You can always go to www.kbb.com to find out the invoice price of the element. Personally I wouldn't pay more than $100 over invoice. If you threaten to walk out, the salesman will probably go down even more. It usually all depends on how high the demand is in your area for the element, and how many they have in stock. Don't worry about the salesman not making much of a commission, we still get spiffs, bonuses, etc. A deal at cost is better than no deal at all. If you want to save even more money as far as accessories, I would look at the handaaccessories.com website before I bought anything from the dealer.