Honda Element Owners Club banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am doing a brake pad and rotor change. I was trying to lube the pins with my CRC synthetic brake grease but it looks like The Caliper bolt or pin is stuck inside the caliper bracket. I think it rusted into the side walls inside. I have tried hitting it with a hammer and spraying Liquid wrench inside and nothing. The damn thing is stuck inside. I dont think that i want to order a whole new caliper bracket as well as the Pins. Anyone ever experienced this during their brake job???????!!!!!!
Also.........does anyone know which caliper pin goes on the top of the bracket and which goes on the bottom. I remember reading somewere that the pins are specific to the top hole of the bracket and bottom????
 

·
EOC Rank: Crankypants
Joined
·
14,898 Posts
You didn't say whether you're doing the front or rear brakes, Vpanin. The parts diagrams don't help a heck of a lot, but here they are:

FRONT
Top: Pin A, Honda p/n 45235-S9A-A01
Bottom: Pin B, 45236-S9A-A01, and bush, 45233-S01-A01





REAR
Top: Pin A, 43235-S84-A51
Bottom: Pin B, 43262-S84-A51




It looks like the upper pins have longitudinal grooves,[edit: flats] and the lowers don't. Can anybody verify that?
 

·
Registered
2008 Element EX AWD TRP
Joined
·
2,887 Posts
Unless they were installed clean and dry, and the boots were cracked, the grease would have prevented moisture from entering. The pins don't fit the bore so snuggly that they should be rusted in place. It's more likely that the grease has thickened and is creating a vacuum lock.

Caliper brake cleaner is a better solvent for caliper lube than Liquid Wrench.

Have you attempted twisting them? You can either use the flats on their outboard ends, or thread the mounting bolts back into the pins and use the hex heads with a socket wrench. Another possibility would be to remount the caliper loosely, and work a pry lever between the caliper body flange and the mount.

The front bottom pin have replaceable rubber-like seals near the inboard end. I recall the rear upper pins have a lateral flat. (I service pins one at a time to avoid accidentally switching them.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I am doing brakes all around but The pin that is stuck is the one in the front (bottom pin). I actually tried twisting them with a wrench and one foot planted on the Bracket........still nothing. Feels like the damn pin is welded on there. What would be the damage if I just leave it as is?????
I appreciate the diagram ramblerdan
 

·
Registered
2008 Element EX AWD TRP
Joined
·
2,887 Posts
. . . What would be the damage if I just leave it as is?????
A function of the guide pins on a single piston caliper, is to allow the lateral entering of the caliper over the disc, so the two pads get equal wear.

You say that you tried hitting the pins with a hammer. Was that as if they were nails, or radially on a wrench (as if it were an impact wrench)?

If the caliper body is mounted to it, you can't rotate the pin independent of the body. The flats on the pin and caliper body act as a wrench holding them locked together.

I'd remove the top caliper guide pin, reattach the caliper to the bracket with just the bottom bolt (torque 80 lbf-ft). With the pads out, using the biggest flat screwdriver or brake tool you have, try to pry the caliper away from the top of the bracket, The screwdriver against the bracket will work as a much longer lever than a socket wrench. Try to utilize your body weight to push the screwdriver handle.

If that doesn't work, I'd take the caliper to a automotive machine shop. They may be able to use an pneumatic impact wrench to free it. If they can, they can tell if the caliper bore can be chased, or if the caliper must be replaced.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,264 Posts
C clamp

Use the same c clamp that you use to push the piston back in the caliper , that should give you a start , then use a 17mm open end to twist the boot , once you get alittle movement then try to pull it out , don't worry , once you get past this point and actually get the pin out (taped goes on top) pack it with brake lube , then take your time , cause sometimes reseating the boot can be a pain !!!! Especially the rear boots ! You CAN NOT leave it like that , the pins act as a piston to set and release the pads while braking ......

Good luck
Guinness

Hey Dan , don't ever recall seeing a bushing on the front pin (lower) ???? I've removed them quite often , now i've got to look !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,645 Posts
The pin w/ the "flats" goes towards the top. In the attached pic, the pin to the left is the top pin. *edit*These are from the rear. The fronts are almost identical, but the bottom one has a goofy sleeve around it*

I'm gonna recomend a new bracket and pins. It is very important that those pins move freely to keep the caliper (and pads) from binding against the rotor.

If you get it free and clean out the cylinder section of the bracket and the pin cleans up ok you might be alright. I'm guessing that the pin (and cylinder in the bracket) will likely end up very ugly/corroded/pitted.

To get it apart try mounting the bracket back on the car and using a 17mm wrench on the end of the pin to twist and free it.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
143 Posts
Ah, so it's a flat, not a groove. Interesting. If you can turn the pin, what purpose does the flat serve? If you can't turn it, what's the point of having a hex head on it?
It is meant so you can hold it w/ a wrench while undoing the bolt - not always needed, but when you do need it...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
143 Posts
I am doing a brake pad and rotor change. I was trying to lube the pins with my CRC synthetic brake grease but it looks like The Caliper bolt or pin is stuck inside the caliper bracket. I think it rusted into the side walls inside. I have tried hitting it with a hammer and spraying Liquid wrench inside and nothing. The damn thing is stuck inside. I dont think that i want to order a whole new caliper bracket as well as the Pins. Anyone ever experienced this during their brake job???????!!!!!!
Also.........does anyone know which caliper pin goes on the top of the bracket and which goes on the bottom. I remember reading somewere that the pins are specific to the top hole of the bracket and bottom????
OK, you have 2 choices -

a) Buy a new bracket and pins (this is how we do it @ dealer)

b) drill a small hole in the front of the caliper bracket so you can spray your choice of penetrating oil onto the cavity that holds the pin - it is rusted in - you may need to heat it as well and then you can remove the pin, clean it out, re-lube it (your choice of silicone grease is good) and then seal the hole you drilled with RTV (this is how I fix things in my own shop - unless money is no object)

Big difference between "fixing" and "replacing" parts in a car...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
To get it apart try mounting the bracket back on the car and using a 17mm wrench on the end of the pin to twist and free it.
Im gonna try this tomorow or they day after as my time to work on the car is limited .........plus I have another car I can use. If this doesnt work then Im done trying to mess with this thing and will buy a new bracket and bolts. Looks like around 50 bucks for everything with shipping at autozone. My car has 130k miles and its from upstate NY where they get a lot of snow. Rust was not nice to this vehicle but i had to buy it as it was the best condition element in the tristate area for 7K . I changed the shocks, sway bar bushings and links, radio, installed the keyless entry, changed all the fluids except the tranny and brake fluid which is next as well as finishing up my pads and rotors. Im hoping to drive this baby to work till it has 230k miles. I am in love with this vehicle, not so much about the looks but the many things it has to offer.....including the very very spacious interior which is what sold the car for me
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,645 Posts
If you can turn the pin, what purpose does the flat serve? If you can't turn it, what's the point of having a hex head on it?
Yup...the pin will turn. The flats don't meet w/ anything in the caliper bracket.

I think they're there to let road salt get past the grease. :twisted:

I do know that in every instance where I've seen them w/ flats they've always been used on the "top" of the caliper. Never seen them on the bottom. I've heard that it helps prevent binding due to caliper movement...but I can't say fer sure.
 

·
Registered
2008 Element EX AWD TRP
Joined
·
2,887 Posts
It is meant so you can hold it w/ a wrench while undoing the bolt - not always needed, but when you do need it...
Different flats.

The external flats prevent pins from turning freely, they sit against matching shoulders on the caliper body.

The internal flats down length of the pin permit lube and air to flow freely within the bore- the lube downward, the air up toward the top flat.

The external boot's primary function is to prevent water and debris from entering. The pin lubricate is immiscible. If a new boot installed, and bore and pin are cleaned and relubricated each time the pads are changed the bore should remain rust and salt free. If the bore is completely filled with grease, the pin may become hydro-statically locked in place, or when it moves outward, whatever dirt or debris has collected around the boot will be sucked in.
 

·
Registered
2008 Element EX AWD TRP
Joined
·
2,887 Posts
Yeah...but why only the top pin?
The bottom pin usually is thinner and has a ring seal that provides more clearance the full length of the pin. The added clearance allows that pin to move more freely. The top pin follows along to maintain perpendicular movement.
 

·
Registered
2008 Element EX AWD TRP
Joined
·
2,887 Posts
that makes sense too. Did the OP ever get the rusty thing out?
Dunno, but let's wait until next Monday, so he's had another weekend to get replacement parts from Autozone and fit them. My guess is that when he reassembles the caliper he'll be back with another question.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
didnt get the parts from Autozone yet. Its been about five days and its still showing that the order is being processed. Im almost ready to call them to find out what the deal is. I got some new pins, boots, couple of anti rattle pieces that surround the pads, and I have a caliper bracket coming. My mechanic said that he thinks he can reuse the old brackets by heating up the pin to remove it. I just have to wait for my parts so I can see if he can help me reuse those old caliper brackets
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top