Brake bleed, anyone?

33300 Views 46 Replies 23 Participants Last post by Jersey Steve, Apr 9, 2012

ShaneS

Discussion Starter · Sep 18, 2005 (Edited)

I have heard that it is reccomended to change out the brake fluid every 2 years regardless of milage because of moisture that can corrode the system especially ABS braking systems. I heard 2 ways people do it, bleeding the system to get rid of the old or just using a turkey baster type thing to just take out what is visible in the master cylinder. I did the second choice for now, mine was almost black in color and I just replaced it with some new DOT3 fluid, I figure that the old will eventually mix with the new in the lines, so in a few weeks, I will just suck it out again and replace when it looks like it is dirty again.
Has anyone done this Or should I spend the $$$ to have the system blead?

1 - 20 of 47 Posts

fishlee

· #2 · Sep 18, 2005

Re: Brake fluid change anyone?

Pay the money and bleed the system, water is though out the brake lines. Bleeding is the only way to go.
Some classic car restorer's use silicone fluid, but you have to start with a clean system. it doesn't suck water up , but it cost a lot.

MikeQBF

· #3 · Sep 18, 2005

Re: Brake fluid change anyone?

Six of one, half-dozen of another. I have a suction tool (bought at car parts store) to do the "suck the reservoir" trick, but I do it every year since it's not a complete change. I also have a couple of auto-bleeders in case I feel like a full change is due.

>... I just replaced it with some new DOT3 fluid...

Not to scare you, but that might have just been a bad thing. Honda is peculiar about some of their fluids, and I think the brake fluid is one of 'em. They use different seal chemistries than the rest of the world. Your brakes aren't going to fold up tomorrow, but using standard fluid tends to shorten their lives. Get some Honda-compatible fluid in there when you get a chance.

fishlee

· #4 · Sep 18, 2005

Re: Brake fluid change anyone?

I did a search on google " silicone brake fluid change", top result AAA." silicone cost 3 times as much, and should not be used on abs brakes"

G-force

· #5 · Sep 18, 2005

Re: Brake fluid change anyone?

I flush every 2 years in all of my cars. This product works wonders:
Motive Power Bleeder

Fill the power bleeder tank with fluid of choice (I prefer ATE super blue, easy to tell the old from new) Remove lid from your MS reservoir, tighten the lid from the power bleeder on the MS reservoir, pump to 15lbs pressure or whatever the manual says (different for different cars) Then go to each corner and install a drain tube to your bleeder valve and open, bleeding the old fluid into a proper receptacle. You should let it bleed until you see clean fluid and no bubbles. tighten it and move to the next corner.

Before I bought this tool I dreaded bleeding brake systems by myself. Now I actually enjoy it, it's so easy. :grin:

MikeQBF

· #6 · Sep 18, 2005

Re: Brake fluid change anyone?

fishlee said:
I did a search on google " silicone brake fluid change", top result AAA." silicone cost 3 times as much, and should not be used on abs brakes"

Yes, silicone - a/k/a "DOT4" - should not be poured into just any brake system. You have to do your homework and make sure the seals and hoses are compatible.

Sparman

· #7 · Sep 18, 2005

Re: Brake fluid change anyone?

G-force said:
I flush every 2 years in all of my cars. This product works wonders:
Motive Power Bleeder

Fill the power bleeder tank with fluid of choice (I prefer ATE super blue, easy to tell the old from new) Remove lid from your MS reservoir, tighten the lid from the power bleeder on the MS reservoir, pump to 15lbs pressure or whatever the manual says (different for different cars) Then go to each corner and install a drain tube to your bleeder valve and open, bleeding the old fluid into a proper receptacle. You should let it bleed until you see clean fluid and no bubbles. tighten it and move to the next corner.

Before I bought this tool I dreaded bleeding brake systems by myself. Now I actually enjoy it, it's so easy. :grin:

I love my motive bleeder also. It really is a great tool and I highly recommend it.

wingdr

· #8 · Sep 19, 2005 (Edited)

Re: Brake fluid change anyone?

Mike, silicone is DOT 5. I believe it is used in the new corvettes. Most new cars today use DOT 4. You can also use DOT5.1, which has the highest boiling pt of all. Most people get these confused. DO NOT mix DOT 5 with any other fluid. But DOT 3 and DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 can all be mixed without any damage. I think that DOT 3 is older and should not be used in the newer vehicles. It has a lower boiling pt and was ok with frt disc and rear drum, but IMHO it should not be used in 4wheel disc brake systems. I do agree that its 6 of one and 1/2 doz of another in changing the fluid reservoir,

Tim

G-force, thanks for the power bleeder link. I see a xmas gift coming :grin: . The one I have at the shop is a $250 unit. A little out of my budget,Tim

I just checked my cap on the brake fluid and it does state DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluid, so I guess either one is ok with Honda. It surprised me!

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ShaneS

Discussion Starter · #9 · Sep 19, 2005

Re: Brake fluid change anyone?

wingdr said:
I just checked my cap on the brake fluid and it does state DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluid, so I guess either one is ok with Honda. It surprised me!

I read somewhere that DOT3 is actually in the car now and at the honda dealer, they only sell Honda DOT3 so I put in prestone high performance DOT3. Tomorrow, I will suck out what is in the resavour and put in new honda stuff since I made a mistake, honda reccomends 3 years not 2 for changing brake fluid.

MikeQBF

· #10 · Sep 19, 2005

Re: Brake fluid change anyone?

wingdr said:
Mike, silicone is DOT 5. I believe it is used in the new corvettes. Most new cars today use DOT 4. You can also use DOT5.1, which has the highest boiling pt of all. Most people get these confused. DO NOT mix DOT 5 with any other fluid. But DOT 3 and DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 can all be mixed without any damage. I think that DOT 3 is older and should not be used in the newer vehicles. It has a lower boiling pt and was ok with frt disc and rear drum, but IMHO it should not be used in 4wheel disc brake systems. I do agree that its 6 of one and 1/2 doz of another in changing the fluid reservoir, Tim

Thanks for the correx, Tim. There's been such a witch's brew of brake fluids in the past decade it's hard to keep the players straight without a program.

Almost as bad as automatic tranny fluids... :|

wingdr

· #11 · Sep 19, 2005

Re: Brake fluid change anyone?

ShaneS, I really do not think that you need to change out the DOT 3 that you put in. It probably is as good as or better than the Honda DOT 3, since it is a high performance DOT 3. I have been a wrench for almost 40 yrs. and have been to too many different schools and classes to mention. DOT 3 is good, DOT 4 is better and DOT 5.1(wagner heavy duty) is the best you can buy. Please do whatever makes you feel comfortable, :grin: as long as you don't mix in DOT 5, Tim

froggyac

· #12 · Jan 21, 2006

Re: Brake fluid change anyone?

Hi can anyone tell me what's a reasonble price for brake fluid flush? I called up a Honda dealer today and they wanted $125 for the brake fluid flush. Is that reasonable?

gnoblin

· #13 · Jan 21, 2006

Re: Brake fluid change anyone?

One person brake bleed, without special tools.
I have not tried it on my E yet, but on other cars, trucks and atv's I have cleaned the system by removing the fluid from the master cylinder reservoir with a suction gun, replacing the fluid. Open the bleeder valves, adding a length of tubing and letting them drip until clean. The shorter lines will clear up first. You must monitor the reservoir and not let it run dry.

Or they can be opened one at the time, starting with the one the longest distance and working back toward the master cylinder. This method takes a long time to complete.

DO NOT LET THE MASTER CYLINDER RUN OUT OF FLUID.

lizzurd

· #14 · Jan 21, 2006

Re: Brake fluid change anyone?

I was just reading the back of the honda brake fluid bottle......they say DO NOT mix with dot 4 fluid.....

lizzurd

· #15 · Jan 21, 2006 (Edited)

Re: Brake fluid change anyone?

wingdr said:
Mike, silicone is DOT 5. I believe it is used in the new corvettes. Most new cars today use DOT 4. You can also use DOT5.1, which has the highest boiling pt of all. Most people get these confused. DO NOT mix DOT 5 with any other fluid. But DOT 3 and DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 can all be mixed without any damage. I think that DOT 3 is older and should not be used in the newer vehicles. It has a lower boiling pt and was ok with frt disc and rear drum, but IMHO it should not be used in 4wheel disc brake systems. I do agree that its 6 of one and 1/2 doz of another in changing the fluid reservoir, Tim

G-force, thanks for the power bleeder link. I see a xmas gift coming :grin: . The one I have at the shop is a $250 unit. A little out of my budget,Tim

I just checked my cap on the brake fluid and it does state DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluid, so I guess either one is ok with Honda. It surprised me!

I just double checked the 2005 service manual and it states DOT3 only......and my cap says dot 4 as well...

1fastvx

· #16 · Jan 22, 2006

Re: Brake fluid change anyone?

Motive power bleeder is the way to go!! I have one and I love it. I can have my fluid completely flushed out in no time at all. You don’t need the import model to do a Honda. Just get the universal power bleeder (model# 0101).
http://www.motiveproducts.com/02bleeders.html

Also I recommend Valvoline Syn Power brake fluid. A lot of guys that Autocross and Road Race use this fluid. It is not the most expensive out there, but it does a great job! I use it my race Civic and also in my wife’s stock Civic. You can find it at most auto parts store.
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=51

John

wingdr

· #17 · Jan 23, 2006

Re: Brake fluid change anyone?

I also use valvoline syn power brake fluid in all my brake jobs. I use wagner HD dot 5.1 in all the clutch reservoirs on motorcycles because it has a higher boiling point. The syn power seems to hold its color longer, therefore I believe it takes longer to become contaminated and get darker. Just my opinion, of course. It seems to last longer in my daughters '97 civic.(clutch)
Just do NOT mix dot 3, 4, 5.1 with dot 5. But, Dot 3,4,5.1 can all be safely added to each other.
Dot 4 has a higher boiling point than 3 and Dot 5.1 has a higher boiling point than 4. Hope this helps, Tim
Just remember that hondas are sold all over the world and sometimes that is why they mite recommend only a dot 3. It could be all that is available everywhere.

Big E

· #18 · Jun 15, 2006

Just talked to my trusted long time mechanic about the recommended 3yr brake fluid change on the E. He said that it doesn't HAVE to be done and that eventually the brakes wear out, get replaced, and the fluid is in essence is changed at that time.

I also asked if he thought ABS would be additional motivation to change the fluid and he said that if you mess with the fluid and have one of the ABS "valves" (my word) stick open (or closed?) then the service has done more harm than good.

BTW, because I'm on two wheels a lot I accumulate miles pretty slowly... 10k-12k per year... by the time I need a brake job the E (and brake fluid) might be 6 or so years old?

Oh yeah, my dealer said they do it at 50k and another said they do it by how it looks.

Any thoughts?

ApriliaGuy

· #19 · Jun 15, 2006 (Edited)

Big E said:
Oh yeah, my dealer said they do it at 50k and another said they do it by how it looks.

Any thoughts?

The answer is "D All of the above"....(a)every few years or (b)when it ain't clear or (c)50,000 miles or so. ;-)

I only do about 8-10k miles per year in the E 'cause I ride the bike more. My bikes get done every other year....weather they need it or not. Brake fluid is cheap and easy to replace....why invite trouble in such an important component of your car/motorcycle? :???:

I agree w/ the coment about the Valvoline SynPower....good stuff.

Will

Honu

· #20 · Jan 28, 2010

G-force said:
I flush every 2 years in all of my cars. This product works wonders:
Motive Power Bleeder

Fill the power bleeder tank with fluid of choice (I prefer ATE super blue, easy to tell the old from new) Remove lid from your MS reservoir, tighten the lid from the power bleeder on the MS reservoir, pump to 15lbs pressure or whatever the manual says (different for different cars) Then go to each corner and install a drain tube to your bleeder valve and open, bleeding the old fluid into a proper receptacle. You should let it bleed until you see clean fluid and no bubbles. tighten it and move to the next corner.

Before I bought this tool I dreaded bleeding brake systems by myself. Now I actually enjoy it, it's so easy. :grin:

I do love this forum!
But I must say the brake fluid bleed info was suprisingly hard to find on the forum with a bunch of ways possible to title that procedure. And I have been reading mediocre reviews of one man brake bleeder vacuum kits for those of us with wives that whine about the time and effort to sit there pumping brakes and friends say "You want me to come over and WHAT?"

Anyway, I came across the Motive pressure system and it sounded good, but its a MAJOR relief to FINALLY find some people that have used it on the Element with good results.

I am embarassingly far behind on changing the brake fluid for both my Element and my wife's Accord. THANK YOU(all of you) for the tip! I will skip over to a site and buy the Motive system.

Its appears the Motive 0101 model is the way to go and it appears to include 1101 adapter for the Honda.

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