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Discussion Starter #1
I currently have amsoil atf in my E and ive done two drain and fills with it. I like the wy it shifts much better than with z1 but when I drained the amsoil for the first drain and fill there was a lot more residue than normal on the magnant. I was going to do one more drain and fill with amsoil but if I drain it this time and there is a lot of debris on the magnant I might seitch brands. I'm not sure if it was dirtly just because it was cleaning out the stuff that z1 couldent or if it a sign of accelerated wear. If I see a lot this time then I guess it means accelerated wear. I was thinking about maybe switching to castrol import or back to z1. So has anyone ever used the castrol??
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Well I figured I wouldent get an answer but I've been thinking about it a long time so I just did two drain and fills with castrol import. I wanted to try it out because it has a high flash point, low pour point, high viscosity index and its one of the few atf's out there that meet or exceed the JASO-1A standard. I havent driven it much just a few times around my neighborhood in between drain and fills but it seems to shif very smooth. It shifts a lot like z1 actually and at $4.52 a quart at walmart I think its a great replacement but time will tell. I'll drive it more tonight and I'll tell you guys how it goes.
 

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Have pondered using this several times but I always talk my local honda dealer down to $4.80 a quart for Z1 so I figured I would not take a chance. Honda's are freaky in the fact they require high friction modifiers in the ATF and this is something that no one can give a definitive answer on when calling Castrol. While I probably will never switch to Castrol I would be all ears to hear how the tranny performs over the next three months.

Keep us updated :)
 

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Yup.

Honda plays by different rules than the rest when it comes to fluids. They engineer base/additive combinations for specific friction and temperature gradient coefficients that are not typically duplicated in aftermarket products designed for wide-spectrum applications. It's a "live-with" annoyance that you have to be aware of when you go to drink the Honda Kool-aid.

The trouble is that people use the aftermarket fluids in critical, low-tolerance applications like the A/T and then have problems 30, 40, 50 K-miles down the line, long after any association with the change can be easily made. This often occurs after they've sold the vehicle, in which case they have no clue at all.

Anyway, that "shifts much better" today is telling you that the friction constant has materially changed, and that change in friction constant might very well be your indication that the shaft clutches have been consigned to an early grave.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
What I did was use z1 for the first change then used amsoil atf. The amsoil made it shif a little better but the thing I really liked is that it dident crash when I shifted from park into reverse or drive. I did notice a little more iron gunk on the drain plug magnant when I did my second change of amsoil atf just after a few thousand miles. When I went to change this time I drained the atf before I bought the new atf. I wanted to see if there would be less iron gunk then last time. It was the same as the last time so this timeI did two drain and fills with the castrol import. For what its worth with the amsoil I did talk to an amsoil rep who said that the extra stuff on the magnant was gear pack particles that were probably being cleaned out instead of left behind with the z1. I have drove 120 miles so far on two changes of castrol import and it is by far better than z1 or amsoil IMO. The tranny is silky or as silky as the elements tranny could be. I have no worries with this atf being compatible with z1 because of the JASO-1A standard being met and also it only claimes to be a good replacement for a few import brands as opposed to almost every atf in the world like amsoil. I'm driveing the E to idaho this weekend then next week I'll do the last drain and fill of the castrol import. I'll let you guys know how it does and how much stuff is on the drain magnant.
 

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I would have to agree with mikeqbf on this one. I was always told a firm more defined shift is far superior to the life of a tranny then one which is smooth and less defined much akin to drop clutch driving vs slow throw, its not as pleasant but the longevity is there. I don't see much benefit in running a fluid which is nearly the same price as the OEM, all though I would am curoius about the long term effects. Trans fluid has been through the history of cars one of the few fluids were a universal usage like motor oil has not been the answer, but brand and type specific.

Chris
 

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Yup.

Honda plays by different rules than the rest when it comes to fluids. They engineer base/additive combinations for specific friction and temperature gradient coefficients that are not typically duplicated in aftermarket products designed for wide-spectrum applications. It's a "live-with" annoyance that you have to be aware of when you go to drink the Honda Kool-aid.

The trouble is that people use the aftermarket fluids in critical, low-tolerance applications like the A/T and then have problems 30, 40, 50 K-miles down the line, long after any association with the change can be easily made. This often occurs after they've sold the vehicle, in which case they have no clue at all.

Anyway, that "shifts much better" today is telling you that the friction constant has materially changed, and that change in friction constant might very well be your indication that the shaft clutches have been consigned to an early grave.

As usual Mike nailed it ! Stay with the Honda branded fluids!

I also have seen the failures, that can and do occur to Honda's, because of improper fluids usage. It has showed up in the rear differential fluid change in CRV's several times. People just go to Jiffy lube or a local gas station to have the fluid changed. Then several weeks/months after the change, Failure !

When Honda finds the wrong fluid in the rear end, The cost gets higher!

Dom
 

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Discussion Starter #8
well I'm back from Idaho and the trans is shifting great! I really like it better than the amsoil or the z1. I also was able to test out how it does in cold weather because it got down to 15F where I was and it still was smooth. As far as haveing firm shifts z1 dosent give you firm shifts and neither does the castrol they both give you smooth shifts. The amsoil gave quicker firmer shifts if thats what your looking for. z1 is nothing special or a "magical" honda fluid although honda claimes all their fluids to be magical. z1 is basicly dexIII with friction modifiers. It also oxidizes and shears very quickly. I know lots of peole who have used aftermarket atf in hondas for many miles and they are just fine. With the dual pump fluid you should only use that because there is no aftermarket fluid for that. Any atf that specs for replacement of z1 is fine and wont ruin your car, just some are better than others.
 

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Glad to hear it's doing good for you. If you don't mind please keep us updated ;).
 

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Well its been a few thousand miles and the castrol import is still working great! I think I'm going to stick with this for the long haul. I have enough to do one more drain and fill but I dident do it on my last oil change because its already shifting so good that I think I'll wait a while longer or for a day that I'm really bored. For those of you who think that there is no aftermarket ATF for honda here is a pic of the bottle. Notice the large letters that say its for HONDA!
 

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Yup.

Honda plays by different rules than the rest when it comes to fluids. They engineer base/additive combinations for specific friction and temperature gradient coefficients that are not typically duplicated in aftermarket products designed for wide-spectrum applications. It's a "live-with" annoyance that you have to be aware of when you go to drink the Honda Kool-aid.

The trouble is that people use the aftermarket fluids in critical, low-tolerance applications like the A/T and then have problems 30, 40, 50 K-miles down the line, long after any association with the change can be easily made. This often occurs after they've sold the vehicle, in which case they have no clue at all.

Anyway, that "shifts much better" today is telling you that the friction constant has materially changed, and that change in friction constant might very well be your indication that the shaft clutches have been consigned to an early grave.
I concur with Mike. I just do not want to take a chance of ruining my transmission simply because someone else "claims" their product is just as good. I put my faith and trust in the Honda engineers and I will continue to use the recommended ATF. Besides that I do not have a few thousand bucks laying around to replace my transmission. It will be interesting to see what the long term effects will be on Rylands transmission.
 

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I've always liked and used and trusted Castrol products. I've used them for many years, for many miles, in many vehicles. At this point, I'm gonna stick with Honda ATF-Z1...I don't imagine the Castrol Import would be that much better to be worth the risk.

Thanks for the info anyway....and keep us updated. :)
 

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castrol ATF

I use the Castrol import ATF in my wifes hyundai XG350. It workes very well in fact iv used it in her car for the life of the trany 80200 milles and its great.Its also the exact same fluid my or the Hyundai dealers put in Hyundai trany ,They use Castrol oil to, I will NOT use it in my Honda I only use Honda fluids for me Element, Just my thought..But it is good fluid non the less..
 

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so does honda disaprove the castrol fluid??? it's been a few years since I have run a service dept at a major new vehicle dealership .but there were no problems when using aftermarket fluids as far as the warranty goes .the manufacture could not specify any piticular fluid unless they were giving it to you free of charge (this was a federal law if I remember correctly) with that said we did replace more engines that the coustomer was using wally world brand oil. and the manufacture had to honner the warranty even tho it had been established that oil was killing the engines.I think one coustomer went through 4 engines all warranteed.after the last one he quit useing the waly world oil.
I used the castrol to flush my trans, then the z1. but next time probly just the castrol due to the rip off honda dealer prices. unless I need to get some more parts from handa like last time.

I did use dexron III in my montarow, and after about 3000 miles it started slipping the converter clutches & shuddering badly,I then did some reserch and nobody made a direct replacement fluid.so $9.00 a qt later X20 problem solved and traded it in 35000+ miles later with out any more problems.I wonder if it uses the same fluid as my E.??? the both have that funny smell and are the same color.hmm ponder time I still have a few qt left.and it apparently has more friction modifires to keep the clutches from slipping.
type f had more friction & dexron had more lubricity. so lower pump pressure & high friction to the clutches = less power to run the trans =more mpg. somebody was thinken. I wonder how B&M trick shift will work in my E???(other than the leaks, that stuff leaks like a fighter plane)
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Its not that Honda disaproves of castrol its that they say to only use Honda atf and actually to only use Honda everything. I dont know what all that other stuff is that your talking about but I would only use a fluid that says that it meets the Honda spec. As far as walmart oil goes I dont know where you worked but you can use the Walmart supertech 5w20 or 5w30 oil and it would meet the honda spec. Its a GF4 SM oil that is API certified. You can use any oil that meets those specs and that is within the correct viscosity grade and it will not kill your motor!

Im not buying that some guy went through 4 engines because of walmart oil. Im not even buying that a guy went through 1 engine because of walmart oil! Unless he had some sort of turbo diesel or something and was useing a gasoline engine oil, but in that case it would not be covered.
 

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When it comes to engine oil I will use whatever but for things like the tranny and rear end, I use honda specific stuff only. My brother put some ATF in his Accord that supposedly met the Honda specs and within 150 miles his tranny wasn't shifting normally and he wound up replacing it. The car had 80000 miles on it and was babied it's entire life, he just took a short cut this one time on tranny fluid and paid for it. Its not worth whatever money you'll save, just ante up.

BTW, Valvoline makes the walmart oil brand so it's not bad oil.
 

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Its not that Honda disaproves of castrol its that they say to only use Honda atf and actually to only use Honda everything. I dont know what all that other stuff is that your talking about but I would only use a fluid that says that it meets the Honda spec. As far as walmart oil goes I dont know where you worked but you can use the Walmart supertech 5w20 or 5w30 oil and it would meet the honda spec. Its a GF4 SM oil that is API certified. You can use any oil that meets those specs and that is within the correct viscosity grade and it will not kill your motor!

Im not buying that some guy went through 4 engines because of walmart oil. Im not even buying that a guy went through 1 engine because of walmart oil! Unless he had some sort of turbo diesel or something and was useing a gasoline engine oil, but in that case it would not be covered.
yes it did hapen. the moter's were outbord marine v6 engines.the oil is made to meet the fed specs NOT the manufacture specs,the oil was junk.the oil was not made to address that engines problem area. merc had thier owen oil that was forumulated for thier problems,yamaha had thier oil made to address the problems that they were having,omc had thier oil made to address the gaulding of the piston & sticking rings,yamaha had a problem with wrist pins,and so on . all of the oil was made by citgo for the big 3 and fortified with the correct additive for that manufacture problem.if you used thier oil you did not have any problem.but every engine that I tore down that was useing the wallyworld oil did. and this was a wide sperad problem back in the 90's. so just because it is certified dosent mean squat .like my honda was certified by honda.but honda refuzes to honner thier warranty.if you certify a turd what do you have ???? a turd. and yes I have a wall of certificates . they realy dont mean squat. I was in schools with some of the dumbest humans that ever attemped to walk this earth.and yes they got well most of them that got thier name spelled correctly also got certificates.but that dosent mean I want them to put air in my tires. bugger and bubba got them a certificate so now they can roll parts in the dirt before they assemble that moter they are rebuilding with window sealent,plires and a hammer. but I guess thats job security for some
 

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...yes I have a wall of certificates . they realy dont mean squat. I was in schools with some of the dumbest humans that ever attemped to walk this earth.and yes they got well most of them that got thier name spelled correctly also got certificates.but that dosent mean I want them to put air in my tires. bugger and bubba got them a certificate so now they can roll parts in the dirt before they assemble that moter they are rebuilding with window sealent,plires and a hammer. but I guess thats job security for some
:lol::lol::lol::evil:

Been there, done that. Most of the schools I went to had entrance and exit exams (to see how much knowledge you gained for the money the company spent). One guy scored 10% lower on exit than he did on (the exact same questions) the entrance exam.:twisted::shock: Guess he got stupider over the course of the week.:roll:

Literally saw freshly cleaned and packed wheel bearings set on the shop floor in a pile of kitty litter type floor cleaner prior to installation.
 
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