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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Well, all the tree huggers who criticized my replacing my Catalytic Converer will enjoy this post.

What happens, almost universally if the E came from the north, is that the two small bolts that hold the CC to the flange on the exhaust manifold are rusted beyond redemption, even with multiple applications of penetrating oil and heating them up to cherry red, they still twist the head of the bolt off.
The flange that the bolts from the CC attach to is welded on to the exhaust manifold and the nuts are welded onto the back of the flange.

It looks to me that you have to drop the whole front sub frame to get the old exhaust manifold out and install a new/used one. Anyone do this???
(found out later the manifold comes out the top).

I am still trying to Macgyver the thing so I won't have to do tha7t, but, but, but.....

Any insights, humor, or abuse is appreciated. Thanks, Philharmonic
 

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2007 EX AWD AT (two!)
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When I pulled the head on my daughter's, I took the exhaust manifold off from the top. I'm pretty sure I had the valve cover off before going after the manifold.
 

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2009 LX, Auto, Omni Pearl Blue
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The Honda Service Manual has procedure that appears to remove from above.
It involves removing the VTEC Solenoid, a couple of shields and the manifold-to-head bolts/nuts and the manifold-to-cat downpipe bolts.
Looks straight forward but I am sure it will require plenty of patience and yoga skills.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well, I could NOT imagine that manifold coming out the top, but it did not matter, I decided to check all 5 bolts on the manifold and all the subframe bolts to be sure they would all loosen up before I started dropping the subframe, and sure enough all the manifold bolts but the middle one {there are 5 I think} loosened, but the middle bolt rounded off and would not budge.

SO, I spent 5-6 hours under there, first grinding down the broken off studs and trying to use an extra long drill bit to drill them out. NOT HAPPENING, spent an hour and barely went in 1/4 of an inch.

So then I got all three of my grinders out, my dremel {that was useless} my air grinder with a 3 inch grinder blade {that was slow but oh so maneuverable did most of the work with it} and my Makita angle grinder with around a 4 inch grinding wheel.

I about wore my old compressor out, but finally ground down both studs on the CC side, and got around back and ground off the welded on bolts. Now I have two nice holes in the flange. It will not be easy, but I am sure I can get some 1/4x20 all thread bolts through there and find some way to hold the nuts on the back long enough to tighten them down. {you need all-thread bolts because you will run out of theads on a conventional 3 inch bolt with one inch of thread tightening down the springs and such}.

The first pic is of course the broken bolt one. one twisted off near the top and one near the flange.

The second is a proud picture for me, a thousand different positions, my arms and face covered with spark burns from the grinders, my back scratched and sore from crawling under and out from under the E a hundred times to switch tools, get more propane for the torch, find more tools, go to the hardware and auto parts stores, and, as an old man, hitting the head 5 times in 6 hours. LOL
 

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I guess I was lucky, all the bolts at both ends of the manifold on my daughter's E came out with a wrench.

I have used some 3M 90 Spray Adhesive to hold a nut in place long enough to get the bolt engaged (forward bolt/nut on the rear engine mount of a 1990 Accord).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Good idea. I might even 5 min. JB weld them in there, you never know if someone will still steal my aftermarket CC. So many theives are getting into the CC business now that the news is always talking about all the money to be made, so there are bound to be a bunch of unknowledgable theives who will steal a worthless one like mine. I do know that at least I won't be nervous now when parking my E, and I'm buying myself a new Garmin ZUMO XT with the profit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just a couple more pics of the new and the old CC's, and the honeycomb stuff inside each.

First pic is the inside of the old pipe showing the honeycomb part with all the money in it. If your's is turned to powder or crushed looking, then the CC is NOT as valuable as if it's intact.

Second pic is the New CC honeycomb, obviously different, and not worth anything on the CC market, so I am hoping the thieves leave it alone.

Third pic is the new and old side by side, as of RIGHT NOW I have NOT installed the new one, so I will wait till I get it installed and run awhile without codes to advertise the place I got it. I will say it came off Ebay and cost 115 dollars, free shipping.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So I installed it today. The large donut manifold flange to CC gasket was TOO LARGE so it cost me $22. to purchase the correct one, and I also replaced the exhaust flange gasket on the smaller pipe attached to the Resonator. I should have just left the gasket on there that was on the exhaust manifold, but I took it off, {pain in the A--} thinking the seller had sent the correct replacement.

The bolts and springs the seller sent were useless to reattach the parts. The bolts had only a small section of thread on the end of them, and it's impossible to compress the springs enough to insert those small bits of threads through the holes in the other flange. I reused one set of bolts springs, that was on the old CC and had to purchase some all-thread bolts and washers and nuts I got from Ace hardware {another $11 dollars} to get the job done.

At least it's on there, and quiet, and after 100 miles, no codes, which despite all my whining, if it works and doesn't throw codes, I will be a happy camper.
 

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Sounds like a win!
I will prob be doing the same to all 3 of mine..
Prob remove the cat all together on the K24a2 swapped one..
 

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So I installed it today. The large donut manifold flange to CC gasket was TOO LARGE so it cost me $22. to purchase the correct one, and I also replaced the exhaust flange gasket on the smaller pipe attached to the Resonator. I should have just left the gasket on there that was on the exhaust manifold, but I took it off, {pain in the A--} thinking the seller had sent the correct replacement.

The bolts and springs the seller sent were useless to reattach the parts. The bolts had only a small section of thread on the end of them, and it's impossible to compress the springs enough to insert those small bits of threads through the holes in the other flange. I reused one set of bolts springs, that was on the old CC and had to purchase some all-thread bolts and washers and nuts I got from Ace hardware {another $11 dollars} to get the job done.

At least it's on there, and quiet, and after 100 miles, no codes, which despite all my whining, if it works and doesn't throw codes, I will be a happy camper.
I'm glad it's working for you and is not throwing codes. Hopefully it will last.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
The guy I purchased the CC from texted me through Ebay and offered me $45 dollar rebate if I did NOT give him negative feedback. Heck, I only paid him $115 for the thing. I told him YES send the money, but also sent him pic's and info of the CORRECT donuts on the upper and lower ends of the CC, hoping he will send the right items to the next folks who buy, but I don't really expect him to, as the parts are all prebagged.


This is the link for the item I purchased. You might ask why I would post a link to an item that did NOT contain the correct installation parts. I posted the link, because, even though the installation parts were wrong, the thing FIT my Element AND has not thrown a code {yet, 300 miles so far}, and THOSE are the things I most worried about when purchasing.

I am including the part #'s of the large { 2 1/2"} and small {2"} "wire and asbestos" DONUTS that go between the exhaust manifold and the CC, and between the CC and the resonator. ONCE again, I am pretty sure that I did NOT need to remove the large donut from the exhaust manifold {that one stays on the exhaust manifold when you remove the old CC} and I THINK that I could have carefully removed the 2" one on the other end of the old CC and reused it on the new CC.

The first pic below, is of the Felpro # for the large donut between the Exhaust Manifold and the CC, which I purchased from Autozone. $22.

The second pic below, is the pic of the Nickson # for the small 2" donut that I think I purchased from O'Reily's for about $11.

As far as the bolts and springs go, I bought FOUR--3 1/2" ALL THREAD 1/4 x 20 bolts and oversize washers and nylon nuts from Ace. {they need to be ALL THREAD, or at least have a LOT of threads as it is hard to tighten down the springs enough, with only a few threads}. The 1/4" 20 thread bolts were pretty thin compared to the diameter of the stock bolts, but the next size up that ACE had in ALL THREAD was 5/16" and I was afraid they would be TOO LARGE to go through the small holes in the Exhaust Manifold flange where I had ground off the twisted off bolts and welded on nuts. I ended up reusing one of the sets of spring/bolts that came from the OLD CC and two of the bolts from Ace Hardware mated up with two of the springs that came with the new CC.
 

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Going thru the same thing you are (my donut gasket is leaking at the manifold). I was able to easily get the manifold (no shields on it) out the top without removing valve cover or any thing. I also cut spring and bolts with a grinder. I'm going to blast and paint the manifold then figure out the nut and bolt to use on the flange I feel OEM has better quality than the hardware stores. Once the exhaust is done, I have a leak (rust pinhole) in the oil pan so the front part of the subframe is going to be lowered. I check those bolts tomorrow while I wait for parts to come in.
 

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I don't know if I would have used nylon nuts (I'm assuming you mean nuts with a Nylon locking ring in them) - the heat of the exhaust system might wreak havoc on that feature.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I thought about that, I guess I could have double nutted them. They are long enough that if they start to loosen I will hear the exhaust leaking before the nuts come off completely. (I hope, LOL)
 

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I had an experience like that. Driving along I heard a clanking noise from under the car. I immediately pulled over and a kid from the house I had just passed came up to me with a long bolt in his hand. Turns out it was the front engine torque mount bolt (I had loosened it during some maintenance work and apparently didn't retighten it). The kid went into his garage and got me a 1/2 inch ratchet and 17 mm socket so I could reinstall it on the spot. That bolts goes in a bracket right in front of the exhaust manifold on my 90 Accord - man was it HOT trying to reinstall it.
 

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Best nuts to use on exhaust systems are made of brass. Brass nuts designed specifically for use on exhaust manifolds are typically taller than standard-sized nuts. Unfortunately, I've not found those taller nuts in metric sizes. But standard-sized, brass, metric nuts are fine to use and can be doubled for locking.
 

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BTW, I think I may have found "tall" brass, metric, exhaust manifold nuts, but I am not familiar with the studs they are associated with to confirm the thread compatibility. Can someone tell me what size thread they are? M6-1.00, M8-1.25, M10-1.25. etc., etc., etc.? Thanks.
 

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So I installed it today. The large donut manifold flange to CC gasket was TOO LARGE so it cost me $22. to purchase the correct one, and I also replaced the exhaust flange gasket on the smaller pipe attached to the Resonator. I should have just left the gasket on there that was on the exhaust manifold, but I took it off, {pain in the A--} thinking the seller had sent the correct replacement.

The bolts and springs the seller sent were useless to reattach the parts. The bolts had only a small section of thread on the end of them, and it's impossible to compress the springs enough to insert those small bits of threads through the holes in the other flange. I reused one set of bolts springs, that was on the old CC and had to purchase some all-thread bolts and washers and nuts I got from Ace hardware {another $11 dollars} to get the job done.

At least it's on there, and quiet, and after 100 miles, no codes, which despite all my whining, if it works and doesn't throw codes, I will be a happy camper.
For future reference, for broken fasteners you need a Rescue Bit.

Aftermarket parts are, in general, junk. What you save on the initial purchase price you lose in wasted time.

Honda exhaust bolt and spring kits should be available at a local parts store. I do not know about fitment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I may not understand what you are asking, but if the bolts holding your CC to the manifold came out without breaking off, then the welded on nuts on the manifold are still there, so you don't need nuts, and if your bolts snapped off, as mine did, then you have to either grind off the old welded on bolts AND nuts, or drill them out, either way you need to supply both nuts AND bolts to re-attach the CC to the exhaust manifold. Like I said, I probably did not understand the question, if so, sorry.
 
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