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Discussion Starter #1
I have a question that I need answered from a dealer rep. This situation happened to me with my Accord and I don't want it to happen to me with my new E.
:confused:

The "Service Engine Soon" (not the maintenance reminder) light came on in my Accord so I took I made an appointment with Honda to get it checked out because the manual said it could be related to my seat belts or air bags. I had a bumper to bumper warranty on the car. I go to my appointment, an hour later the service guy comes out and tells me he can't find anything wrong. He said if the light comes back on to make an appointment because they may need to replace some sensor that affects my seat belts. He tells me my car is all ready and I can go check out and get my keys. I go to check out expecting not to pay anything because this would be covered under my warranty. Clearly, I was wrong because they charged me $88! I told the cashier that I had a warranty that covered this stuff so she went to get the service guy. He said because they couldn't find anything wrong, he had to charge me the check up fee or whatever. I was FURIOUS! I argued and finally stormed out. As I was pulling into my driveway guess what? If you said "The light came back on" you are the million dollar winner! So, there was something wrong with my car and I got charged! ugh!

Is this allowed? If it is a warranty item, can I really be charged? I'm asking now because while driving to another building for a meeting today, my AC was only blowing warm air. (I'm very upset considering my E only has 2600 miles on it!!!!!) I want to make an appt but my luck by the time the appt rolls around, it will be working and I'll get charged some fee.

HELP!!
 

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I gather this is an after-market warranty? Check the fine print on the warranty - my guess is the Dealer is correct - that there are lots of loop-holes in the warranty that save the warranty company from paying. One of the ways these 3rd party warranty companies make money on what they sell.

If it is the Honda warranty, call the service manager, tell him the light is on again and you want another appointment, and a refund of the charge, before you take up the situation with Honda USA on why they aren't providing adequate Honda warranty coverage. Most Honda Dealers don't charge for any kind of a problem check on a car that is still under factory warranty, even if they can't find the issue right off.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
On the Accord, this was the Certified Used Honda Warranty. I have since traded in that lemon and I hope its burning in a pile somewhere.
I never did fight to get back my $88 because I was just tired of fighting with that dealership on everything....
 

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I am dealing with a crappy service dept right now. I had my E in for the upper b-pillar latch rattle and the blower motor for the ac/heater noise. Both of these issues had been serviced by my dealer under Honda warranty previously. I have an add on warranty that the dealer sold me when I bought the car that is supposed to cover bumper to bumper.

Well, I took the car in yesterday and they said they could quite isolate the door problem but made some adjustments and lubed the doors. When I picked up the car the door was still making the noise and I pulled back in to have them fix that. The shop foreman or whatever his title was (not the service manager but actual mechanic) drove with me and heard it as we pulled out of the parking lot. He immediately said "oh, that sound, that is the upper latch. Give me 10 minutes or less". He fixed that no problem.

The blower motor had some leaves in it as well as a dirty filter which is what they claim the sound is coming from. They wanted $200 to replace the filter and clean the blower out. I told them that I knew the filters were dirty they always get dirty and that the motor is not that hard to pull out and clean. Which I have done a few times before when I replaced the filters trying to find out what the noise was. Well they insisted on charging me a diagnostic fee for the blower motor even though all they cam up with was dirt in the fan as a reason for noise. The noise is actually coming from the motor itself yet they refused to pull the motor out of the assembly to test it. I am waiting on the service manager to call me back right now. I paid a half our service for them to tell me the filter on my ac was dirty. Funny because the service dept does a Honda Multi-Point Vehicle Inspection Checklist on every car that comes in and it has "Cabin Filter" as one of the check points, which by the way is marked dirty.

I would assume that if I was paying for a diagnostic charge for a problem they would test the part that was giving a problem. Especially when that part had failed in the exact same way before and they have record of fixing it.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong here.

As I pulled back into the dealer service dept with the rattling door I stepped out of the car and walked to the back of it. Ripped off the dealer emblem and pitched it across the service bay. I was livid!
 

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On the Accord, this was the Certified Used Honda Warranty. I have since traded in that lemon and I hope its burning in a pile somewhere.
I never did fight to get back my $88 because I was just tired of fighting with that dealership on everything....
Just turn those little fights into competitive challenges. They count on most folks not wanting the extra stress. I, personally, enjoy the win. Won one today even---- quickly got my $ back on that never shipped stereo with a cleverly worded e-mail.:D
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Just turn those little fights into competitive challenges. They count on most folks not wanting the extra stress. I, personally, enjoy the win. Won one today even---- quickly got my $ back on that never shipped stereo with a cleverly worded e-mail.:D
That was just one of MANY issues I had with that car and that dearlership. I was having transmission issues and they said I just needed to replace the fluid. Yeah, too bad 3 days later I almost caused a massive accident because it felt like my transmission was about to fall out of my car!

Anyway, I called and made an appt to get my AC checked on Saturday. I tested it the whole way home and it is still just blowing warm air. I really just want to get this fixed and not get charged some ridiculous diagnostic fee. What did I pay for a warranty for if they are going to charge me for stuff?!?!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
guess u got a lemon?
Lemon is the understatement. The final straw was when I was driving down the interatate, it started raining, and my windshield wipers stopped working.... again.

I'm just hoping my E doesn't turn out to be a lemon. I get in this morning and it is blowing out some cooler air, but not like it should be. I made an appointment with Honda for this Saturday so I'm curious to see what they say.
 

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if you take the car in and it is determined that "nothing" is wrong with your vehicle, then you owe them for the labor of looking at the vehicle as there is nothing for the waranty to cover.

This happened to me, the end result was a new transmission, but a year ago i brought it in and they could not reproduce the vibration and i paid $50 fo labor for them to look at it.

Sucks, but that is how it works.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
What happens in the event that a day or week later, the same thing occurs again and they do determine the problem? Shouldn't I be reimbursed for that initial diagnostic fee because there really was something wrong and they just couldn't find it? I would really like to have a dealer that views this site to answer.
 

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That is how I feel about it! They will get there money through the warranty deal.

My issue is with the dealer not completely investigating the problem part and being lazy about their inspection/diagnostics. As they say, "we tried to locate the sound/problem but couldn't replicate it".

I am taking my hvac blower motor out of the car and hand delivering it to the service manager for him to inspect it.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well, I luckily didn't have to worry about it this time. My AC issue turned out to be a leaky O ring behind the condenser and this was covered by my warranty. But, I really would like to hear from a dealer rep on what the real story is regarding my previous post.
 

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But, I really would like to hear from a dealer rep on what the real story is regarding my previous post.
I am not a "dealer rep" but I can provide some insight - however, you won't like what you read because the topic is a total can of worms, or Catch 22 depending on your individual viewpoint.

The first point that every one will think is totally irrelevant is that, in North America at least, the vast majority of dealership technicians are paid on a flat-rate basis. This means that the only way a technician will get paid for a repair order line is if there is a monetary charge associated with that repair line. If there is no charge, the technician is paid nothing at all - no hourly rate, no salary, no retention fee, nothing - period.

Who pays? If a valid warranty repair is performed, the warranty pays a specified flat rate fee. If the dealership covers the line, for whatever reason, one of the departments pays an internal rate fee. The only other two options are that the customer pays a fee for the technician's time, or there is no charge at all - which really means that the technician "pays" in the form of a penalty by working for "free".

The original post indicated a "verifiable" concern - there was a warning lamp illuminated (although I would believe it was an SRS warning lamp, rather than the "service Engine soon" lamp) and there would have been a diagnostic trouble code associated with the warning lamp. IF the warranty in question was "Honda Care" it is a warranty that will not, by policy, pay for ANY diagnosis or inspection fees unless a covered failed part or repair is performed.

I don't know how hard the technican worked at duplicating the failure, or actually spent on coming to a conclusive "diagnosis" - it doesn't sound like it was very thorough since the fault manifested itself shortly after it was picked up. This factor would have been a good argument for getting re-imbursed for the initial charge, once the fault was diagnosed and determined to be a warranty - covered repair.

What it all boils down to is the reality that some 'concerns' that vehicle owner's have and expect to be covered under warranty, or at no cost to them, are legitimate concerns that should be repaired in a manner that meets the customer's expectation. Some concerns turn out to be items that are not covered by warranty (either due to "exclusions" in the policy or due to the concern being a normal characteristic of the vehicle). Some concerns are so intermittant and non-verifiable that a technician cannot reach a diagnosis at all simply because he / she has not been able to duplicate the fault at all.

So, understand that a "warranty" is in reality an insurance policy, and just like insurance policies, will have exclusions to avoid paying on a claim.

Understand that if your vehicle has a condition that concerns you, but doesn't happen all the time, you'll do better if you can take an advisor, service manager or technican for a road test and demonstrate your concern first hand.

Also understand that anytime you take your vehicle in for service (other than for a recall or campaign), there is a real possability that you will be charged a fee - fairly or unfairly in your view.

There is also a possability that the fee may be waived if you make a big enough stink, or re-imbursed if a repair is eventually performed for the concern that is covered by "warranty". Also understand, particularly if you yourself don't like to work for "free", that most (if not all) technicians feel the same way.

FWIW, there are questionaires that a customer can fill out at the time of service write-up for noises and leaks, A/C concerns, drivability and transmission concerns. Not all service advisors make use of these forms but as a customer, it is in your best interest to provide as much information as possible to increase the likelyhood of a technician being able to verify and duplicate your concern and reach an accurate diagnosis.

Vehicle service and repair isn't rocket science, but there isn't any magic wand that a technican can waive over your vehicle to tell him / her what the problem is. No crystal ball either - if there was, no one on this forum would have ever heard of me, 'cause I'd have won the lottery a long time ago.
 

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Thanks Honda Tech for adding you insight here.

I had an issue with my dealers service dept not looking at the exact parts that I had problems with when I took it in for service. I said look at the upper b-pillar latch, it is out of adjustment again(they had done an adjustment a couple of year ago) and the blower motor is defective. I was charged for the time they spent doing other inspections and adjustments that did not have to do directly with the problem I stated.

I complained to the service manager several times for a refund after I took the car back for a second time to have them inspect the same parts again. This time they did and solved the problems I initially brought the car in for. Unfortunately they forget to apologize to me for not "diagnosing" the problem the first time. I use the term diagnose with quotes because I did the diagnosing for them. They just said, yeah it defective, we will get you a new one under warranty.

After enough complaining and a random call from my salesman to see how the car has been treating me after 4 years, I was offered a full refund on my services. I also informed them that I will no longer be doing business or send any business to the service department. The sales department on the other hand was great.
 

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Scorsone, I would whole-heartedly agree with you if you feel that the term "diagnosis" is an abused and often mis-used term.

"Rack Fee" would probably, in most cases, be a more accurate reflection of what really occurs.

I would also encourage anyone who has their vehicle in for an issue that requires a "diagnosis" to pay attention to the difference in mileage between when the vehicle was dropped off and when it was picked up. Kind of hard to justify certain "diagnosis" times when a concern is not verified or duplicated and the vehicle has obviously not been driven further than the back parking lot.
 

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Yes, a rack fee would be a better term for what they did. They did drive the car for about 5 miles which is plenty of time to find the problem. The shop foreman heard the noise as soon as he and I drove off the dealer lot :rolleyes:.

I understand that the upper latch is not warranty related and would completely be willing to pay for the adjustment but only if they fix the problem.
 
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