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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 2005 EX with almost 200k highway miles with a manual transmission. Very recently, within the last 3-4 times I drove the vehicle, the car was difficult to put into gear, but then operated normally. Today, I could not put the vehicle into any gear. After reading some forums, the hydraulic clutch fluid seems full and normal (slight coloration). I can put the vehicle into gear with the engine off without issue - but not when the engine is running. Am I looking at a new clutch / transmission, or perhaps just a broken clip or something? Advice appreciated.
 

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It does sound like the clutch linkage isn't moving through its travel. A master or slave cylinder could be bad without affecting the fluid level.

> difficult to put into gear, but then operated normally
This raises the possibility that a foreign object (e.g., a piece of broken spring from the clutch plate) occasionally gets stuck between the clutch plate and pressure plate (or flywheel). Any unusual noises?

It could also be that you were able to pump up sufficent pressure with the failing mc to make it work. Hard to tell without working the pedal.
 

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Sounds like worn shifter linkage to me.

Dom
 

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It sounds like you have a clutch pressure plate issue. When they get old they could fail at one of the pivot points causing the plate to partially not release. You will have creep going forward with the engine running and clutch depressed when it gets worse. New clutch time. The other thing is the slave not extending all the way out to release the clutch. Try pumping the clutch pedal a few time and see if it will go into gear after that. If it does that would point to the hydraulic system malfunction I took out my clutch after 100.000 miles and the plate fingers already had wear in them where the T.O. bearing rides but the disc still looked new. Had a tranny boo boo after a missed shift.:-( By the way, where are you located??
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Estimate

I received an estimate from a local (non-Honda) dealership today. They believe it's the pilot bearing, and recommend to replace the clutch and flywheel.

"Tech checked operation of the clutch, slave cylinder appears to be ok. Vehicle was shifting ok at time of inspection, however tech noted pedal feels very stiff and he can hear a squeek-type noise from the clutch area, recommends replace clutch and flywheel as manufacturer does not recommend resurfacing of flywheel on this vehicle. Cost to perform repairs is approximately $1590."

The clutch doesn't feel any different to me than normal, and the vehicle does seem to have the "squeeky clutch pedal" problem some others have reported. I wasn't convinced by the diagnosis, although I admit it may be hard to tell exactly what's wrong without disassembly. I wish the $110 it cost me for the estimate provided a better diagnosis. Any other opinions? Should I repair this right away, or is it ok to drive?

KBB values this vehicle between $5500 and $7500, so there is a big question in my mind whether to make this repair or simply sell it.
 

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Please fill in your profile, Pokeyzilla.

Hard to say at this remove, but I don't see how a bad pilot bearing would ... bear on your problem.

::speaking from experience with other cars::
The transmission's nose shaft fits into a hole in the center of the flywheel. The pilot bearing keeps the two in line as they spin either together (clutch engaged) or independently (disengaged). AFAIK the relationship between the shaft, bearing, and flywheel is basically unchanged until it's time to separate the transmission and bellhousing (or whatever the equivalent is called on a FWD car) for a clutch replacement.

Are you sure they didn't say "throwout bearing"?

Regardless, if the master and slave cylinder are known to be good, then whatever is bad is inside, and will have to come out. Replacing the clutch assembly, throwout bearing, and pilot bearing; and resurfacing the flywheel, if necessary (I can't verify your shop's insistence that Honda calls for a new flywheel every time), are probably indicated, since you don't want to pull all that stuff apart again in the future.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable about this than I will chime in!

As for driving it, why risk getting stuck?

Do get a second opinion; I hope it won't set you back another $110. How much does your local Honda dealer charge for a half-hour of diagnostics?
 

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Please fill in your profile, Pokeyzilla.

Hard to say at this remove, but I don't see how a bad pilot bearing would ... bear on your problem.

::speaking from experience with other cars::
The transmission's nose shaft fits into a hole in the center of the flywheel. The pilot bearing keeps the two in line as they spin either together (clutch engaged) or independently (disengaged). AFAIK the relationship between the shaft, bearing, and flywheel is basically unchanged until it's time to separate the transmission and bellhousing (or whatever the equivalent is called on a FWD car) for a clutch replacement.

Are you sure they didn't say "throwout bearing"?

Regardless, if the master and slave cylinder are known to be good, then whatever is bad is inside, and will have to come out. Replacing the clutch assembly, throwout bearing, and pilot bearing; and resurfacing the flywheel, if necessary (I can't verify your shop's insistence that Honda calls for a new flywheel every time), are probably indicated, since you don't want to pull all that stuff apart again in the future.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable about this than I will chime in!

As for driving it, why risk getting stuck?

Do get a second opinion; I hope it won't set you back another $110. How much does your local Honda dealer charge for a half-hour of diagnostics?
We have a TSB up here in Canada that indicates maching the flywheel is not an approved repair.
 

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Just to let you know there is no pilot bearing in the E just a bushing so I can't see that causing the problem but no matter what it will still need replacement along with the clutch. Too bad you are not in this area as I have friend that owns a garage and changed out my trans and clutch for $500 labor and I got the clutch kit for under 200 from a auto supply in your area.
 

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why hasn't anyone linked him to this thread yet?

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54950

this has happened a few times and it's always the same result. a broken spring retainer. replace your clutch and you're good to go. see is you know someone mechanically inclined that can do it cheaper than the dealership. you can get the clutch kit from amazon for pretty cheap. total job with parts and labor ended up costing me $500, not $1500 like many have been quoted. good luck.
 

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The squeeky clutch pedal problem is originating from the clutch master cylinder - replacing the master cylinder will remedy the squeeky noise but as far as I've been able to tell from others here who have had and remedied this problem, the squeek is annoying but no defininitive feedback that is was otherwise problematic or a sign of pending master cylinder failure. As a result, I suspect the squeeky clutch pedal is not related to your clutch operational problems.

As for your clutch problems, Is this the original clutch or has it been replaced once before (and if so, at what mileage)? My best guess based on the descriptions is that you have a pressure plate problem of some sort. Regardless of what the problem is, it's going to involve removing the tranny, so a new clutch is in order. As for the flywheel, I haven't dealt with my E clutch, so not sure about the resurfacing question - certainly it's what I've always done with other cars where I've replaced the clutch. I guess I'd check the price of a new OEM flywheel from one of the online vendors to see what sort of expense I'm looking at - flywheels can be fairly cheap or really expensive...just depends on the car, so I'd look into this first and it may help my decision. If they are fairly cheap, I'd just replace it, but if they are expensive, I'd investigate the resurfacing question further.

Also, I would not take the car back to the place that gave you the estimate - to charge you $110 for a seemingly worthless assessment of your problems and then quote you that kind of expense to replace your clutch is absurd.
 

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The squeeky clutch pedal problem is originating from the clutch master cylinder - replacing the master cylinder will remedy the squeeky noise but as far as I've been able to tell from others here who have had and remedied this problem, the squeek is annoying but no defininitive feedback that is was otherwise problematic or a sign of pending master cylinder failure. As a result, I suspect the squeeky clutch pedal is not related to your clutch operational problems.

As for your clutch problems, Is this the original clutch or has it been replaced once before (and if so, at what mileage)? My best guess based on the descriptions is that you have a pressure plate problem of some sort. Regardless of what the problem is, it's going to involve removing the tranny, so a new clutch is in order. As for the flywheel, I haven't dealt with my E clutch, so not sure about the resurfacing question - certainly it's what I've always done with other cars where I've replaced the clutch. I guess I'd check the price of a new OEM flywheel from one of the online vendors to see what sort of expense I'm looking at - flywheels can be fairly cheap or really expensive...just depends on the car, so I'd look into this first and it may help my decision. If they are fairly cheap, I'd just replace it, but if they are expensive, I'd investigate the resurfacing question further.

Also, I would not take the car back to the place that gave you the estimate - to charge you $110 for a seemingly worthless assessment of your problems and then quote you that kind of expense to replace your clutch is absurd.
I agree 100% with your assement. Most likely the clutch disc, pressure plate is well beyond worn. And with the miles the hydraulic system should be replaced.

What I do not agree with.

A person had to evaluate the condition, road test to verify, estimate the job and get prices for the parts. . Do you expect all that for less than 1 hour of their time, and then have the job refused? I have no idea what you do for a living, but I'm sure you expect to be paid for everything you do even if it involves "just take a look and tell me what ya think". That is absurd. Try that next time you go to your doctor or the even better the ER.
 

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What I do not agree with.

A person had to evaluate the condition, road test to verify, estimate the job and get prices for the parts. . Do you expect all that for less than 1 hour of their time, and then have the job refused? I have no idea what you do for a living, but I'm sure you expect to be paid for everything you do even if it involves "just take a look and tell me what ya think". That is absurd. Try that next time you go to your doctor or the even better the ER.
I never in my life have been charged for a repair estimate and I've owned and had countless repairs on many a car. I also have rarely not had the person who gave me the estimate then do the repairs - I suppose occasionally when the estimate was way beyond what I could afford at the time but 95% of the time I've gone ahead with the repairs. The estimate was always free, or at least free on paper and it is how the repair person generated the work from me. Sure it takes work to do the estimate but this is a time investment toward securing work (and hence income).

Do I expect to be paid for everything I do at my work? No, I often at work have had to write proposals, pitch jobs to prospective clients etc., none of which directly led to being paid but rather were investments toward trying to secure work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
What I do not agree with.

A person had to evaluate the condition, road test to verify, estimate the job and get prices for the parts. . Do you expect all that for less than 1 hour of their time, and then have the job refused? I have no idea what you do for a living, but I'm sure you expect to be paid for everything you do even if it involves "just take a look and tell me what ya think". That is absurd. Try that next time you go to your doctor or the even better the ER.
I tend to agree with you. In fact, I'd be happy to pay for a good estimate, even though most places don't charge me. My point was related to the fact that I felt this was a poor estimate. The problem was intermittent, and without being able to replicate the problem, they simply went for a total replacement.
 
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