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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey, folks.

I've been doing a lot of research looking for OEM struts to dial in my frankenstein rear suspension.

What I've found is that 2015 CRV rear struts should provide 3" of rear lift without the use of a spacer block... (which doesn't help me because my lift is all in the springs)

If anyone is trying to go that route, the benefit is that you'll get your lift for the price of a strut replacement (which is nice to have) and aa $40 set of adjustable arms instead of $300 from CCM.

overall weights and balance are the same, so it should be valved properly.

Your still on your own lifting the front...so...

Parts:

OEM Honda PN: 52611-T1W-A03 (2x)
Aftermarket Adjustable Control Arm (2x)
Reuse all other OEM parts (spring, etc.)

Right now that looks like $240 plus shipping to me (with brand shiny new honda struts)... not bad.

Hypothetically we could do the same work in the front and make an all OEM Honda Element lift kit =P

 

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whoa, i saw this exact same chart recently. i forgot where i saw it though. is the crv strut just longer than the element's? is it exactly 3" of lift? if so, might still have to deal with the same issue CCM 3" lift has? cv axle angles.

between +3 and -5 is 8 difference. 5 and 3 is 2 difference. trying to figure how we get 3 outta this.
 

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Oo... you've been doing your homework. This looks promising. How can we be sure the top hats from the Element will mount up on the 2015 CRV struts?

partsbin, I think the "distance spring base to mount" for the 2015 CRV is using a tilde, so ~5", or "about 5 inches." which would make the difference ~2" which (should) yield about 3" of lift. It sounds like the spring perch is just mounted higher, and the overall length is slightly longer (+1.5375", if I'm reading the chart correctly).
 

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check out the 2004 crv extended and compressed numbers. they are almost exactly the same as the elements. that means they are pretty much the same size. novasteve brought up bilstien makes a rear shock for the crv but not the element but the more i look at pictures and now this chart, i think the bilstien can fit onto the element rear. anyone know the spring coil diameters on the crv and the element?

i need rear shocks soon so im researching. i dont know about the 2004 crv front bilsteins fitting but i think the rear can fit. had bilstiens on hr springs back in the day...slammed civic hatch but still rode so nice. going to lift and fix rear camber while im at it.
 

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why did kyb make crv rear struts longer? ran into this when verifying ext and comp lengths. seems the monroes are more similar in size between the element and crv.

element
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/excel-g-4110/suspension---steering-16778/shocks-struts-16482/shocks-struts-16524/shock-strut-12872/2be3c4448ea2/kyb-excel-g-strut/344611/4408278/2004/honda/element?fitAttr_10039=Show+All&fitAttr_10010=Show+All&pos=12

crv
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/excel-g-4110/suspension---steering-16778/shocks-struts-16482/shocks-struts-16524/shock-strut-12872/2be3c4448ea2/kyb-excel-g-strut/341488/4407943/2004/honda/cr-v?pos=19


called bilstein about their crv rear shock. extend length - 16.49 compress length - 11.14. this is good because the crv shock looks like the spring mount is an inch higher than the elements according to images from the web. if the crv spring mount is 1" more than the element then that means this bilstein shock should give me 1" or so of lift.
 

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Ooo that's also interesting. I didn't notice the spring perch was higher on the 2nd Gen CR-V rears. The rear lift ratio for the E isn't 1:1 though. More like 1.6:1 (per Cursh), so 1" higher perch would yield 1.6" lift. Not too shabby.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I just need to go into NAPA and take some measurements. With my plans to modify the top hat, I’m sure I can eventually weld something that I’m confident in but I’d rather just get something off the shelf.

I’ll take photos. Tomorrow might be a good day. More delays at work so I’m just killing time waiting for the next stage to start.
 

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will napa let you compare the struts side by side? that'd be nice. do a side by side 2005 crv vs element struts.

i already ordered the bilsteins yesterday, so either way, i'll find out about them rears.

cursh, are you modifying the top hat to drop your rear lift height a bit? if so, i heard that rsx or civic, i forget which and which gen, used similar shocks to our element and crv, just with lower spring perches. something like that...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
They did not let me in to do that today. They said it would be too hard to work around the inventory system, so we'd have to look them up one at a time by car without being able to narrow down to the right type of mounts/whatever.

They suggested I download the Monroe spec calendar they apparently have a PDF that shows a spreadsheet of information or so.

http://www.monroe.com/downloads/install-instructions-guides/MonroeMountingLengthSpecifications.pdf

Maybe adobe pro can export this as a spreadsheet or CSV that I can put into excel That would be useful. Starting with the element strut PN as a baseline (which I should have put into that spread sheet but didn't, lol) we'd be able to organize by mount type, length, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
OK. The Monroe list didn't export Kindly so I've got it up on fiver for someone to pull all the SS2 (whatever code the element style shock is) out and put it into a CSV file.

They don't list the distance from the bottom mount to the spring perch, which is important. any + or - there works out as a lift or drop. The listed measurements only matter if you changed your spring length (like I did here.) for every inch of height you need 2/3" of shock (roughly)

I'm at 1/2" of extra strut for each inch and it feels a little bit like the shocks are going (they are just not in their sweet spot yet.) so I think going longer is safer than going shorter. I also suspect that having a longer overall range gives you a wider band of hitting the sweet spot, so I'm also looking at that. Everything I've said so far is an assumption I have based on doing this one time to one car. I am not a mechanic or a trained engineers.

I think the same lift ratio goes for the spring perch to mounting hole dimensions. I'm ok with having up to an extra inch from where I am now (trailer still sags the truck like crazy.) so I've got about 0 to +3/4" of wiggle room on the spring perch with these tundra shocks for them to work out.

Big money, big money, daddy wants some bilsteins.

[update, I went to NAPA after forgetting to hit "post"]

  • our rear strut is 3.5" from the center of the bottom mount to the highest point on the spring perch (there is a notch on one side. I measure to the top of the notch)
  • The tundra is 6" from mount center to spring perch. =( That's a 4" lift and allows for another 3-4" in strut length. I'm sure that's a bad idea.
  • The Chevy Colorado front end is a little bit better at 5.5", which is a 3" lift and has only a moderate amount of room for sprint lift (which no one here has or wants, but me that one time and maybe now I would have just rather done this.)
I'm considering ways to move the spring mount, which would be very problem solvy for me. I could maybe mill a groove for the circlip to sit in, but that makes me V nervous. I don't know how thick those walls are.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I thought that I could probably make a new groove pretty easily and asked Bilstein about it. They actually offer that service for $10 per ring and say it shouldn't degrade the strength of the shock.

Hello,

Below is a link to our service page. You are welcome to send the dampers to us with a measurement on where you want the groove machined (measure from the bottom of eye ring to the desired groove location) the charge is $10 per groove machined. We do not reinforce the wall thickness where the grooves are cut they do not compromise body integrity.

The service sheet has a PDF and shipping instructions if you decide to go that route. If you decide to machine the grooves on your own you can order additional snap rings part number 2522880.


https://www.bilstein.com/us/en/technology-and-knowledge/service/

thanks for your inquiry
That means that the tundra shocks are the right ones for me. I just need to remachine the grooves for my appropriate height (about an inch and a half below where it sits now.) I don't think we've got the cash to pull it off right now, so Its on hold for the time being.

I think the Chevy Colorado is the right shock for anyone else trying to do this. You could do the bilstiens 4600 series and machine new groves (or live with the 3" of lift) and just use the factory springs
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Ok.

Here's the spreadsheet with Monroe struts that fit the same top and bottom mount for our element. You should be able to view and comment. If anything ends up being wrong or if you find additional information (like the distance between the bottom mount hole and the spring perch) just comment to let me know.

This means it can’t grow without me (shucks) but hopefully won’t quickly degrade from folks edits (yay)

Remember to measure from the center of the hole to the highest point on the spring perch.

Happy hunting...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uX3HNpB9euinjZbIqSrw7d-BITbGyWDxCZOMtfTBA9Y/edit?usp=sharing
 

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Looks like you need to give permission for anyone to view that doc. I'd be interested in taking a gander. I just picked up a full set of OEM Element struts (used, 70k miles, everything but the top mounts) for $30, so now I have a spare set to compare dimensions.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
****snacks. And now that I've given everyone access, no one can comment.

Oh well.
That's too bad.
 

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nice. ss2 strut type means 14mm eye bottom and stem top?

71380 is 2003 crv. if someone has a 2nd gen crv and can get the bottom shock mount to the bottom spring perch measurement would be nice. i contacted bilstein and the guy didn't know the numbers. only ext and com #s. also, bilstein is back ordered on the 4600 crv shocks until october so i canceled my order. i'll be back tho

72497 is 2007-2011 crv.
 

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So.... maybe I'm looking at the Monroe PDF completely wrong, but bear with me.

For the FRONT struts, it looks like the Element uses a B17 style. It looks like there are a few B17 style struts from Toyota Highlanders/Lexus RX330 and Sienna's that have longer bodies (+2-3") and similar shock travels. I have no idea what their spring diameters/lengths would be, but it might be worth looking into those options.

The part numbers I found were:

802236/7 (Toyota Sienna)
72213/4 (Toyota Highlander/ Lexus RX330)
72211/2 (Toyota Highlander/ Lexus RX330)

Scratch that: It looks like the steering arms are considerably different....
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yeah. I’ve been thinking a bit about that too. The mounts on the Toyota shocks might serve as good reference for a milled steering clamp or something.

I also keep getting back to the element’s travel being so long up front and not feeling any remorse about just using spacers. Access to the bilsteins up front would be nice though.
 

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I did do a comparison for the 2nd Gen CR-V Struts up front (72143, 72144) using the Monroe Sheet and it's a bit odd. The left and right struts have different specs.

72143 is listed as a B14 style with 6.6" of travel and 13.900" body length

72144 is listed as a B17 style with 6.7" of travel and 14.720" body length, yet both strut bodies look the same, aside from being mirrored.

This is consistent on their website catalog too... I'm stumped. The bad news is, both of them have less travel than the E at 7.13" (Not by much, but it could be enough to cause trouble. I wonder if the Bilstein specs would be different though (assuming their the same Left to right)
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
The only unsolicited advice I got was to overshoot the strut length (some random guy at the pull a part yard. No way to vet that source.

Also, I can’t remember where but I found a typeo on one of the front pairs that looked like a possible swap. Something was off and one side was 10” longer and had 10” more travel than the other. Unlikely a difference from left to right. If there was though, I’d bet the nerds from Honda would be the ones to do it.

When all else fails, I’d check at Napa.

It also looks like B10 and B17 are the same mount with a slight veriation on where the strut body ends.

The same is true with SS1 (no spring perch) and ss2. Makes me want to pay another $10 to have the rest of the data spread sheeted.
 

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shooting for more length can be more trouble than less length. with too much length you can seriously damage the shock by crushing it. too little length just means you will have less droop. to get the compress numbers the same is the most important...same or less.

nerds at toyota did it in 1979 with the toyota pickup 4x4 all the way to 1985 including the 4runner. the front springs were different heights. i owned 3 of them from 79-85. over 20 years or so the springs would sag and one side would always be 1" lower than the other. so i think it is possible honda has done the difference from side to side.

does the monroe info have valving specs? some of these shocks are on HD trucks


also, i have been thinking of ebay coil adjusters but i don't think the coil adjusters spring perch can hold a stock spring....only those tiny diameter springs. seen videos of them slipping right over bilstein shocks. dont know enough about then tho
 
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