Element 6 speed MT Conversion Plans/Parts

[rhurt]

Honda Element 6 speed Manual Transmission Conversion

Part numbers supplied are from a 2006 Acura TSX 6MT
The identical parts could be obtained from a 2006 Civic Si 6MT, but the part numbers will be slightly different.

I recommend both of these manuals:
Helms Honda Element Manual
Helms Acura TSX Manual

- Shifter mechanism parts -
Reverse shift piece 24240-PNS-000
Shift arm interlock 24430-PNS-000 (or modify the old one)

*5-6 gearshift fork 24201-RAS-000* NOTE: In at least one CRV and possibly in some later model Elements the Reverse shift piece may be welded to the Element's 5-Reverse shift fork, instead of being attached by a pin. In this case see step 3 below.

These parts are optional. The function of these parts hasn't been determined; however the transmission functions well without them. They may be necessary for reverse safety interlock.
* MBS arm 24412-PNS-000
* MBS arm spring 24413-PNS-000
* - added by MikeQBF. }

- Main shaft parts -
Mainshaft 6th gear 23590-RAS-A00
Needle Bearing (35 x 41 x 24) 91103-RAS-003
Collar (28 x 35 x 24) 23916-PNS-000
5-6 Synchronizer Sleeve Set 23626-PNS-315

- Countershaft parts -
Special bolt 90011-PPP-000
Countershaft 6th gear 23491-RAS-000

Procedure
Note: This is the procedure that I followed. This worked for me, however if there are mistakes or omissions I cannot be held responsible. There are several variations that will also work. Without proper experience it is possible to destroy the transmission if it is not reassembled correctly. It is important to inspect all parts and if there are any worn parts they should be replaced. Please use caution and common sense.

1. Following procedure in the Element Manual, remove the transmission. Note it is not necessary to remove the outboard joints of the driveshafts from the wheel hub. They can remain in place. Just remove the inboard joints from the transmission and intermediate shaft. Do remove the intermediate shaft.

2. Follow procedure in the Element Manual for disassembly of the transmission. Stop after the shifter and gearsets have been removed. Discard the reverse cam lock.

3. Drive out the pin connecting the reverse shift fork and the 5th gear shift fork. Discard the pin. Remove and discard the reverse shift fork. Replace with the new 6 speed reverse shift fork. **In at least one CRV and possibly some later model Elements the reverse shift fork may be welded to the 5th gear shift fork (rather than attached by a connecting pin). In this case you must order the TSX 5-6 gearshift fork 24201-RAS-000. Use this shift fork as a replacement for the stock 5th gear shift fork.**

4. Follow the procedure in the Element Manual for disassembly of the mainshaft. Remove the taper cone ring and associated distance collar, and discard. Remove 5th gear synchronizer, discard and stop. Follow the procedure in the Acura TSX manual for reassembly of the mainshaft. Press the new 5-6 synchronizer hub onto the mainshaft. Place the new collar and needle bearing on the mainshaft. Place the new mainshaft 6th gear over the needle bearing. Replace the ball bearing as directed.

5. Follow the procedure in the Element Manual for disassembly of the countershaft. The appropriate way to do this is to use a bearing puller and hydraulic press, but some people cheat. Other people find a local tranny shop may help with this step. Remove the special bolt (note - reverse threads). Remove the bearing, the shim, and the distance collar, then stop. Discard the special bolt and distance collar. Follow the procedure in the Acura TSX manual for reassembly of the mainshaft. Press the countershaft 6th gear onto the countershaft. Complete reassembly of the countershaft as directed.

6. Replace the shift arm interlock with the new interlock. Alternatively, the slot in the old shift arm interlock can be elongated by about 6mm (the width of the reverse select lever).

7. Follow procedure in the Element Manual for reassembly of the transmission. Do not re-install the reverse lock cam. Note: Be sure to install the speed sensor spacer (It is not a washer) in the correct order - Bolt, sensor, spacer, transmission.

8. Following procedure in the Element Manual, install the transmission.

9. Drive.

[Mago]

You make it sound soooo easy...:rolleyes:
I am going to ask a transmission shop for a quote and if its too much im doing it myself, but only because rhurt did all this work for us. Thanks for all the info!

[bluecivic107]

THANK YOU!!! I've been waiting for this....
Here's the total cost:

[biocube]

Mago, i'm curious what you find out for a quote.

also ask if there is a discount if we get two (or more) to do at the same time!

[rhurt]

Let me just point out a couple of things. First please be aware of all of the cons of this procedure. Among the most notable: You will void your warranty. There will not be a reverse lockout (Without some extra work). And there is a very real possibility that if done incorrectly you could ruin your transmission. Finally this procedure requires some specialized tools and experience. There are a number of tolerances to be measured that may require replacement of shims. If you overlook these it may compromise the smoothness and life of the transmission. (FYI I hate to admit it but I took the risk and skipped a few measurments - don't try this at home.)

That said, the E is running really well. I don't have any mileage checks yet, but it definetly takes less gas pedal for a given speed. I hope that more of you will risk it and try this, especially someone with 4WD. I definitely plan on getting another Element in the future, maybe by then Honda will do this for us. If not I will do it all again. If anyone has specific questions or would like further advice I am available.

[rhurt]

This is the adaptation I made to the shift interlock. The purpose of this is to allow one more shifter gate in the shift pattern. If this is not done then you will not be able to shift into the new reverse slot.

There are two options: 1) Purchase a 6 speed interlock and replace it as described above. 2) Modify the original, by removing just enough metal to allow to allow the shift arm to get into reverse.

Here are some photos outlining the material to be removed in red.

[gfxguy]

Originally Posted by BIGRIG

To the best of your knowlage would the civic 6 speed tranny drop right in there?

Hmmm... interesting... more expensive part, but less time and less probability of error...

[Mago]

I will try to get to the transmission place tomorrow since it is in the same complex as the place where I'm picking up my motorcycle anywayand then I will let everyone know. I do have an AWD E, but due to a vacation for most of Aug it may be a few paychecks after that, maybe Sept....by then I may not be the first AWD E to try (this could be a good or bad thing).

[rhurt]

Originally Posted by BIGRIG

Once the mod is done ...is there any clearance issue between the shifter and the trim in the shifter console?
What are the odds the new civic 6 speed shifter would drop in there?
To the best of your knowlage would the civic 6 speed tranny drop right in there?

There are NO clearance issues. I am using the same stock shifter. The 06 Civic Si shifter will not fit, but there is no reason to do this. The 02 Civic Si shifter probably will fit, but it probably has the same throw. However, the Buddy Club short throw shifter for the 02 Si probably will fit and tighten the shift (I have not tried it).

I have replaced all of the rubber bushings in the linkage and at the base of the shifter with metal ones. This has really tightened up the linkage.

Finally the 06 Civic Si 6 speed transmission should bolt up, probably with some mounting mods. BUT, it has the same final drive, the same sixth gear, and a LOWER 5th gear, so I don't see an advantage over the conversion.

[worthywads]

Originally Posted by Mago

I will try to get to the transmission place tomorrow since it is in the same complex as the place where I'm picking up my motorcycle anywayand then I will let everyone know. I do have an AWD E, but due to a vacation for most of Aug it may be a few paychecks after that, maybe Sept....by then I may not be the first AWD E to try (this could be a good or bad thing).

I may beat you to it with my awd, I talked with my tranny friend (that doesn't sound right) and he's excited about doing this.

rhurt, is the slot length on the interlock critical, as in too much would be bad?

The 6-spd interlock is part 17161 and $22.78.

I'm having visualization problems, I'm not sure what my 5-spd is doing to prevent me from slamming it into reverse currently, let alone what would be required along with the 6-spd conversion. I'm a little concerned about this, my wife tends to overshoot and she's the primary driver, I don't want her trashing the reverse gears if it is possible.

Great stuff.

Just curious Mago, are you familiar with the album Tago Mago by the german band CAN?