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Here comes Toyota/Scion with some competition...
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the element definitely has a more "off the beaten path" target audience, where this one has a more urban audience in mind. i dont think the buying demographics will overlap too much, although i agree that the younger urban crowd might go for this one.
I saw an xB at an intersection last week. They drove through and I was staring at their box while they were staring at my box. I thought it looked a lot better in person than in the pictures. It definitely looked smaller--why don't they show any people in/near the cars on the Scion site?
I don't think I'd get one--I like the "it's a big duffel bag on wheels" feel of the Element--but they sound reasonably priced and more in the range of what younger buyers can afford.
I don't think I'd get one--I like the "it's a big duffel bag on wheels" feel of the Element--but they sound reasonably priced and more in the range of what younger buyers can afford.
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Other than the general boxy look, I don't think that the two vehicles have much in common. From what I can tell, the xB is classed as a wagon, not a SUV. It's only available in 2WD, and doesn't seem to have much to set it apart other than the appearance. (Well, okay, the price isn't bad.)
When you go to the Scion website and chose their Compare feature, the other 2 models that come up for comparison are the Mazda Protege and the Suzuki Aerio, not the E! Does that mean that Toyota doesn't consider this a competitor for the E?
When you go to the Scion website and chose their Compare feature, the other 2 models that come up for comparison are the Mazda Protege and the Suzuki Aerio, not the E! Does that mean that Toyota doesn't consider this a competitor for the E?
i just downloaded a brochure for both models of the scion.
i believe toyota makes an equally sound car.
both models of the scion offer a 4 cylinder w/108 horsepower.
there's a huge difference between 108 of the scion and the 160 that the honda offers.
i can't image having 5 people in the scion trying to go up a hill....they might have to get out and push.
only major difference seems to be that the scion seats 5. and has a smaller fuel tank (11.9 vs. 15.9 of the element)
i believe toyota makes an equally sound car.
both models of the scion offer a 4 cylinder w/108 horsepower.
there's a huge difference between 108 of the scion and the 160 that the honda offers.
i can't image having 5 people in the scion trying to go up a hill....they might have to get out and push.
only major difference seems to be that the scion seats 5. and has a smaller fuel tank (11.9 vs. 15.9 of the element)
[quote:eb393f3f4b="foxtail"]Other than the general boxy look, I don't think that the two vehicles have much in common. From what I can tell, the xB is classed as a wagon, not a SUV. It's only available in 2WD, and doesn't seem to have much to set it apart other than the appearance. (Well, okay, the price isn't bad.)
When you go to the Scion website and chose their Compare feature, the other 2 models that come up for comparison are the Mazda Protege and the Suzuki Aerio, not the E! Does that mean that Toyota doesn't consider this a competitor for the E?[/quote:eb393f3f4b]
Maybe Toyota won't mention the E on their page because people considering the xB will flock to the E instead. =)
When you go to the Scion website and chose their Compare feature, the other 2 models that come up for comparison are the Mazda Protege and the Suzuki Aerio, not the E! Does that mean that Toyota doesn't consider this a competitor for the E?[/quote:eb393f3f4b]
Maybe Toyota won't mention the E on their page because people considering the xB will flock to the E instead. =)
You are right, there is a huge difference. The scion power/wieght/fuel efficiency is HUGELY better than the E.
Scion is faster than E 0-60.
Scion is damn near 1k lbs lighter.
Scion gets mid 30s mpg.
E > Scion xb in style.
E > Scion xb utility.
E > Scion xb in price. Not Good.
E < Scion xb in MPG.
E < Scion xb in power to wieght ratio.
Oh. And 4 independantly opening doors are more refined than E's current set-up.
Since ya brought it up =D
Oh.. i still plan on buying an E. Someday. =P
[quote:89426fbebd="3N00B"]
Oh. And 4 independently opening doors are more refined than E's current set-up.
[/quote:89426fbebd]
I do agree with most of your points, but take issue with the one about the doors.
The four independent doors (with rather small back openings) are really a plus only if you're planning to routinely carry 3 or more people. I almost never do that. The E's doors allow me to quickly and easily access the back when I toss my jacket/bag/whatever back there and opening the clamshell door is easier than opening a back door that is independent from the front door since I'm already getting in or out of the car.
And when I do have backseat passengers, they have pretty easy access. If they'd built conventional doors for the back, they'd almost certainly have had to make the E longer. For me that would be a nightmare (ever tried to parallel park in SF?). The clamshell doors allowed for a shorter back door and a a shorter vehicle overall. And one of my favorite things about the E is it's compact exterior dimensions.
Oh. And 4 independently opening doors are more refined than E's current set-up.
[/quote:89426fbebd]
I do agree with most of your points, but take issue with the one about the doors.
The four independent doors (with rather small back openings) are really a plus only if you're planning to routinely carry 3 or more people. I almost never do that. The E's doors allow me to quickly and easily access the back when I toss my jacket/bag/whatever back there and opening the clamshell door is easier than opening a back door that is independent from the front door since I'm already getting in or out of the car.
And when I do have backseat passengers, they have pretty easy access. If they'd built conventional doors for the back, they'd almost certainly have had to make the E longer. For me that would be a nightmare (ever tried to parallel park in SF?). The clamshell doors allowed for a shorter back door and a a shorter vehicle overall. And one of my favorite things about the E is it's compact exterior dimensions.
It deffinately has the Element beat for sound system. Built in MP3 playback on CDs, optional satelite radio, and an optional in dash 6 CD changer. But it does have less wattage. Only 160 compared to 270.
http://www.scion.com/drive/sound_system/drive_xa_sound.html
http://www.scion.com/drive/sound_system/drive_xa_sound.html
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I have to admit that if it were not for the fact that the xb won't be available in Alaska until summer of next year, I would probably go for it instead. I have been almost obsessed with buying an E for a few months now, but with dealer pricing how it is up here, I would love to just walk in and be able to buy the car for what it says on the windshield (like saturn), which is what Scion will be like. E seems hardier, but really everyone seems to agree it has no off-road capability so that doesnt matter much. Having not seen one I can't really be sure, but the xb seems to have quite a bit of inside space too.
Here is a link to some really good pics. The first 20 or so are the xa and xc. There are some great pics of the interior with the seats in almost every configuration.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=156
Here is a link to some really good pics. The first 20 or so are the xa and xc. There are some great pics of the interior with the seats in almost every configuration.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=156
If it is only offered in 2WD I would not even consider it because I want a vehicle with the ability to handle the weather. And I am not talking about off road. I would use a Wrangler for that. Both the Element and the Scion have that new and different appeal but when it get down to it when you need 4WD and you don't have it , nothing else will substitute.... oh okay maybe a towtruck. 4WD is not like a sound system which can be upgraded after you buy the vehicle..you either have it or you don't and I want to have it.
Very funny to compare this little scion with an element... :roll:
Height: scion 64.6 " element 71.5 "
Width: Scion 66.5" element 71.5 "
length Scion 155.3 " element 169 "
The Scion is just a boxy echo with the same motor, to be competitive, this vehicle must be a lot cheaper than my "big" element :lol:
Also, with a 1.5 liter, this Scion will mist torque in many situation....
It's just good for city driving like the Honda city :wink:
Height: scion 64.6 " element 71.5 "
Width: Scion 66.5" element 71.5 "
length Scion 155.3 " element 169 "
The Scion is just a boxy echo with the same motor, to be competitive, this vehicle must be a lot cheaper than my "big" element :lol:
Also, with a 1.5 liter, this Scion will mist torque in many situation....
It's just good for city driving like the Honda city :wink:
Power to weight ratio:
Scion B 2425 Lbs/108 HP = 22.5 Lbs/HP
Element 3450 Lbs/160 HP =21.5 Lbs/HP (Lower number is better
)
Regarding acceleration, my 5 manual speed element take 8.5 seconds from 0-60 Mph compare to 9.5 seconds for Toyota echo, with more weight, the Scion B will be slowler than the echo... You can'not do miracle with so small engine :roll:
Now, regarding the bigger size of the element and the echo engine of the Scion, it's like to compare a Toyota echo to a Honda Accord :roll: :roll:
Oh yes, the Echo is more fuel effiency than the Accord :twisted:
I keeped my Civic hatchback before to change it for a Scion B :wink:
Scion B 2425 Lbs/108 HP = 22.5 Lbs/HP
Element 3450 Lbs/160 HP =21.5 Lbs/HP (Lower number is better
)Regarding acceleration, my 5 manual speed element take 8.5 seconds from 0-60 Mph compare to 9.5 seconds for Toyota echo, with more weight, the Scion B will be slowler than the echo... You can'not do miracle with so small engine :roll:
Now, regarding the bigger size of the element and the echo engine of the Scion, it's like to compare a Toyota echo to a Honda Accord :roll: :roll:
Oh yes, the Echo is more fuel effiency than the Accord :twisted:
I keeped my Civic hatchback before to change it for a Scion B :wink:
I too think there's little to compare. However, I do think that the xB will fair better with Honda's target Element market, if just for the simple rasons that is it cheaper and smaller. I'm sure Honda pretty happy to have accidentally created a cross-generational vehicle though.
Wonder what the Scion Xb torque numbers look like. Bet they are pretty wimpy given disp. and horsepower numbers. Also, you can do a lot to improve performance with engine management technology, but when do too much with too small of a displacment, something has to give--either long term reliability or longevity.
Finally, 1,000 lbs is a big weight difference. The Element did very well in the Autoweek slalom test thanks in part to its rather low center of gravity. There is no way you could pull that much weight out of a chassis of (VERY roughly) the same size and not have the center of gravity go higher, and probably have the weight distribution move forward as well. It will be interesting to see results from those kinds of tests with the Sciion Xb as well.
yelapa
Finally, 1,000 lbs is a big weight difference. The Element did very well in the Autoweek slalom test thanks in part to its rather low center of gravity. There is no way you could pull that much weight out of a chassis of (VERY roughly) the same size and not have the center of gravity go higher, and probably have the weight distribution move forward as well. It will be interesting to see results from those kinds of tests with the Sciion Xb as well.
yelapa
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I love my E....and wouldn't trade it for anything else on the market.
I do think that the Xb will fair well on the market due to it's price and the Toyota name behind it.
Honestly if I didn't own a Honda I would own a Toyota on reputation alone!
I do think that the Xb looks a bit too ghetto for my taste....but hey Pimps up, Ho's down!
And well I don't mean to be selfish, but if people want to go buy this instaed of the E....more power to them, that just means one less E on the road! Beacuse as much as I love the E I don't want it to turn into the Beattle of the year!
I do think that the Xb will fair well on the market due to it's price and the Toyota name behind it.
Honestly if I didn't own a Honda I would own a Toyota on reputation alone!
I do think that the Xb looks a bit too ghetto for my taste....but hey Pimps up, Ho's down!
And well I don't mean to be selfish, but if people want to go buy this instaed of the E....more power to them, that just means one less E on the road! Beacuse as much as I love the E I don't want it to turn into the Beattle of the year!
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