[Diagon]

Edited for clarity:

I've got a 2011 Element, which I've been running in California. They stole my cat and there are no OEM's available. So I put in an EPA CAT at 1/25th the price ($120 vs. $3000). For sensors, I used an OEM fuel-air (upstream) and a Denso O2 (downstream). Anyone have experience with this:

1. Should I expect the check engine light to come on with this EPA cat? Or is it likely to stay off?

2. At this price it can't be worth anything near a CA cat. Will the theives be able to tell the difference? Or might they cut this one out too?

3. For when they come available, where online is a good location to buy OEM CA cat's at a good price?

This has gotten so bad in CA (with both Elements and Priuses), that despite an anti-theft device, this is my second time dealing with this. I'm at the point of thinking that when I can finally get a CA cat, I should just swap it in when I have to get the car smogged, and then swap it back out so I won't lose it.

 

[halfast]

Did I miss something in the amazon description? what I saw was that it was an EPA compliant cat. If that's the case, yes, they will steal it, they don't care if it's CARB or EPA compliant.

And this will show which aftermarket cats are CARB compliant: CARB Compliant Parts Search

 

[ajchien]

The link you provided was not a plain pipe, but rather an EPA compliant catalytic converter.

 

[Diagon]

The link you provided was not a plain pipe, but rather an EPA compliant catalytic converter.

Ok, my terminology is wrong - I've edited the question to correct it.

That EPA cat cost $120. The CA cats cost $3000. Clearly the EPA cat is not worth what the CA cat is, so I doubt there is any reason to steal it. My question #2 is regarding whether the thieves can tell the difference.

 

[Diagon]

Did I miss something in the amazon description? what I saw was that it was an EPA compliant cat. If that's the case, yes, they will steal it, they don't care if it's CARB or EPA compliant.

And this will show which aftermarket cats are CARB compliant: CARB Compliant Parts Search

My terminology is wrong and I've edited the question.

There can't be anything in that $120 EPA cat that's worth stealing, while the $3000 California cat is. Can the thieves tell?

 

[Mcdirtymetal]

My terminology is wrong and I've edited the question.

There can't be anything in that $120 EPA cat that's worth stealing, while the $3000 California cat is. Can the thieves tell?

My guess will be that the thieves won't care.

 

[07lmnt]

Thieves won't know the difference. However when they go to sell it the cat, recycler will be able tell. and won't pay the same as an OE.
Long story short, they will still steal it.

 

[Diagon]

Alright, thanks. I guess. :/

Any thoughts on the check engine lights for an EPA cat in a CA car?

And, where to buy an OEM cat at good prices?

 

[ktemkin]

Diagon, your statement that "the CA cat costs $3,000" is wrong. A Honda OEM cat may cost $2,000-$3,000, but I just bought and installed a Walker direct fit CA cat from RockAuto for about $470. I just checked and it is still available for that price.

 

[myhybridburnsgasandtires]

do you know if the secondary set of o2 sensors were damaged at all in the theft? they are what determines if your car throws a CEL or not after you fix the missing cat.

 

[ajchien]

1. The CEL should be off with an EPA cat. That said, there are many people that complain of “no name brand“ aftermarket EPA cats not working after install, or failing shortly after install.
2. the aftermarket EPA cat you linked looks similar to many other aftermarket CARB cats. I think your risk of theft is the same.
3. The OE Honda cat costs $3000+ in my area. Aftermarket CARB cats can be found online for a much less expensive price.

 

[Diagon]

1. The CEL should be off with an EPA cat. That said, there are many people that complain of “no name brand“ aftermarket EPA cats not working after install, or failing shortly after install.

I see, so this may not last long. "CEL" is ... which light?

It may be some time before OEM cats come back in stock. Do you have suggestions about a dependable EPA cat that I can use in the mean time?

2. the aftermarket EPA cat you linked looks similar to many other aftermarket CARB cats. I think your risk of theft is the same.

Alright, I may have to go back to looking for a reasonable antitheft device. The gangs here in the Bay Area seem to have adapted to the ones the shops are putting in. Any suggestions about what might work?

Or, maybe I can weld on a plate that says, "Cheap EPA cat!" ...

3. The OE Honda cat costs $3000+ in my area. Aftermarket CARB cats can be found online for a much less expensive price.

I was indeed waiting for OEM cats to become available again, though the shops I went to were telling me that the aftermarket ones were only $100 less. How do I tell which ones won't fail? (eg. the Walker that @ktemkin mentions below.)

[...] I just bought and installed a Walker direct fit CA cat from RockAuto for about $470. I just checked and it is still available for that price.

I had been sticking with OEM parts for everything, up until not being able to get one since this theft. Can you give me any pointers on what might be a reliable aftermarket cat?

 

[Diagon]

do you know if the secondary set of o2 sensors were damaged at all in the theft? they are what determines if your car throws a CEL or not after you fix the missing cat.

By "secondary set of O2 sensors," you're meaning the downstream sensor on the cat, yes? That was taken, so I had to replace it, and I used a Denso. The upstream was also taken. I used an OEM.

 

[nsxtasy]

I see, so this may not last long. "CEL" is ... which light?

CEL stands for Check Engine Light. It's the warning light on your dash that has a picture of a car engine. It's referred to and described in your owners manual as the "Malfunction Indicator Lamp".

FWIW, searching using my 2008 Element as an example, Rockauto does indeed show two CARB Compliant cats for $469-572 (as ktemkin mentions above) and three other EPA Compliant (but not CARB Compliant) cats for $317-325. I also tried looking them up on the Autozone website and the prices were $1475-1489 for two that are legal in California, and seven others for $214-799 that say they are not for use in California.

 

[Angus II]

Hello,
I just bought another 04 Element with a missing CARB Catalytic converter and bought the Walker brand #82812(CARB compliant) from Rock Auto. It's the weld in one for the price of $392.79, plus the shipping with other needed part. I'll need two spacer pipes to make it work, that will only cost about $20 from the local auto parts store.
The Walker #82812 will comply For Ca. and other smog states. They also have the direct fit but, I didn't want to open a can of worms if, the exhaust to manifold bolts broke off... It's a bitch to get the manifold off (without breaking off the heat shield bolts) and out of the Elements engine compartment(out the top), believe me; I know. The weld in cat was a better option for me, your mileage may very... I bought this 04 from the beach area, it only been next to the beach for three years. But, the salt air has taken it's toll on the steel bolts and fasteners, salt kills.

 

[Element Art]

Another thing that everyone could do is to contact your legislators regardless of party. Ask them to support nonpartisan legislation to require recyclers to NOT BUY STOLEN catalytic converters. There are many bills that place more responsibility on the companies that buy stolen items AND they know they are stolen.

 

[Angus II]

Hello,
That sounds great and I'm all for it.
But, there is always the black market here in Ca. and it's a short drive to Nevada. Yet, pull a part will not sell Cats here in Ca. I wonder what they do with all of theirs???

 

[SurfShack]

Just to be clear, if you have to smog your Element in California, the replacement cat must be CARB compliant and not the EPA rated cat, right? I know they do an inspection every time I go....

 

[Benmbrowne]

Had mine stolen 2 times, same as you - on the first “no” cats available and no eta on a replacement - also replaced mine that met the epa laws for cats in California for $265 installed. 2 yrs later - yep - it was stolen 20’ from the front doors at a Kaiser Medical Facility at about 10:30 in the morning. Again, still no OEM and the insurance company was great. I replaced “again” with one of the new epa approved cats this time it was $165, but I also asked if I could add a Cat security device - that was an additional $200 buck and I was able to have it mailed directly to my mechanic for installation. That was Oct 2020 it’s still intact so I’m hoping if someone looks - they will pass.

 

[GT500]

Just to be clear, if you have to smog your Element in California, the replacement cat must be CARB compliant and not the EPA rated cat, right? I know they do an inspection every time I go....

If you are registered in Ca, you MUST have a CARB approved cat to pass. An EPA cat will not pass, and they check!