Honda Element Owners Club banner

Bridgestone Dueler A/T vs. Michelin LTX M/S?

19K views 35 replies 14 participants last post by  LeadFoot 
#1 ·
Well, it finally happened, I drove in something other than rain or sun on my Wranglers. I nearly slipped right out of my lane on the (admittedly curvy highway). The wranglers only had 12,000 miles, but I decided I couldn't get through a winter (Minnesota) safely on these. Anyway, I decided enough is enough, and decided to get Michelin LTX's thrown on. Problem is, they didn't have the right size in stock, and I wanted something today. So, I bought Bridgestone Dueller A/T's, with the idea that if I don't like them, I can trade them in for the Michelin's within 30 days.

So, here's my question, I need your thoughts on which is the better tire for the element. I need something that is good in snow/rain/sleet, and I do quite a bit of gravel road driving in all seasons.

What do you think. All advice will really be appreciated.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Okay, you are comparing do different category of tires. The michelin in by far the most superior tire on the market. Why? The sidewalls when unmounted feel like the would blow out with even 5 psi in them. This is why so many people love these tires, the SMOOTH ride. Not the best traction but the best ride, hands down. We just put them on our 99 powerstoke 15 passenger van, and it smoothed that 1 ton beast out. Now did you get the REVO's or just the original dueler. Great mileage out of these with better winter tracton, not the same superior ride or the michelin prestiege. What i think you should go with is the (even though i hate to say) the BFG AT. These are made by michelin and carry the same technology with EXCELLENT traction, ride, and mileage. Obviously they are more aggresive and will get very high mileage for an all terrain tire. This is the best all round tire. I just don't like them because everyone in Utah has them and their French.:mad: Or if you really want the Michelin name go for the LTX AT. A little more agressive but built on the LTX MS platfrom. Hope I didn't bore you. Any Questions???:twisted:
 
#3 ·
#4 ·
deckeda said:
Is that the D693? http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes&place=29

Seems to have gotten some good reviews.

If I lived in Minnesota I'd aim for dedicated winter tires such as

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes&place=1

or perhaps the Nokians that are popular with some here. Toss 'em on some steelies and keep regular tires for good weather on your regular rims.
I should have clarified. Yes, these are D693's, not the Revo's. The Revo's are not available in the size I want. I don't want to go up any more than 225 70 16.

I had discussed winter tires, thinking about getting the Blizzak's, but decided that, for me, that would be overkill. Besides, I would have needed to buy 8 tires (4 to replace my Wranglers and 4 for winter), plus 4 new rims. The cost was prohibitive. The other thing that I thought about is that I've heard Winter tires, because of the kind of composite they use, wear out pretty fast, and I have a long commute on pavement, so could only get maybe two winters out of them.

I also looked at the Nokians, but read a pretty thorough review which basically said they are great for traction, but not so good for dry pavement.

I am basically looking for a good all-season mostly highway with some off-road capability. That's my dilemma.
 
#5 ·
harrysmith500 said:
Okay, you are comparing do different category of tires. The michelin in by far the most superior tire on the market. Why? The sidewalls when unmounted feel like the would blow out with even 5 psi in them. This is why so many people love these tires, the SMOOTH ride. Not the best traction but the best ride, hands down. We just put them on our 99 powerstoke 15 passenger van, and it smoothed that 1 ton beast out. Now did you get the REVO's or just the original dueler. Great mileage out of these with better winter tracton, not the same superior ride or the michelin prestiege. What i think you should go with is the (even though i hate to say) the BFG AT. These are made by michelin and carry the same technology with EXCELLENT traction, ride, and mileage. Obviously they are more aggresive and will get very high mileage for an all terrain tire. This is the best all round tire. I just don't like them because everyone in Utah has them and their French.:mad: Or if you really want the Michelin name go for the LTX AT. A little more agressive but built on the LTX MS platfrom. Hope I didn't bore you. Any Questions???:twisted:
Thanks for the information. One question, when you talk about the BFG A/T's, I think there are more than one type. Can you tell me which one you are referring to?

One thing I should point out. I think I got ripped off, but it is remediable. I had done price comparisons on the Michelin LTX's and found that I could get them for $129 each, which is less than Tire Rack plus shipping. But, when the store said it would take a few days to get them in stock in my size, they suggested the Bridgestone's. My wife has the Bridgestone Dueler's on her Rodeo, and they have performed well (but are little loud). The guy at Tires plus said they were the same price. So, I bought them, only to get home, go onto Tire Rack, and discover the Bridgestone's there are actually alot cheaper ($91 per tire as opposed to $125 for the Michelin's). So, I can have Tires plus get the Michelin's and have them put on for no extra charge, or I can call and ask for a price reduction on the Bridgestone's. I haven't decided yet, which is why I posted this thread. While I wait for more responses (hopefully), I'll look into the B.F. Goodrich A/T's.
 
#6 ·
Go with whatever tire you want... just wanted to clarify that the Nokian's... any Nokian tire is awesome on dry pavement. I have been driving on Nokian tires since 1999 and they are a better dry pavement tire than many summer tires plus they have amazing wet and cold/snow/ice grip to go along with that. They last 40-50,000 miles as well. That is not something you can say about most tires on the market.

Now, which Nokian tires did you read that review on? Their All-Season NRW/WR or one of their winter Hakkapeliitta tires?

You are correct about wanting to skip a true winter tire like the Blizzak. Most people that purchase those types of tires never look to see what sort of mileage they will get out of them for 90% of their driving... which no matter where you live in the lower 48 is on asphalt/blacktop/concrete. Very little of the driving is done exclusively on snow/ice. Blizzak tires can begin to chunk after only several hundred miles of continuous dry weather driving. I know, i have seen it happen to friend's cars. Even Green Bay doesn't stay cold enough with enough snow/ice on the road to warrant Blizzak tires.






 
#7 ·
That price does seem a little high.
About 18 months ago, I paid $125 per tire for the Bridgestone Dueler At D693 in a 255/75/16 for my Frontier. The price was out-the-door including lifetime rotation & balancing from America's Tire.
I've used these tires on 4 of my last 5 trucks & have been very satisfied with them (plus, they're less $$ that Michelin & BFG). Every weather condition from white-outs in the Sierras, rain on busy SoCal streets/freeways, & dirt/sandy/gravel roads in the desert.

Rod
 
#8 ·
BFG AT
This is the tire that is very popular, I believe it is the BFG All Terrain KO.
The michelins should be a lot more by a large margin than any other tire in it's category. And yes winter tires are "winter tires" because of the soft rubber compound. you can actually smell the rubber of the tires on a warm dry day after some aggressive and intense driving. So consequently they do wear out faster. You will be most happy with the BFG's.
 
#10 ·
Re: Bridgestone Dueler A/T price

I just received a direct mail piece from the local Firestone shop..They have a special on the Dueler AT's for $109 per tire. That is likely without the added balancing, etc.

I was thinking about those myself. Just haven't come to grips with dealing with the Firestone shop (vs the Les Schwab just a few blocks down with its far superior customer service).
 
#11 ·
Don't be slammin' the Nokians for fair weather performance!
I agree with the viewpoint above that these pricey tires are amazing traction in ALL conditions.

Although the Nokian WR SUV's are rated at a respectable 40k miles, the LTX will generally wear longer, according to all the reviews I read and should be ALMOST as good traction....according to the reviews.

From what I read though, the LTX's are NOT cheap and will set you back about the same amount as the Nokian WR SUV's.
 
#12 ·
Re: Bridgestone Dueler A/T price=my dilemma solved

DOGBOX said:
I just received a direct mail piece from the local Firestone shop..They have a special on the Dueler AT's for $109 per tire. That is likely without the added balancing, etc.

I was thinking about those myself. Just haven't come to grips with dealing with the Firestone shop (vs the Les Schwab just a few blocks down with its far superior customer service).
I solved my dilemma--by paying the price you just quoted on the Bridgestone's.

After writing my last few responses in this thread, I called Tires Plus, talked to the guy who sold me the Bridgestone's (he was the store manager, it turned out), and gave him two options (nicely, though), either he could match Tire Rack's price on the Dueler's ($91 + $12 shipping per tire) or he could switch them out for the Michelin's at the same price I had originally paid. He said he could knock $18 per tire off of the Dueler's, and let me decide (bringing the price to $110, but with free mounting--saving me another $10 per tire). So, I kept the Bridgestone's. For the same money as I originally paid for the Bridgestone's, I would have gone with the Michelin's, but at a savings of $18 per tire, I think I'll be satisfied with what I have. It sounds like the Michelin's wear better, have a smoother ride, and better snow traction, but the Bridgestone's have better dirt traction and we have a long steep gravel driveway.
 
#14 ·
DOGBOX said:
Costco will sell the LTX M/S's for $126 a piece, with mounting/balancing, everything included. I just asked this past weekend.
Check out the user reviews of the Michelin LTX tires on the Tire Rack website. I don't think I have seen ANY other tire EVER get so many consistently good reviews, including other michelins. They seem to last more miles than the average Ford car.
 
#15 ·
Honu said:
Check out the user reviews of the Michelin LTX tires on the Tire Rack website. I don't think I have seen ANY other tire EVER get so many consistently good reviews, including other michelins. They seem to last more miles than the average Ford car.
I agree with what you've seen in the reviews at Tire Rack. Very nice reviews.

Now that I've had my Bridgestone's for a little over a week, I am beginning to regret my decision, and may still go with the Michelin's (I have 30 days from the date of purchase to decide to get a refund and go with something else). Two things, okay three, things I don't like about the Bridgestones. They are loud. They vibrate at anything over 50 mph (could be balancing, but I think its just the way they are). And most importantly, my gas mileage has decreased in a significant way. I had been getting 23 to 24 mpg on the wranglers. Now, I am down to 20 mpg. Weird. My driving hasn't changed. If anything, I am driving more conservatively, to rule that out.

So, the LTX are touted for great traction on pavement, quiet ride, smooth ride. The only thing I don't know is if my miles per gallon of gas will increase close to where it was with the wranglers.

Opinions on this issue would be very welcome.
 
#16 ·
Okay, I am sure I sound pretty wishy-washy, but I am now definitely going to be sticking with the Bridgestone Duelers. Today, we were supposed to get "less than one inch of snow" in my area. We got about 3 inches. No big deal really, except it came down within a couple of hours, and because it was unexpected, there were no plows when I hit the road today. Also, because it was the day after Thanksgiving, the roads were packed, packing down all the snow. So, it was a very good day to test the winter performance of these tires (and of the E in general). I made it up my steep gravel driveway without any problems. In fact, I didn't slip at all. On the paved roads, I had to gun it to get my car to swerve at all. Cars were in the ditches, but I kept things going smoothly (at safe speeds). Even if I lose a few miles to the gallon (bummer) I guess its the price I pay for better traction (more resistance). I'll be sticking with the Dueller's for sure now.
 
#17 ·
Good luck with those BS "Duelers", they were o.e. on the '04 CR-V (fwd, auto) that I got rid of yesterday to get my wife a new '05 Element LX auto with AWD. At just over 27K miles they were essentially worn out and for a l-o-n-g time had the grip of...well they were real good at slipping! As per usual Honda puts, IMO, less than desirable rubber on their vehicles and the new Element with GY Wranglers seems to follow suit. They will be removed this week, probably for the Mich. LTX M/S. DFO:|
 
#20 ·
after extensive research on this site and tirerack.com i've setted on the michelin lts. the other contenders were the duler at, which seems like it could have been noisey and the geolander, which seems like a good buy for the money, but i wanted a cusher ride and longer treadlife. on tirerack, geolander people were at 50k and reported needing new ones in 5-10k, not bad for the price, but i put 30-50k on tires in a year, and i'd like to not have to drop $ again in a year. the michelin lts is the best selling truck tire in america for a reason, and the tesimonials on tirerack of people getting 80-120k on their tires explains why.

anyway, support the french :roll:, roll with michelin!

btw: discount tire will match costco's price of $140 per tire with everything. not bad. i was looking at 1-2 weeks for costco to get them. odd, considering how many of these tires are sold.
 
#21 ·
designeraccd said:
Good luck with those BS "Duelers", they were o.e. on the '04 CR-V (fwd, auto) that I got rid of yesterday to get my wife a new '05 Element LX auto with AWD. At just over 27K miles they were essentially worn out and for a l-o-n-g time had the grip of...well they were real good at slipping! As per usual Honda puts, IMO, less than desirable rubber on their vehicles and the new Element with GY Wranglers seems to follow suit. They will be removed this week, probably for the Mich. LTX M/S. DFO:|
Thanks for the encouragement!:roll: Seriously, though, I appreciate the warning (as I still have time to return the Bridgestones. I don't think I will though. Like someone else said, there are a few varieties of the Bridgestone Dueler A/T, which is kind of dumb for Bridgestone. It seems to me that, when reading the review for the kind I bought "D693," people were generally very satisfied, but there were reviews mixed in there that were the OEM Dueler A/T, which are typically the D693 II and D694--a lesser version than the aftermarket version. Besides, my wife has those OEM Bridgestone's on her Rodeo, which has 43,000, and they have at least 10K good miles on them. We just drove through some pretty good snowing on the curvy country roads tonight in her Rodeo, drove up and down a steep, curvy, gravel snow-covered road, and we never lost grip, ever, and we had it in 2WD the whole time.

So, while the Michelin's would last longer, and give a quieter ride, they probably won't do as well in gravel, and they cost about $100 more. The compromise seems right (although I have agonized over it).
 
#22 ·
kyote321 said:
after extensive research on this site and tirerack.com i've setted on the michelin lts. the other contenders were the duler at, which seems like it could have been noisey and the geolander, which seems like a good buy for the money, but i wanted a cusher ride and longer treadlife. on tirerack, geolander people were at 50k and reported needing new ones in 5-10k, not bad for the price, but i put 30-50k on tires in a year, and i'd like to not have to drop $ again in a year. the michelin lts is the best selling truck tire in america for a reason, and the tesimonials on tirerack of people getting 80-120k on their tires explains why.

anyway, support the french :roll:, roll with michelin!

btw: discount tire will match costco's price of $140 per tire with everything. not bad. i was looking at 1-2 weeks for costco to get them. odd, considering how many of these tires are sold.
Did you get the LTX or the LTX M/S? I got the M/S tonight at Costco. The price was not $140 as you quoted, but $133 per tire. I drove 25 miles home and was instantly impressed at the difference. My E always had a tendency to pull--usually to the left. I've had it re-aligned twice but it always had a wierd feel. Change tires and all that is COMPLETELY gone. It tracks as straight as straight can be. Can't believe that those Goodyears were really THAT BAD. I mean, I knew they were bad, but that bad....well, thank god they are now history. It was raining to beat the band all the way home, and my M/S's rode with confidence.
 
#24 ·
Digging up this old thread. I'd like to hear how those Bridgestone APT's from Sears have worked out for you.

I've been running the Bridgestone Dueller AT's (693 with the 101S load rating) for the past 65K and they have been phenomenal for me in snow, on gravel, in mud, on the highway and I really want them again, but they are no longer made in 225/70/16. I spoke with Bridgestone's tech/warranty department today to try and narrow down their current line up that would be close to my old AT's. The APT's are close as are the AT 695's sold at sears. They also suggested I look at the Firestone Destination LE and LT's.

Everyone has opinions on tires. One hates a particular model, while another poster raves about the same one. So I take talk of rubber with a huge grain of salt. I just know the Dueller AT 693's were top notch for me the last few years. Time to replace, so I'm gathering quotes, opinions and shopping around.

LeadFoot
 
#25 ·
I recommend Yokohama Geolander HT/S

I just had a full set of Firestone Destination LEs on my Element, and immediately noticed that the handling became UNSAFE! These thumpy clodhoppers not only steal your gas mileage----they handle like square bricks in a round space! They cannot take a corner doing above 25 mph---they wobble, thump, thud, and feel as if the front tires are at war with the rear tires! Curves are not only challenging---they're dangerous in these tires. Control of the vehicle is compromised by these elephant shoes!

These tires are so horrible that I begged for my old Yoko Geos back! Even after 70,000 miles, my Yoko Geos are still safer than a brand-new set of these clodhoppers! I already ordered my next set of Yoko Geos! My throbbing headache is already feeling better!
 
#26 · (Edited)
I just had a full set of Firestone Destination LEs on my Element, and immediately noticed that the handling became UNSAFE! These thumpy clodhoppers not only steal your gas mileage----they handle like square bricks in a round space! They cannot take a corner doing above 25 mph---they wobble, thump, thud, and feel as if the front tires are at war with the rear tires! Curves are not only challenging---they're dangerous in these tires. Control of the vehicle is compromised by these elephant shoes!

These tires are so horrible that I begged for my old Yoko Geos back! Even after 70,000 miles, my Yoko Geos are still safer than a brand-new set of these clodhoppers! I already ordered my next set of Yoko Geos! My throbbing headache is already feeling better!
Wow! Wobble, thump, thud and can't corner over 25 mph? That's good to know about the LE's on an Element. The LE is a much rounder shape than I prefer, so after seeing them yesterday they were scratched off my list. Another dealer tried to get me to buy the Kelly Safari Signature tires which were on sale for $129 per tire. They looked pretty good and the Goodyear salesman was really giving me the pitch on them. I know they score high in ratings/reviews, but I passed.

I ordered the Bridgestone Dueller APT's yesterday which includes a 30 day period where if I am not satisfied, I can switch. The Geolanders were on my list and the price is about the same as the APT's, but I need a little more aggressive tread for the gravel, snow, rain I have to deal with throughout the year. The APT's have a nice square shoulder and tread just like the Dueller AT 693's that I have on my Element. I'm hoping it is an easy transition for me and that I certainly avoid what you are experiencing with the Firestone Destination LE's. If so, I will swap out to something else that scores well.

Sorry you are going through that.

Many of these tires have changed and been updated with newer technology since Consumer Reports did this rating test a few years ago, but it is what it is for all terrains... (the Bridgestone Dueller APT III's are upgraded to APT IV's which came out in the last year and are a much improved tire, so I'm pretty excited that they are way up on the list). I see your Destination LE's a bit down the list and the Geolanders don't score well in either category which is odd. I've got to go with Consumer Reports.

All terrain tires...

Nitto Terra Grappler AT
80.
Bridgestone Dueler APT III
74.
Bridgestone Dueler A/T Revo
73.
Toyo Open Country A/T
72.
Kumho Road Venture AT
70.
Hankook Dynapro AT RF08
69.
Cooper Discoverer ATR
67.
Firestone Destination A/T
67.
BF Goodrich Rugged Trail T/A
63.
Yokohama Geolandar A/T + II
63.
Goodyear Wrangler AT/S
62.
Uniroyal Laredo AWT
59.
Continental ContiTrac TR
40.


And for light truck tires....


Goodyear Fortera HL Edition
75.
Pirelli Scorpion STR A
71.
Hankook DynaPro AS RH03
68.
Kelly Safari Signature
64.
Dayton Timberline HT
64.
Hankook DynaPro AT RF08
62.
Dunlop Radial Rover AT
61.
General AmeriTrac SUV (Sears)
61.
Uniroyal Laredo Cross Country
61.
Toyo Radial Open Country M410
59.
Kumho Road Venture HT
59.
Firestone Destination LE
59.
Bridgestone Dueler H/T D684
58.
Uniroyal Laredo All Season AWP
58.
Michelin XC LT4 (Sears)
58.
Cooper Discoverer H/T
57.
Michelin LTX M/S
57.
Yokohama Geolandar H/T-S G051
56.
Michelin Cross Terrain
54.
Continental ContiTrac SUV
54.
Kelly Safari SUV
51.
BFGoodrich Radial Long Trail T/A

LeadFoot
 
#33 ·
Personally, I would prefer starting at Tirerack review than CS.
It give me more point of view from all the consumers like us, who shared with each other real life experience, instead of single review from lab of single website/magazine.

Couple examples as one could find:

477 reviews for General Grabber HTS:
"www.tirerack.com/survey/SurveyComments.jsp?additionalComments=y&commentStatus=P&tireMake=General&tireModel=Grabber+HTS&fromTireDetail=true&tirePageLocQty="

1874 reviews for BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KO
"www.tirerack.com/survey/SurveyComments.jsp?additionalComments=y&commentStatus=P&tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=All-Terrain+T%2FA+KO&fromTireDetail=true&tirePageLocQty="

even 69 for newly release Michelin LTX M/S2
"www.tirerack.com/survey/SurveyComments.jsp?additionalComments=y&commentStatus=P&tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=LTX+M%2FS2&fromTireDetail=true&tirePageLocQty="

If I could not get objective data, I certainly is going to trust tenths or hundred or thousand of subjective result from regular consumers amount us, maybe lots of them are also EOC members, rather than just one & only website/magazine. :)
 
#34 ·
Personally, I would prefer starting at Tirerack review than CS.....If I could not get objective data, I certainly is going to trust tenths or hundred or thousand of subjective result from regular consumers amount us, maybe lots of them are also EOC members, rather than just one & only website/magazine. :)
Understood.

I hope you're not running the BFG All-Terrain KO's in San Jose, though.;-)

LeadFoot
 
#36 · (Edited)
Update on the the set of Bridgestone Dueller APT IV's I bought from Sears back in 2010...

Here we are 3 weeks away from the beginning of 2014 and this set is approaching 60K and they still have tread for what looks to be at least another 5K+, but I am starting the process of figuring out what to buy next. Today is our 1st significant amount of snowfall for the year (probably get about 5" or so), and I'll be out driving in it.

These APT IV's really have been excellent performers for my needs, so have to back up the original Consumer Reports review that led me to them. Lots of gravel, snow, pavement, bike hauling, trailer pulling, camping, dog hauling, short commuting, wet roads - both gravel and pavement, etc...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/9126207874/ http://www.flickr.com/people/7166535@N05/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/8936117352/ http://www.flickr.com/people/7166535@N05/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/8414932447/ http://www.flickr.com/people/7166535@N05/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/8286511536/ http://www.flickr.com/people/7166535@N05/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/6705970703/ http://www.flickr.com/people/7166535@N05/

Sears doesn't carry the APT IV's in my size any more (225/70/16).

I'm looking at 2 sizes for the next set of rubber - either stick with 225/70/16, or give the 225/75/16's a whirl (something visually rugged like the Hankook Dynapro ATM's or the BFG AT's). Both of those links are the 225/75/16's - about the max I could put on the Element, but I think they look pretty rugged and cool on both of those Elements pictured at the links.

Who knows what I will end up with, but I am going to check with the latest Consumer Reports Light SUV/Truck reviews to see what has been updated since the one I linked earlier in this thread when I was shopping for the APT IV's.

Top 5 (not sure if they all come in sizes for the Element) from the latest review were:

Cooper Discoverer A/T3 ($150)
The others, all of which tied for second place, were the...
Michelin LTX A/T2 ($180)
Hankook Dynapro ATM ($175)
Kumho Road Venture AT KL78 ($130)
Kumho Road Venture SAT KL61 ($139)

Here are both the all-season light truck tires and the all-terrain top 5 picks in the 2013 CR ratings...

* All-season light truck tires: Michelin LTX M/S2, 72; Michelin X Radial LT2, 72; Continental CrossContact LX20 EcoPlus, 72; Michelin Latitude Tour HP, 72; Michelin Latitude Tour, 72.

* All-terrain tires: Cooper Discoverer A/T3, 66; Michelin LTX A/T2, 64; Hankook Dynapro ATM, 64; Kumho Road Venture AT KL78, 64; Kumho Road Venture SAT KL61, 64.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top