Honda Element Owners Club banner
1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So after about 4 years of saying I'm going to put a new stereo in, I'm finally going to do it. Here's my plan:

-New Sub with slightly modded stock sub enclosure
-Components up front
-Coax in the back
-4 Channel Amp under front seat
-Maybe even a little sound deadening....


So I'm going to base this heavily off of Mike's Mod- I even got an old ADS PQ Amp from my friend. 4 Chan Amp under Passenger seat that powers my sub and front speakers, stock amp doing rear speakers. But before I get into details, I have a few questions if anyone can help out. This is mostly, like a personal thread, just to help me keep track. In addition to Mike's Mod, I'm going to use HeftyHonda's install to help

Questions:

1. I'm looking at Kicker 6.5 CVT Sub and JL W6 Sub (I've read some about both, but no real preference right now), but what Ohm should I get if I have an ADS PQ10 Amp? Any other recommendations on subs

2. I'm looking at JL C2-650 Components and Coax. I'm trying to do this on a budget, the more I save the more can go towards other element projects. I've heard of others getting refurbished speakers, but do they hold out for a long time?

3. I already have an under seat inverter with lines to my battery and a fuse. I know I'll need a new fuse for my amp. Anyone have good fuse set ups? I've looked at Rob Dobbs, and it looks nice.

4. Sound deadening. I'm planning on just doing a little to prevent rattle on the speakers. If I do This from amazon, will that actuaklly do much? Unless I'm doing the whole car is it pointless?

5. Ok, for the sub building out, I'm following this and this thread. So any thoughts on ported vs. Sealed? This is a big one for me because this is my first foray into subs. I'm planning on opening up the stock box, putting some sound deadening on the inside, some baffle, and then either sealing or porting the back.

I've seen it sealed with a Kicker 65 CVT that Built B16A did, unported like alexmburgos did, and a few others.

Thanks to anyone that can offer sage advice! I really appreciate it. I'm really excited to finally get a start on this project.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,515 Posts
although a friend did my install, some things that applied to that:

The Kicker CVT sounded terrible so he went with a Cadence 6.5" 4ohm. If memory serves the factory box was sealed for the new woofer. In the end having two tens in the rear spare tire cavity floor the 6.5" isnt needed but now I know. The properly powered door speakers combined with those two tens just x that 6.5" woofer out.

Since your on a budget, speaker wise im very satisfied with the PPI Art A2.65c Components. No issues, are convertible meaning you can mount them as components or coax which leaves you matched speakers. They can be had around $60 a set shipped now. Originally they were about $200 shipped per set.

Look into "CLD Tiles" for help with sound deadening and such.

Make triple sure you run proper gauge wires to your amps. Not giant 0 gauge thats not needed.

Ive also since changed the negative terminal on the battery. Sheesh, forget if the positive was changed too. No real reason but visual.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
599 Posts
No matter what you do, if you keep the sub in the stock enclosure you need to seal the crap out of that thing. Running a ported enclosure on a sub that small with that little power, especially an enclosure made out of plastic, will just make for a loose, imprecise bass output. There's a thread somewhere that shows a member doing a very thorough job of sealing the stock enclosure, see if you can find it.

Good plan to replace the amp on the sub and fronts, but leave the rears on the stock amp. The stock amp isn't quite as bad as some folks make it out to be. It's only really worth replacing if you greatly upgrade the speakers.

And my advice is to spend as much of your budget as you can on sound deadening. It will pay dividends when combined with a lower output system like yours. Don't feel compelled to spend big money on Dynamat, there's a great alternative out there that many members have used called RaamMat (www.raamaudio.com) and it costs WAY less than the big name brands. Their website has good info on how to properly install the mat and Ensolite foam insulation. You'll be amazed at the difference it makes. Plan on covering the front and rear doors and tailgate at a minimum, and if you have any money left do as much of the floor and ceiling as you can.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,515 Posts
Also I highly, as high as space, suggest a deck upgrade. If you go for the PPI speakers that should shave off a couple hundred from your budget that will allot for the deck. It doesnt need to be a brand new off the shelf deck, good used gear these days is just as good as new. With everything going digital, less moving parts means less chance of premature failure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
599 Posts
Also I highly, as high as space, suggest a deck upgrade. If you go for the PPI speakers that should shave off a couple hundred from your budget that will allot for the deck. It doesnt need to be a brand new off the shelf deck, good used gear these days is just as good as new. With everything going digital, less moving parts means less chance of premature failure.
Of course, how could we neglect to tell him he needs a deck!

The Kenwood KDC Excelon line is fantastic and models from 2-3 years ago can be had for a song. An entry level Excelon deck like the KDC-x693 would nab you a custom EQ, time correction, DSP enhancement for lossy sources like mp3, USB and aux input and controls for satellite/HD radio and bluetooth should you choose to add them later. The x693 is what I run personally and I'll run it until it dies.

They can be found on ebay for under $100, or you can go with the x993 for bluetooth out of the box. The newer models are the KDC-x695 and x995 and can be had for about $50 more each over the comparable earlier models.

Go forth young man and find a deck with EQ and time correction, you will not be disappointed!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks to everyone for their help!

Has anyone else used the Cadence 6.5" 4ohm?
1. Will a 4 ohm sub work with my A/D/S PQ10?
2. Will that Amp (4X40) be enough to power the front speakers and the sub?

I think I'm going to go with those PPI Art A2.65c Components. Anyone know where I can get them for 60$?? I'm only seeing them around 100. I would buy them in an instant if I could get them for that.

I'm going to end up completely ripping the stock sub box apart, applying deadening, sealing it up tight, closing the back port, and making it tight as air tight the Space station

I hear you, Rob and CoffeeDragon, about the deck and deadening. I'm trying to keep my costs low, so honestly I will probably just do some on the doors and tailgate. As for the deck, I'm going to try and stick with the stock HU. I like the look of it and that I only need three buttons to do everything I need to. I know the power sucks, but I'm trying to slightly supplement that with an Amp. I also like the fact that everything is stock and that lowers my chance of a break in. Last car had two HU's taken from it, so I'm big on stock.

Thanks for the advice and keep it coming!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,515 Posts
Look at ebay item number 180902937727 those are a lower RMS version.

I have no clue about the amp your asking but maybe Audiophyle will.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
565 Posts
If you do upgrade the HU, I second the recommendation for the Excelon line from Kenwood. I am on my third in about 7 years, currently have the KDC-X994. It can be used with the factory AUX input, has a rear USB input, iPod control, and can be wired up to use the factory steering wheel controls using the Axxess ASWC. You can customize the display colors as well. Makes for a very clean-looking install. Here's mine:

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=944408&postcount=54
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
685 Posts
Ejudge,

I know what you mean about keeping the stock HU, I had a 5 year old Pioneer stolen from my last car. The replacement door window cost more than it was worth.

I'm running a 4 channel JL XD400/4 (great tiny amp, btw) to the front doors and the sub right now, on the stock HU as well.

When I was initially doing my install, I was warned to watched out for the balanced signals that the stock HU puts out. I ended up getting that JL because it specifically says that it accepts balanced signals, I have no problem with the setup. I tapped into the signal between the HU and the stock amp and ran them to some a custom RCA cable made from Cat5 for the twisted pairs (figured it couldn't hurt). I know mike's mod called for an aftermarket HU, so this all wasn't an issue. I can't say I know anything about that ADS amp specifically though.

I'm still running the stock sub for now, haven't had the time to figure out what to do with it (or try to squeeze my JL 8W3 into it).

Link for info on keeping the stock HU:
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41017

Hope that helps a bit!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Guys, you make the EOC rock. Thanks for all of the advice. I'm so excited about my thought progress. Can't wait to get it to real world work.

I am planning on keeping the stock HU. I just like the generally stock look of my car, and really don't want to deal with the (small, I know) hassle of taking off a putting on a faceplate every time I park out in the wild.

EdwardChen, I'll keep an eye on balanced signals and such if I start to get noise.

Rob, if those will fit in the front and back, I'll buy two sets now. A killer deal for recommended speakers.

After I get the speakers in, I'll have to start working on the sub box. That should take some time in itself, as I'm traveling the next two weeks with work. I'll be updating here though!

What Ohm sub will I need with my amp? What's the difference between two and four ohm?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I ordered some CLD sound deadening tiles from Don at Sound Deadener Showdon. He was great, got right back to me about all the details I wanted. I ordered, and had them the next day. Around 50$ for 20 tiles.

Box Material property Rectangle Packaging and labeling


Transparency Paper Glass Metal


Architecture Cutlery Tableware



I borrowed a sound level meter from a friend to get some pre-tile readings. I want to see just how well these actually work, as well as the volume increase I get with my (slight) stereo upgrade.

Idle - 64db
65MPH - 86-87db
Stereo at Full Volume - 110db

It'll be interesting to see how everything comes out when I do my stereo and tiles in the coming weeks.

If anyone has advice on applying these, or how to best use 20, let me know!I was thinking using about 3 on the front doors (6), cut up one around each speaker (4), 2 on the back doors (4), 3 on the hatch (3) and 3 on the sub box (3).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I also ended up going with Alpine Type-S Speakers. I got them for around 30 and 40 respectively, and that was just too good of a deal to turn down. If they're awful or only last a little while, I can live until I replace them.

Auto part


So does anyone recommend an Ohm for the A/D/S PQ10 amp I have? I'm still trying to figure out if I need a 2 or 4 ohm.

Hope to start the install next week. I have a lot of driving to do the following weekend.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Change title?

If there are any Mods out there, is there any way I can change the title of this from Advice on my stereo install to "Basic Stereo Install Thread"?

Just want it to more accurately represent what is going on now. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Alright, so day 1 went well! I just wanted to basically deconstruct everything and look to make sure I was ready to install it. Here's what I found-

-I'm going to use my 20 CDL tiles for the front doors and sub mostly. Phase two of my stereo will be to do MLV on the front floor, CLD tiles on the rear door and Hatch, and building out a new sub. I'll do 7 on each door (4 on the outer-panel, 2 on the inner, and 1 around each speaker), and I'll save the last 6 for the sub and Phase two.

-I didn't order speaker harnesses, so I'm going to go get some from the local store tomorrow. Rookie mistake.

-I have no clue what I'm doing in running the Amp, but I'm going to do my best with the write up from Mike's Mod . My only concerns are with the power to the front speakers, and mounting the Amp.

-I'm nervous on fitting the amp straight to the body of the car, but we'll see what happens there. Any ideas are welcome.

-The crossovers on my Alpine Type-S Components look like just frequency blockers, and not that classy. Almost don't care because I got them so cheap.

-I'm having a blast learning new stuff

-I have no clue if this will work out, and have to drive about 16 hours this weekend. Necessity drives finding a solution if it doesn't work!

Here are some pics so far. Let me know if you have any advice!

Just Pulled in and ready to start.
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Honda element Automobile repair shop


The beginning of deconstruction.
Vehicle Car Motor vehicle Auto part Subcompact car


Table of tools. I'm a big fan of those plastic trim removal tools.
Workbench Table Vehicle Car Tool
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Battery Upgrades

I also decided to redo a bunch of the connections on my battery. Now that I'm going to have two 4 gauge wires running my Amp and Inverter, I decided to properly rerun the wires, fuses and add a battery terminal. Hopefully adding an Odyssey Battery soon.

So I'm going to add a
with a meter, and a
. I like these because they have the battery cable go in, and then two 8 gauge spots for my inverter and amp, and then a 4 gauge spot if I ever want to add anything better.

I'm also doing two
. I thought I would be able to fit them in smaller spots like I saw Rob Dobbs do, but these are much larger, and I'll have to mount them on the side behind the fuse box. So this should look good when I get done. Or at least I hope.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Pop goes the car

Got everything hooked up in my car today (new speakers, Amp, battery terminals)

Went to turn it on.

Turned the Key. Pop. Fizzle. Nothing.

Now I can't even get it to give me any sort of power.

Had the seats back in and hooked up. Checked the battery, 12V. Don't see any blown fuses from what I can tell. No clue what I've done here.

If anyone has any advice, I will send some awesome Karma your way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,515 Posts
Since ive no clue about hooking anything up to the stock deck I cant comment.

Did you run new speaker wire to everything?
Is the amp power on wire correctly run?
Is the amp getting power?
Do the speakers make any sort of noise, static, anything?
You said "pop", did you hear an actual pop?
Is everything grounded proper, meaning metal to metal?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,041 Posts
Yeah, your description is not very clear of whats wrong.
What is working, and what is not working?
Is everything original still working or are there other things not audio related that no longer work?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Ok, taking a deep breath.....

Hey guys, thanks for reaching out. I'll answer your questions and then update the status. Sorry for the lack of details last night, I was kind of in a panic.

New wires- Only to the front components
Amp Power on wire- Checked it at both ends, run fine
Amp power- It's getting power
Speaker noise- At first, no nothing
Pop- Oh, I heard a pop
Ground- Everything was grounded to the negative terminal.

What is working, and what is not working?
So, I wired everything up, put seats in and hooked them back up, turned the key, and not even a quarter second later, heard a pop and fizzle and everything cut out. No power at all to anything when I turned the key. Checked fuses and couldn't tell if my ignition fuse was out. then I started searching the internet.

I figured it had to be the fuse, so since it was late and no auto shops were open, I moved the ABS 30a fuse over to the battery to check. Did not turn it back on. I took everything off my battery terminals and just had the main battery cables coming off. At this point, my stereo would turn on (I have it on an auxiliary switch) and the rear speakers (not on amp) would play.

So then I added my positive and negative amp wires back to the battery. They then would power up the speakers (I still have to tune and check the phasing.) At this point, I felt a little better and went to bed.

I have not tried turning the car back on.

I'm about to go grab some 50a ignition fuses from the auto store, move the ABS fuse back, and try to turn it on, starting with just the battery, then the amp, then the power read out.


Original stuff still working?- Honestly, I'm not sure yet. I haven't tried to turn it on.


Back of Stereo
Electrical wiring Cable management Wire Electronics Technology


Battery terminal (Note- This is not when I had it all cleaned up with everything tied down and the negative power read out cord run to the negative terminal.)
Auto part Technology Electrical wiring Wire Vehicle



Thanks for everyone's help! I'm hoping to fix this before 2p today so I can get downtown for the Playoffs game, and drive to SC tomorrow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,041 Posts
That's better, but not by much.

So you popped the 50a ignition fuse under the hood?

What do you mean the stereo is on an auxiliary switch? How did you connect the radio to power through the switch? Is this switch a new addition along with the amps & such or had this been done & working previously? Does the switch allow you to turn on the radio without the key in the ignition?

So what you are saying is right now (w/ 30a fuse replacing ign fuse) you can toggle your aux switch and turn on the oem radio and all speakers will play including those connected to the amp. Is that right?

2 things come to mind on what could be wrong. Probably unlikely, but are you sure you have everything connected right at the battery? You did not accidentally connect a wire to the neg terminal that needed to be on the pos terminal?

Next, and most likely, is the aux switch. If turning the key on blew the fuse (& popping a 50a is a big deal) it tells me the issue is tied into the switched power system, which a switch to turn on the radio would affect. Your switch is connecting the constant power circuit to the switched power circuit, and sounds like its the only modification you've made to the switched power circuit. I would quadruple check that switch connection, because to pop a 50a fuse means a surge in excess of 50a was seen, which can easily overheat a 18~22awg oem wire and melt through its insulation (& create an even bigger problem). Im also curious to get an explicitly detailed explanation on how you wired that switch, because there are several methods of doing so correctly but are relatively complex, and if done wrong could do exactly what has happened here.

I cannot tell from the pics, but I hope all of those power wires from the battery have fuses very close to that battery connection. If not that is a fire just waiting to happen.
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top