[Roadkill]

This may be a dead horse that has been kicked numerous times :evil: but...
What viscosity of oil do most people use in their Elements? I know it is recommended for 5W/20, but that recommendation is based on the federal Government and their CAFE requirements. Oil as thin as 5W20 may work fine in a midwest winter but I live in Florida and it does not provide the kind of engine protection I want, particularly in the summer. Before someone goes off on warranty, using a different oil does not invalidate the warranty, besides, mine is no longer covered under a warranty. I can't wait to see the discussions on this, might rival a discussion on the merits of a play-off system in college football.

 

[macmini05]

You will get some links. not much discussion ...........

 

[ramblerdan]

Note that the VTEC screen is sensitive to clogging, and a heavier oil could exacerbate this.

 

[Roadkill]

Clogged valve

I would almost take the other side that the use of 5W/20 leads to increased engine wear and that would lead to the clogged screen. That problem is what lead to my looking into the viscosity issue. I have been using 5W/20, because I thought it was Honda recommending it. As it turns out they recommend it because the credit they get for the slight increase in fuel mileage the government gives them, not because 5W/20 protects their engines better.

 

[07lmnt]

5-30 Mobil 1. I's good enough for Corvettes with 400 horsepower. Besides I get it for free.

 

[Dom.five]

I would almost take the other side that the use of 5W/20 leads to increased engine wear and that would lead to the clogged screen. That problem is what lead to my looking into the viscosity issue. I have been using 5W/20, because I thought it was Honda recommending it. As it turns out they recommend it because the credit they get for the slight increase in fuel mileage the government gives them, not because 5W/20 protects their engines better.

That's just not true!

In fact if you go to any of the big race tracks throughout the country, you will find Oil company booths with demonstrations, that prove that's not true.

Thinner oil has several advantages in modern engines that improve efficiency and durability.

I came from the old school when it comes to oil. When I was racing stock cars, we used 20w50. That was in the 1960's The thought was that the thicker oil had better film strength. Therefore providing more protection to the moving parts. That may have been true in those days, but it's not the case now.

The engines now run closer tolerances than they did in those days. Also there have been several improvements in the oil as well.

In one demonstration at the Mobile One booth, they take about one quart of oil In a jar. They have 5 or 6 Jars with varying weights of oil in them. They then have household mixer ( beater ) blades in them. They are all driven by the same motor, therefor all are rotating at the same speed. They have a thermometer in each jar. You can easily see that the internal friction generated by the oil increases as the viscosity goes up. Keep in mind that NO external heat source is applied. The heaver oil is 30 to 90 Degrees Hotter than the 5W20 as the viscosity increases.

So heaver oil heats faster than thinner oil, is proven by this simple demonstration. The hotter the oil, the less/lower the film strength.

You must also consider that the crank shaft has to hit the oil with every revolution of the crank. That equates to four times for every power stroke. Heaver oil presents a more viscous liquid mass for the crank to move out of it's way. Therefor creating an internal horsepower loss each and every revolution of the crank. That's to say nothing of the additional work the oil pump has to do to pump it!!

So heaver oil presents more resistance to the crank, robing horsepower.

Heaver oil is also less likely to properly lubricate the cylinder walls on cold starts. It will inherently splash less at low R.P.M.s ( do to the higher viscosity). Thereby providing less oil on dry cylinder walls.

So heaver oil lubricates less on cold starts, increasing friction.

Trust me on this one. The factory engineers, and automotive laboratories have spent hours running tests. You and I can't possibly come close having the ability/resources they employ to arrive at the same result.

Just run what they tell you to run, and you'll be far better off.


Dom

 

[marksbug]

dom has a few points there but if you run what you want to you will probly be happy, and so will your honda as long as it is kept clean.I run 10-30 castrol edge.seemes to get beter mpg but that is just in my head:razz: I have been a peffossional performance machinest for well over 1/2 my life. as a kid I ran cooking oil mixed with lacquer thinner in my dirt bikes ran much beter than any gas .but needs to be jetted corectly or you get a hole in the piston. as for any problems with other moter oil I have never seen a single problem caused by clean oil of suffeciant quanity in an engine. yes it takes more power to pump cold thick oil, and hot thick oil,if the oil gets knocked or squished out of the way you will have a dead bearing. a good race engine that is just about maxed out for it's size usualy has the oil gallys redirected & raidused to make the oil flow easyer & that makes more horse power to the wheeles/prop. but due to time, difaculty& production this isan't done on normal engines. so with the quality of todays name brand oil there should not be a problem with any oil you choose (within reason you wont need a 40 or 50 weight oil. 10,20 even 30 will be fine you will probly never see the defrence. I run a synthetic oil in my bug trans so it will shift fast. it's aboit 1/4 the weight of the normal gear lube. my v8 9500rpm race car 20 years ago used 40 gt1 kendall as did all of the race engines I built for customers.with no problems at all but oil has come a long way since then now I would use a 10-30 or 20-30 ,or in my bug witch is air cooled I like straight 30 in the summer .but that is subject to change at any time.with all the ceramic coating & dryfilm coating's that I use 10-30 would be fine possiably 5 wt. I am putting my bug moter back togeather with the same main bearings that I removed after 2 years of daily pure hell, I dry film coated them the first time, they dont have a scratch or any sigin of wear.so they are going into my spair stroker moter. technoligy works if you let it.(sometimes, with restrictions,limitations,operator ) good luck & I also live in florida

 

[ryland]

Honda Genuine 5w20 is thick enough to be classified as a 5w30 so read into that how ever you want. I think 5w20 or 5w30 flip a coin its not really going to matter. I do think that with a little extra wt it quiets down the timing belt and cam noise. Most 10w30 synthetics are the same viscosity as 5w30 conventionals. So use what you want but I would not use a 10w30 conventional in my E unless I lived in Hawii or somewhere that never went below 60F. If you cant decide a few good choices would be Honda Genuine 5w20, Chevron supreme/Havoline deposit sheild 5w30, or Castrol 5w20. They all are between 9.0 and 9.3 100cSt.

 

[GaryS]

I do think that with a little extra wt it quiets down the timing belt and cam noise.

But our Elements don't have a timing belt. That's why you don't hear it.:roll:

 

[breese524]

But our Elements don't have a timing belt. That's why you don't hear it.:roll:

I think I'd give Ryland the benefit of the doubt here. I don't recall oil going onto a timing belt, but timing chains are lubricated.

 

[ryland]

But our Elements don't have a timing belt. That's why you don't hear it.:roll:

LOL, ya I ment to say timing chain! :twisted: It really does though. That chain makes a lot of noise going through that engine.

 

[marksbug]

yup your wright !! but dont forget i9f it had a belt like most it would probly have a hydrolic belt tensioner. and oil weight can alter the workings of it also.they have a very small orfice in witch they get thier oil supply.ever try to suck or blow jello thriugh a coffie straw ???:roll::razz: so ryland was wright on both accounts.

 

[Rick92040]

I use 5-20 Moble 1 and I drive from San Diego to Las Vegas twice a month. It gets over 120 sometimes in the desert and I have had no problems I expect to get over 200k from this Element before I get another one.

 

[janetj1968]

If you don't mind me hijacking your thread....I need to ask a similar question.

My engine has a lot (almost 235,000) miles on it. The previous owner had recently switched to "extreme" oil (not a full synthetic) which I think could be a good thing. My first change was out of town and I got them to put in regular 5W20.

But the local place only has 10W30 Extreme...which means my choice is regular Mobil1 5W20 or 10W30 Extreme.

I can also tell you that I just had a false alarm with my V-tech oil switch...which was caused (I couldn't believe it) from being less than a quart low on oil (5W20)! The engine indicator reset itself within 30 miles of me topping it off. (I've already ordered a service manual and if it does it again, I'll replace the switch, o and filter and see if I can order in some 5W20 extreme or Honda 5W20). But it wasn't caused by "dirty" oil as this round only had 2300 miles on it (and I seriously baby my E).

I opted this oil change for the 10W30 extreme, and I'm really hoping I made the right decision. What do you think? Does running 5W20 in an higher mileage engine make the oil pressure switch more sensitive (causing it to throw a code less than a quart low)? Or do you think the solenoid and screen have already been affected by him burning "extreme" oil? Has my vehicle "gotten used to" the extreme oil? Would running a 10W30 extreme be better in this winter weather with a high-mileage vehicle?

 

[Dom.five]

Janet

Just stick with the 5w-20. It does what it is supposed to do, the way it was designed to.

If you want to know more about oil, there are several sights on the web that hold information. You can learn about how the new oils have a chain molecule engineered to do what oils could not do just 10 years ago.

Or sites like the plain language site may be more to your liking. Try this one.

The truth is, It does not matter if it's farming, electronics, building sky scrapers, or just plain old engine oil. YOU cant beat a professional at his own game! Consider that some one has paid this professional to train for his job. He has dedicated his life to his profession, and the best part of all, Someone else has paid for it.

Use the information provided to you for free! Make out like a fat cat!


Dom

 

[ryland]

I dont think I really follow what you said in your post? If it was me and I had 200k or more on my E I would definatly be running a 5w30. The 5w20 is mostly for cafe reasons in the U.S. and with that much wear on your motor after 200 some odd thousand miles your tolerances in your motor are definatly not the same as when it was new. With all that said hondas do run well on lower viscosity oil, IMO there is no reason to run a 10w30 in an element. I also as I said before think that a 5w30 quiets down the motor a bit. 5w30 is not much thicker that a 5w20 so it wont hurt anything.

 

[Dom.five]

I dont think I really follow what you said in your post? If it was me and I had 200k or more on my E I would definatly be running a 5w30. The 5w20 is mostly for cafe reasons in the U.S. and with that much wear on your motor after 200 some odd thousand miles your tolerances in your motor are definatly not the same as when it was new. With all that said hondas do run well on lower viscosity oil, IMO there is no reason to run a 10w30 in an element. I also as I said before think that a 5w30 quiets down the motor a bit. 5w30 is not much thicker that a 5w20 so it wont hurt anything.

The point of my post was, and still is, that people with well over 200,000 miles, and some with 300,000 miles are still running 5w20 in this engine!

Any engine that can do that amazes me! The fact that they are doing that on what the factory Engineers recommend is all the proof I need.

Run what you want.

But Remember this ( see post #23 ).

Dom

 

[ryland]

Oh no I'm sorry I ment my post to the guy before you. Your probably right that 5w20 is fine for the life of the motor. I just like to bridge the gap between 5w20 and 5w30 with a thin 5w30 because a little extra wt won't hurt anything.