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I recently had my 2007 Element EX serviced at the local dealer. The service tech found the outboard surface of my passenger-side rear rotor to be corroding, causing rapid pad wear (outside pad is 3mm vs. 6mm for inside pad). Opposite rear rotor is fine at 6mm, both sides. The car has only 9,000 miles on it.

They gave me an estimate of $330 to turn the rotor and replace the pads, explaining it was not covered under warranty b/c they chalk it up to "environmental conditions". I live in Hawaii, so there's no road salt, and not enough salty air where my car is compared to other places. How can this be environmental if the problem exists on only ONE surface of ONE rotor? I feel like I'm getting taken for a ride (no pun intended). I'm no mechanic, but doesn't this sound like a caliper/slider problem?

I called American Honda. They were neither technical nor helpful, and said there's nothing they can do. There seems to be no appeal process for this. This is the first time I have had a problem there. I have two 2007 Hondas purchased from said dealer.

Something about this whole thing is tweaking my BS meter...
Honda pads start out at around 10-12mm on average for new pads depending on if they are front or rear. For you to have 6mm remaining after 9,000miles/14,458kms does seem a bit premature, but I think we'd have to see the condition of your rotor and caliper brackets before making any determination as to if you are the victim of hungry flat rate techs :lol:.

I know when I have serviced brakes at work, I've seen uneven wear from side-to-side but it is normally caused by lack of service and/or pads being seized in the brackets and held against the rotor surface. Severe uneven pad wear from side-to-side might see a faulty caliper as suspect, or having the pistone groove orientation set improperly on calipers with the parking brake mechanism built into the caliper itself.

I work at a dealership and I know we have had several CRVs and the odd Element with faulty rear calipers which cause premature wear on one pad only. But it is tough to say without actually looking at the parts themselves to see what condition they are in. Hopefully you can get the problem straightened out soon man.
 

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Thanks for the reply. I realize that it'd be impossible for someone in the forums to tell me what is happening with my brakes. I just wanted to share my experience and possibly find out if anyone had a similar problem.

I'd like proof from them that it is environment that is causing the corrosion and not a stuck slide pin on the caliper or similar, any suggestions on how to isolate the problem? The rotor is not visibly different than the others (like I would expect surface rust to be), but when you run your finger across it, it feels bumpy. I'm thinking the slide pin may be suspect, since the piston is on the inside surface of the rotor, and that pad is okay. How can it be environment if it is ONE side of the rotor?

Coincidentally, in the meantime, the dealer's service center has mailed me a coupon for $50 off a disc brake job on my element.
 

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every state has lemon laws. No dealer is immune to bad press.

For what it's worth I live in Chicago. They use tons and tons of salt on the roads every winter. I drive 70 miles/day on my commute.

38,000 miles on my E in just of 2 years. Not one single brake issue. original brakes.

Sounds to me you got a dud. a bad caliper... something.

I'm sorry but any brake failure at less than 10,000 miles is ridiculous.
 

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every state has lemon laws. No dealer is immune to bad press.

For what it's worth I live in Chicago. They use tons and tons of salt on the roads every winter. I drive 70 miles/day on my commute.

38,000 miles on my E in just of 2 years. Not one single brake issue. original brakes.

Sounds to me you got a dud. a bad caliper... something.

I'm sorry but any brake failure at less than 10,000 miles is ridiculous.
I agree, brake failure at less than 10,000 miles is ridiculous.

However, accelerated or uneven brake wear due to not servicing for 30,000-40,000 miles is not uncommon, especially in areas which see significant use of road salt.

Perhaps some people might not have any brake issues for some time but keeping them properly and regularly serviced prevents bigger problems down the road, not to mention giving you a heads-up as to what you may need in the future.

You have no idea how many customers we get that are completely floored when they come in and we tell them they need their front and rear pads and rotors replaced. Yet they seem to forget the several services they skipped, which any one of them would have given us the opportunity to alert them to the fact that the rotors are developing rust buildup or they needed a good cleaning and service.

Not knocking anyone here in this thread, just making a comment in general from someone who sees things from the technician side of it. I may be the EOC's onofficial and self-proclaimed regular scheduled maintenance Nazi, but there is a method to my madness :lol:
 

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Good thread. If I've read this carefully, I'm #4 on the right rear (or as someone said, passenger side outboard) pad being completely worn down to the backing plate. The other three were 80% or so of spec. '07 LX with 30,800 miles.

replaced with ceramic pads from Pep Boys and lubed the sliders. One of the bolts came right off without me holding the slider pin head in place with a wrench, I believe that slider was corroded.
 

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Good thread. If I've read this carefully, I'm #4 on the right rear (or as someone said, passenger side outboard) pad being completely worn down to the backing plate. The other three were 80% or so of spec. '07 LX with 30,800 miles.

replaced with ceramic pads from Pep Boys and lubed the sliders. One of the bolts came right off without me holding the slider pin head in place with a wrench, I believe that slider was corroded.
Sometimes the sliders won't move when you remove the bolt if they have not been disassembled for some time but they are still okay. The real indicator to see if your sliders are seized is to try and move them in and out by hand. LOL I've had some where I had to put the bracket in a vice and using vice grips on the slider, turn and pull repeatedly to get it out. This is due to shoddy service or neglect as properly inspected and cared for sliders should never get so bad before the problem is caught.

If it's difficult or you don't feel it doing so smoothly, take it out, clean it off and re-lubricate it. If the slider has rust on it or tough dirt buildup, check to make sure the boots are installed properly and that they're not torn. If all looks to be kosher, it could be that moisture just made it's way at one time and caused some corrosion. This is what I do in those cases:

  1. Using a wire wheel or brush depending on how severe the buildup is, I clean the slider surface off completely.
  2. I carefully pull the boot out of the bracket (it has a tongue-and-groove design)
  3. I have a small long wire brush which looks like a pipe cleaner that I've cut the handle end off so it can be placed into a drill chuck. I then use it in a drill to hone out and clean the slider cavity in the bracket.
  4. When this is done, a healthy spray of brake cleaner into the slider cavity you just cleaned to flush out the grime. Repeat the wire brushing honing until you are satisfied it is clean. Two or three times is usually enough even for bad cases of seized sliders.
  5. Lubricate the slider with fresh silicone paste
  6. Clean out the slider boot, lubricate the end where it sits in the bracket and reinstall the slider.
Regardless, sliders SHOULD be removed, cleaned and re-lubricated with new silicone paste on EVERY brake service. It's what I do for brake services at the dealership here and all thing being considered and equal, those vehicles don't come back with problems if they follow the recommended maintenance schedule.

The poopy thing is the calipers may not exhibit difficult movement when turning them back or removing them so in some cases it is a matter of trial and error. A year or so ago a CRV came in and the customer was not a regular at the dealership here and we had no service history on them. They were complaining of a grinding in the back while driving which got louder when braking. When I went out to get the vehicle, the left rear rotor was scored and the pad was visibly worn down to the metal backing plate. Both sides were similar so I assumed they had run them down too low. Replaced rear pads and rotors, serviced everything up nice and had them on their way. Not more than two or three months later they came back with the same noise. Left rear rotor scored, pad worn to metal same as before. It was then I realized the caliper was faulty and had to replace it.

Thing was, the caliper turned back smoothly and without obvious difficulty so you would not know it was faulty, especially if the vehicle is not a regular around the shop. It was just one of those things where you can't read minds or see into the future so you didn't know it had a problem until it came back.
 

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Same issue @ 24K

:mad:Same issue @ 24K. It was the rear driver side for me. I caught it early enough to only replace the pads with slight wearing on the rotor. I didn't understand the rootcause for the wear but now understand it can be taken care of by lubricating the system well. This is a bad design / manufacturing issue for Honda. I'm really disapointed that they would let a know issue such as this be dragged out this long with not addressing it. Rear brake pads should last longer than the fronts!!!

Did this happen on the early models too? I have an 07' model.
 

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:mad:Same issue @ 24K. It was the rear driver side for me. I caught it early enough to only replace the pads with slight wearing on the rotor. I didn't understand the rootcause for the wear but now understand it can be taken care of by lubricating the system well. This is a bad design / manufacturing issue for Honda. I'm really disapointed that they would let a know issue such as this be dragged out this long with not addressing it. Rear brake pads should last longer than the fronts!!!

Did this happen on the early models too? I have an 07' model.
See Dan's comment below \/ \/ \/ \/

Did the mechanic check/lube the sliders at the 10K and 20K service intervals?
I witnessed solid real world shop proof that unserviced brakes CAN cause premature wear issues. We had an '08-style Accord come in that had never been serviced since it was purchased new. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of 30,000kms. The rear pads were worn down to the metal backing plates and scored the rotors, necessitating replacement of both pad AND rotor. The cause?

Pads seized into the brackets due to service neglect.

Regardless of what people may think about brakes, in the end it all comes down to this:

PERFORMING YOUR RECOMMENDED MAINTENANCE ON TIME OR AS INDICATED ON YOUR MAINTENANCE MINDER.

Period.

Barring any faulty components or shoddy service work by unethical techs, you should have no problems with your brakes IF you follow Honda's schedule, be it the timeframe/kms intervals or the maintenance minder system.

We have customers who come in religiously for service and the only issues there are with brakes is if a caliper or slider boot happens to get torn in the interim or if it is a dirt road vehicle. Even then, if the recommended maintenance schedule is followed there should still not be any significant issues with the Honda braking systems, and a technician should not have to go to any great lengths to service them up properly.

Rear pads wearing out around the 60-70,000KMS mark is not a grossly unusual thing, especially for vehicles driven in a lot of stop-and-go traffic. Many times with the way brake rotors wear, replacement of the rotor is usually necessary when the pads are replaced. Even the most well maintained brakes will exhibit rust buildup somewhere on the rotor which will groove into the pad. Some people my get away with leaving the factory rotors on when the factory set of pads are replaced, but don't blow a gasket when your service advisor informs you that rotor replacement is recommended. The problem arises when people DON'T replace the rotors (usually done to save money) and the buildup on the rotor surface simply eats into the new pads and over time works it's way into the center of the rotor's braking surface from both the inner and outer edges. I have seen rotors with an inboard braking surface where the shiny and still good part of the rotor was no wider than your thumb. If you sure you don't need rotors or would simply like to see why, it is your right to ask to see the parts. Just try to do so BEFORE you cash out and leave because they may get pitched into the scrap bin under the assumption you don't care to see them.

Again, speaking from my experience working as a Honda tech for the last five years, all things being equal your brakes should wear normally and depending on your driving conditions should last anywhere from 60-100,000kms for the fronts and 60-80,000kms for the rears. Again, those are estimates and can vary greatly depending on your driving habits and conditions.
 

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Did the mechanic check/lube the sliders at the 10K and 20K service intervals?
I've never heard rear brakes needing any attention until the fronts do. I think either honda just designed the pads to tight into the sliders or the parts were running on the higher side of the tolerance when built. I replaced them w/ aftermarket pads and they didn't seem as tight when placed into the sliders.

As for the 10k maint interval that's just a ploy to get ppl to go to the dealer to spend money on something that is not needed. I agree that grease needs to be put onto the sliders when the pads are replaced but never in-between brake jobs. I have had crappy cars when I was in high school and college and never put any grease on the sliders and never had an issue even after 200k.
 

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I agree. THe maintenance requirements for Honda brakes is ridiculous. I have a 17 year old Subaru Legacy which needed 1 rear brake service at the 12 year mark. I never serviced the brakes other than when the pads were worn down and the rotors replaced at the same time. There is no reason other than $$$ why the brakes on CRVs and Elements need this much service.
MrBill5
 

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I've never heard rear brakes needing any attention until the fronts do. I think either honda just designed the pads to tight into the sliders or the parts were running on the higher side of the tolerance when built. I replaced them w/ aftermarket pads and they didn't seem as tight when placed into the sliders.

As for the 10k maint interval that's just a ploy to get ppl to go to the dealer to spend money on something that is not needed. I agree that grease needs to be put onto the sliders when the pads are replaced but never in-between brake jobs. I have had crappy cars when I was in high school and college and never put any grease on the sliders and never had an issue even after 200k.
I agree. THe maintenance requirements for Honda brakes is ridiculous. I have a 17 year old Subaru Legacy which needed 1 rear brake service at the 12 year mark. I never serviced the brakes other than when the pads were worn down and the rotors replaced at the same time. There is no reason other than $$$ why the brakes on CRVs and Elements need this much service.
MrBill5
My apologies if I'm reading this wrong but you two let your brakes go unserviced for almost a DECADE???? Wow.

While you may think dealerships are simply out to get your money, regular scheduled maintenance is not a "ploy" or a scam. As a Honda technician myself who prides himself on his work ethic and morals, I can say with complete honesty it is a legitimate process of owning a vehicle which, when performed properly and on time, can help lengthen the life of the vehicle and it's components. The primary way it achieves this is by catching problems early on before they become major repairs down the road.

Servicing brakes in between pad replacement actually helps to give you MORE life from your components. How do I know this? Because I see vehicles of customers who are religious with their service and customers who quite honestly don't give two ****s about it. All things considered and equal, care to know who ends up with a hefty repair bill LONG before the other one?

Three guesses and your first two don't count.

One thing which makes me shake my head every time (but also makes me grateful I'm not a front-line advisor dealing with the customers for a living) is people who come into the shop and think oil changes are the magic exlixir for cars. They refuse to have ANY service done then blow a gasket when they need all their pads and rotors replaced as well as having their brackets bead blasted, sliders wire wheeled and slider cavities re-honed out. I won't even get into the transmission woes people cry about when a quick check of their service history shows they change their ATF every 100,000kms if they're lucky.

Sorry no sympathy from me. I have told several customers in the nicest way possible that their problem COULD have been prevented had they come in for regular scheduled maintenance. They could have been told that, while servicing the brakes, I noted that the pads were getting low but the rotors were still ok and they could have done well enough with simply a pad replacement that day or in the very near future.

However, they chose to assume that scheduled maintenance is a plot to steal everyone's money and never even had them looked at to begin with. So now they are at the service counter whining and crying because they came in complaining of a noise from the brakes which they neglected that wore down to the pads and necessitated rotor replacement as well as major cleaning of related components to bring everything back up to par. They now face a $1K brake job bill when it could have simply been a pad replacement and quick service for 1/4 to 1/3 the price.

See my point?

In all honesty, you two are lucky. Not servicing your brakes for YEARS up here in Canada is a gamble where everyone loses. Sliders can seize in and became bonded with the bracket which prevents proper operation, pads can get stuck and wear unevenly or they can be held tight against the rotor and are not allowed to move relatively free in the brackets as they are designed to. This means they can stay pressed against the rotor, causing severe uneven or premature wear which can result in excessive drag which can also result in overheating which in turn ultimately can cause the caliper to go for a poop. However, what most people don't know is until your caliper pukes, your stuck pads will still work and most people realistically won't notice the drag increase or performance reduction.

So your proverbial brake bill silently gets bigger and bigger and you don't even know it.
 

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And I have a 1998 Toyota Avalon that needed its brakes done at the 8 year, 65,000 mile mark. Beyond brake fluid changes every 3 years (do that on the Subaru too) that is all the brake work it has needed.

Before that it was a 1989 Subaru Justy, 85,000 miles, never touched the brakes.

And before that was a 1980 Dodge Colt. 89,000 miles, never touched those brakes.

So I guess I am lucky again.

And let it be known, PA uses a LOT of salt on the roads in the winter time. Its not a southern state where it snows maybe once a decade.

Now don't forget, Pennsylvania has annual inspections and they visually check for brake pad thickness and fluid leakage.

So if Subaru and Toyota can make brakes that don't need lubricating every 10,000 to 20,000 miles then maybe some of the engineers at Honda need to see how it's done.
MrBill5
 

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And I have a 1998 Toyota Avalon that needed its brakes done at the 8 year, 65,000 mile mark. Beyond brake fluid changes every 3 years (do that on the Subaru too) that is all the brake work it has needed.

Before that it was a 1989 Subaru Justy, 85,000 miles, never touched the brakes.

And before that was a 1980 Dodge Colt. 89,000 miles, never touched those brakes.

So I guess I am lucky again.

And let it be known, PA uses a LOT of salt on the roads in the winter time. Its not a southern state where it snows maybe once a decade.

Now don't forget, Pennsylvania has annual inspections and they visually check for brake pad thickness and fluid leakage.

So if Subaru and Toyota can make brakes that don't need lubricating every 10,000 to 20,000 miles then maybe some of the engineers at Honda need to see how it's done.
MrBill5
So you simply leave them until the pads wore out to the point of replacement. Not uncommon and not saying what you're doing is wrong, but ANYONE can simply leave their brakes until they make noise when the pads need to be replaced. Thing is by that time assuming nothing else has worn/seized, you will need rotors too at a minimum. So if you want to replace your rotors every time you do your pads then what you are doing works for you and there's no reason to change it. My parents are the same way and they just drop off their vehicle and pay the bill when they pick it up.

However...

For those of us out there who like to get the most out of this worst investment we call a car, going the extra mile is not an issue and sometimes peace of mind is worth it in the end.

I work at a dealership in southwestern Ontario where the salt is used just as liberally if not MORE than most other places (out salt surplus ran dry for the last two years) and we have seen both Honda and other models come in where customers get nothing but oil changes. I literaly have to use a 24 oz ballpeen hammer with a punch to get the pads out when the vehicle comes in for brake noise. Sometimes I simply unbolt the caliper and pull the entire assembly off and hammer out the pads. And I don't mean tapping them lightly, I'm talking it almost leaves dents in the backing plates. And these vehicles are coming in at around 60,000 KILOMETERS, not miles.

As for design, a "floating caliper" design is essentially the same no matter what company you look at. Honda, Toyota, Subie, whatever. The sliders perform the same job in the same manner but have obvious physical differences depending on the manufacturer and how they choose to make it look. On the whole however, it isn't a Honda-only thing. While I am not an engineer and can't explain the finite physics of the matter, what I can comment on with 100% certainty is I know what lack of proper service can do to brake systems and the problems they can cause. Sure, I see LOTS of vehicles that come in at 16,000kms with brakes that still look brand new and for them, it may not be NEEDED at face value. However it's what they WON'T need to do in the future and the problems they WON'T face because servicing keeps the brake working PROPERLY AND AS INTENDED while also giving the opportunity to spot potential problems before they arise and cause considerable damage and cost.

What a lot of people don't know is your brakes don't simply just stop the vehicle. The design is intended to work in a certain manner and when it doesn't, you can run into problems with uneven/premature wear, drag on the rotors, scoring of the rotors and ultimately decreased fuel efficiency due to brake drag on the rotor. I won't get into the problems you can face with noise, pulsation, overheating and so on.

Again, you can choose to do whatever you wish with your vehicle and I do not begrudge you that right, nor am I saying you are wrong or horrible for doing so. At work I give customers honest options based on my experience in the shop. For example, when I am doing an oil change and turn the tire to bring the valvestem into position to adjust the pressure and I need TWO HANDS to turn the wheel with considerable force, I will ask if the customer would like a brake inspection and service performed. When I get the wheels off, I will check the pads and determine what, if anything, is needed and give them their options after I have finished the service. Yes I'm tooting my own horn here but when I'm done performing what I consider to be a PROPER AND THOROUGH brake service, the difference is night and day. Thankfully, I am in the position to be able to treat customers' cars with the same care and attention to detail that I do my own because I am paid hourly. And for those curious, yes I am still able to beat the times 99% of the time being as picky as I am ;-). Would I make a killing in a flat rate shop? Probably not, but I know I would still go home at night with a full day's pay and a clear conscience.

Being a guy who makes a living doing something most people cannot or choose not to do, I can tell you with honesty that regular scheduled maintenance is not the scam that regular folk have conjured up because they don't like to pay the price of maintaining a vehicle or disagree with dealership door rates.

Oh yes, I just opened up Pandora's Box here. Not directing it at you my friend, just making a general statement. I feel that a lot of the animosity and refusal to do maintenance comes predominantly from the public's viewpoint that we charge too much to do work on a vehicle, and/or that a vehicle should operate fine with little maintenance investment.

This just in....IT'S A CAR AND MOST OF US AT SOME POINT WILL SPEND A LOT OF MONEY TO BUY ONE. So suck it up buttercup. Fixing it is not cheap, but neither is owning a house. Yet people won't bat an eye at spending an assload of money on a house (whether it returns the investment or not) but then complain when they have to spend $60 for "five minutes to hook up the scan tool and pull a code". What they don't know or try to understand is that pulling that code can lead to discovering an issue which requires a $30 part that, if left unchecked, COULD have ultimately resulted in costly engine, ECM or transmission damage. All things being equal, if we simply look at what it cost for a dealer to be able to get to the point to provide you with that insight, you quickly realize that it is reasonable to pay what you do.

And for the record again, I am NOT flat rate and if I sell brake work it is because the customer needs it, not because I want a bigger paycheque. I pride myself on my honesty and work ethic and in this trade it is becoming harder and harder to find techs who are driven by integrity and not income.

Again, sorry for the rant and I did my best not to piss too many people off here :lol:. I just take great pride in the work I do and the amount of heartache I went through to go from a lube guy to an honours Honda certified and nationally licensed tech in less than four years. If things were a scam or a ploy, I would definitely let everyone know.
 

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In the case of the Avalon and Legacy brake jobs. I was told at the annual state inspection that the brake pads were getting thin and needed to be replaced before the next inspection. (which means 1 year later.) In my case I bought the rotors and pads I needed and had the dealers fix the brakes within 3 months. The Legacy needed rotors mostly because I could tell they were warped and also scored. And the Avalon they were changed since it was getting new brake pads. Luckily Brembo rotors are inexpensive.

All other maintenance I do by the book. Auto transmission flushes, overhead belt changes, antifreeze change-outs. The Subaru has gotten annual oil changes over the last 10 years because it gets driven less than 2500 miles annually. The Avalon oil changes 3-4k miles.

I was seriously considering buying an Element up until I read all this crap about the brakes. It is a deal breaker for me.

Oh, Generation X Dad. I would love to have you as my mechanic. I would ask for you personally to work on my cars. I and others can tell you really care about what and how you do your job.
 

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In the case of the Avalon and Legacy brake jobs. I was told at the annual state inspection that the brake pads were getting thin and needed to be replaced before the next inspection. (which means 1 year later.) In my case I bought the rotors and pads I needed and had the dealers fix the brakes within 3 months. The Legacy needed rotors mostly because I could tell they were warped and also scored. And the Avalon they were changed since it was getting new brake pads. Luckily Brembo rotors are inexpensive.

All other maintenance I do by the book. Auto transmission flushes, overhead belt changes, antifreeze change-outs. The Subaru has gotten annual oil changes over the last 10 years because it gets driven less than 2500 miles annually. The Avalon oil changes 3-4k miles.

I was seriously considering buying an Element up until I read all this crap about the brakes. It is a deal breaker for me.

Oh, Generation X Dad. I would love to have you as my mechanic. I would ask for you personally to work on my cars. I and others can tell you really care about what and how you do your job.
Thanks for the good words my friend. LOL as you can tell I take a great deal of pride in the work I do and the trade I'm in and I apologize if I came off a bit sharp. I know today it's getting harder and harder to find guys who are in it for the love of the trade and not for the money. I heard a lot of stories at Honda school about turnover rates at shops being really high because guys are following the money. Aside from workplace politics and personality conflicts which are common in any workplace, I'm happy getting up in the morning knowing I'm going to work doing something I enjoy and take pride in. Sometimes I feel like I'm not appreciated and my talents are being wasted/held down, but as they say good things come to those who wait ;-).

It's good you do the maintenance to your vehicles. You'd be surprised at how many people don't do them, even with the potential for a large repair looming. Brake fluid, engine and HVAC filter changes, transmission fluid, etc are all things I look for on customer history along with brake services. However I'm not greedy about it. If they don't need it, I don't call it. If it's questionable or borderline, I give them options. If it's bad, I recommend it. If they decline, I note everything for them so they can make an informed decision later.

We don't make commission from up-selling and our incentive bonus system works on overall hours for the month in total, not from individual jobs (our bonus from the previous month is added to the first paycheque of the following month). Either way I'm hourly so even if they decline the recommendation, it has no impact on my paycheque at the end of the week which is helpful for budgeting. Even with a REALLY good month (lots of timing belt/water pumps, Type D or E services, etc.) a level 4 or 5 bonus only works out to something like an extra $8-9 per day at the most. On average I can make level 1 or 2 easily without even trying so to me it's just not worth the stress or risk to get caught up in the money.

For me it's quality above quantity always. I can do both comfortably but if I had to choose, I'd much rather take my time and do it right.
 

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Being a guy who makes a living doing something most people cannot or choose not to do, .
I've really learned a lot from your posts, but this line cracked me up! I mean, doesn't that describe all of us? Don't we all do something that either most people can't do or choose not to do? That's why they call it "work" and that's why they pay us to do it! A brain surgeon does something I cannot do and and a waiter doesn't something I choose not to do.

Anyway, I'm just yankin' your chain, keep up with the informative posts.
 

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I've really learned a lot from your posts, but this line cracked me up! I mean, doesn't that describe all of us? Don't we all do something that either most people can't do or choose not to do? That's why they call it "work" and that's why they pay us to do it! A brain surgeon does something I cannot do and and a waiter doesn't something I choose not to do.

Anyway, I'm just yankin' your chain, keep up with the informative posts.
Haha true. Guess I didn't word it as specifically as I could have :lol:.

As for work, like the saying goes:

When you enjoy what you do, you never work a day in your life :)
 

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Gen X dad, I wish I lived in ontario so you could take care of my E. :)

How do you measure the brake pad thickness? can it be done acurately with the E up on a lift and the wheels still on? and what's the term for cleaning and lubing the calipers and sliders that should be done every 10k? I cant find it in the maintenance minder list on ownerlink?
 

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rear brake issues

Hi
I have sifted through multiple forum posts about rear brake issues with the Element and now want to add my story as well as some comments about dealership service - and not to enter a debate with Gen X Dad but just to point out a difference of opinion about this specific issue.

I own an 08 Element that developed the high pitched noise in the rear brake (one poster accurately described it as the same sound as when you run your wet finger around the top of a crystal wine glass!!) in June 09. Took it to the dealers for lube and oil and told them about the noise (which interestingly was intermittent and would stop when you would pull over, put the E-brake on and then drive off and it would be gone for a while) They said they checked it all over and found no problem or issues. mileage at this time 19000
the noise continued off and on thru the summer. In december it was in for an oil change and (my wife brought it in) and was told that the rear brakes were "completely shot and the car was UNSAFE to drive" Mileage @ 24000. Being told this she just went ahead and had them do it. They said the pads were worn out and They brought out one of the rotors to her and it was highly corroded on the outer edges and there was a segment about 1/6 of the "pie" that was actually missing and broken away. (she did not bring it home so I can not post a picture of it) The service manager told her that this was all "normal wear and tear" and $370 dollars and new pads and rotors later I sit wondering ---how could the brakes be normal 5000 miles earlier and then be completely shot 5 short months later...and I have NEVER heard of rear brakes failing a such a low mileage

To me it is suggestive of an issue with either parts or design or both. (and after reading all the posts about calipers, pads getting stuck etc I am now wondering is this just going to reoccur again)
I think I counted at least 10 posts on here with similar complaints. To me, rear brake failure at 20000 miles IS an issue regardless of having been serviced or not and regardless of where I live (ie road salt, sand etc) I have owned several Hondas and as well toyotas and a couple different Amercian made minivans and have never had any issues with the rear brakes even up to 200,000 miles on some of the vehicles.

Unless Gen X Dad can come work over at the honda dealer in Berlin NH I am not going back.....!!!!!

I am currently trying to deal with customer service around the issus. i did call honda USA and basically got "too bad so sad". I am pretty PO'd by it all and feel that Honda usually puts out a very reliable product and wish they would make good on this. If a relatively 'new' vehicle at 20000 miles is 'unsafe' to drive due to what seems like premature part wear then there must be a place to take such complaints???any one have any ideas

I did go to
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm
and filled out the form but not sure if that does anything ---perhaps if others with the same problems form this forum did the same thing it might help.
is there a way to see that this link goes to them as well

thanks
frustrated Maine element
:-(
 
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