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Is VALVE adjustment really needed? or is it hype

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#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I'm asking because I'm scheduled for a valve adjustment tomorrow at the local Honda Dealership (BURNS HONDA) hear in Southern NJ for 199.00.

My 03 has 121,000 miles on it and runs well. Someone said that a valve adjustment will improve gas mileage is that true?
 
#66 ·
A valve adjustment won't make it run any better as the two previous posters have said. It just prevents valve damage in the case you wait to long and they get burnt because they get held open. Anyone who states that their engine starts better or they get better MPG doesn't understand how an engine works.
 
#70 ·
I just adjusted the valves on my '08 Element EX AWD automatic, which has 51,500 miles on it. Two intake pairs were at the high end of specs (.010"), two intake pairs were tight/below specs (.007"). All exhaust valves were tight/below specs (.008-.009). I adjusted all valves to the upper end of specs (.010" for intakes; .013" for exhausts). Valve seat recession on the exhaust side clearly has happened. Glad I did it now instead of waiting until valves got burned or drivability problems occurred. The engine was quiet before the adjustment, and just as quiet after. It performs the same, but it feels just a little bit more responsive to throttle input, although it's now probably performing as it did when new. Original gaskets were still soft and pliable, with no leaks, so I reused them and left the replacements in their sealed wrappers on the shelf for the next adjustment at 100K.
 
#71 ·
Ummm... yeah. If there's anything I've learned about the K24 is, if it's not running right the first thing you check is the valves. The 8th one that I bought ran like crap. Compression test was perfect but surged at idle and engine light was on with an intake leak code. Checked the valves and they were done backwards. They were all correct but backwards. Intake was set to exhaust spec and vice versa. Did them correctly, all issued disappeared and haven't had a problem since.

This was worst case but similar situations have happened with at least half of the E's I've bought.
 
#73 ·
Hi,
I just did a valve adjust and spark plug change on my wifes E at 136,000

Yea, I know should of done them sooner..

ALL of the exhaust valves were tight.

The spark plugs were put in by the OP and were Autolites.

Put in the correct NGK!

With the valve adjust and the NGK's....

The car actually purrrs it is running so smooth!
 
#74 ·
Yep, valve adjustment is needed every once in awhile. Just did my second adjustment at 220k. Very noticeable if you spend the time and adjust them correctly. My engine was sounding like it was dieseling. Started getting surging sensations too. Adjusted valves and it runs super smooth! Exh valves were all too tight. Some Int valves were loose. Can be done yourself if you are good with tools. Replace valve cover gasket and plugs at same time.
 
#75 ·
I am considering doing a valve adjustment as all the other solutions to my cold start / rough idle problem have been unsuccessful.

My question is this, can this be done by a small time fix it guy like me. I am not a mechanic by any means but i do try to fix things myself. I was considering doing the valve adjust myself but when i mentioned this to a guy at Autozone he said that this was an extremely complex job that he would not recommend trying otherwise i could ruin the cars engine completely.

So now I'm not so sure, any thoughts?
 
#76 · (Edited)
It's not very complicated or difficult. There's a great how-to on this site, as well as a how to in the Honda service manual. The keys are to do it when the engine is cold (ie park it the night before and do it the next day before you start or drive it). Also, get the right tools - you really have to have an angled set of feeler gauges such as these:
https://www.amazon.com/d/Dial-Indicators/ABN-Universal-Standard-Measuring-Thickness/B01IPWOAOQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1543455283&sr=8-1&keywords=angled+feeler+guages

There's no way you can accurately access each valve with standard feeler gauges. I also have found this valve adjustment tool invaluable for easily and accurately adjusting each valve, especially if you are doing it alone:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002Q8TU0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I also highly recommend you get an OEM gasket set for the valve cover - allegedly you can just clean and reuse the old one but I'd prefer to spend a relatively small amount of $$ to know it is new and should not leak. This OEM kit includes the spark plug tube seals and the valve cover bolt seals - again not mandatory you replace these but I'd just as soon know they all are leak free when I'm finished:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CMV8DSQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Lastly, you need a tube of Hondabond HT silicone gasket adhesive - it is required for four different spots on the valve cover/head interface where otherwise the gasket itself will likely leak - don't be tempted to use some other gasket stuff - use the Hondabond:
https://www.amazon.com/Hondabond-High-Temp-Silicone-Liquid-Gasket/dp/B006YTTV4W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1543455922&sr=8-1&keywords=hondabond+HT

Other than that, no special tools needed to do it - just a 10mm socket wrench to get all the bolts and nuts off and a 19mm socket wrench to turn the crank as you get each cylinder to TDC (top dead center). Here's a great compiled write-up that will save you reading through 9 pages in the valve adjustment thread:
http://www.ataq.qc.ca/hosted/Honda_ELEMENT_Valve_Clearance_Adjustement.pdf

I'd suggest maybe setting aside ~3 hours to do it if its the first time you do it - it really doesn't take that long but you'll want to go slowly and methodically the first time. Ignore the knucklehead from the parts store - it's not that challenging and you'll feel very satisfied when you are finished. If you decide you don't want to take it on, I had it done once at our local Honda dealer when I was in a time pinch and I think it was only about $200, so not a total bank breaker and definitely maintenance you don't want to ignore.

Lastly, if you do take it on, don't hesitate to ask questions before/during the procedure.
 
#77 ·
dgale:

I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me, it is exactly what i was looking for. i just needed someone to break it down in easily understood ;language so much appreciated.

Getting back to the issue at hand, after reading your response, I am going to give it a shot. I am going to gather all the tools you recommended and once I have them take a day to to do it slow and methodically and hopefully it all goes well.

I just don't have much else left to try as nothing I've tried to this point has solved my problem of the car not being able to stay running in the cold whether , particularly when you first start the car.

It will start right up at first , then as the idle level starts to come down the car will stall. The when i attempt to re-start the car it turns over for about 20 seconds before starting and then once I get going the check engine will flash on and off and when i check the the error codes , it says "misfire cylinder 2."

I've tried placing the coil packs, replaced the spark plugs, replaced the fuel injectors and now it is on to the valve adjustment in hopes that it will solve the problem!
 
#78 ·
Yes I'd always start with a valve adjustment if I was having idle problems, or else if it had been a long time since it was done (or I had no idea if/when it was done). Not a bad idea to make notes one what each valve is set to before you adjust them - this will tell you if any of them were excessively tight and help diagnose problems with cylinder 2 etc. This makes the procedure take a bit longer as you have to measure them before, then adjust, but I think the data is worth the extra time. Also, remember to take your time as you measure them (before and after adjustment - the E engine sits at a bit of angle and a few of the cylinders its a bit of a pain to get the feeler gauge in the right spot so it's only riding in the rocker and not pressing on something else that could throw off your measurement. I found having a stool to stand on to reach the exhaust valves made the process easier, just so you can see better back there. Good lighting helps with the exhaust valves as well. When measuring a valve, always check a gauge size above and below once you get it set - ie if you are setting an intake valve with a 0.10" gauge, once its set and it feels right with that gauge (some resistance but you can still slide it in and out), check with the 0.11" and the 0.09" as well to make sure they feel a bit tight and a bit loose respectively.

Also one more thing I should have mentioned when I posted originally, before you remove the valve cover, make sure you clean off around it well - you don't want gunk falling down inside the engine when you remove it. You can clean the engine with some engine cleaner or similar if you are careful of electronics under the hood. Compressed air sprayed around the valve cover isn't a bad idea either.
 
#82 ·
My mechanic, who is very knowledgeable and honest, (and he owns an Element) keeps telling me the same thing.

But the vast majority of what I have read one this site disagrees. And there are a lot of very knowledgeable people here too.

Valve adjustments should be done at about the 100K miles interval.

Besides, a valve adjustment can be done by most better than average DIYers out there, and it's cheap insurance against the alternative; which is burnt exhaust valves. And you don't want that!
 
#84 ·
Hi,
Well, the good news with the Honda K24 is it is a advanced world class engine made by people known for excellent engines...

The service manual says it needs a valve adjust at 110,000 miles.

Why would you take a chance of damaging you're engine by not following the service schedule of the Makers???

Just sayin!
 
#86 ·
Well.... if that's not enough let me add another story:
I was skeptical of all this rhetoric about valve adjustment even though I was suffering the classic "Stalls when Cold" symptoms (not 'cold outside' but engine cold).
Changed the spark plugs and the coil packs and still cold stalling. Read & read & read... finally took it in and had the oil changed and valves adjusted.
Needless to say, the cold stalls went away and the fuel mileage went up 2mpg.
I was driving a minimum of 500 highway miles / week at the time and had been for two years.I track my mileage by recording the tank fill volume from the pump and my odometer mileage. I figure that the numerous data points I have from doing it at all outweighs the error in the methodology. The 2mpg improvement showed up immediately and stayed consistent for months afterward, now I don't drive but a couple hundred miles a month and all around town, so my overall mileage is down some.

Needless to say, I think that the benefit is so great that I plan on having it done every 50,000 miles now.
Bottom line... GET YOUR VALVES ADJUSTED. :)
 
#87 ·
^^^^ THIS. GET YOUR VALVES ADJUSTED. :)
 
#88 ·
My 2006 AT Ex with nearly 113,000 miles is starting to experience engine stalling at startup. Basically, it's an intermittent problem where the engine will start up but fail to maintain curb idle. I took it to my local mech shop. He couldn't find any error codes and of course the car worked fine for the three times we tested it. He does't doubt my issue but is reluctant to start replacing parts by guessing. Basically, he said just drive it with two feet, one on the gas and one on the brake pedal till it's obvious and bring it back in.

I know from this thread and others that my Element needs a valve adjustment, clean my throttle body, idle air control valve, and I should replace my positive control valve.

One thing I find interesting is that no one mentions using a torque wrench to assemble these parts back together. I would be worried about over tightening and possibly damaging bolts. I only found Norbar Amazon-Norbar Pro50 torque wrench that will do the lighter ft.lbs for these jobs. I don't trust a Harbor Freight type $30 torque wrench. Curious to know what others are using. Also, are there any other tools beside what has been mentioned in this thread that might come in handy too?

Interesting side note, I have asked two independent mechanic shops for price quotes to get a valve adjustment. They both looked perplexed and said they generally don't. One said because they are too time consuming and normally only after they install a new engine in a vehicle and wait a few days to readjust them. The second asked if I was having issues and if not, I'm wasting my money. I asked these guys before my car reached 100,000 miles and before any stalling issues too. Well, now I know better and it's clearly a part of vehicle maintenance. Out of curiosity, I plan to get some dealer quotes even though I plan to take time off work to do these jobs.
 
#89 ·
It's key to leave the car overnight so that the mechanic can adjust the valves while they are 'cold'. Even in the winter, you can't check the clearance after driving to the shop and expect to find the issue. I didn't have my throttle body or idle air control valve cleaned and my PCV is old. But I only have 213,000 miles :)
Start with the valve adjustment, you may save some money
 
#90 ·
Adjusted mine at 186,000 miles and it runs a bit more powerful now. Definitely noticeable improvement!
 
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