Honda Element Owners Club banner

621 - 640 of 672 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
So, I'm doing it, I found a good local manual transmission shop in the Sacramento CA area,
"Manual transmission where house "

I had a horrible noise coming from the trans, I had chipped 3 teeth off the ring gear lol ouch, set me back some,
But needless to say, I found them and they were willing to do the conversion no problem, since we were doing the full rebuild, 850, and replaced the ring gear assembly 300, the 6th gear was just a 100$ ad on for labor, and he's giving me a 1yr warranty on it.
:/ either way I needed it and had the parts. :)
So I'll be putting that, and this stage 4 10lb flywheel and clutch kit back in there soon,

I wanted to ask here,
Will I have to do any tuning or modification to my ecu profile to accommodate the 6th gear conversion?

I have a Hondata kpro,
And a swapped k24a2 lol

Tips n tricks anyone?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,675 Posts
...

I wanted to ask here,
Will I have to do any tuning or modification to my ecu profile to accommodate the 6th gear conversion?

I have a Hondata kpro,
And a swapped k24a2 ...
does the kpro know which gear the transmission is in? i suspect that it doesn't. some ECUs have a rev limit for each gear, but that's about it. if the ECU doesn't know what gear is in use, how would it know to do something different than what it always does? my vehicle has stock ECU which doesn't have any issues with the 6th gear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
It does,
It shows it in the app, and laptop the current gear it's in, and a pin out for a programable shift light *(I want to mod a led in to the stock cluster to light it up, lol,

And that makes sense to have to adjust the rev limiter for that gear, I'll be logging things in the kpro for sure,
That's cool the stock ecu takes it np,
Thanks for the reply, that makes me feel a little more comfortable lol and makes some sence,

While its down I'm working on a small laptop with a broken screen, to hook up behind the glove box ,to the video input on my double din unit, so I can watch it real time, and log everything,
Sadly it has to run Windows for the hondata ecu application, I wish they supported more in the mobile app, or a Linux version to work on the raspberry pi's, and arduinos for that sort of thing.
*(I should probably make a thread on that when I'm done)

But I'm super egar to get that 6th gear in there. There just having a hard time locating a replacement ring gear and assembly. Might have to go dealer direct, :/ but it is what it is,


Would you recommend a transmission oil cooler for the 6th gear application?

It's hot here normally, but I was thinking that maybe with the higher gear, it would have a higher temp,....... idk, have you experienced any of this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,675 Posts
no experimentation with transmission cooler, and not inclined to go there, as i don't think it's necessary for MT. the oil in a MT doesn't have to push any blades or be pumped through fine orifices, it just has to lubricate. when in 6th gear, the input shaft doesn't have to spin as fast as it would in 5th, so i would suspect there would be less friction and therefore less temperature.
maybe i've overlooked something, but i don't think so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
If you're going through all that trouble getting a 6 gear for performance, i'd suggest adding a LSD.

If you're looking for fuel economy, i'd suggest increasing the final gear ratio, as my 6 gear still has good acceleration, which really only be enough for cruising. And it's too close to the 5th gear, i usually skip it and go from gear 4 to 6.

Full disclosure: My opinions are based on my driving experience with my CR-V.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Thank you, on the transmission cooler info, I had a few second thoughts and talked to the shop when I picked it up, they said if I was gonna tow something through the desert, but not needed, I went with the oem fluid, found 3qt online for about 28$,

And still kicking my self in the ass for the lsd, or lack there of.
Lol I really wishe'd I'd got in to that sooner, but , ..... now rebuilt I'm sure it would be , cleaner/ no broken stuff, lol,

There are a few. But what was that oem civic one that would fit? I wasn't sure in this thread or another mentioned it
*(I'll scroll back )
I'd save up and try to do that at the next maintenance interval tho ;)

For the 6th gear , what ratio?
I had the one mentioned in the build list,
Once I get it all going, *(delays delays)
I'll see about uploading a map of the tune for the 6th gear tho,

I'll be driving it around Sacramento flatland and to the mountains up north.

After all of this, I'm goin to see about relocating the gastank, spare to a ladder like the gobi one, working on a roof rack and grill rally lights, light weight.
/ I want to relocate the gastank to make some room to make UHMW polyethylene rocksliders, like side skirts, but like a flied L on both sides lol, bolt them in with some spacers to the side steps bolt on to. Leaving a gap in the center for the drive train and exaust. And a skid for the unibody. , *(as well as whatever that thing is under the grill that is supposed to be a skid, lol.....
*(in work at a utv fab shop that makes the UHMW skid's for Polaris rzr, yamaha yxz, can am x3, Honda pioneer. .. lol IT, )

None the less, I want to see how dirt and light weight off road hill clime go.
Bring some of that rally spirt back in the off time,
I like some of the mods thay did to the crv like yours, have you.
Or anyone done any off-road use for there 6th gear awd element? I'm gonna log what i find and upload it,

*(i sewar, "because racecar" has chimed in my head during the while down time period for this mod, but really the element in general,
JUST wish I had some lsd in time.....haha)

Thank you guys, and the infamous rhurt.
This is gold,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
update, and sorry for the hype spam in the other posts,

the 6th gear tranny is in , and it is a beautiful thing,
the reverse is a little wide, but not quite your passengers leg lol
shifts smooth , the guys i took it to above , larry at the manual transmission warehouse in north sacramento ca, that guys a wiz, and fair,

full scrincro rebuild, replaced my chipped ring gear and spindle, he said the 6th gear was a cake and it all kinda fell into place, they mentioned when i picked it up that a few people called there about it , hopefully from here lol haha

it shifts smooth and clean, i really haven't been able to open up in 6th , but it's definitely nice,
i still need to make a map for the 6ht gear, but no issues

i went with the stage 4 clutch kit from clutchmasters, and the 10lb flywheel,

and dam, that made a world of difference,


i would definitely recommend it,

now, any one know about clutch adjustments for wear over time, this solid clutch plate (no springs) is pretty wicked like a ferrari jk,
but there's a bit of chatter in 1st and R, friends have said that's common with the stage 4 clutch or race clutch's, i know it will cause wear, so and i haven't looked back in the service tech guide, but adjustments for the wear on the clutch ?



i would most definitely recommend it ,

and ? i would recommend anyone else also getting the lsd if they went this far,

but i noticed, launching it , there's no slip,

hold the clutch, let the limiter on the launch controll go to 4000, and let it go , it hardly chirps twice locks up and your gone,

i know that's the k24a2 205hp in mine but, since there's not much slip, i would assume i might have it ? i know to late to tear it down again just for that, but its the AWD version, realtime,
the wheels spin together when on the lift, ie by hand , the rear spins with the rear and same w the front , in the same direction, so i'm assuming it has one? or i might be mistaken,

also im sure the civic one would be better than stock if so tho,

when i make the map for the 6th gear,
(btw anyone know the ratio?)

ill upload it and start logging data for fuel eco, lol or for that profile anyways lol

for anyone that's interested, it definitely revs lower in 6th as for wear lol

anyone that has the k24a2 swap in there E i would certainly recommend it ,
i mean, where else is the power gonna go jkjk


now time to start stokeing pipe dreams of either a turbo or a supercharger, lol funds if any, could not allow for both lol hahahahahaha

thank you , the folks that replied, Rhurt, the guy that bought me the parts and sent me on this dark ally lol this mod is most definitely worth it , and makes me grin driving down the road, seeing other E's, lol aint none of those other E's like mine :) :) :) burnt toast

i think this is probably one of the coolest mods you could do to your E
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,119 Posts
Do the turbo when you can. You will love it. The change from the 140 hp to 205 hp is great. Really noticeable, but a 400+ turbo powered E is "awesome" Cruise the highway at 78 mph in 6th gear and at 2800rpm/ 20+ mpg. Very fast and fun billboard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
hey, i think i seen your videos, your the guy that did the hellement on youtube yea?
mad props , ive been diggin in here a bit, and seen that one all over, :) thats a sick E
hella hellment < hey hella sponsors yea? jkjk

looking at the jackson racing supercharger, wow awsome,
but deffnatly leaning towards a trubo, 400hp? + ? :) thats wheni need to relocate the gas tank put in a 4 point cage and make a harness bar for my corrabu seats jkkj lol

on the street mines a sleeper, but im adding weight :( and setting it up for offroad,

i work at a UTV shop, makeing uhmw skids and rollcages, lol
so its in the works, haha, the AWD is nice, the K24a2 swap is impressive, *(i cant take cred for that) but the 6th speed addon, thats the kicker, ppl are floored when the hear it, lol

i really want to open it up in the dirt,

im wondering tho, that kind of hp , does the ratio for 6th really open up more ?

im thinking if i do upgrade the LSD later on i might look in to another 6th ratio? id applicable lol or needed, and
needless to say i would deffnatly have the internals redone with the hardend parts for the head, and pistions, to take that kinda HP lol i was thinkin like 350hp with a turbo , lol but dam, :)

man i cant stop cheesin, that it has a 6th gear mod and is so smooth,
lol waiting on some ppr work till i can drive it on the street aegain, but the hot laps ive made with it around the shop and the strech of road near by ,

it flies, shifting to 6th feels ballsy lol smooth too jk, because its just a diff spot, and i know it wont let you go full R retard while driving at any real speed, but dont want to dammage the tranny lol that lockout thing would of been cool, lol but not needed, you have to pitch the bugger way in right feild (standard, not metric lol do they make a E that drive on the left? ) it just takes a sec to readjust to the pocket, lol but its nice, :)
i am getting a shifter - lol sickspeed platnum something to match the silver, i havent given in to the red accents even though i have the red type I-vtech in the under the bonnet lol most of the shifters out there are red lol red letters or something lol
dont hate red, like the silver, want to darken the plastic, dont feel the red fits, unless you go full red/black,

but it is smooth and transitions well i need to test more , and get my awd therapy in ,
i feel like that 6th gear is just that under the sleeve extra that hits the spot,
i mean people i know in to big motor/ 4x4 offroad, UTV , ultra4 raceing,
that don't like hondas, tuners or imports, like my E :)
they turn there head real quick when im gettin it lol , and i cant wait to drop it in 6th in the dirt, out int he desert and the red dirt fire roads, awd the **** out of my E lol hahaha, i love this thing , *(still need to get deeper dish offset steel rims, and some a/t tires and stick them out about an inch from the plastic on each side, i think that would help with the top heavy, and wheel base, turning, i dont want to lift it, or lower it, just wider, to hug the dirt lol )

i will make some videos/ threads, when i get it where i want it, and when i'm gettin it in the dirt,

and upload my log maps for the consumption and whatnot in town, in 6th gear :)

this is the 6kst mod you could do for your E *(other than the turbo , always turbo lol )

thanks man, if that's your ride in the video , your smoking the **** out of that mustang, killed me and kept me alive when the tranny was in the shop jkjkjk ,
legend *(wait that's a acura jk )

lol srry for the offtopic billboard wall of ADHD blah blah , lol
your E is dope AF, thank you for the info
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,119 Posts
Off road would be cool. Wouldn't work with the Hellement. Lowered 3-1/2". Tiens and heavy duty sway bars. The vids are from the previous owner . I bought the vehicle from the guy he sold it too. Guy didn't maintain vehicle well. I spent a lot of time and some funds to get it back to the vid vehicle. I had to rebuild the original engine after I broke a motor mount, destroyed the serp belt and overheated badly. Since I was going to redo I bought a TSX, 205 hp motor. Rebuilt it instead. First dyno was 437whp. Did some work and changed the intake, went to 70mm and raised boost to 20#. 496 whp and 439 torque. Decided it was too much for the street. Running 415whp at 14# for the street. On a trip to So. Colo for the Growler bike race. Garmin GPS recorded 128 mph in 6th gear at 6200 rpm - ran out of road and blew off the plastic pieces around the windshield. Decided to slow down. Had to buy new pieces and clips. Double back taped both sides and have not lost them again. Had it up to 125 going thru Utah. It is a fun ride. Post pics of yours when you get it in the dirt or sand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Are you running Kpro?


Off road would be cool. Wouldn't work with the Hellement. Lowered 3-1/2". Tiens and heavy duty sway bars. The vids are from the previous owner . I bought the vehicle from the guy he sold it too. Guy didn't maintain vehicle well. I spent a lot of time and some funds to get it back to the vid vehicle. I had to rebuild the original engine after I broke a motor mount, destroyed the serp belt and overheated badly. Since I was going to redo I bought a TSX, 205 hp motor. Rebuilt it instead. First dyno was 437whp. Did some work and changed the intake, went to 70mm and raised boost to 20#. 496 whp and 439 torque. Decided it was too much for the street. Running 415whp at 14# for the street. On a trip to So. Colo for the Growler bike race. Garmin GPS recorded 128 mph in 6th gear at 6200 rpm - ran out of road and blew off the plastic pieces around the windshield. Decided to slow down. Had to buy new pieces and clips. Double back taped both sides and have not lost them again. Had it up to 125 going thru Utah. It is a fun ride. Post pics of yours when you get it in the dirt or sand.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,119 Posts
Yes. I have the latest version of Kpro. I am planning on going to Haltech however. I have Haltech on my S2000 and it is so much better. It has saved my engine twice already. Has more sensor abilities and is much easier to use. It is a total stand alone and compared to Hondata it has greater capabilities.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Yes. I have the latest version of Kpro. I am planning on going to Haltech however. I have Haltech on my S2000 and it is so much better. It has saved my engine twice already. Has more sensor abilities and is much easier to use. It is a total stand alone and compared to Hondata it has greater capabilities.
Send me a message if you decide to sell your kpro. I'll look into Haltech as well
Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Hellyeah,
Lol

Dude I dig the kpro. But I'm learning it, thanks for the info on yours, impressive. I don't feel so bad getting the starts of a rebuild :)
I definitely want to get the internals down the road, that's a must,

The motor mount thing blows,

When we stuck the tranny in I noticed the front was cracked on one of the 3 legs,
:( race friend told me this thing, if you get that liquid polyurethane, *(I'll check with him again on it)
If you fill the empty cavitys with it,
And let it harden *(for the most part )

It stiffens it up a little, but would avoid having to replace them, or get solid rubber ones,

I'll make a thing for that, if it don't work I'll just get one lol, but if it comes out ok, I'll do it as preventive mataince,

,

That's cool tho, you got it , makes me feel not as bad, like I can't claim the start of the build, but I'm definitely making it mine,

That's what's up you got the k24swap as well, :)

I'm happy with the hondata, new to it, but digging in ,
That other one tho,
That sounds sick,
How would you say it saved your s2000?
This sounds intresting,

The info you gave my on the 6th gear made me gin ear to ear, that sounds fast in that thing,

I've thought about lowering it,
I have, but, I was sole of the clearance, lol,
I really don't want to lift it, it's top heavy,
Maby level out the back, and make an interior brace bar between the top of the shocks, behind the seats, but bent low, and possibly disconnect, *(like a flapped 2 bolt locking pice)

I like how they look lowered tho for sure,
And I'm sure the handling there at the speed too :)
But I think with some grippy bigger terrain tires, I want them to stick out about an inch. 2 inches, from the fender wells,
Wide as I'm able, to widen the wheel back at that height,
Just got some 1/4 hdpe plastic scap for the mud flaps, lol gonna need em, and Maby do like the rally armor style, but bigger, / flair, lol, I'm sure getting it in the dirt is gonna kick it up some , awd, lol,

But your lowered ride is sick, for the street and road, and is beast Af, hands down, the # are impressive, and it's like a **** brick, it ****s and gets,

Good to hear you have taken care of yours, I mean, ya kinda have to, it's a legend now, lol,

Thanks for the window clip thing,
(I want to make all the plastic that shade if I could lol)
I'll be use some good thick double stick tape, the dark grey stuff, ;)
Berry good info man, thank you for the reply,

And to you to bud on the hondata,

DId you have to map the 6th gear in the other ecu you mentioned?
That one souls legit lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Finally joined the E Forum! First post here to say I did the 6MT this weekend and it works great!

Here are the parts I ordered + used:

Mainshaft 6th Gear 23590-RAS-A00
Needle Bearing (35 x 41 x 24) 91103-RAS-003
Collar (28 x 35 x 24) 23916-PNS-000
Reverse Shift Piece 24240-PNS-000 (mine had a roll pin)
Countershaft 6th Gear 23491-RAS-000

I modified the shifter piece to allow reverse instead of buying a new one. I also flipped the 5/6 Synchronizer Hub so there wouldn't be a chance of popping out of 6th. Although now, under heavy load it will pop out of 5th but you can hold the shifter and it won't pop (probably not recommended). Cruising in 5th is okay. Consider it an updated updated updated list! If I ever find a manual TSX at a junkyard I would root through the transmission to get the 5/6 Synchronizer Hub (the only difference I think are those little detents so it doesn't pop out of any gear AND extra parts are good parts).

Thanks for whomever first discovered this and took the time to take it apart and come up with the plan!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Finally joined the E Forum! First post to say I completed the 6MT conversion this weekend. It works great!

Here are the parts I used:

Mainshaft 6th Gear 23590-RAS-A00
Needle Bearing (35 x 41 x 24) 91103-RAS-003
Collar (28 x 35 x 24) 23916-PNS-000
Reverse Shift Piece 24240-PNS-000
Countershaft 6th Gear 23491-RAS-000

I modified my original shift arm interlock to allow reverse smoothly (ground about 6mm). I also flipped the 5/6 Synchronizer Hub so that the detents would be facing the 6th gear (saving +$300.00). It does pop out of 5th under load but not while cruising. It won't pop out of 5th if you hold the shifter; it doesn't need excessive force, just enough to stop it from popping out. I was thinking of grinding the little detents in my hub but didn't want to risk it, not having another. If I ever find a manual TSX at a junkyard I'll root through the transmission to get a few extra bits and the Synchronizer Hub. I'm almost certain the hub is the only difference!

Thanks to whomever first found out that these transmissions were basically setup for a 6spd! You've done all of us a huge favour!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
I am about to embark on the 6MT modification (trans it already out in fact), but I see conflicting info on the parts list related to the "5-6 Synchronizer Sleeve Set 23626-PNS-315"

Those are honda part numbers. Actually they are Acura part numbers. The extra parts were from a TSX. I ordered them from acuraautomotiveparts.org

Well you can use the factory 5th synchro. At the time I originally did this, I wasn't sure that this would be possible. According to the original parts diagrams it looked like I needed the 5th-6th synchro to work with the new gears. But it turns out that there was a design change and it is not necessary. However, it also is a smoother synchronizer than the factory one, but the difference is probably negligible.
and

No this part is for every conversion. You need it. It has nothing to do with the welded fork - which yours more than likely does not have.
Has anyone done this without the sleeve set and been satisfied? The most recent post on the subject indicated that the sleeves were being used to help prevent failure - thought what that failure was, or the history, isn't covered.

I reviewed the parts listings in this thread and used the Majestic Honda website at HondaAutomotiveParts.com for the 2006 Civic SI to produce my parts list here. Even with the insane exchange rate for USD to CAD, it's still about half price to buy the parts in the States. I'm travelling stateside soon, and so will pre-order everything and pick it up there and save on shipping. If anything is on backorder, they can ship it. I'm not in a big hurry as I have a back up car, but if the wait is significant, I will just do the conversion another time.

23916-PNS-000 COLLAR, DISTANCE (28X35X24)
24240-PNS-000 PIECE, REVERSE SHIFT
24430-PNS-000 INTERLOCK
90011-PPP-000 BOLT, SPECIAL (20X25)
23491-RAS-000 GEAR, COUNTERSHAFT SIXTH
23592-RPN-305 GEAR SET, MAINSHAFT SIXTH
24412-PNS-000 ARM, MAINSHAFT BRAKE SYSTEM
24413-PNS-000 SPRING, MAINSHAFT BRAKE SYSTEM RETURN
23626-PNS-315 SLEEVE SET, SYNCHRONIZER (5-6)
24201-PNS-010 FORK, GEARSHIFT (5-6)

Notes:

1) the mainshaft sixth gear set is just a combination of 23590-RAS-A00 GEAR, MAINSHAFT SIXTH and 91103-PNS-003 BEARING, NEEDLE (35X40X24); it's just cheaper buying as a set than buying separately.

2) the gearshift fork (5-6) is only necessary if the existing gearshift piece is welded to the existing reverse shift piece; I will disassemble the MT to check if this is the case before I order it.

3) I'm ordering the synchronizer (5-6) sleeve set; I want to reduce the risk of a transmission failure.

4) I'm still not sure about ordering the MBS arm and return spring parts, as it was unclear to me, even after reading the relevant threads, whether or not these MBS parts served any function. Should I get these?

Thanks
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,119 Posts
Sauce Box. The Haltech has multiple ports for sensors that can protect the engine. I had the oil pressure sender break off in the block. Loss of oil & pressure but the Haltech pressure sensor shut down the engine at 10# and stopped the engine from being damaged. I also have fuel sensor, AFR sensor, EGT sensor, water temperature, and boost. Hondata has some but not as many and not as easy to setup. The Hellement will live and be well as long as I am on the green side. It is a fun ride and suits me to a "T".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,675 Posts
whether you "really need" the synchros depends on your vehicle. there were thoughts that some early models may not have needed them, since the "backside" of the 5th gear synch was good enough. this train of thought supposed that Honda reduced the cost of finishing the "backside" later on. or maybe these were just "lucky" vehicles.
my 2004 vehicle was converted, w/o the sleeve set, at ~40K and the 6th gear synchros failed at ~200K miles. so maybe you can get away w/o the sleeves for a while. i would have preferred that the transmission didn't need to be modified a second time to replace the synchros and clean out any pieces.
the vehicle has ~225K on it now.
if you have your own garage and lift, the R&R of the transmission may not be that big a deal. that was not my situation.
yes, the sleeve set is expensive, but do you feel lucky?

I am about to embark on the 6MT modification (trans it already out in fact), but I see conflicting info on the parts list related to the "5-6 Synchronizer Sleeve Set 23626-PNS-315"

and

Has anyone done this without the sleeve set and been satisfied? The most recent post on the subject indicated that the sleeves were being used to help prevent failure - thought what that failure was, or the history, isn't covered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Thanks for the reply, that is helpful perspective. On a low mile car, I would definitely agree. As these cars age, doubling the cost of the conversion becomes a relevant consideration. At 200k, roughly mid-life for a cared-for Honda, a free/repurposed 5th gear synchro that could get one to 355k miles doesn't sound all that bad. Also considering used Elements can be found for twice the price of the "full" conversion parts list bill - it becomes an interesting question of economics. Being able to drop the transmission in just a few hours also factors into it!

whether you "really need" the synchros depends on your vehicle. there were thoughts that some early models may not have needed them, since the "backside" of the 5th gear synch was good enough. this train of thought supposed that Honda reduced the cost of finishing the "backside" later on. or maybe these were just "lucky" vehicles.
my 2004 vehicle was converted, w/o the sleeve set, at ~40K and the 6th gear synchros failed at ~200K miles. so maybe you can get away w/o the sleeves for a while. i would have preferred that the transmission didn't need to be modified a second time to replace the synchros and clean out any pieces.
the vehicle has ~225K on it now.
if you have your own garage and lift, the R&R of the transmission may not be that big a deal. that was not my situation.
yes, the sleeve set is expensive, but do you feel lucky?
 
621 - 640 of 672 Posts
Top