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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was eating lunch while on a road trip with my wife, daughter and our dog lucky. We were at a mcdonalds when I noticed a worker walking around asking if anyone had a dog in their car. I told her I did and she told me that customers are complaning that I left my dog in the car and that they called the police because it's illigal in the state of washington to leave your dog in a car.

1. It was 8pm and about 70F
2. All the windows including the sun roof was open
3. The car was still cold from driving with the AC on
4. Lucky had cold water that we had just put in a bowl in the back for him

It made me so mad! I looked right at the lady that was complaining and she said "dogs have rights too" I replyed "so does that cow your eating" and I left in disgust.

My point is if you eat meat dont go calling the cops on people for having their dog in their car! I'm sure the ride to the slaughter house wasent an air conditioned joy ride and neither is being hung upsidedown and killed. If it was some pita person that happened to be picketting mcdonalds well than ok they actualy back up what they say but if your there to stuff your fat face with assorted chicken and cow parts dont preach at me!
 

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.. they called the police because it's illigal in the state of washington to leave your dog in a car. ...!
While I have seen warnings about leaving dogs in a hot car, I have never come across a comprehensive ban this. I wonder if they could prove their assertion. There are animal cruelty laws, but not a specific mention, that I can find, regarding cars.
 

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and ur ranting on a thread with passionate pet lovers - receipe for trouble (like that last debate on pet acqusition)......

here a lil good piece of info i found googling

"It takes only minutes for a pet left in a vehicle on a warm day to succumb to heatstroke and suffocation. Most people don't realize how hot it can get in a parked car on a balmy day. However, on a 78 degree day, temperatures in a car parked in the shade can exceed 90 degrees -- and hit a scorching 160 degrees if parked in the sun!

Even when the outside air temperature is in the 60s, temperatures inside some vehicles can reach the danger zone on bright, sunny days. So many experts recommend not to leave pets or children in parked cars even for short periods if the temperature is in the 60s or higher.

Rolling down a window or parking in the shade doesn't guarantee protection either, since temperatures can still climb into the danger zone. And if the window is rolled down sufficiently, the pet can escape. Plus if a passer-by claims he or she was bitten through the car window, the pet owner will be liable.

What about leaving the dog in the car with the air-conditioning running? Many people do this, but tragedy can strike -- and it has. For example, in 2003, a police dog in Texas died after the air-conditioning in the patrol car shut down and began blowing hot air. The air system's compressor kicked off because the engine got too hot. Many cars, including modern models with computerized functions, are prone to the same problem. In August 2004, a North Carolina couple lost two of their beloved dogs, and nearly lost their third dogs, as result of a similar failure. They had left bowls of water and ice in the car, and the air-conditioning on, during their shopping trip of less than 30 minutes.

Animals are not able to sweat like humans do. Dogs cool themselves by panting and by sweating through their paws. If they have only overheated air to breathe, animals can collapse, suffer brain damage and possibly die of heatstroke. Just 15 minutes can be enough for an animal's body temperature to climb from a normal 102.5 to deadly levels that will damage the nervous and cardiovascular systems, often leaving the animal comatose, dehydrated and at risk of permanent impairment or death."


It is against the law in most jurisdictions to leave a pet unattended in a standing or parked motor vehicle in a manner that endangers the health or safety of the animal.

Here is an excerpt from the Cruelty to Animals section of the Maryland Legal Code:

(a) A person may not leave a cat or dog unattended in a standing or parked motor vehicle in a manner that endangers the health or safety of the cat or dog.
(b) A person may use reasonable force to remove from a motor vehicle a cat or dog left in the vehicle in violation of the provisions of subsection (a) of this section if the person is:
(1) a law enforcement officer;
(2) a public safety employee of the State or of a local governing body;
(3) an animal control officer under the jurisdiction of the State or a local governing body;
(4) an officer of a society or association, incorporated under the laws of this State for the prevention of cruelty to animals, authorized to make arrests under the provisions of Art. 27, � 63 of the code; or
(5) a volunteer or professional of a fire and rescue service.
(c) A person described in subsection (b) of this section may not be held liable for any damages directly resulting from actions taken under the provisions of subsection (b) of this section. Transportation Article 21-1004.1.


and here's one from the West Coast:

Q: Is there a legal restriction on how long a dog can be left in a parked car? What about in a car parked in a parking garage? What's the penalty?

A: "There is no law regarding the time a dog can be left in a parked vehicle," State Patrol trooper Dan McDonald said. "However, if the conditions warrant, the owner can be charged with Animal Cruelty under RCW 16.52.207."

That section of the Revised Code of Washington states the following:


(1) A person is guilty of animal cruelty in the second degree if, under circumstances not amounting to first degree animal cruelty, the person knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence inflicts unnecessary suffering or pain upon an animal.

(2) An owner of an animal is guilty of animal cruelty in the second degree if, under circumstances not amounting to first degree animal cruelty, the owner knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence:

(a) Fails to provide the animal with necessary shelter, rest, sanitation, space, or medical attention and the animal suffers unnecessary or unjustifiable physical pain as a result of the failure;
(b) Under circumstances not amounting to animal cruelty in the second degree under (c) of this subsection, abandons the animal; or
(c) Abandons the animal and (i) as a result of being abandoned, the animal suffers bodily harm; or (ii) abandoning the animal creates an imminent and substantial risk that the animal will suffer substantial bodily harm.
(3)(a) Animal cruelty in the second degree under subsection (1), (2)(a), or (2)(b) of this section is a misdemeanor.
(b) Animal cruelty in the second degree under subsection (2)(c) of this section is a gross misdemeanor.
(4) In any prosecution of animal cruelty in the second degree under subsection (1) or (2)(a) of this section, it shall be an affirmative defense, if established by the defendant by a preponderance of the evidence, that the defendant's failure was due to economic distress beyond the defendant's control.

Human law enforcement officers at the Seattle Animal Shelter say that on hot spring and summer days, they can be swamped with calls about animals trapped in cars.

Animal shelter staff says that even with car windows slightly open, the buildup of heat inside a car can top 160 degrees in a few minutes with a 65 degree temperature outside.


Last time I heard in Toronto, ON, Canada.... the guy that left his dog in the car was assulted by by-standers sympathizing the dogs..... so all i could say is you got off very lucky!
 

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and ur ranting on a thread with passionate pet lovers - receipe for trouble (like that last debate on pet acqusition).....
Did you read points 1-4 the OP made? None of the examples you listed had a chance of happening in this case.

The fat McDonald's lady just needed something to bitch about. She needs to mind her own business as far as I'm concerned.
 

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points 1-4 dont mean anything....if heat is building up... i'm guessing u didnt read the inital part of the research either that windows, AC and water didnt do what it was intended for.....

i sat with my dogs in an E with windows opened before in spring and in fall, after AC is turned off, with water/ice etc....give it a try....heat builds up pretty quickly
 

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But given the circumstances - in particular the evening hours, and the typically short stop at a fast-food place - there is no evidence that this dog was in danger. The law talks about actual endangerment, not imagined endangerment.

I exercise due care when leaving my dog in the Element. Fortunately no busybody has noticed or complained. The fact that my dog sits quietly behind the tinted rear windows has something to do with it. Still I see (and hear) plenty of dogs in cars - in the north burbs of Seattle - and have rarely, if ever, seen one that I would be concerned about.
 

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8PM, windows down, Washington state, 70 degrees outside.....unless you're blasting the outside of the car with propane heaters, or you parked your car on a lava field, that car isn't heating up.
 

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i only let them sit alone in early spring and late fall..... during the summer and winter later mths all trips planned must have human superivison (usually means 2+ persons) or pets must be escorted on/off vehicle..... person sits in the car with dogs so any prob we could react immediately......
 

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I have 11 years of experience with my dog, and 6 of those with the Element. I know from experience when and how the car heats up, and that into account.

"It takes only minutes for a pet left in a vehicle on a warm day to succumb to heatstroke and suffocation. Most people don't realize how hot it can get in a parked car on a balmy day. However, on a 78 degree day, temperatures in a car parked in the shade can exceed 90 degrees -- and hit a scorching 160 degrees if parked in the sun!...
In this case of the OP, the actual temperatures in the car are what mattered, not internet quotes. Shouldn't we accept the OP's assessment that the dog was not in danger, as opposed to imagining circumstances in which that lady at MM was right? The fact that he gave details about the circumstances meant the he was observant, and quite capable of exercising good judgment.
 

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That would be mortifying. Pity they didn't try to locate you before calling the police, but they may have been afraid of a confrontation. In this day and age, that's understandable.

Were you able to see your car from where you were sitting in McDonald's? I always keep line of sight with the car when I'm on the road because I worry about Gidget being stolen.

Will take you at your word that your dog was in no peril. But if I think a dog is in danger I'll do what I think is right for that dog, even if I'm in the middle of a quarter pounder with cheese.

There is heightened awareness these days of the fact that a car in the sun in moderate temperatures -- even with windows open -- can quickly become a lethal furnace for dogs, and children. We've had some sad fatal cases around this area that made headlines -- children as well as dogs.

It was so hot here today and Gidget's so hairy, I may be lucky no one called the police on me for walking her outside. Several commented on "the poor thing."

I won't leave Gidget in the car for more than a bathroom break if it's much over 50 degrees. And even then it can get surprisingly warm surprisingly fast if the Element is in the sun. With windows cracked.

 

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I have 11 years of experience with my dog, and 6 of those with the Element. I know from experience when and how the car heats up, and that into account.



In this case of the OP, the actual temperatures in the car are what mattered, not internet quotes. Shouldn't we accept the OP's assessment that the dog was not in danger, as opposed to imagining circumstances in which that lady at MM was right?
not imagining anything, not blaming OP is dead wrong nor trying to use internet quotes to justify my cause as opposed to the real situation....but knowledge is power and knowing what the potential dangers is equally as critical.....

the MM lady may have misjudged....but equally so could OP may have misjudged the potential dangers of leaving his dog inside at 8pm 70F with some of his own perspective of due dilligence (as per points 1-4) excercised.....

all i'm going to say is rather than blaming the MM lady being dead wrong and hurling insults at her through this page....perhaps OP should go and understand her position as a concerned citizen that has to right to express her concerns through proper communication protocols......

in this day and age...i rather call the cops and to handle even a simple matter myself...because people are so self centered, verbally abusive and physically violent

i'm nt blaming anyone or saying who's wrong and who's right... but try to understand the flip side of the story and excercise some respect! if you dont like what ur hearing "thank you very much" and move on....
 

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All of the points made here are very good, and should be kept in mind when traveling with a pet. In this particular instance, what is missing is a good old dose of common sense. While the spirit of that law is well intended, I think you have to take into account all of the conditions, not just that a dog was left in the car. If the description of the environment was truly accurate, 8 PM, 70 degrees, all windows and sunroof open, then it's fairly safe to conclude that the dog was in no danger. I'm sure the woman who complained was acting out of compassion for a "perceived" animal in distress, however, she didn't use the best judgement in this case.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I can tell you that my dog was fine! It was cooler in the car than common room temp in an office building! I'm sure that just as you said that the lady was concerned but my point is do people not even think. She saw the dog and had to get involved, I just hate people like that. She dident even think if the dog was safe or not she just jumped to enforce her will on someone. Im sure she dident conciously think that but I believe that is the motivation for people like that. As I said before and I realized it in the moment is that if she cares so much for my dogs well being than why dosent she and all of us have the same compation for pigs, cows, chickens?? Theyre still living breathing things. Infact pigs are smarter than dogs and I have seen first hand calves running and playing with each other. My grandpa owns a ranch in Idaho and when they go out to give the cows medicine for pink eye the mother cows will stand infront of their calves and stare at you because they're trying to protect them. Last month I was driving home past a pond and a mother duck was walking across the road with baby ducks following her. The busy road I was on came to a compleat stop to let the family cross. I thought to myself if people care that much about animals and if animals clearly can feel pain, are intelligent and obviously feel love for their children than why do we care about our dogs and cats but choose to murder and eat other animals?? Im not some nutty PITA guy or anything but seriously I dont get it? As I said before the cow burger that both I and this lady were eating came from a cow that was brought to a slaughter house in a non air conditioned truck with no room to move and covered in crap. Do peolple not realize that if you hate when people do bad things to their pets that things 10 times worse are done everyday to the animals that we all eat! Maybe its good this annoying stupid woman got mad at me because I realized that maybe eating meat isent the thing to do if I really care about animals. Do you guys not see that the two are connected?
 

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I guess the next time you go out you'll have to go to the drive-through, that way your dog can make his order...............mine loves Happy Meals:D
dear god.....the smells that would come out of my pointers......hahahaha

pointers + happy meal = spray.
 

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QUOTE:>>>>My point is if you eat meat dont go calling the cops on people for having their dog in their car! I'm sure the ride to the slaughter house wasent an air conditioned joy ride and neither is being hung upsidedown and killed.<<<<

ummm,,, what does eating meat have to do with having a dog you love blister in the car.?.

ahhhh, so you where taking your mutt to the slauterhouse to hang upside-down and killed...

would you leave a child in your car.?.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
QUOTE:>>>>My point is if you eat meat dont go calling the cops on people for having their dog in their car! I'm sure the ride to the slaughter house wasent an air conditioned joy ride and neither is being hung upsidedown and killed.<<<<

ummm,,, what does eating meat have to do with having a dog you love blister in the car.?.

ahhhh, so you where taking your mutt to the slauterhouse to hang upside-down and killed...

would you leave a child in your car.?.


This is where I just stop trying. You obviously dident get what I was trying to say and judging by the last few comments neither did anyone else.
 

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Probably more here understand your point more than you think...but understand vs agree, there be the divide.

Couple of quick comments on your posts:

I understand the frustration of the McD lady possibly being more motivated to become an "enforcer" vs someone making the dog's safety a first priority. Plenty of whistle blowers out there just enjoying making the noise and watching vs actually being part of a constructive effort.

PETA vs PITA: Although many PETA members can become a major PITA

Eating meat while petting your dog: It is definitely a bit of a social discrepancy in what animals are chosen to be friends vs food. Point taken...and sounds like you're doing a bit of soul searching on it.
I myself think back to my favorite 3 legged pet pig who saved my life a couple of times. Why three legged? Well, pig that special you can't eat all at once. (...old farm joke.)
 

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Do you guys not see that the two are connected?
As originally stated in your initial post: no.

I don't think whether someone eats beef is any more relevant to whether they should act to save a dog they believe is in danger than it is relevant to whether they should act to save a child who they believe is in danger.

With your experience in mind, I may be even more careful in the future about leaving Gidget in the car. Though I'm very careful now because my primary concern has always been her being stolen.

You re-phrased the point in your subsequent post to mean something else. I do think regard for animals is a very good reason to not eat meat. If I toured a slaughterhouse, feed lot or meat-packing plant, it could be years before I ate another burger. "60 Minutes" did a segment years ago on chicken processing that caused me to not eat chicken for a year. Now I only get boneless skinless chicken breast which has had the brutality shrinkwrapped away. Ick. Think I'm doing scallops tonight.

"Maybe its good this annoying stupid woman got mad at me because I realized that maybe eating meat isent the thing to do if I really care about animals. Do you guys not see that the two are connected?"


This experience has no doubt been disturbing and instructive. Hopefully it will never happen again. That woman probably will think twice in the future and perhaps try to find the owner before calling the police.

 

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I guess the next time you go out you'll have to go to the drive-through, that way your dog can make his order...............mine loves Happy Meals:D
my dogs are big McD fans....but i tend to limit them to fries and nuggets......
 
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