honda service manual for under $100 yet. I'll keep looking...
 
#35 ·
Update. Had the E towed 6.5 miles to the Pep Boys, and they said they are also unable to remove the slider pin. Part of me says, "Damn!" while part of me says, I don't feel quite so bad that I couldn't get it out, in my driveway.
Tech said they will heat it again, and they'll likely have to replace the boot as well. Which is exactly why I didn't try the heat approach; I knew I'd destroy the rubber boot.
Before today's conversation, the cost was to be $218, which included the $60 towing fee. Maybe today / this evening, maybe tomorrow morning. If they have to find a replacement slider pin boot, then there's no telling. I didn't try to look for that piece locally.
Between the 2 rear calipers, 3 of the 4 slider pins turned and slid easily with no resistance. The sticking one appears to be in the same condition as those other 3, clean, no scratches / scars / rust / corrosion, in the portion of it that is visible.
More later as I learn the status.
 
#34 ·
Sadlsor . . . "Haven't found a paper Honda service manual for under $100 yet. I'll keep looking..."

Why do you need a paper copy?

Here's the CD copy for FAR less than $100. If you are doing a particular repair and you want to have a hard copy with you at the car, just print out the pages you need.

2003-2006 HONDA ELEMENT Body, Chassis & Electrical Service Manual CD
Is this searchable?
I've bought CD copies of manuals for motorbikes, and they're simply, or essentially, photos of each page. If not searchable (i.e., PDF format) then it's useless to me.
Seems a legit company, though... but if ya can't search for key words...

EDIT: not only that, but greasy fingerprints on paper pages are a badge of honor. On an optical disk, ...not so much. :LOL:
 
#36 ·
Pep Boys got the slider pin unstuck, by using applied heat.
They were able to preserve the original pin and rubber boot, and the total cost was the quoted $218, including the $60 towing fee as I mentioned above.
I have not gotten the time yet to actually inspect the boot, but it appears to be rolling fine now, and the wheel isn't hot like before.
No additional parts used.
 
#37 ·
Glad you got it fixed with no parts. Sometimes I don’t have the patience for that and I would probably have just replaced the bracket with new pins / boots / bolts.

for future reference, rockauto has a set of 4 rubber boots for those caliper slide pins for $3.
 
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#38 ·
for future reference, rockauto has a set of 4 rubber boots for those caliper slide pins for $3.
At 106K miles, sounds like this may be a worthwhile piece to put away for a rainy day.
Told my wife, "if I have to buy that little piece of rubber locally, it will probably be about $12, when it costs less than a buck."
Fortunately I didn't have to prove or disprove that remark, but with my luck the local Honda dealers would not have had one. They might, I don't know for sure.
 
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