[zeb]

Hi, my oil light and b1 indicator light went on. My 08 element has approx. 10,000 miles on it. The honda dealership changed the oil and said they could do the b1 service for $210.00 + tax . I was wondering if anyone else did the b1 service at 10,000 miles and is it worth doing and what do they actually do ? They told me they change the cabin filter, rotate tires, add some kind of fluid cleaner and mostly just do some inspecting. Thanks

 

[breese524]

See your owners manual probably around pg 185: http://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/pubs/OM/CW0707/CW0707O00184A.pdf

The inspection should be free with service. I've paid about $50 at the dealer for an oil change and tire rotation before but, now I just do that myself. The inspecting is mostly visual anyways.

So what extra stuff are they doing for the extra $150?

BTW An A service is just an oil change. I always do the B service even if it says A.

 

[MotoChef]

I just had mine done in July. I have 12000 on the truck. I was $130 for the service. My dealer is Lisle Auto Plaza in Lisle IL.

This is what they had on the invoice:

Oil change
Brake inspection Pad & Shoes they have how much (%) I have left on my brake pads
Inspect Hoses & lines
Inspect Drive shaft boots and joints
Fluids
Exhaust check
Check Suspension
tire wear
multi point inspection
rotate tires ( I took a pen and marked my rims on the back to see if they get to the front! They did!)
battery load test
car wash
A ride to my house and they picked me up when the truck was ready.(They were busy that day)

I used my 15% off coupon and it cost me $106.01 out the door. Ask them for a print out with the breakdown of the service and the cost. I think there padding the invoice. I don't think the cabin filter is in the B1 service. Do the filter yourself and ask them how much that will save. I haven't change mine. I don't think it needs it yet. What is the fluid cleaner for? If its the engine you don't need it. I would bust their chops about the cost and tell them about Lisle!

I'm in the suburbs of Chicago and if they don't get you to about $150 out the door I would ask for the manager give him the chance to keep your business and tell him that your doing so! If he won't do it! Find another dealer and let the manager know that your calling Honda about this invoice padding and before you leave ask him "What was your name again?" ask him for a pen and paper and write it down in front of him. ;-) You may get the filter and the cleaner for free before you get the pen & paper!

If they suggestive sell the filter and the cleaner thats different you can say no. If they say that is included I would say there padding the invoice. Call em on it! ( I can be a pain in the a** sometimes but that comes from places trying to screw me!) Call Lisle and ask them about the B1 service.
Service:
877-723-8282

 

[breese524]

Yet another reason not to live in Chicago... They wanted 150 to look at somethings on the car, change the oil and filter, rotate the tires and give you a car wash. Based on local pricing I hope that was one really awesome car wash b/c the last time I was in a dealer for this service, the inspection was free.

Once you are out of the warranty time frame, you might want to watch out. If they tell you that your muffler bearing is loose, I'd run and fast.

 

[zeb]

Thank you all for the response. I just had them do the oil change & rotate the tires for now. The price did seem insane, but then again, I'm in Ct. everything is so expensive here! I'll probably wait and see what they want to do at 15,000 miles.

 

[MotoChef]

Yet another reason not to live in Chicago... They wanted 150 to look at somethings on the car, change the oil and filter, rotate the tires and give you a car wash. Based on local pricing I hope that was one really awesome car wash b/c the last time I was in a dealer for this service, the inspection was free.

Once you are out of the warranty time frame, you might want to watch out. If they tell you that your muffler bearing is loose, I'd run and fast.

What is the cost at your dealer for a B1 service in FL?

Chicagoland area is one of the best places in the country. At least west of the city. Daley is nuts!!

 

[94eg]

Thank you all for the response. I just had them do the oil change & rotate the tires for now. The price did seem insane, but then again, I'm in Ct. everything is so expensive here! I'll probably wait and see what they want to do at 15,000 miles.

If you ever want to know what needs to be done, just lookup those maintenece codes in your owner's manual (or the link breese524 posted). It tells you exactly what is required at that time. This way you don't pay for anything you don't need.

The Element is very low maintenece. Apart from changing fluids, filters and rotating tires, there really is nothing to do but keep it clean. All of this stuff is very easy to do at home w/ typical tools (and the how-to help of people here), and it will save hundreds, if not thousands of dollars.

IMO Dealers are for warranty work and that's about it...

 

[breese524]

What is the cost at your dealer for a B1 service in FL?

Last time I had the dealer do an oil change and tire rotation, it was $47.01, that was about 2 years ago. The last time I did it, last Saturday, it was cost of parts

 

[MotoChef]

oil change and tire rotation, it was $47.01

That's all they did? Sounds like you got what you paid for! Defiantly not B1 service..
:lol:

 

[94eg]

That's all they did? Sounds like you got what you paid for! Defiantly not B1 service..
:lol:

When you get a B1 service, that is the only tangable work you are having done. Everything else is just inspections. And who knows if they even do them. I wouldn't trust ANY mechanic...

 

[in2steam]

I am sure several of the posters here are mechanics, I personally would not make such a blatant statement. Often line mechanics don't even touch vehicles which are getting LOF and rotate and balances. Typically they just come over and do the inspection, also I can pretty much guarantee they do it. Its how they make money, if they don't find something wrong they don't any make money other then the small amount of time they get paid to do the inspection. The inspections are not rocket science, but they do require the tools and experience to know were to look for problems.

Now that said, having worked a dealership for about a decade there are people whom I would not trust, and those are the people in the sales dept, particularly used.

Chris

 

[breese524]

When you get a B1 service, that is the only tangable work you are having done.

Typically they just come over and do the inspection, also I can pretty much guarantee they do it. Its how they make money, if they don't find something wrong they don't any make money other then the small amount of time they get paid to do the inspection.

Most dealers down here include the inspection whether you ask for it or not. The only inspection on the entire maintenance list that is more than visual is valve clearance. You won't be seeing that code until you have somewhere in the ball park of 100k miles.

You will find they are much more attentive to the inspection after your warrenty expires.

While there are mechanics on this forum, they know that the quality of the dealer mechanic has gone down hill lately. In an effort to make up for selling cars below cost (invoice) they have to make it up in service. This is achieved by hiring the guy who will work for the least amount of money. This is also why so many people on this board have had to tell the dealer mechanic how to fix their cars.

Also, due to the service department being treated as a profit center, I'd trust the service writer much less than any used car salesman. They are there to make their franchis money, not help you fix your car.

 

[Chasester]

While there are mechanics on this forum, they know that the quality of the dealer mechanic has gone down hill lately. In an effort to make up for selling cars below cost (invoice) they have to make it up in service. This is achieved by hiring the guy who will work for the least amount of money. This is also why so many people on this board have had to tell the dealer mechanic how to fix their cars.

Also, due to the service department being treated as a profit center, I'd trust the service writer much less than any used car salesman. They are there to make their franchis money, not help you fix your car.

I wouldn't agree with that statement, it's far too simplistic, and very over-reaching.

Sales and Service are treated as different entities. I can promise you that the mechanic in Service doesn't give a darn what Salesman Joe is selling. The Service Writer is definitely there to sell their product - but the mechanic is going to fit in as many jobs as they can in a given day / week, month.

The quality of the Mechanic has some to do with the given demand for mechanics in an area - but most mechanics these days are taught to diagnose and switch out components - not repair.

 

[MotoChef]

When you get a B1 service, that is the only tangable work you are having done. Everything else is just inspections. And who knows if they even do them. I wouldn't trust ANY mechanic...

Good luck with that then! I have been told that you need this or that fixed or change and I have asked to be shown. Prove it to me that the parts are bad! What ever you replace I want the old parts. For me its the clowns that work at the muffler shop places that really f*** you over. I have had them drop their price in half after I have told them no I taking my truck elsewhere for less cost.

 

[breese524]

Sales and Service are treated as different entities. I can promise you that the mechanic in Service doesn't give a darn what Salesman Joe is selling. The Service Writer is definitely there to sell their product - but the mechanic is going to fit in as many jobs as they can in a given day / week, month.

So explain how a dealership can consistently sell vehicles under invoice. They can't without making it up somewhere else. That somewhere else is the service department. The dealership is one entity, the owner wants profits, that comes from service.

You are right about one thing, the mechanic could care less about sales but, the mechanic doesn't talk with the customer, the service writer does. Keep in mind, if the dealer is not busy, the mechanic is going to be looking for jobs, so, anything that looks wrong is a major problem that needs to be fixed.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if some dealers gave their mechanics a bonus based on how much extra work could be written up. However, the big thing mechanics might receive a bonus for is CSI or customer satisfaction index. The more happy customers, the better their bonus.

I've said elsewhere, my dad has been a dealer mechanic since before I was born, at lot has changed since when he started. While I haven't followed in his footsteps, I know enough to not get screwed and have been told that even with no formal training (I never really took interest in the projects he brought home either) I'd do a better job than some of the recent hires at the place he works (not Honda and not the same city as me).

 

[Chasester]

So explain how a dealership can consistently sell vehicles under invoice. They can't without making it up somewhere else. That somewhere else is the service department. The dealership is one entity, the owner wants profits, that comes from service.

You are right about one thing, the mechanic could care less about sales but, the mechanic doesn't talk with the customer, the service writer does. Keep in mind, if the dealer is not busy, the mechanic is going to be looking for jobs, so, anything that looks wrong is a major problem that needs to be fixed.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if some dealers gave their mechanics a bonus based on how much extra work could be written up. However, the big thing mechanics might receive a bonus for is CSI or customer satisfaction index. The more happy customers, the better their bonus.

I've said elsewhere, my dad has been a dealer mechanic since before I was born, at lot has changed since when he started. While I haven't followed in his footsteps, I know enough to not get screwed and have been told that even with no formal training (I never really took interest in the projects he brought home either) I'd do a better job than some of the recent hires at the place he works (not Honda and not the same city as me).

I'm right about all of what I said. The Service Dept isn't as high of a profit center as Sales is. Anyway you want to look at it, the Mechanic doesn't give a rats behind about what the Sales person does - more often than not the two departments hate each other. Mechanics feel that Sales dept get all the good attention from the owner when they get all the negative attention as it's such tighter margins and often costs the Dealer a Presidential Award.

A car sale has 4 profit centers. 1) Down payment, 2) Trade, 3) Vehicle Profit 4) Finance.
Service has Labor as the single profit center.
Parts has markup as the single profit center.

I have never heard of a Dealership that gave bonus's to mechanics that found extra work. Any dealer that did would find themselves (quite quickly in Honda's case) on the bad side of the Manufacturer.

Service satisfaction scale may net the mechanic or sales person a couple hundred a month in a bonus if their overall score for the given month is above whatever line the Dealer picks - (for instance above district). No dealer could survive on giving much of a bigger bonus than that.

No Dealer will survive for long when they have to rely on the Service dept alone to make up for overall negative profit margins on a per-car basis.

 

[mkh]

I have never heard of a Dealership that gave bonus's to mechanics that found extra work. Any dealer that did would find themselves (quite quickly in Honda's case) on the bad side of the Manufacturer. ...

No Dealer will survive for long when they have to rely on the Service dept alone to make up for overall negative profit margins on a per-car basis.

You have a misconception on how a Dealership service dept. is run. Most Dealership mechanics are pretty much independent contractors. They don’t get paid a salary. They get a percentage of the labor charge on service orders they complete. The more service orders they do, the more they make. That’s why you will seldom find a Dealership mechanic willing to spend a lot of time trying to diagnose an unknown “noise/issue”, or test-drive the vehicle for 20 minutes to see if all is well after the repair. For them, time is money. So yes, Dealerships do give bonus’s to mechanics who find extra work, kind of. More service orders, more labor charge, more money in the mechanic’s pocket.

Service Departments are about 10% of Dealership gross “sales”, but generate about 40% of a Dealerships net profits - so are almost half of a Dealership's return on investment. Finance & Insurance contributes another 40% net profit. New Car Sales contributs only 10% profit, with used car sales contributing another 10% net profits.

 

[in2steam]

I am sure some things have changed in the few years I haven been away from dealerships, but I can say for certain that very very few dealers survive by the sales of new cars. They don't sell anything below what they paid for it ever, they may receive incentives to get ride of old stock on the lot but never less then they have into it. Selling below "invoice" is a con, they never will tell you what they paid.
As for the back end of a shop the parts department almost always pays the bills for the dealership, I worked at 3 different dealerships and that was always the case. The profit center was service and used car sales, best incentives for sales people were on used cars, and the techs, and service writers got there money from service work. Not as much from warranty but a majority of the work done is warranty typically it pays half the rate that book would quote out to charge a customer. Most line techs are flat rate, parts people are commission&hourly pay, writers and managers are paid off several factors mainly based on what that particular dealership chooses to do. While i worked through several dry times during the years were we would sell maybe 10 cars in a month that would not even pay for the office staff and sales peoples salaries for the month. Best margin I can remeber was around 17% profit for a month but it was more typically around 5-7% and some times there were no commission checks( i worked in parts).
As for a mechanic getting bonus that did not happen to often only when they found things wrong and managed to sell them.
Chris

 

[jazzy007]

Just did my "B1" service at dealer at around 12500 miles. Actually I choose to just do a oil change for $36.82 included parts, hour, misc charge, & tax. I walk in & asked for oil change, they did not even recommend any "B1" service after seen B1 lights up on the minder.

Below is in the report included in the oil change at dealer. Personally, I really don't think there is any additional need to perform "B1" service. I know list below is part of generic check list for oil change, but IMHO, if they are not doing a good job inspect for oil change, how do I know they will be doing a good job inspect for "B1" service, which I have to pay more just for inspection?

By the way, this oil change in this dealer take approx. 1 hour in the shop.

- Oil & oil filter change.
- Inspect/measure all 4 tires tread depth & reports each tire's remaining depth.
- Check & set tire pressure.
- Inspect front axle CV joints and boots
- Check front differential for leaks
- Check power steering system for leaks
- Check automatic transmission for leaks
- Inspect cooling system hoses
- Check engine oil level/condition (I guess after they change oil?)
- Check automatic transmission fluid level and condition
- Inspect rear axle CV joints and boots
- Check rear axle seals for leaks
- Inspect battery terminals/cables
- Inspect heater hoses
- Check engine coolant level/condition
- Inspect windshield wiper blades
- Check front axle seals for leaks
- Check rear differential for leaks
- Check cooling system for leaks
- Inspect accessory drive belts
- Check power steering fluid level/condition
- Check hazard light operation
- Check brake light operation
- Inspect SRS diagnostic system (SRS warning light)
- Check windshield washer fluid level/condition
- Check tie-rod ends
- Inspect front shocks and struts; check operation
- Inspect automatic transmission mounts for damages
- Inspect overall condition (all tires)
- Check back-up light operation
- Inspect onboard diagnostic system (check engine light)
- Check headlight and bright beam
- Check front sway-bar links and bushings
- Inspect rear shocks and struts; check operation
- Battery test results
- Check taillight, turn signal, side marker, and license plate lights
- Inspect u-joints and driveline slip-joints
- Inspect rear wiper blades
- Check rear sway-bar links and bushings
- Inspect engine mounts
- Visual brake check through wheels

 

[Chasester]

You have a misconception on how a Dealership service dept. is run. Most Dealership mechanics are pretty much independent contractors. They don’t get paid a salary. They get a percentage of the labor charge on service orders they complete. The more service orders they do, the more they make. That’s why you will seldom find a Dealership mechanic willing to spend a lot of time trying to diagnose an unknown “noise/issue”, or test-drive the vehicle for 20 minutes to see if all is well after the repair. For them, time is money. So yes, Dealerships do give bonus’s to mechanics who find extra work, kind of. More service orders, more labor charge, more money in the mechanic’s pocket.

I'm quite aware on how Dealership Service Dept is run. I would not consider being paid the hourly rate for a job as a "bonus" That's a play on words. No dealership would survive for long inventing things to repair.

Actually In2Steam, we used to sell a lot of vehicles below invoice. I've seen the finance screen at the end of the deal. They'd hope to make it up with the trade sale. Or at worse - took a deal from the competition.