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Old 08-02-2016, 08:04 AM   #1
kamwrex
EOC Rank: Hydrogen
2007 2WD EX AT
Nighthawk Black Pearl (NBP)
 
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Dipping RPMs when revving in park/neutral

From my experience with my E, pressing the accelerator to get the engine to 2,000 RPMs and letting off should result in a smooth drop in RPMs back down to idle.

However, when I am in park/neutral and let off the pedal after revving the engine to ANY RPMs, when I left off the pedal the RPMs drop significantly then bounce back up and slowly come back down. For example, when I increase RPM to 2000 and let off the pedal, RPMs drop to about 1,000 then bounce back up to 2,000 and slowly decrease back to idle.

Any ideas? Most of the fuel/air sensors and parts are new (MAF sensor, Throttle body and gasket, MAP sensor) and performed an idle relearn about 300 miles ago when those new parts were installed).
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Old 08-02-2016, 10:20 AM   #2
ramblerdan
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Does it run well otherwise? An unstable idle is often the result of a vacuum leak.
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Old 08-02-2016, 10:53 AM   #3
kamwrex
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2007 2WD EX AT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblerdan View Post
Does it run well otherwise? An unstable idle is often the result of a vacuum leak.
Running idle is rock solid @ ~850. This occurs when I am increasing RPMs and let off the pedal...the RPMs rapidly drop, bounce back up, then smoothly come down to idle.

A while back I had an issue with a P0507 code (Idle Air Control System RPM Higher Than Expected) but turns out that was a sticking PCV valve causing a vacuum leak. I replaced that and rechecked the intake hoses for poor fit and cracks. No code in weeks.

The other issue (I've posted on here before) is the dragging sensation when I let off the pedal while driving. In that case, a similar thing happens where the RPMs drop (slowing the car down) for about 5-7 seconds then jump back up where the dragging sensation then disappears; sometimes the vehicle surges forward.

Could this be caused from changing the TB, resulting in an uncalibrated TP sensor? I performed an idle relearn, but am not sure if that addresses an uncalibrated TP sensor. When I let off the gas and the butterfly valve closes in the TB, could an uncalibrated TP sensor cause that RPM dip?

Last edited by kamwrex; 08-02-2016 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 08-02-2016, 04:32 PM   #4
desinia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamwrex View Post
Running idle is rock solid @ ~850. This occurs when I am increasing RPMs and let off the pedal...the RPMs rapidly drop, bounce back up, then smoothly come down to idle.

A while back I had an issue with a P0507 code (Idle Air Control System RPM Higher Than Expected) but turns out that was a sticking PCV valve causing a vacuum leak. I replaced that and rechecked the intake hoses for poor fit and cracks. No code in weeks.

The other issue (I've posted on here before) is the dragging sensation when I let off the pedal while driving. In that case, a similar thing happens where the RPMs drop (slowing the car down) for about 5-7 seconds then jump back up where the dragging sensation then disappears; sometimes the vehicle surges forward.

Could this be caused from changing the TB, resulting in an uncalibrated TP sensor? I performed an idle relearn, but am not sure if that addresses an uncalibrated TP sensor. When I let off the gas and the butterfly valve closes in the TB, could an uncalibrated TP sensor cause that RPM dip?
The dragging is from the Honda auto transmission not releasing when it's supposed to. (coasting) I mentioned this a couple of times when I got mine in '08 and had several members down my throat saying it's to keep the fluid from heating up. Never saw this in ANY decently designed transmission before buying a Honda but you get used to it.
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Old 08-02-2016, 11:55 PM   #5
kamwrex
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That's a great way to put it, like the transmission is holding onto the gear and then releasing a few seconds later. Tapping the gas gets rid of it only for it to return once you take your foot off the pedal again.

I've driven this vehicle for the past 6 years and 80k miles, and I don't recall it ever acting like this until the past several months. When I am navigating parking lots, sometimes after I tap the pedal the vehicle does the drag/surge thing and it really rocks the vehicle or feels like a 16 y/o alternating the gas and brakes. Sometimes it doesn't happen, sometimes it does. It is very irritating.
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Old 08-03-2016, 01:40 AM   #6
desinia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamwrex View Post
That's a great way to put it, like the transmission is holding onto the gear and then releasing a few seconds later. Tapping the gas gets rid of it only for it to return once you take your foot off the pedal again.

I've driven this vehicle for the past 6 years and 80k miles, and I don't recall it ever acting like this until the past several months. When I am navigating parking lots, sometimes after I tap the pedal the vehicle does the drag/surge thing and it really rocks the vehicle or feels like a 16 y/o alternating the gas and brakes. Sometimes it doesn't happen, sometimes it does. It is very irritating.
If you hadn't noticed it, there's a button on the side of your gear shift to shut off the overdrive. Pushing it by accident will leave you stuck in third gear which'll feel like the same thing exaggerated.
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Old 08-03-2016, 05:40 PM   #7
kamwrex
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I definitely keep "D3" off, but I am able to get the vehicle to do the drag/surge thing in D1 and D2 as well (and it is exaggerated like you said). The drag/surge feeling is intermittent which is very annoying when trying to show the issue to a tech.

Sometimes it is the E I have known and loved for years, but sometimes it's almost not even enjoyable to drive.
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Old 08-03-2016, 08:32 PM   #8
desinia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamwrex View Post
I definitely keep "D3" off, but I am able to get the vehicle to do the drag/surge thing in D1 and D2 as well (and it is exaggerated like you said). The drag/surge feeling is intermittent which is very annoying when trying to show the issue to a tech.

Sometimes it is the E I have known and loved for years, but sometimes it's almost not even enjoyable to drive.
How old is your fluid and is it Honda fluid or some aftermarket stuff?
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Old 08-03-2016, 08:46 PM   #9
kamwrex
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2007 2WD EX AT
Nighthawk Black Pearl (NBP)
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 74
I did a 3x drain and fill (drain then fill over the course of a weekend) about a year ago, so about 8-10k miles ago, and then changed the in-line filter about 6 months ago. I'm a pretty big Honda snob so I always use Honda fluid and parts.

I visited the dealership Saturday about the drag/surge issue and he said it was "normal" (this coming from a 15 year master mechanic) but that I may have changed the properties of the transmission by going from old fluid to basically replacing all the fluid at once.
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Old 08-04-2016, 08:29 AM   #10
ramblerdan
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> dealership ... said it was "normal"
Find a new dealership. "It's supposed to be that way" is one of the great lies of the auto world.
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