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My front seat replacement Project

37K views 49 replies 16 participants last post by  DonRics 
#1 · (Edited)
So Ive started working on a front seat swap in my 04 E, and while this wont have detailed pictures or function as a DIY, it should help anyone understand the amount of work involved and if its something they want to do.
Unlike the other Honda OEM seat swaps, I will not be reusing the Element seat rails, this will be more like an aftermarket seat install and I will be fabricating my own seat bracket to bolt these new seat rails too.

I am using OEM leather seats from a Hyundai Tiburon, which I was able to snag very cheap and are OEM grade which means they pass all crash rating standards. (not the case with many aftermarket seats)


This is just sitting in place, which puts your rear end a couple inches lower than stock.

I will most likely be lifting them up slightly with the custom brackets to set the seating platform at the same height as OEM, but I will give them more rear ward movement & tilt the fronts up just a hair higher.
I think I will get a little more clearance underneath for amps as well, which will be needed at a later date. lol
These seats are sooo much more comfortable than the E seats, I cannot wait to get them installed.


A question I came across yesterday though, is WTF is this thing attached to the seat belt reciever?

My E does not have side airbags, so the seat belt should only have a SRS sensor. However this thin canister thing clearly states it contains an explosive material.



This is the assembly removed from the OEM seat


And this uses the same 14mm bolt as the Hyundai seats, so I will easily be able to mount these latches to the new seats. I will be fabbing up a front C bracket to hold the canister, and drill a small hole near the bolt hole to match the Honda latch alignment tab. Then its just a matter of trimming the plastic around it & either leave it uncovered (will be hidden by a center console I plan to build) or make my own cover piece to hide it.


So does anyone know WHY this thing contains an explosive compound?
Does my E have the rare unpublished 007 ejection seat option? lol
 
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#7 ·
Thats crazy, never would have thought such a thing. Sounds almost dangerous, but Im sure its had some serious R&D done around it.
Was really pulling for it being an ejection seat though.

I hope to get started on the brackets this weekend.
 
#10 ·
:grin: I know exactly which one you are talking about, but it didnt seem that difficult to get to so I figured you could get it. Glad to hear you finally got it up & running, and hope you enjoy it for long time.


They can be dangerous. While not a bad as an airbag they still need to be handled with care. every couple of months we have to set off airbags and buckles before we can dispose of them and the buckles make a hell of a noise when they go off.
Are retractable buckles that popular? All Ive ever set off were steering wheel airbags, but this is the first time ever seeing these.
 
#14 ·
Indeed I am aware, all car manufacturers have done so with SRS wiring.
I was just surprised to see an explosive warning label under my seat for a car without side airbags.


What years did Honda start putting retractable seat belt buckles in?
I guess Ive either been playing with OBD1 cars for way too long or just away from the modding game for longer than I thought. lol
 
#17 ·
Time for a little update.

The seat rails on the Tiburon & the Element are identical in spacing from side to side, however the mounting positions are farther forward on the E so I would loose rearward sliding travel if I kept the Tiburon seats mounted similarly.

As a result, I need the brackets to extend beyond the rear chassis mounting bolt.
The Tiburon seats are also much lower in profile which is great, because then I can raise the bracket height to get the extra rearward sliding room, it gives me almost another inch of under seat clearance for audio goodies, AND is still right at the same height as the OEMs in their lowest setting.

Ive also pitched the front of the seats up just a hair compared to the OEMs, because I want the new ones to have a nice semi-reclined seat position.

Here are the brackets as they sit now.

Still need to finish drilling the mounting holes, and weld in some bracing to really make these bomb proof. Then modify the Tiburon seat to accept the OEM seatbelt buckle (just needs a small bracket & a hole drilled) and I will finally be ready to install one of the seats.
 
#18 ·
Too bad this wouldnt work with the 2009-2011 Element. Seatbelts are mounted in the Seats.... you would have to swap everything out of an older Element. Great swap though.
 
#19 ·
Shouldnt be too difficult, I really doubt Honda spent the money to reinvent the rear door framing just to remove the seatbelt, it remained a major structural piece of the E so it still required all of the internal bracing with or without a seatbelt inside. Im willing to bet all of the connection points and openings are still present. All you would need is the upper plastic portion of the rear door where the seatbelt comes out, the seatbelt itself from the door cavity, the little plastic slider piece that rests in the upper door panel, and some little odds & ends.




$16 for door panel
$30 for slider piece
$148 for seat belt
~$12 for all of the support hardware
---------------------
$206 total per door new from Majestic Honda.

Could easily do both sides together for under $100 at a junk yard.
 
#20 ·
Shouldnt be too difficult, I really doubt Honda spent the money to reinvent the rear door framing just to remove the seatbelt, it remained a major structural piece of the E so it still required all of the internal bracing with or without a seatbelt inside. Im willing to bet all of the connection points and openings are still present. All you would need is the upper plastic portion of the rear door where the seatbelt comes out, the seatbelt itself from the door cavity, the little plastic slider piece that rests in the upper door panel, and some little odds & ends.

$16 for door panel
$30 for slider piece
$148 for seat belt
~$12 for all of the support hardware
---------------------
$206 total per door new from Majestic Honda.

Could easily do both sides together for under $100 at a junk yard.
Honda changed the part numbers on the rear doors for 2007. With out having the two doors side by side to compare it would be easy to guess that the seatbelt attachment points were left off the 2007+ doors. No addition engineering would be required. No surprise they would do this. I have seen 4-5 different wire harnesses for one vehicle depending on the factory options they came with.
 
#21 ·
Wire is completely different, a few feet of copper times a few thousand Elements & you are talking a huge amount of money being saved. The mounting for the seat belts is nothing fancy, where redesigning & retooling the machines building the doors would be a very unjustified expense to save a few inches of cheap steel.


With a quick search it looks to me that the tabs are still there ;-)
2007 SC (D2mini's E)


03 EX (Box4rox's E)
 
#22 ·
Wire is completely different, a few feet of copper times a few thousand Elements & you are talking a huge amount of money being saved. The mounting for the seat belts is nothing fancy, where redesigning & retooling the machines building the doors would be a very unjustified expense to save a few inches of cheap steel.


With a quick search it looks to me that the tabs are still there ;-)
2007 SC (D2mini's E)


03 EX (Box4rox's E)

What about the anchor points at the top of the door? Something has to be different for Honda to make two different doors.
 
#23 · (Edited)
So I looked back on Majestic Honda, and where are you guys getting this different part number business? Each model shows 2 rear door part numbers, one for a bare door frame/shell, and one complete.

The part numbers
Right Rear 67611-SCV-305ZZ
Left Rear 67651-SCV-305ZZ

& guess what, wouldnt ya know that those same part numbers are listed for both the 03 EX & the 07 SC? Seems pretty clear to me that they did not change inside.
 
#24 ·
So I looked back on Majestic Honda, and where are you guys getting this different part number business? Each model shows 2 rear door part numbers, one for a bare door frame/shell, and one complete.

#2 & #3 in that pic are $1300 (complete door)
#4 & #5 in that pic are $280 (bare door)

The part numbers for #4 & #5 are:
#4 Right Rear 67611-SCV-305ZZ
#5 Left Rear 67651-SCV-305ZZ

& guess what, wouldnt ya know that those same part numbers are listed for both the 03 EX & the 07 SC? Seems pretty clear to me that they did not change inside.

4 and 5 are just the outer skin not a bare door.

2003-2006 door shells.

67510-SCV-A90ZZ and 67550-SCV-A90ZZ


2007-2011 rear door shells.

67510-SCV-A80ZZ and 67550-SCV-A80ZZ

It would only ever matter if some one wanted to convert to door mounted belt.

The outer skin is the same for all models. It is the actual complete door that is different. If was a betting man i would say that the mounting point for the upper belt attchment is missing.

Where are we getting our info? We both sell Honda parts for a living.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Well Im a gamblin man, and I say if there's already picture proof the lower mounting points carried over, there is a very good chance the top points did too. Anyone care to settle this by popping off their top panel piece?

Although I do see wiring going to that door seat belt, so it may not be quite as straight forward of a swap. Guess it sucks to be you newer E owners. lol
 
#26 · (Edited)
So getting back ON topic, today I bolted the new DR seat to the freshly painted rails and the fit is quite nice.



From the back the seat heights look about the same, but the new seat actually sits lower by an inch or so.


This pic kind of shows the height difference


And this is what the rails I fabricated look like.




The seat slides back a little farther than the OEMs which is nice, but they need a little more height in the front to get more rearward tilt in the seat cushion. When slid back completely the seat just hovers above the floor mat, I couldnt ask for a tighter fit. lol
The seats also crowd the center console a bit more than OEMs do & have a larger gap between the door & the seat. Right now my seat mounting holes & the floor mounting holes are on center with each other, but I think I will be making another set of brackets with offset mounting holes to get the seats closer to the doors & open up that center space a little more.

Still need to fab up one more piece for the seat belt to attach right.
 
#29 ·
The seats are boxy looking from the front & back, which sort of goes with the Element interior, but I think they will look much better after swapping the interior to all black. (gonna be a while before this though) They are 100 X's more comfortable than stock though, lol.


The seat looks awesome.

Did you custom make the seat rails?

I am putting civic Si seats into my element.

would love to get some rails to make the installation easier.


thanks

john
Indeed I did. I could have reused the Element brackets with a little modification and effort but my seats rocked thanks to the worthless height adjustment and I did not want to reuse those parts. I also wanted more rearward travel.



 
#32 ·
I think the only reason the seats font "look right" is two fold, were accustomed to seeing fabric box seats, they are much newer looking than everything else.

The funny thing about the E is its visually underestimated interior cabin size. They make drivers look like children! How is it sitting behind the wheel being even lower with those new seats?
 
#33 ·
Lol, aint that the truth. With only 1 phone book I can see just fine. ;-)

It is an interesting situation though, at this height they fit great & have very little space on the edges so the seats look like a great fitment. If I raise them up higher then I will have to do something to the sides so the seats dont look like they are just floating there above the ground.
 
#34 ·
Im sure you know this but seat placement is vital in "feeling the road" on a taller vehicle like the E. Its not just a question of aesthetics but practicality and safety. If I had taken count over the years of fender benders and all out accidents people that put their seats all the way back and low here in LA a calculator would be needed for a tally.

Maybe fabricate some simple plastic skirts out of ABS or styrene to help fill any potential visual offset of a raised seat? Judging from the picture it seems your at least 3" lower in the seat. Just be safe is all.
 
#35 · (Edited)
......all out accidents people that put their seats all the way back and low here in LA a calculator would be needed for a tally.
Care to elaborate on this? Are you talking slid back & reclined for a G-lean?
The last thing I want is to overlook or blindly miss something and jeopardize anyone's safety.

I wanted more rear travel for needed leg room, I still sit in an upright position. I am also still ahead of the seat belt B pillar's anchor point.

The height difference is not that big, Id say 2" at the absolute most.
I had already added an extra 1.5" of height into the front rail mount & an inch into the rear rail mount to get to the height its at now. These E seats are TALL. I have no idea how this particular height will feel until I drive the E with them & cannot try it until I get the seat belt buckle swapped over & mounted solidly, prefer not having to get an SRS light reset due to my impatience. I have had cars in the past where I have experimented with seat heights and (mildly) lower always felt more in tune with the car, but I also think going from a flat-as-a-board seat to one with much better lateral support will also make a huge difference in feeling the car, even back at stock height.

As I raise the seats I put more stress into the rail brackets in the event of an accident, essentially leveraging the seat & occupant against the bracket mounts like a crowbar.
Remedy will require much more boxing off & structural reinforcement in the bracket, and then perhaps an ABS panel to cover it up for looks. Something Im not overly excited to tackle unless I really need to. lol

EDIT: One thing I do feel I should point out is the fact that these seat rails are also slanted up at the front for rear pitch in the seat. As you slide the seat forward (ie shorter person) the seat height also increases. The drivers seat also has an adjustable height setting much like the E seat (except only the cushion moves, not the seat frame) and is in its lowest position in the pics.
 
#37 ·
I can understand that, and agree.
If you are sliding around in your seat, or not very well "connected" to the vehicle, you will never feel a subtle slip in traction. I find myself easing off in corners because I have to hold onto the steering wheel too tightly because there is nothing holding me in place. I cannot judge body roll or slip if I am pressed against the door or trying to fight lateral pull by hanging from the steering wheel (exaggerated a little of course) so I doubt I am ever even close to the limits of the E's handling. (in ideal street conditions of course)

In situations where seating improved feel has lead to over driving and accidents is probably due to them not knowing how to recognize loss of traction or too much body roll, because it felt less severe than they used to experience when THEY were fighting the lateral forces and didnt have a seat locking them down. Without support you are trying to hold back your own weight as well as try to feel what the vehicle is doing. With support you no longer have to struggle as hard to stay in your seat in a corner, which could fool someone into thinking they are not cornering as hard because the perceived lateral forces are lower.

There is no real substitute for driver ability & experience, only caution. lol
 
#40 ·
I finished mounting the seatbelt buckle to the seat on Tuesday & have been driving around for the last 2 days in the new seat and DANG (censored for Mods), I love the new feel of these seats.

The leather is nice, and the bolstering is very supportive, and the height difference is almost negligible. I wouldnt even know it was lower if I didnt use the door arm rest, which is now perfect height (was short before) and although the DR seat no longer has an arm rest, the pass seat arm rest is perfect height now. lol

I did notice a little contact between the bolt on the seatbelt buckle & the center console, so I need to make a new set of brackets where I can shift the seat closer to the door.
 
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