Honda Element Owners Club banner

Aftermarket Exhaust Manifold - Thoughts & Recommendations

1496 Views 35 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  ktemkin
Hi all. Due to a recent loss of the catalytic converter, I got under there and found that I needed the entire exhaust system. The Walker system which replaced the original converter and resonator/muffler assembly was a mess and heavily rusted. So, I have the entire system out and ready to be replaced with a stainless steel setup. However, the exhaust manifold stay bracket bolts and the lower exhaust manifold shield bolt are not that healthy. I tried to remove them with my induction heater that I used on the rest of the bolts and it was a no go. They are locked in there. So, before I go any further, I would like any thoughts and comments on an aftermarket exhaust manifold I found on ebay. I am thinking about this if I cause any issues while removing these bolts. It looks like I could drill out the exhaust stay bracket bolts and use bolts and nuts afterwards, but there is limited space to get to the exhaust heat shield lower bolt.

Bicycle part Font Tool Auto part Bicycle drivetrain part

Here is a link to the listing.


Does anyone have experience with aftermarket exhaust manifolds? Am I asking for trouble even considering this one? Thoughts/comments/advice/guidance/experience would be much appreciated. Thank you.
See less See more
21 - 36 of 36 Posts
All of my "fleet" of four drivable cars are between 17 and 19 years old and, being in Chicago, all are quite rotted. I maintain them well mechanically, but they are all disappearing into iron oxide. As such I do not care about OEM stuff for them and I'll drive them until I can't anymore.

Because the Element is so unique and in relatively good shape, I've been trying to baby it, so it enjoys the only garage spot I have and I mostly purchase OEM parts for it. Buying OEM hardware is a bit ridiculous, but what the hell. I don't remember what the marking on the bolts were.
Also, did you reassemble the fastening hardware using high temperature anti-seize? If so, did you use the nickel based, copper based, or aluminum based version? I am particularly concerned with the converter flange bolts and the exhaust stay bracket bolts.
The band clamp is an interesting idea. I don’t know how long it will hold up to the heat before it starts to oxidize. That is probably the hottest part of the entire car so it will depend on the quality of the band clamp steel.

Anyone have thoughts on coating that with a high temp primer on the inside and primer/paint on the outside? I’ve welded my aluminized muffler and you must coat the welds or it will rust in a few weeks. I use high temp primer and it lasts a couple years before it rusts through and I have to weld it again.
The band clamp is an interesting idea. I don’t know how long it will hold up to the heat before it starts to oxidize. That is probably the hottest part of the entire car so it will depend on the quality of the band clamp steel.

Anyone have thoughts on coating that with a high temp primer on the inside and primer/paint on the outside? I’ve welded my aluminized muffler and you must coat the welds or it will rust in a few weeks. I use high temp primer and it lasts a couple years before it rusts through and I have to weld it again.
A band clamp is made of stainless steel and should last as long as the car if you buy a good quality one.
So you’ve never seen a rusty stainless steel band clamp? And have you ever seen one that spends its life at 500F?

Just because it‘s stainless steel does not mean it will last forever. If…IF…it’s a high quality band clamp, it might last. Most band clamps people will buy from the auto parts stores are not high quality.
shdrazba, overlooked your question about the type of antiseize compound to use. Have used the copper stuff for years but when I ran out of that a few years ago switched to the nickel stuff. I have not detected that the nickel stuff is any better.

shdrazba, also, how long is the hose clamp you used? I took a better look at the bottom bolt area of my exhaust manifold and it appear a previous repair simply ripped the whole female threaded plate from the exhaust manifold, so I'm going to have to use your hose clamp repair method.

Finally, for anyone who can answer this, how does the heat shield install: from above (in the engine compartment) or below (from underneath the car)?

From above I've been trying to manipulate the shield for about a half-hour and I can't see how it would drop down over the manifold. There's a firewall heat shield, brackets and a bunch of piping that are preventing maneuvering the manifold shield into place. Am I missing something about dropping the heat shield in from above?

I'm reticent to approach from the bottom as that means removing my catalytic converter protection installation and the cat itself. Not that it is difficult, and if I have to, so be it, but it just makes the project more involved than I planned.
See less See more
Hi ktemkin,

Thanks for the information, specifically on the anti-seize. As for the hose clamp, in the fully open position (the band just passed through the tensioner screw, it measured 7 inches in diameter). It is a fully stainless steel clamp. I believe I got it either at Lowes or Home Depot. When I am done with this post, I will go and check my stock and post details. I did put a bend in the clamp (in the left side of the picture as it wraps around the heat shield) so it would keep my tensioning screw in the same position as I tightened the clamp.

Welp, after laying under there all day, I was finally able to get the lower heat shield bolt out with an 11 mm nut extractor socket. Then I cut a M8-1.25 X 25 mm long bolt (strength rating 10.9) and used a 3/16 X 1-1/4 stainless steel washer drilled out to 5/16 inch to recompress what is left of the metal grommet. This is what it looks like now. I had to quit because it started raining plus my neck and back are killing me.

Automotive fuel system Motor vehicle Automotive tire Automotive design Rim


I want to thank you for posting the details surrounding the heat shield "grommet" construction. This is what helped me break it free. The outer metal side of the grommet had fused to the bolt so when I tried to turn it I was fighting it plus the drag of the threads. I took a long thin screwdriver and ground the end into a flat point. I laid under there and drove it between the outer metal edge of the grommet and the bolt. Then I used the induction heater and then the nut extractor.

I do not remember who suggested using and induction heater, but without one I would have snapped several bolts for sure.

Thanks again.
See less See more
I just noticed this but you can see in my previously posted picture the words "ALL STAINLESS" on the clamp tensioner housing.
Are you worried about accessing the exhaust manifold stay bracket bolts with an impact gun?
William,

Yes, I was very worried about using an impact gun on the stay bracket retaining bolts. First of all, the heads were very worn and I was not sure that even a nut extractor socket would hold. Second, I was not able to get a straight, square, even shot on the bolt heads. Third, I do not have a welder on hand to weld nuts to the remaining bolt heads. Fourth, I had visions of laying under there trying to drill out the old bolts.
Are you worried about accessing the exhaust manifold stay bracket bolts with an impact gun?
The left-hand exhaust manifold stay bracket bolt is a straight shot with a socket and extension, but the right-hand bolt is not. It almost looks like you can break the right-hand bolt free without a universal joint, but if you do, and if you use a strong impact gun, you will likely round off the bolt head.

When I had to remove my catalytic converter, that right-hand bolt was already rounded off by a previous repair, so I had to resort to welding a nut onto the remaining head of the bolt to get a new "head" on the bolt.

So, always make sure you have good "purchase" on the head of that bolt before using an impact gun.
…or…try your darndest to NOT use an impact wrench on an old rusty bolt. I think the induction heater and manual action is the best you can do for these bolts, as the heat and time weaken both the head and the stem.
Hi ktemkin, pihmpdaddi:

I fitted up my exhaust system kit today, ran into a few issues, and sure could use some help/advice from you both. At the converter entrance/manifold exit, I am using new Honda bolts, springs, and donut. At the resonator inlet, I attempted to use the bolts that came with the kit, but had problems with them and do not like them.

Font Household hardware Fastener Nut Titanium


I had issues compressing them enough to get the nuts on and they also are of such a diameter that they do not allow the converter outlet/resonator inlet to float with respect to one another (due to the large diameter as compared to the Honda hardware). Note that the holes are not exactly on center with one another (flanges slightly rotated with respect to one another). So I ended up fitting this joint with an older pair of Honda bolts and springs. I used the cheap nuts from the kit for now, but I want to get some heavy hex flanged nuts from Advance Auto.

Automotive exhaust Automotive tire Rim Gas Vehicle



Also, it looks like the gasket donut may be too thick. I have not fully drawn up the bolts, but it looks like the springs will be fully compressed by the time I do. So what did you guys do at this joint for fastening hardware? What brand and part number donut did you use? How did yours look when you were done? I used the aftermarket donut that came with the kit, but I do have Beck/Arnley smaller donut 0396682 which I have not tried yet.

Vehicle Motor vehicle Gas Automotive exhaust Automotive exterior


Thank you.
See less See more
3
Pretty sure there is two different kits for the manifold-to-cat vs the manifold-to-muffler joints. If you look up the Honda parts list online, or the Walker catalog (or other suppliers), it will list two different donuts and two different sets of bolts for the whole exhaust system. I don’t know the numbers off hand but you should be able to research it.

I would get the OEM bolts if possible, they will last a lot longer. The walker ones might be okay. Anything you get from the retail auto parts stores will probably not last very long. A Grade 8 nut might last a while…but if you’re re-doing everything right, I would spend the extra and get the OEM bolts from a Honda dealer. You can buy them from the online Honda stores.
Welp. after studying it for a while, I had to conclude that the aftermarket exhaust donut was too big, thus chewing up some of the room for the spring compression at the converter/resonator joint. So I finally got the Honda donut and this was the case (see photo).



The aftermarket donut is on the left and the Honda OEM on the right. The aftermarket was larger in outer diameter and thickness, So, after installing the Honda donut, this is what it now looks like.



Rather than protruding from the joint, the Honda donut was flush with the top of the taper and the spring bolts could be installed without full compression of the springs.
See less See more
2
  • Like
Reactions: 1
21 - 36 of 36 Posts
Top