[uther]

Hey everyone , I had started a post " steering rack " a few weeks a go but as the problem has grown and No one can find whats wrong with me E I'm reposting a new.
It's a 2004 EX 4wd automatic.74K All service has been done including rear diff changes.

Our E started grinding making a left turn only on throttle. Checked axle, cv etc all good, installed wheel bearing , still there.
The hotter the car gets, stop and go traffic etc. The more frequent the noise, and will start making the noise pulling away from a stop ( going straight) can get it to make the sound sitting in the drive way at about 2600 rpm in park.

Dealer replaced the cat, as it sounded kind of like when a Cat converter is going. Nothing ..

I have taken it to guys I trust ,can't find it , dealer can't findit only guessing , they think Trans is going. Had a gentleman who builds trans pull samples of all my lubes. check them for any signs . Nothing ,came back fine.
Anybody have any ideas? Considering driving it till something pops, then at least I know what needs to be fixed, but hate to that as well..:-(

 

[psschmied]

Is the noise in park the same as when you are moving? If you turn the steering slowly in park from side to side does it sound like groaning?

If the noise happens when the car is in park, it can't be the transmission. If it happens on straight acceleration, it's unlikely to be the power steering pump or steering rack. My thought is that parts that require lubrication or aren't supposed to move are rusted, have lost lubrication, or are moving more than normal.

Some ideas - the geometry of the front end is changing during turns, and when you rev the engine it produces torque that tries to twist it against its mounts. In order, check the engine mounts, the struts, brake pads, serpentine belt, the joints in the front suspension.

 

[uther]

Grinding parked E

Hey everyone , I had started a post " steering rack " a few weeks a go but as the problem has grown and No one can find whats wrong with me E I'm reposting a new.
It's a 2004 EX 4wd automatic.74K All service has been done including rear diff changes.
Our E started grinding making a left turn only on throttle. Checked axle, cv etc all good, installed wheel bearing , still there.
The hotter the car gets, stop and go traffic etc. The more frequent the noise, and will start making the noise pulling away from a stop ( going straight) can get it to make the sound sitting in the drive way at about 2600 rpm in park.

Dealer replaced the cat, as it sounded kind of like when a Cat converter is going. Nothing ..
I have taken it to guys I trust ,can't find it , dealer can't find it only guessing , they think Trans is going.But they said it is only a guess. As of now I have over 50hours of piad diagnostic work in this problem.
Had a gentleman who builds trans pull samples of all my lubes. check them for any signs of metal wear etc. . Nothing ,came back fine.
Anybody have any ideas? Considering driving it till something pops, then at least I know what needs to be fixed, but hate to that as well..

 

[insane_sc]

the title made me think this was a skateboarding question. I have no clue, but have you had the power steering flushed? Alignment good? Brake calipers guid pins greased so they release, thats all I got.

 

[slimerdogs]

Fill in your info when you get a chance. It does sound like you are having a motor or trans mount that is failing. It will give a noise in the car when it hits metal to metal. Check all your rubber bushings around there as all it takes is one coming out or getting loose to produce a noise like that.

 

[MikeQBF]

I would be looking at the torque converter. That it does it parked is of concern, as is increasing frequency under heat stress conditions. If you have not replaced A/T fluid with geniune Honda fluid with a complete flush, then do so.

 

[uther]

well no one can find the problem STILL!:x Dealer thinks it's a trans going bad they are 70% . Trans is $3000 . Thats a heck of a lot of $$$ on a 70% guess..

That it makes the sound ( for the most part ) under throttle and only turning let is odd.. Only when it gets really hot will it do it any other time...

 

[psschmied]

That's a lot of money to spend on a vague guess- period. A "transmission going bad" isn't a diagnosis, but even if it were, the ENTIRE transmission can't be failing.

If it were your kid, not your car, and you had to pay out of pocket for a $3000 operation, would you blindly accept such a vague opinion from your family doctor without confirming tests? An inspection of the original fluid drained during the first fluid change should have evidence of unusual mechanical wear,abrasion or overheating from abnormal metal to metal contact.

I'm not saying that dealers aren't honest or that their mechanics aren't competent, but auto dealers are working in a bad economic situation right now. New car sales have dropped radically, their service/repair operations income is all that is keeping their doors open. That puts undue pressure on them to recommend simple major unit replacement instead of time consuming repairs; they can bolt-in rebuilt units from Honda or transmission re-manufacturers, mark them up and and free up their mechanics for more work.

If the sound IS from the transmission, a good transmission specialist should be able to localize a grinding mechanical sound to a particular sub-system of the transmission before tearing the AT down for repair. That would help you make a better informed decision whether to repair or replace the unit.

Consider going to an independent mechanic who is a certified transmission specialist for a second opinion. If you insist on having a dealer do the work, please go to at least one other dealer.

 

[uther]

Well it's been a quite a journey but , a trans builder I trust found the issue after he got the noise pinpointed. He cracked the trans case found two bearings failing. So two bearings , all new gaskets etc. And the E will be back on the road next week!!

 

[barryscott]

Hey, glad you found the problem.;-)

 

[Generation "X" Dad]

Well it's been a quite a journey but , a trans builder I trust found the issue after he got the noise pinpointed. He cracked the trans case found two bearings failing. So two bearings , all new gaskets etc. And the E will be back on the road next week!!

Glad you found the problem. So were the differential bearings failing?

 

[uther]

well folks after a trans rebuild, Guess what didn't fix it!!!!!!!!!!!:-x:x

Still going left under throttle it still makes tha same noise!! Dealer told me they have no idea. Glad I didn't pay for a new trans..

No idea what to do next..

 

[uther]

If any club members are local to me ( bethlehem Pa. ) I'd be up to let some one else have a listen as well.

 

[MikeQBF]

A thought, something I had on another vehicle long ago - exhaust heat shield rattle. Sometimes a heat shield will bust a fastening point and create a grinding sound that will only occur at certain combinations of RPM and vehicle position. The one I recall being such a big pain-in-the-behind was permanently fixed with a giant-sized hose clamp... once I finally found it.

You and the dealer have undoubtedly thought of this, too, but at this point checking it again wouldn't hurt.

PS - you already mentioned replacing the cat. IIRC there are two cats, the non-obvious one a pre-cat descending from the engine. Check it and the heat shields around it.

 

[Generation "X" Dad]

Not sure if this is the source of your problem but the K24 engines in the CRVs have an issue with the right (passenger) side upper engine mount halves (the half bolted to the engine and the half bolted to the unibody) rubbing against each other. It made an almost grinding/squeaking noise when turning left because the engine would shift slightly to the right, causing the two surfaces to contact and rub together. Since the CRV and Elements share common engines, perhaps try looking at the upper right mount and seeing if there's any surfaces which show signs or wear (shininess, rusting or both).

It's hard to describe on here without a picture where the two points contact but if you are standing in front of the vehicle looking at the mount, imagine it as a cube. The area where the two surfaces that rub together are located at the bottom underneath in the middle. If you look with a bright enough trouble light, you will see what looks like a stops or tabs coming off of the top part of the mount that bolts to the engine. This tab touches the other part of the mount which is bolted/welded to the unibody of the engine bay.

To remedy the problem, you have to unweight the engine using a floor jack on the oil pan (place a block of wood in the floorjack cup to protect the pan) or an engine hoist) to loosen the mount, then using a bar and being careful not to damage the VTC solenoid or any other part of the engine, pry the engine to the left and hold it there and tighten the engine mount to spec. Sometimes if you may need to loosen the left (driver) side transmission mount and have a partner pry the engine to the left while you torque down the transmission mount. Normally just repositioning the engine mount does the trick but for stubborn ones you might have to do the transmission mount.

Again, without hearing or road testing your Element I can't say this is your issue. But your eyes work for free and your spare time needs to be filled anyways so why not check something off your troubleshooting list

 

[uther]

Thanks for the info on the mount , I'll take a look. At this point I'll try d*^n near anything.

The dealer wants to try putting the other tires I had on ( snows) back on and see if that changes anything. Huh?

After that they told me that they won't know what else to do.
Geez, whata work ethic...

 

[Generation "X" Dad]

Thanks for the info on the mount , I'll take a look. At this point I'll try d*^n near anything.

The dealer wants to try putting the other tires I had on ( snows) back on and see if that changes anything. Huh?

After that they told me that they won't know what else to do.
Geez, whata work ethic...

Ya it's hard to say without hearing it. I know we had a CRV that had a whining noise in the rear diff under decceleration (had the fluid changed and even went so far as putting a new rear diff in) and guess what ended up fixing the problem?

Yup...all new tires. I didn't work on the vehicle (I was the lube tech back then and wasn't signed up yet) but I was in the bay next to the tech who did work on it. Totally floored all of us that's for sure.

If the tires worked, it would be funny but in all honesty wouldn't be that much of a surprise .

 

[Xyster101]

It would not hurt to try the tires.

I would jack the car up on 2 jack stands in the front, start the car and work it till it makes the noise. Then while under it, or in the hood area, find the noise. You still have not told us where the sound is and what you have to do to find it.
Does it happen in Park?
Does it happen when the wheels are turning?
Does it happen at idle or only 2,500rpm?
Does it happen when the wheels are not turning while the brakes are depressed and you turn the steering wheel?
Can you hear the area it comes from? Under the dash, the right side of the engine, around the cat, up by the exhaust manifold?
I had a heat shield break the welds that held it on with only 40,000 miles on a civic. It would rattle at certain RPMs until I torn it off.

 

[DCbox]

Hey everyone , I had started a post " steering rack " a few weeks a go but as the problem has grown and No one can find whats wrong with me E I'm reposting a new.
It's a 2004 EX 4wd automatic.74K All service has been done including rear diff changes.

Our E started grinding making a left turn only on throttle. Checked axle, cv etc all good, installed wheel bearing , still there.
The hotter the car gets, stop and go traffic etc. The more frequent the noise, and will start making the noise pulling away from a stop ( going straight) can get it to make the sound sitting in the drive way at about 2600 rpm in park.

Dealer replaced the cat, as it sounded kind of like when a Cat converter is going. Nothing ..

I have taken it to guys I trust ,can't find it , dealer can't findit only guessing , they think Trans is going. Had a gentleman who builds trans pull samples of all my lubes. check them for any signs . Nothing ,came back fine.
Anybody have any ideas? Considering driving it till something pops, then at least I know what needs to be fixed, but hate to that as well..:-(

I had the same issues, thinking my struts were shot, I took it to Sears, found out that two of my mounts trans and engine were broken. After ordering the parts it took less than 2 hours, and now no more grinding.

 

[Jackson49]

I had the same issues, thinking my struts were shot, I took it to Sears, found out that two of my mounts trans and engine were broken. After ordering the parts it took less than 2 hours, and now no more grinding.

Thanks for the great post with the pictures.