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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
2wd Element & snow = me not impressed!
Stats: '07 SC w/Sumitomo LHS Mud&Snow tires, 5spd.

On the way home tonight I tried to come up a short steep snow covered hill and it E could barely muster 75' up the hill before coming to a dead stop.

While I can tell you the hill is slippery, in 3 yrs of living on this street I've never not been able to make the hill even in my 3.5" lowered VW Corrado VR6.

It seems that the traction control just killed any momentum and eventually almost all but stalled the E. It seems that instead of balancing out the drive tires, it completely killed a spinning tire and kept going side to side, eventually driving the RPM's below 1k and almost stalling it.
 

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It seems that the traction control just killed any momentum and eventually almost all but stalled the E. It seems that instead of balancing out the drive tires, it completely killed a spinning tire and kept going side to side, eventually driving the RPM's below 1k and almost stalling it.
Then turn it off!
 

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2wd Element & snow = me not impressed!
Stats: '07 SC w/Sumitomo LHS Mud&Snow tires, 5spd.

On the way home tonight I tried to come up a short steep snow covered hill and it E could barely muster 75' up the hill before coming to a dead stop.

While I can tell you the hill is slippery, in 3 yrs of living on this street I've never not been able to make the hill even in my 3.5" lowered VW Corrado VR6.

It seems that the traction control just killed any momentum and eventually almost all but stalled the E. It seems that instead of balancing out the drive tires, it completely killed a spinning tire and kept going side to side, eventually driving the RPM's below 1k and almost stalling it.

That is a common complaint! I have never seen it on this site, but on other sites, for other brands, This topic comes up almost every year.

All you have to do is turn it off. I know you have studied the Manual !! :grin:

Dom
 

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first snow we have had here at the beach since 89 (before i lived here). but my sc did the same thing....hit the button and got around fine on 3 inches of packed ice with summer tires no sweat. with it on it wouldn't slip but it would just kind of stop going anywhere. I couldn't get over 10mph on flat ground.
 

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First rule of snow driving in both 2wd AND 4wd: TURN OFF TRACTION CONTROL
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I found the off switch today and was going to retry the hill, but it was already mostly plowed and melted. Next time!

I do like the E w/o the TC on better. It feels more "predictable" in the slop.
I also noticed that you must turn it off every time you use the car, but no biggy.
 

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I agree. I have an SC with the stock Goodyear tires. Tire traction is horrible, but I do feel as if I have more control with the VSC off.
 

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100% agree. 2WD E's are not good in snow at all. I had a 2WD for 1.5 years and in KC you're always good for 2-3 good snows (except for this year which is about 5). I have a AWD E now and absolutely LOVE IT. A lot of confidence. My wife always begs me to take the van and she drive the E when it snows.

I guess 2WD is fine in Cali or Florida but in states with snow - you gotta have AWD.
 

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I have never had any isssues with 2wd E in the snow,even with the stock tires,I had a 05 awd E for a year before it got totaled,and was concerned
about going with 2wd, I dont regret it. just take it easy and shift early, if you
have a MT.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The E got stuck in it's parking place yesterday (that was completely dug out) because there was a 6" piece of ice under the driver's front tire. No ice anywhere else, but as long as there was no grip on the left side, the E was halted both with and w/o VSA.

It was pretty frustrating for sure since our Subi. was parked behind a wall of snow and wasn't dug out at all & still drove right through it all w/o issue.

In the end, we threw some sand under the tire and all was good.
We might rethink our 2wd...
 

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if you had a 4WD vehicle and there was also a piece of ice under either rear tire, you still wouldn't have gone anywhere. our vehicles have "open" differentials and they supply the torque to the wheel/tire w/ the least resistance. so you would have had 2 wheels spinning 'til the ice melted.

does your Subi have an LSD, or was it just not sitting on ice?

moral of story: don't park on ice. <grin>
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The Subi doesn't have any aftermarket diffs, but today I hit the hill that caused me to write this first post and the lanes are all dark grey ice. The Subi climbed it.

I stopped in the middle to challenge the little car that could. & well as soon as I came to a halt, the car started to slide backwards, so yeah it was all ice.

I slid myself down and into a snow bank, hit drive and went up the hill.
I did notice that in the Subi, at one point the left front and right rear both spun, but one gained traction that I was up & over.

I think the E's tires are crap for a All-Season M&S tire too, so I won't blame this all on the E.

In the end, I think I'm more spoiled with the Subi than the E is a disappointment. Look up Outback AWD on Youtube and watch the torture people put their Subi through. The simply have AWD down to a science, especially for a factory system.

VW & Audi have a very close 2nd IMO.
 

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100% agree. 2WD E's are not good in snow at all. I had a 2WD for 1.5 years and in KC you're always good for 2-3 good snows (except for this year which is about 5). I have a AWD E now and absolutely LOVE IT. A lot of confidence. My wife always begs me to take the van and she drive the E when it snows.

I guess 2WD is fine in Cali or Florida but in states with snow - you gotta have AWD.
Disagree. I live in Michigan, where it snows for real, and I've had absolutely no problems with my 2wd Element. Hell, last year I drove from Chicago to Detroit through 12 inches of snow on I-94 on bald tires. I had to drive slower, but that's to be expected when there's zero visibility and a lot of snow. Hell, I also drove my old rear-drive Astro van through plenty of snow with no problems. In fact, I have never needed nor wanted an AWD vehicle, and I've lived here all my life.

If anything, all AWD is good for is making people drive like jackasses because they don't realize that their AWD won't make them stop any sooner.
 

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Disagree. I live in Michigan, where it snows for real, and I've had absolutely no problems with my 2wd Element. Hell, last year I drove from Chicago to Detroit through 12 inches of snow on I-94 on bald tires. I had to drive slower, but that's to be expected when there's zero visibility and a lot of snow. Hell, I also drove my old rear-drive Astro van through plenty of snow with no problems. In fact, I have never needed nor wanted an AWD vehicle, and I've lived here all my life.

If anything, all AWD is good for is making people drive like jackasses because they don't realize that their AWD won't make them stop any sooner.

That's cool - just my opinion. All I know is my mother in law lives in the country in Northern Iowa (up a hill) and when it snowed more than 3 inches my previous 07 EX 2WD AT could not make it up the lane - not even close after making "runs" up it. My newer 07 EX AWD MT makes it up with no problem. May be the difference between an Automatic 2WD and a Manual 2WD (you can use clutch play, etc.). My opinion is that AWD is fabulous in snow. I 100% agree with you on the knuckleheads that think AWD/4WD helps you STOP! It doesn't. Kansas City doesn't get seriuous snow (except for this year) but we travel to Iowa a lot and Northern Iowa does.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I must say that the manual is geared so low that there is very little room for feathering the gas pedal. The rpms just shoot through the roof without trying.
 

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4WD in SWPA

My first winter with my 2009 E and I gotta brag and say that I am so impressed on how it goes in the snow. We got 20" of snow last week and it walked right over it until it pushed up so much snow in front of it, it couldn't go any more. My tires aren't optimal, but this E is just a tank once the 4WD kicks in. I have driven many 4WD trucks and I have felt the safest in this one!! LOVE IT!!!
 
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