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Discussion Starter #1
Howdy

OK, so I have purchased a 1" front lift from Aerogenics in order to level my E from the 1/2" spacers I already put on the rear. Long story short, I had my own spacers made at work and didn't realize that they'd raise the rear a full inch.

I am going to splurge this time and buy the tires I really want - the Michelin LTX Defender. I have always wanted a set, and have sorta cheaped out in the past. I'm used to having light truck tires AT on it in the stock size. ATs are noisy, and haven't lasted long for me.

I have read alot about tire sizes on the Element. I have RamblerDan's cheet sheet (thanks Dan!) Only problem is consolidating all the information that is out there.

It WAS my intent to do 225/75R16 (stock steelies) this time, but seem to be having trouble finding them in the Michelin LTX. Not sure why, maybe it's a popular size.

I have read that 225/75R16 fits without rubbing (unless it's a knobbier AT like BFG) and also 235/70R16.

How about 235/75R16? Does it rub on the shock tower or any other location?

Is it true that rubbing on the shock tower is the limiting factor to larger diameter tires?

Does it take wheel spacers to eliminate with stock steel wheels, and if so, how thick a spacer?

I know that 235/75R16 is a bit of a stretch. I think it would be cool, but I'm not positive that the lift kit is going to work for me either. I'd hate to decide to remove the lift and then have a set of tires I can't use.

But if I understand correctly, the mere 1" lift won't help the tire size situation. Seems to be limited by the shock tower.

Lastly, I bought one camber bolt for each side in front. Will that correct the camber for 1" lift, or do I need to have two camber bolts per side?

Thanks,

CM
 

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Discussion Starter #2
OK, so I have learned that for whatever reason, at least where I'm buying the Michelins, there are NO 225/75R16s. She could not find them in that size really at all, which sorta confirmed what I had found googling.

They have a few sets of 235/70R16s, so at this point I think it is the path of least resistance.

I will not have an opportunity to try them on my car. I have to buy them in a few days (before they are sold out), won't have my wheels back from paint for 2-3 weeks. Will swing by and have them installed on wheels on my way home (painter and tire place an hour from home)

So I guess that's sort of figured out, unless somebody has any information for me. I suppose that this is a far safer bet than going with 235/75R16 which is a pretty major change.

1" front lift is on the way, and I'll install the camber bolts at that time.

Does anybody know should the camber bolts go on the top or the bottom? Or, should I have gotten camber bolts for both top and botttom?

Thanks a bunch

CM
 

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Can't help on the camber bolts but I ran the 235s on my Element and found only about 3/8" clearance in the front between the bottom of the spring plate on the strut and the rubber. I did notice as the camber changed on the rear there were some spots where the tire just barely rub the body on the inside. I never did see any damage to the tires. I ended up going back to the stock size with the Defender MS and I'm glad I did. The experiment with the 235s to get better mileage failed. The 215s work better for me.
 

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Colonel,
Regarding the camber bolts.
Normally you only need 1 per side, If your looking for more camber adjustment...you would run 2 per side.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks Manny.

OK, well my wheels are done being powdercoated and my tires are being installed on Friday. P235/70R16 MICHELIN X LT A/S TIRE.

I got 1" front spacers from Aerogenics, they are nice and very well made - and don't require the studs in the strut to be replaced. I have the camber bolts and will probably be installing the front lift sometime next week. This week, lots of winter prep needs to be happening while we have good weather, but I'm almost "done". At least until I figure some other changes need to be made.

CM
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Howdy All,

OK so before heading out of town for a week, I got the front 1" spacers and camber bolts installed. That was a much easier job than adding the 1/2" spacers to the rear.

It seems to have leveled the vehicle. I don't have to climb up and it's actually easier to get out which is nice.

Got my powder-coated steelies back with new Michelin rubber on them. I guess I think I'm keeping the car a while. I had to adjust the left rear camber to keep the tire from hard rubbing. I also need to do the right rear but not as much.

Today I need to take 10 minutes and see if the camber bolts were enough. I have them adjusted for max positive camber but they still look like there's a small amount of positive camber. I was really hoping to avoid using two camber bolts.

A few things.... My brakes got seemingly hot from quite a short trip. I've done brakes many times and till I googled this I had never heard of "bedding" the brakes. New brakes are ceramic powerstop. I will follow their procedure.

The ride seems to be really rough, particularly in the rear. I replaced the rear OEM springs with MOOG replacements. There was no information saying these were anything other than "OEM replacements" but they are def stiff. I carry more weight than the normal person, but not trying to turn it into a 3/4 ton element either. Not looking forward to replacing them again if these don't loosen up.

When I parked my car months ago, there was a myriad of vibrations and sounds. I think my tires were bad and now that's fixed. I replaced the CV shafts with some from rock auto that were middle priced ..... And I'm hearing some vibration that I don't want.

Is it possible to rebuild the OEM? I don't know that any of them had a problem, but I replaced them because I didn't want to have to crawl under the car and do this again. I chopped one of the rears to use as a hub puller, but I have the other 3. I have a 20 ton press.

What about the "propeller shaft"? Can the ujoints be replaced?

Thanks

CM
 

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You can get new axle components from Honda. Check out Raxles, they rebuild OEM (only) axles; kinda pricey though. According to Honda, the propeller shaft is not servicable. I pulled a used spare (also a rear differential, looking for a spare transfer case) from a salvage yard just in case.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
You can get new axle components from Honda. Check out Raxles, they rebuild OEM (only) axles; kinda pricey though. According to Honda, the propeller shaft is not servicable. I pulled a used spare (also a rear differential, looking for a spare transfer case) from a salvage yard just in case.
Thanks for the info. Once I get an alignment I'll do some driving and see if it's something I can live with or not. Being an engineer, I'm going to say it'll probably drive me nuts.

At least I have parts for 3 of 4 axles.

On the propeller shaft, did you happen to notice if the u joint caps are removable? Seems like could be a matter of finding the right size ujoint, similar to finding a bearing?

CM
 

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Discussion Starter #10
On the camber, I took some measurements of the front with my semi wonky rig consisting of 6 strong magnets, a plumbing coupler I faced in my lathe, a steel plate, and a digital angle finder.

Psgr side is 89.4, and Drvr side is 89.0. This is with my contraption attached to the hub thru the wheel, with vehicle weight on the wheels.

I guess in proper terminology it's positive camber (leaning out) by +0.6 deg and +1.0 deg, respectively.

So I guess psgr side is just out of spec by 0.1 deg, and drvr side is out by 0.5 degrees

When I installed the 1" spacers up front from Aerogenics, I installed an AC Delco camber bolt which at max can adjust 1.3 degrees. I have it set to reduce by the maximum already. I used the angle gauge to be sure it was going the right way.

I'd sure like it to at least be within spec.

How to I get it there from here?

Are there any camber bolts that have more correction than 1.3 degrees?

Any tricks to milk just a little more out of them?

Thanks

CM
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Howdy, just following up on this.

So, I ended up installing Michelin LTX AT2 on my car, 225/70R16 size. I wanted to go with 225/75R16, but Michelin did not make that size for this tire. They have been excellent, and no rubbing problems.

I ended up with a 1/2" strut spacer in the rear (I made at work) and an Aerogenics 1" spacer in the front. I don't know the total lift, but it is higher than the 1.5" that most folks described. If you're new to the lift discussion, because of suspension geometry you get more actual lift from the spacers than the actual "size" of the spacer. Also, the rear spacer has an exagerated effect compared to the front, so, you def don't want them both to be the same size. My ratio is 2(front) to 1(rear).

I should note, that I replaced the stock rear springs with MOOG springs. My car had long suffered from a sagging a$$, and though the MOOG springs are not advertised as heavy duty, they are most definitely a heavier spring and have fixed all the problems I had with my car.

I would not lift more than this. The installation of the rear spacers was hard enough with just a 1/2" spacer. The 1" spacer on the fronts does quite an angle on the driver's side CV shaft IMO. For a little miniute the boot was wrinkled, but starting it and putting in gear and spinning a few revolutions it snapped back in and is fine now.

I am loving the lift. I live in the north and usually any little snow storm I was belly dragging, it would have to snow a lot for that to happen now.

CM
 

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Congrats on completing the Lift and new Tires.
Have you also gotten an alignment? What did your Alignment settings end-up being?

Also, thread needs a pic or 2 :)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
You know, I got the alignment done, I asked them in advance for a print out - and when I picked it up they said "it wasn't an issue" but they didn't print it out, and didn't have the data saved either.

Probably nobody in that town of 1500 ever had asked them for it.

I can say, that the little bit it was out when I took it there was evident to my eyes, and I could also feel it driving...... And everything looks straight and it drives true.

I loaded up my tools I normally for work, and the tool box I carry with all my jumper cables and tow straps, along with a bunch of scrap steel tubing so that when they did the rear camber it was corrected for a typical load.

There is no more squatting, rear tires are straight, and hauling some hundreds of lbs / trailer with atv in it, still relatively flat and it never could do that before.

The MOOG springs were very stiff at first, I was worried I'd made a big mistake, but I'm happy with the results. It may be a harsh ride if the car is empty, but I'll never know because it's always got stuff in it.

CM

I'll try to get a pic up.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
OK, here's a few pics:

I took a pic of what's in the back so you get an idea, probably about 150 lbs.

I don't always carry steel in my car, but I work a few states away 1 week a month and I am always getting scrap for my projects. This is still in there from last friday.

I have always used my element as a small van, I've only used the rear seats a few times in 12 years.


208112


208113


Still need to clean up my hub covers and put them back on.

My car was originally the gray plastics, but the place I bought it used from had painted them slate blue. It's wearing off pretty badly now and so I'm thinking about coating them.

I'm a hair trigger way from from buying a JDM TSX motor. I have it in my sights and may well pick it up this week when I make my trip to the plant. I have an AT, which it seems can be functional but I am considering doing MT conversion. I just wish they weren't so expensive - right now there are 4spd AT all over for $500 or less.

Do I want a new car? Sure. Considering buying a used truck with my 78 year old father for when I really need a truck. But with so many parts available for these cheep right now, and new undercarriage why? Only thing is, I would really like to swap out the driver's seat with something plush. I'm 51 as of last week, and I do a 450 mile trip twice a month (there and back) and could use the extra comfort. Noise cancelling headphones have been a nice highway improvement.

CM
 

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Discussion Starter #15
BTW, I was wrong on my tire size - they are P235/75R16.

I bought the K24A2. It was in my car for a week. Had to get the plow off the tractor and put on the forks. Was a bit of a pain since they are brush forks and just a little too wide to reach into the element. But in case you guys were wondering, a 3 foot wide pallet with K24 strapped to it fits in the element nicely.

208605


Whether or not the JDM places are full of shite, I don't know. But regardless of supposed mileage, I will be tearing it down and inspecting everything according to spec. It'll be a winter project I'm sure.

I hate to admit it, but I bought a supercharger last week. From a 98-2003 jaguar XKJ. It's an eaton M112. I really wanted an M90 from a tbird SC - the way they were setup lends themselves to being easy to install - but everyone knows this now and they are hard to find. The M90's from GM vehicles are cheep and ubiquitous -- With the GM models, you have to fabricate something - either an adapter plate, or adapter plate plus custom manifold. The outlet of the GM M90s are designed to bolt to the top of an intake plenum. I think this xkj sc has the same size opening in the top as the tbird's M90 - taking a big leap there. But I bought one of the tbird's SC outlets for $50, so I'll know if it fits probably sometime next week.

I'm not looking for top end power. I want more low and midrange torque. I will probably have to use a larger pulley to reduce the boost to something manageable in the higher RPMs. I'm still learning, that purchase was probably premature.

The other SCs I looked at, were eaton M62 from Mercedes uh, 230 or something. They have a favorable outlet shape for adding on. And they sport a mag clutch which I would like. Allows you to turn boost off. Not too expensive. Also, Aisin SC12 and SC14 from toyota MR2 and the like. They were too expensive.

For reference, I know at least some of the K series supercharger kits from Jackson Racing are eaton M62. Something tells me though, the volume of air might not have been enough at lower RPMs, if they are tuned for max horsepower.

I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm trying to figure it out. I read last night that the K24a4 head may well be a better choice for supercharging than the RBB-3 head I just got with K24a2. Wouldn't that be a bitch?

CM
 
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