Honda Element Owners Club banner

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Please - can anyone shed light? It seems like the prices some folks here are getting their E's for are quite a bit lower than Kelley Blue Book. Is that to be expected these days? Or is it still a good measure of reality?

For example, I am interested in an E (07EX) where retail on KBB is showing at ~$21K. Dealer asking (Honda certified) is ~$20K. Private party value ranges from ~17K-$19K. Trade in ~14K-16K.

Folks here have recently gotten essentially the same Honda certified E for $17K-$18K, some even less than $17K. Note that this is well less than KBB retail (dealer) value.

I don't want to (and can't afford to) over pay but I don't want to completely preclude the possibility of a deal either by being out of the realm of reality.

(then there's the matter of fees etc. but let's just stick with straight cost for the moment to keep it apples to apples).

Thanks for any light you can shed!!!!!!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,234 Posts
The Kelly Book is not a Bible, it is a guide line. They supposedly average the prices paid by buyers but some of us are smart enough to offer less.:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Kelly Blue Book is not even close to being accurate on trade-in values. On my F250 KBB is saying $12,500 trade in value, but the most I could get offered at the actual dealer was $8,500. Seriously!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,234 Posts
Kelly Blue Book is not even close to being accurate on trade-in values. On my F250 KBB is saying $12,500 trade in value, but the most I could get offered at the actual dealer was $8,500. Seriously!
Either you aren't trying hard enough or you are deluding yourself on the condition of your truck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Good point Gary, about the figures being averages.
jtraynor - ouch - that must have hurt!
buttermilk, very interesting about NADA - thanks. For this same car, NADA says ~$19K 'clean' retail (vs. KBB $21K), and ~13.7K-15.9K trade-in (the car is quite clean). Gathering private party would of course be somewhere in between.
If they are expecting $19K, that's way more than some folks here have been paying for the same car (a member said they just got one for $17.4K, certified).
So would an offer of $17K be crazy or respectable? (incidentally, I am seeing the same car on Craig's List - granted not Honda certified - with asking price of ~$17K)

Thanks for your help!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
I don't think that giving an offer of 17 is unreasonable. I purchased my E through retail. It was listed on the internet as $19.9k .. when I went in and test drove it they knocked $1k off the bat as the "see we want to sell this today" bit. I kept pressing for $17k max and wound up paying exactly that after two weeks of negotiating.

KBB doesn't fully reflect the car's value. NADA is better but the REAL value is fully up to condition, location, and how much money the dealer would like to make off the car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
557 Posts
I don't like KBB. People use it like it's law for price. I can charge as much as I want for my car, and if someone wants it, they'll pay my price, ya know? I don't like that cars aren't worth as much as they are to you, but you shouldn't get shorthanded, or over-sell because a website says what cars are worth. It doesn't even work right. You can select "premium sound" and it does nothing to the price, along with anything else you click.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Civic, thank you for your take! How much money the dealer would like to make off the car is indeed the real wild card - a particular dealership may have a philosophy that they won't part from. Congrats on your $17K purchase! Was it also an 07 and purchased this year?

Your experience reminds me.......is it best to let them give you their 'best' price first and then make an offer (they came right out and took off $1K for you, but if they don't say anything should one ask?) or best to just get right to the offer before they dig their heels in on a number they offer?

I was thinking of making an offer by e-mail because my schedule right now is insane (and since it can take time to resolve, such as 2 weeks in your experience). Is that insane? Is it more powerful to go through the initial drama (offer) in person? Or is it easier for them to 'save face' in a more clinical e-mail exchange? Of course, if they seem to put their foot down in writing, maybe it's hard to back off off that as opposed to something verbal...I don't know. (I didn't drive the car yet so would just need to condition that it drives okay...I'm sure it will...I did meet the salesperson and manager today)

Ack - these other questions could almost be their own thread!

Thanks for 'listening'.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
Dealers are working online now more than ever, so I wouldn't hesitate to start conversation with them via email. If you met the manager today I would just follow up with a phone call if it were me.

If you were considering new I would highly recommend autobytel.com. I bought my 2005 Civic (brand new) without even stepping onto a dealership lot; it was all done through telephone conversations. However Civic's are pretty generic cars and dealers typically have a set price in mind as to how low they will go. I didn't really care what dealer I bought it from so long as I got the best price.

Used cars a bit more unique, especially if they only have one of that particular model. There are TONS more factors to consider since the dealer could've gotten the car as a trade in, end of lease, auto auction, or trade with another dealer... all yield different prices for the dealer. If the car is CPO the dealer will put a bit of money into it to "recondition" the car as brand new. Sometimes this only means replacing wiper blades; other times it could be replacing cracked windsheilds, tires, etc. If the E your looking at is CPO, ask to see the invoice for reconditioning the car. If not much was done then you know that you'll have more pull in price. If they spent $500 in OEM tires, had to do an alignment, etc etc you might not since the dealer had to put more money into the car.

In my case, when I bought my E I didn't necessarily need a new car. I was fine with my Civic but had been casually looking for an SC for over a year at that point. I had a max budget in mind and knew it might be hard to obtain. I let them make me an offer then I told them what I could afford. I was casual but persistent with my offer. If you REALLY want that particular E, you might have to give in a bit. If you like it but have a strict budget than I'm a strong believer in that "if it happens it was meant to be."

And yes, mine is an '07 ... manufactured in 09/2006 .. I purchased it in April 2009 with 9,200 miles on the odometer. I believe after taxes, etc I was $18,2xx out the door.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Civic, thanks very much for taking the time to share your thoughts on all of this. It's very kind of you to help me sort through this potential major purchase. And great find, your 07 with less than 10K miles!!!!!! I like your phrase "casual but persistant".

I have e-mailed the dealership to find out what fees would be in addition to the amount agreed upon for the car (taxes would be $1200 around here for a $17K car) and I've asked if they could please send info re: work done on the car in association with the certification. I'm told the warranty is a 4 year or 48,000 miles from the orginal date of purchase, and a 7 year or a 100,000 mile power train warranty (standard for pre-owned certified Hondas?).
This car was owned, not leased, and the manager said he bought it directly from the owner.

So we'll see....thank you again and I'll update here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
No problem. This website should help you understand the CPO warranties...

http://automobiles.honda.com/certified-used/warranty.aspx

In my case the warranty was one of the bargaining factors. I was comfortable excluding the CPO warranty from my purchase. The CARFAX showed that although it was a 2007 model manufactured in 2006 the car wasn't purchased by the first owner until February of 2008. So when I purchased my car, I still had a balance of 1yr10months, 26,000miles on the original warranty. I was comfortable with that.

Most dealers will suggest that you keep the CPO warranty because it's a way for them to help boost a higher price with little to no investment to them besides the "reconditioning" costs I talked about.

Good luck. Again, if you're not in a rush for a new E don't stress about it. Things will come with time and patience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
I paid 16,500 for my '06 with 34000 miles. KBB suggested that the value was about 18,000. It was certified, and had all new tires (tire life is an issue with the E, so that wasn't all that problematic). The KBB price was in line with the advertised prices I saw in my area (KBB prices reflect local markets; I paid more by buying the E in Columbus (where I live) than I would have in Toledo (where I grew up- and my parents still live)- about 1000. My E was advertised as an "internet special" at just under 17000, and after having watched advertisements (private and public), KBB and other pricing sites I was satisfied I got a fair deal. I paid about what I had wanted to for a vehicle I (my wife and my dog) love.

In other words, I'm happy; I've the car I want at a price I can afford that is, in general, in line with what my market's values are!

Don't Worry, Be Happy!:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
In my opinion, KBB, NADA, etc are all pretty meaningless in this economy. The price of a car is not determined by a # on a page, but rather whatever the market will bear.

In my case, I just did a quick search on Autotrader for E's within about a 300 mile radius, and started e-mailing dealers.

I test drove a local offering that we really liked, however their face-to-face opening price of $18,950 was WAAAAAAY out of the park.
2 Days and a few e-mails later I had a written offer on the same year/trim level/less mileage E at a dealer out of town for $15,600!

I held my ground, was firm but always respectuful and objective, and it wasn't long before they offered to match that price and we're taking delivery tomorrow on our "new to us" '07 EX, AWD, AT, loaded, with 50,000 miles.

It's what the market will bear... we sent at least 3 hours at the dealership last Saturday - a large, multi-brand new & used Toyota lot... and never saw a single other customer the entire time.
It's a buyers market my friends.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Thanks again Civic! I was reading from the same page about warranties - it's good to know I was looking at the right thing! (I feel like an idiot but what is CPO?)

Jim, interesting about the significant price difference between Toledo and Columbus. Wow. Or should I say, Ow. But glad that all in all, it felt like a fair deal and that you are enjoying the car so much.

stl, congratulations are in order on your 'new' car. Very impressive that you were able to get it for $15.6K. That is the best number I have heard yet for an 07 bought in 09. Granted, 50K miles, but still. When you say 'loaded', did it come with extra stuff beyond that which is standard for this car? If so, wow. Interesting about your 'quiet' experience at the dealership. I guess that sure helped!

To recap, the one I am interested in is also EX AWD (would maybe have preferred 2WD but..), AT, nothing extra really (a couple of floor mats that I certainly welcome), and fewer miles (less than 30K). They're asking ~20K, certified.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
jj, I was using 'CPO' as an acronym for Certified Pre Owned.

I think with that mileage you shouldn't have a problem negotiating a lower price. Test the waters and just be consistent and respectful about your offer. I was in phone negotiations for almost two weeks then spent half a Saturday at the dealership before. Sometimes it just takes that long, suppress the excitement on getting a new car!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
CPO! Ackkkk! - of course, makes perfect sense! Duh!!! Thanks Civic.

I am surprised to see that most of the E's I 'bookmarked' on Edmunds recently are already sold, even one that just came in last week at another dealership. So I guess this one won't last either. Just have to figure out what the magic number is and put it out there I guess, before the car vaporizes. Maybe that number is $17K after all, perhaps more than reasonable considering it has 3x as many miles on it as the one you got. Then there's always stl's at the higher mileage spectrum 50K miles at $15.6. Maybe I'll asking for $17K with fees included (not taxes, but just fees).

You are a saint to keep me company on this. I wish there was a little saint smiley to insert here. Thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
haha, no problem. I'm no saint, trust me. Just been there, done that.

17 might be the right number, but you never know. Someone else might be looking at it and offer 18. In that case, it's a no brainer for the dealer. In due time.

In my case my E was sitting on the dealer's lot for nearly a month before I began contact with them, so maybe that had a bit to do with them coming down low on the price. The planets aligned for me, but like I said it took me over a year of looking.

Again, good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
Found my 1/2 a Hum!

I thought I'd have to settle for just any color, but got my GGM 04 AWD EX loaded with Honda accessories I don't need! Like I'll have a need for the table legs, duh! Coincidentally, I found three very similar on CL, so I had bargaining chips one against the other. Two were dealers, one PP. I wound up with the citizen who had every service record on this car. We're both Vets, so there's a mutual trust there too. A one owner, 66K beauty with almost new all season Michelins for 12800, which includes (somehow) a CPO starting now. I don't know how that works, but the carfax says one owner, not a dealer. DMV closed for the weekend, and I gotta work Mon & Tue, so I have to wait 5 days for my Half~A~Hum! Anyone want to trade a dumb ol' Bug Deflector for a fabulous brand new never used set of Table Legs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
stl, congratulations are in order on your 'new' car. Very impressive that you were able to get it for $15.6K. That is the best number I have heard yet for an 07 bought in 09. Granted, 50K miles, but still. When you say 'loaded', did it come with extra stuff beyond that which is standard for this car? If so, wow. Interesting about your 'quiet' experience at the dealership. I guess that sure helped!
Thanks!

Our "new" 07 EX is now resting comfortably in our driveway! Whew, what a day! That dealer was SLAMMED on the last day of the month - perhaps trying to make quotas? We got there about 12:30 and didn't get into the F&I guys office until 5PM!! Luckily they stuck a dealer tag on the car ant let us go run our errands and provided lunch while we waited. But still - we weren't doing a trade and I pad cash, so the transaction took all of maybe 10 minutes. I think they should have bumped us ahead of everyone waiting for the financing paperwoks, ya know?

So, here's the details - Blue '07 EX, AWD, with fog lights, class I tow hitch and wiring, running boards, floor mats and rear cargo mat, that big arm rest thing with storage, and the center console deal everyone talks about here (from an SC I guess?). New brakes F&R and all 4 tires installed by the dealer. Complete service records on Carfax - all Honda serviced every 5,000 miles. Still had both masters and 1 valet key, manuals, sunroof screen, etc. 12mo/12k warranty, free loaner cars, free pre-road trip inspections, travel interruption reimbursement, etc.
$15,600 out the door.

If anyone is interested, the other one I had on the line was a Kiwi green '07 with 30,000 miles, no options, but also an AWD EX - at the Honda dealer in Springfield Illinois. I had him down to $15,600 OTD with just a couple of e-mails back and forth. The catch with that one though was there were no service records in Carfax. Doesn't mean it wasn't done though, just not done at a dealer I guess. Looked just as clean as ours in the pics. I hope someone can go snap it up, since I kinda left the poor guy hangin'

cheers,
Brian
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Top