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Discussion Starter #1
i want to replace my factory sub, and use a mono amp to power it. regaurdless of price, and manufacture, what would you recommend by looking at specs? what sub would perform best?

JL specs

Kicker specs

Tang Band specs


and if you guys know of any other 6.5" subs on the market, please share. i know its not a very common size.

i know the ED (elemental design) is hot in the community, but i called, they only have 4ohm, DVC subs left... a 2ohm series, or a 8 ohm parallel final impedance isn't going to work with me. i have to stay with 4 ohm final impedance.
 

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FYI - You can go the ED route, and only hook up one voice coil for a 4 ohm total load - you don't have to use both voice coils. The JL or Kicker would be fine, too.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
1 voice coil? wont' the sub only be working 1/2 its capacity?

i would think a 4 ohm DVC would work alot better than a 4ohm DVC wired with only 1 VC.. thats like running a 8 cylinder engine on 4 cylinders... just because it works, doesn't mean its right.

i mean it would work, and if not pushed over its limits, im sure it would continue to work, but why would you do it if you didn't have to?

unless you can convince me i can run 150W on a single VC and expect full speaker performance, im all ears....
 

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wouldnt hooking up only one voice coil put the speaker out of phase. I've never heard of this beeing a good thing to do
 

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Out of phase? No. You'll more than likely be using a mono channel feed to your sub, and additionally, most sub outputs have a phase reversal switch if you want to change it (if not, just swap + and - connections to reverse phase).

Do matter how a DVC speaker is hooked up, its "power handling levels, frequency response, and other specifications do not change — the only difference is the impedance presented to the amplifier." Quote is taken straight from Crutchfield. The advantage of DVC subs is the flexibility they offer in installation.

1/2 it's capacity? I guess you could look at it that way, but 1/2 a DVC sub's capacity would be equal to a single voice coil sub's full capacity. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using only one coil.
 

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That is wrong because now you are pushing an extra coil with no power. Taken from another site

the best way I could describe this is if you were to disconnect half of the cylinders of your car, and then slapped a trailer on it. When you only drive one coil on a DVC speaker, you create a load by dragging the other coil of the disconnected speaker. This will creat heat, and you will burn the coil on the one that is hooked up. I know, I learned the hard way................... dvc subs are ment to have both hooked up, doesn't matter if they are in series or parallel.

Jl Audio states:

A dual voice coil speaker will behave exactly the same way whether it is wired with its coils in series or parallel. The only thing that changes is the impedance that the amplifier sees. This means that enclosure calculations are constant for dual voice coil woofers no matter how the coils are connected to each other, as long as both are connected.

A common misconception with regard to dual voice coil speakers is the assumption that nothing changes if you power only one of the voice coils. With only one coil hooked up, a dual voice coil speaker will suffer a loss in reference efficiency of about 3dB (only half the coil windings are being energized) as well as a significant shift in its Thiele/Small parameters. This renders any enclosure calculations inaccurate unless you remeasure the speakers parameters with only one coil hooked up. Failure to account for the different parameters of a dual voice coil speaker with only one coil powered can result in very poor performance.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
i can't see running a DVC on one coil being good. if anything, running it at full DVC wattage.

for instance. i can't see a 300RMS DVC - being wired to 1 coil at full 300RMS wattage. thats 200% of its intended RMS power on that coil.

how can a DVC sub wired to 1 VC take the full RMS power? it can't. so buying a 4 ohm DVC sub, and running 1 coil is stupid. or at least don't expect full performance.

so i wont' be buying elemental designs. kickers CVT65 is looking pretty nice right now. less than half the price of JL, and comparable. actually a lower HZ than JL.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
1/2 it's capacity? I guess you could look at it that way, but 1/2 a DVC sub's capacity would be equal to a single voice coil sub's full capacity. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using only one coil.
huh?

no, a DVC sub is designed to be wired, DVC and powered DVC. a Single VC sub is designed to be ran with its 1 coil.

how can you make a statement that a DVC sub ran with 1 coil will put the same capacity as a single voice coil? a single VC's windings are larger and twice the size of 1 coil of a DVC sub. DVC's were made, and designed half the size of single VC's for ... like you said, impedance wiring options. the power capability doens't change.

if a 300RMS DVC sub is designed for 300w... its going to get 300w.
if a 300RMS SVC sub is designed for 300w, its going to get 300w.
if a 300RMS DVC sub is designed for 300w, and its wired only on ONLY the single VC, and power 300RMS, that 1 coil will toast very quickly. it can't take that load. a DVC sub should only be rated for half its RMS load. not equal to a SVC capacity... thats crazy.
 

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FYI - You can go the ED route, and only hook up one voice coil for a 4 ohm total load - you don't have to use both voice coils. The JL or Kicker would be fine, too.
WOW, that is beyond wrong big guy. I have been istalling car audio for 12 years and this is a big NO NO. My grandfather used to own a speaker wholesale house and I was taught all the ins and out of the speaker.

If you were to run the sub like that, it will blow out the voice coil due to the strain and friction of pulling a dead coil. It will rattle, pop, or in other terms, sound blown from the get go. Most dvc subs when they blow it is because 1 voice coil is gone, it is very rear to blow both coils at the same time.

I had a Rockford dvc 12 that I loved and hammered on for 3 years, I paid a mere $20.00 for it from my grandfather. One day it started to pop and rattle but still played and was about 1/2 the level of volume. I took it to my gf and we tore it apart, sure as heck, the outside vc was split, we replaced it and two weeks later the other one went because I used it for a week with only 1 voice coil, I said screw it and threw it out and bought a new one for another $20.00.

By the way, he passed away so dont ask if I can get you discounted speakers, I cant anymore and it sucks.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
sorry to hear about your gf...

yeah, i can't see it working. back to the engine analogy, i can't see a V8 running on 4 cylinders and actually thinking it was going to perform good, or actually not damage the engine internally.

anyways, i think the subject has been covered. and ive ordered the kicker CVT65. 28-300hz 150RMS sub. should sound just as good as the W3, and the ED 7K...
 

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you can run a DVC sub with just 1 VC hooked up. but remember DVC raiting is for both coils.

damage is caused by overpower one VC. just feed less than half of the DVC rating if you're feeding 1 VC

anyways.. if you have Dual 4ohm DVC just hook them up in series for 8ohm.. output difference is minimal. just less stressful on your amp.

I run most of my 4ohm DVC subs in 8ohm config and see little difference in output
 

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you can run a DVC sub with just 1 VC hooked up. but remember DVC raiting is for both coils.

damage is caused by overpower one VC. just feed less than half of the DVC rating if you're feeding 1 VC

anyways.. if you have Dual 4ohm DVC just hook them up in series for 8ohm.. output difference is minimal. just less stressful on your amp.

I run most of my 4ohm DVC subs in 8ohm config and see little difference in output
Think about what your saying....if it was actually ok for you to run a single coil on a DVC sub, then it would show it in the wiring configurations on the owner's manual of the sub, because that is the most common reason a DVC sub is used, to offer flexability in the application to obtain the best performance out of the amp.

The reason we need this flexability counters the last statement you made.
I have personally very rarely seen an instance when using a dual 4ohm coiled sub wired in series (yielding an 8 ohm load) had much less output than the dual 4ohm coils wired in parallel (yielding a 2 ohm load). If there isn't much difference, it's usually do to the enclosure being designed wrong/having the wrong airspace which limits the sub from performing properly in the first place, reguardless of power input.


I am not arguing the fact that you have personally used only one coil on a DVC sub, but you never have and you never will get the true output the woofer can make nor the longevity.
 

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Built B16A - let us know how the Kicker turns out, it looks like a good sub as well.

I'm not trying to argue or sound like a know-it-all (cause I ain't), but from reading up on this, you can install a resistor on the coil not used if only running one coil to keep the sub operating safely. In fact, you can actually tune the sub performance characteristics, (Qts characteristics) depending on the resistor value used.

I would guess the reason this is never covered in DVC wiring configurations is because if you're buying a DVC sub, you're choosing that sub over a SVC sub for a reason. No matter how it's wired up, you're still using the same motor mechanism (magnet, spider, etc...) of the speaker. Electromagnetic characteristics do not exactly equate on a parallel level to those of an internal combustion engine.

Check this out: http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp~TID~74640~PN~1
 

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Built B16A - let us know how the Kicker turns out, it looks like a good sub as well.

I'm not trying to argue or sound like a know-it-all (cause I ain't), but from reading up on this, you can install a resistor on the coil not used if only running one coil to keep the sub operating safely. In fact, you can actually tune the sub performance characteristics, (Qts characteristics) depending on the resistor value used.

I would guess the reason this is never covered in DVC wiring configurations is because if you're buying a DVC sub, you're choosing that sub over a SVC sub for a reason. No matter how it's wired up, you're still using the same motor mechanism (magnet, spider, etc...) of the speaker. Electromagnetic characteristics do not exactly equate on a parallel level to those of an internal combustion engine.

Check this out: http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp~TID~74640~PN~1
I have still never seen any mfg. show wiring one coil as an option. Again, not saying it's never been done and I am not discounting that article, but it is not common practice, at least what I've seen since being an installer for 15 years. I'll be honest, I didn't read the article, so I wonder how the weight of the "dead" coil affect the damping of the sub.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
at the end of the day, im going to use a kicker CVT65 SINGLE VOICE COIL sub.

this whole conversation, and debate was related to the guy that said you can use 1 coil off a DVC sub at full capacity which is crap.

anyways.. i will prolly create a new thread, with the kicker install when i receive it, and install it.

anyways, thanks guys.
 

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at the end of the day, im going to use a kicker CVT65 SINGLE VOICE COIL sub.

this whole conversation, and debate was related to the guy that said you can use 1 coil off a DVC sub at full capacity which is crap.

anyways.. i will prolly create a new thread, with the kicker install when i receive it, and install it.

anyways, thanks guys.
Well, good luck :cool:
 

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you will kill your sub if you run one voice coin on a DVC at full power. understand how a speaker produces sound from voice coil (electro magnet) and you will understand why.

you cannot damage your sub running speaker under powered
 
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