[1fastvx]

MikeQBF...I have not looked up all the listing, but be sure that also does not include the motor also. Sometimes it is a little hard to figure out the coding. I have a junkyard that specializes in Acura and Honda parts in the same state as me. They are known to have very nice and clean parts, but the pricing is a little high. They are asking roughly $700 for an E tranny. So the higher amount you are pointing out may just be a complete engine and tranny.

John

 

[rhurt]

rhurt...I meant the mounts are different. I wasnt really reffering to the bellhousing to engine connection.

John

1fastvx Gotcha. My bad. My original plan was actually to do a full swap with either a TSX or RSX-S tranny. But then I realized that the conversion was a more elegant solution (and cheaper).

 

[MikeQBF]

MikeQBF...I have not looked up all the listing, but be sure that also does not include the motor also.

Entirely possible - there were several yards quoting $700-800, too. The $1800+ got my attention, tho'.

 

[spdrcr5]

I really love this mod! Once the 07 Elements come out with their 5AT how tough would it be to make my 4AT into a 5AT? I realize an AT is quite a bit different from an MT... but this has my curiosity peaked now. Or is it possible that the gears could be used from another 5AT in the Honda/Acura lineup?



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[1fastvx]

The conversion of the manuals will always be easier. You will most likely find it tough to change out the automatic transmission since it is tied in with the ECU. You may have to swap a number of parts from the 2007 making it real expensive.

John

I really love this mod! Once the 07 Elements come out with their 5AT how tough would it be to make my 4AT into a 5AT? I realize an AT is quite a bit different from an MT... but this has my curiosity peaked now. Or is it possible that the gears could be used from another 5AT in the Honda/Acura lineup?

 

[MikeQBF]

A/T is a whole diff'rent bird, Larry. Even if there was a "hole" waiting to be filled in the gearcase, there would be SOOOOOO much else that would have to changed. And even I don't like taking apart A/T's. That's just not something that's done casually. I'd rather do an engine - less work.

M/Ts are butt-simple by comparison. That's what makes this mod feasible.

 

[spdrcr5]

A/T is a whole diff'rent bird, Larry. Even if there was a "hole" waiting to be filled in the gearcase, there would be SOOOOOO much else that would have to changed. And even I don't like taking apart A/T's. That's just not something that's done casually. I'd rather do an engine - less work.

M/Ts are butt-simple by comparison. That's what makes this mod feasible.

I figured it would be near impossible... I've done a few manuals and a ton of engine swaps. Only took apart one AT before and that one was already broken, I only did it out of curiosity.



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[ramblerdan]

Only took apart one AT before and that one was already broken, I only did it out of curiosity.

I did exactly the same thing once, and kept thinking, "Gosh, I'm glad I don't have to put this thing back together!"

Watching this thread with great interest. When the time comes for a clutch change, a 6MT could go in with it.

 

[RainDriver]

Pros of 6-speed?

Rhurt, can you explain the advantages of the 6-speed (ie., why did you do this), please? If I understand what you've said, you added a 6th gear, but it's slightly lower than the E's OD 5th?

Also, how does the shift pattern work? Three 'rows' of two gears (like normal, but with 6th where R is now, and R presumably one notch further to the side)?

I could live without a reverse lock-out, but if this just makes 5 gears below the same OD, it wouldn't be for me. I really want a taller 'top gear,' whatever number it is.

Oh, and congrats on what seems to be the first 'serious' gearhead mod. Your place in the pantheon of E heros is secure, mon ami.

...ah, right, I see you had another thread... never mind...

 

[rhurt]

Rhurt, can you explain the advantages of the 6-speed (ie., why did you do this), please? If I understand what you've said, you added a 6th gear, but it's slightly lower than the E's OD 5th?

...ah, right, I see you had another thread... never mind...

RainDriver, I see that you've found the first thread. But to sum this mod reduces the rpm of the engine in 6th gear. The rpm in 6th is equal to the rpm at the same speed in 5th multiplied by 0.800. In other words engine speed is reduced by 20% for a given vehicle speed. and hopefully gives increased fuel economy.

 

[MikeQBF]

I have ordered the parts and fingers are crossed that they aren't back-ordered into eternity...

...which is the potential problem here. Manufacturers estimate parts production and inventory stocking based on projected vehicle sales + predicted failure rates. Failure rates for 6th gear are going to be essentially zero. All it takes is a few of us ordering these parts outside of their production estimates to completely gum the works.

OTOH, how many of us are there willing to actually crack-open the case. I'll be doing this on a AWD model, so hopefully I won't find out the hard way that, for instance, the rear-drive transfer gearing isn't intruding into the 6th gear space.

 

[fishlee]

I have ordered the parts and fingers are crossed that they aren't back-ordered into eternity...

...which is the potential problem here. Manufacturers estimate parts production and inventory stocking based on projected vehicle sales + predicted failure rates. Failure rates for 6th gear are going to be essentially zero. All it takes is a few of us ordering these parts outside of their production estimates to completely gum the works.
OTOH, how many of us are there willing to actually crack-open the case. I'll be doing this on a AWD model, so hopefully I won't find out the hard way that, for instance, the rear-drive transfer gearing isn't intruding into the 6th gear space.

Mike
Looking at the manual the transfer case runs off the differential gear. 6th gear is on the opposite side of the case.
Where did you order from. I didn't see any acura parts at Majestic?

 

[MikeQBF]

Mike
Looking at the manual the transfer case runs off the differential gear. 6th gear is on the opposite side of the case.
Where did you order from. I didn't see any acura parts at Majestic?

[forehead slap] I guess I knew that... I don't have the manual in front of me.

Go to Majestic's sister, Acura Carland: http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org

The only problem with Majestic/Acura Carland is they don't put real parts numbers on the web pages to help you shop from the list. At least the descriptions match, so you can sort of stumble your way around it.

 

[Snarf77]

Thus far I've spoken with about 10 shops and nobody wants to do the work. I even got a guy so bold as to say "I could absolutely do the work, but it would take too much of my time".

I thought mechanics got paid for their "time"..but i digress. The search continues.

 

[MikeQBF]

Thus far I've spoken with about 10 shops and nobody wants to do the work. I even got a guy so bold as to say "I could absolutely do the work, but it would take too much of my time".

I thought mechanics got paid for their "time"..but i digress. The search continues.

You've stumbled into a very annoying trade secret. When you pay to have work done, you are paying for the time it takes according to the "rate book" estimate for the job - a standardized guide that everybody uses. A good mechanic makes money by being better than the rate book. Since this particular job technically isn't in the rate book and it's requiring them to - heaven forbid - think about it, they're going to be disinclined to do it.

Also - franchise transmission shops (like Aamco) usually don't crack the case. They swap whole assemblies, and the real work of repairing transmissions is done off-site. That's probably the biggest reason that guy wouldn't mess with it.

Generic transmission shops likely won't touch it, as you have discovered. Your best bet is to find a shop that caters to a "tuner" clientele.

 

[worthywads]

My tranny building friend works out of his garage and there are lots of small tranny building shops that would be happy to do this kind of work, look for the one man operations. One thing he doesn't do though is removal/install. He has another shop yank the tranny, he picks it up, does the work, and delivers it back to the shop for the install.

Getting a shop to do the removal/install could be an option if you can't do that yourself. But $1200 might be the bill. Finding someone to do just the internals might be easier if you're delivering the tranny to them. I work next to 2 transmission shops and know them well, and I work at a brewery, they're happy to do things like this for a friend with beer.

I had a few beers with my "builder" today and talked about the swap, now it's convincing my wife that we aren't going to ruin her E. I need more posts with 30+ mpg tanks to get her to convince her it's worth it.

 

[bluecivic107]

TSX Reassembly Manual

Parts are ordered...Honda Element Manual in hand...just need the TSX Manual...

Can someone scan the TSX Manual pages that involves the reassembly of the Mainshaft and Countershaft...

I will be performing this mod as soon as parts come in...
THANKS in advance!!!

 

[rhurt]

I'm so proud.

I can't believe this response. I'm really impressed that so many of you are seriously considering this. I will also say that this one little gear has really added to the character of my element. I dont dread highway speeds like I used to, and the fuel economy is great. This is just what this little box needed.

For anyone that is attempting this insanity, please send me a PM and I'll get in touch with you, so we can talk about specifics before you start if you want. Also I've got ~700mi on the tranny now, but I don't know about the longevity of the mod.

 

[Green Machine]

Easy..just do not tell her!! Then the next time she is driving down the highway you just politely ask why she never uses 6th gear :-D

 

[MikeQBF]

I can't believe this response. I'm really impressed that so many of you are seriously considering this.

It goes where no man has gone before, Ric. ;-)

Seriously... as mods go it's unique. It makes sense, it doesn't hack things up, it's especially elegant, and, most important, it actually accomplishes something measurable AND solves a problem. We - and every other car forum for that matter - have debate after debate about CAI and exhaust mods, "grounding" systems, and innumerable other bolt-ons that "add 5%" of something - nearly all of them unprovable. This isn't like that.

I sure hope Honda is paying attention here, because they ought to be embarrassed that this wasn't something they already offered.