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If the process is done correctly as per the bulletin procedures ..... then the pedal should be noticeable firmer after the update.
This statement assumes that there was air in the brake system to begin with.

Not all vehicles affected by the recall will automatically have air in the system. The potential for air in the system exists, which is why the caps are to be properly installed, even on vehicles that have not been getting air into the brake hydraulic system.

If a vehicle doesn't have air in the brake system to begin with, bleeding the brakes will have no affect on the pedal feel.

So far, of the many vehicles I have performed this recall on, I have had ONE vehicle (an Odyssey) that truely had a low / soft brake pedal due to air in the system.

Quite honestly, I believe that many (not all, but many) of the individuals who report a noticeable improvement in their brake pedal after completion of this recall are exibiting a placebo effect.
 

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Quite honestly, I believe that many (not all, but many) of the individuals who report a noticeable improvement in their brake pedal after completion of this recall are exhibiting a placebo effect.
I thought the same thing. I even put off taking the car in just b/c I don't like having people mess with things that are not broken. Since from day one I could pump the brake pedal and on the third pump the brakes were solid, if figured it was normal. Most people here were not having a successful repair, so I figure the operation of the brakes were normal. I adjusted my driving and lived with it.

However, after I got the car back, the brakes certainly do engage at a higher point in the pedal travel. The car DOES NOT have any better stopping power, but a much better pedal feel. So, sure call it a placebo if you want. I sure thought there was nothing really wrong before I took the Element in.

Now, riddle me this. Why does a 1.5 hr procedure take almost all day to complete. I'm assuming that b/c I didn't sit in the waiting room they put my car on the round to-it list. The service writer should have told me that wasn't going to happen if that was the case. I would have made other plans for the day. Oh well, I still got all the big things done that I needed. It's nice to be on vacation.
 

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In that case your car was one of those with air in the lines.
What I'm trying to say is that it may not really be a placebo effect. There are 4x as many Odessy vans in the recall than Elements. If I recall correctly, they are assembled in different factories. It could be that the factory the Element was built in had a higher number of bad parts. There's a lot of different factors that would come in to this. I wouldn't say that just b/c a bunch of Odessy vans don't have the problem that those of reporting a fix don't really have a problem.
 

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This statement assumes that there was air in the brake system to begin with.

Not all vehicles affected by the recall will automatically have air in the system. The potential for air in the system exists, which is why the caps are to be properly installed, even on vehicles that have not been getting air into the brake hydraulic system.

If a vehicle doesn't have air in the brake system to begin with, bleeding the brakes will have no affect on the pedal feel.

So far, of the many vehicles I have performed this recall on, I have had ONE vehicle (an Odyssey) that truely had a low / soft brake pedal due to air in the system.

Quite honestly, I believe that many (not all, but many) of the individuals who report a noticeable improvement in their brake pedal after completion of this recall are exibiting a placebo effect.
Which is why in my comments I talk about a firm pedal for vehicles that previously had a soft pedal.

While I do agree with the whole "placebo effect" phenom that you describe and admittedly laugh inside a bit when we a customer is caught with their pants down on an placebo effect issue, a majority of customers can legitimately notice changes in their vehicle's driveability and performance. Yes, we have the handful who come in and say "I just had my oil changed and now my brakes are making a horrible noise" when the work performed has nothing to do with the symptoms being described, but on the whole I've found that for every customer who suffers from the placebo effect, there are countless others who have legitimate comments or complaints.

Regardless, I believe that properly bleeding the system (again, we use a MightyVac BrakeVac for bleeding the conventional lines and components and it has proven itself to be 100% successful) can make some degree of change in the "feel" of the brakes, whether or not there is in fact air coming out the bleeders that is visible to the tech's eye. Fluid degredation and moisture absoprtion from age can affect the pedal feel when the system is bled/flushed with all new fluid, and customers we have who are picky like me can and often do notice this small change.

I flushed my brake system a couple of months ago when we got our BrakeVac (the fluid in my Element was original from 2004) and while I noticed NO large visible air bubbles coming from any wheel while performing the bleed, the pedal feel was slightly firmer on my road test initially and after the fluid had warmed up (which I am going to assume was due to the moisture the fluid had absorbed over time) in stop-and-go city traffic.

Now, riddle me this. Why does a 1.5 hr procedure take almost all day to complete. I'm assuming that b/c I didn't sit in the waiting room they put my car on the round to-it list. The service writer should have told me that wasn't going to happen if that was the case. I would have made other plans for the day. Oh well, I still got all the big things done that I needed. It's nice to be on vacation.
I guarantee that if that shop is on the FRT (flat rate time) system, that update was done in WELL under 1.5 hours if performed by a FRT tech.

If you had a set appointment then it should have been completed in the allotted timeframe and a call made to inform you it was finished. In retrospect, it is done and not much you can do about it but keep things like that in mind for future appointments you make with that dealer.
 

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MY picture, but it is virtually identical to the picture provided in the actual bulletin. The bulletin picture has arrows pointing to the silicone with the words "continuous bead"
Step 14 of the service bulletin. I have emphasized the second bulleted item
14. Inspect the cap installation:
• The cap should fit squarely on the plug, flush to
the modulator body.
• Make sure there’s a continuous bead of silicone
sealant around the cap.
• If any sealant runs from the cap, wipe off the run,
but do not wipe off the cap.
• If the sealant gets on any other parts, wipe it off
immediately.
Had mine done last Saturday. Did not look at it before I left the dealer, and when I got home and looked I saw that there is not a "continuous bead of silicone sealant around the cap" on the right (passenger) side of the unit. Maybe only halfway around the cap. Jeez, are the instructions not specific enough? :roll:

Is this going to be a concern? I know it is going to bother me, so I am going to take it back as soon as I have a chance. Unfortunately, the dealer is not conveniently located nearby...

Had this "fixed" last year with the TSB (replaced VSA modulator), and now back again for this new recall procedure that they apparently can't properly perform. So effing aggravating...

Oh, and as always, the Service Advisor mentioned the survey that would come and how he hoped I would give high marks as it is "very important" to him. Nobody from Honda has contacted me yet, but I will tell them the repair was not satisfactory.
 

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I just bought my first Element.. 2008 model EX.

I brought it home from the dealer and decided to check out if there was any recalls. Normally I do this before I look at buying a car but was just too busy.
I was really shocked to see this recall

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/results.cfm?rcl_id=10V098000&searchtype=quicksearch&summary=true&refurl=rss

That my Element Vin # falls into this and the dealer did not tell me about it. In fact, my husband had words with them about this, that evening. Pinned them down and they knew about this but said if people don't know or don't ask, they don't feel the need to fix this issue. Not Kosher, nor can I trust what this dealer says. Not a good start for my first dealings with Honda.

If they told me before the chances were still high I would of bought this car anyway but just had them keep it until the Recall repairs where done, then pick it up. To me, up front honesty and trust is a big thing. It is what would keep me going back to a Dealer.

I just hope not all Honda dealers are like this.
 

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I just bought my first Element.. 2008 model EX.

I brought it home from the dealer and decided to check out if there was any recalls. Normally I do this before I look at buying a car but was just too busy.
I was really shocked to see this recall

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/results.cfm?rcl_id=10V098000&searchtype=quicksearch&summary=true&refurl=rss

That my Element Vin # falls into this and the dealer did not tell me about it. In fact, my husband had words with them about this, that evening. Pinned them down and they knew about this but said if people don't know or don't ask, they don't feel the need to fix this issue. Not Kosher, nor can I trust what this dealer says. Not a good start for my first dealings with Honda.

If they told me before the chances were still high I would of bought this car anyway but just had them keep it until the Recall repairs where done, then pick it up. To me, up front honesty and trust is a big thing. It is what would keep me going back to a Dealer.

I just hope not all Honda dealers are like this.
Those are serious grounds for some major complaining to Honda of America.
There was a stop sale issued to all the dealers for the Elements and the
Odysseys!! They were not to sell any until the recall was fixed. There are
people here on the forum that work for Honda, Im sure they will confirm this.
That is NOT COOL on the dealers part. NOT COOL at all!!!! Not sure if there
is another dealer close by, but I would NEVER take my car to that dealer
again. They don't deserve your hard earned money!!!!
 

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Bob Lanphere's

http://www.beavertonhonda.com/

And this is after we told them, I needed a safe reliable car. I also live in some pretty steep hills and explains that fairly mushy brakes.
That's interesting news, Thank you for letting me know.

They are making us wait until next Wed before they will fix the issue.
 

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Interesting.,, once DH read the recall letter out to one of the higher ups at that Dealer around 4:30pm, all of a sudden they are scrambling to make things right. Sigh ~~~
Glad they are willing to do what is right but I am still a bit more pessimistic, its just sad he had to read the letter to get them to listen and do the right thing.

In the future, I will never buy from that Dealer, nor get any work done after they fix this recall issue. My trust in them is totally gone.
Not a good start with my first Honda.

Other than that.. I do like my Element.
 

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Bob Lanphere's

http://www.beavertonhonda.com/

And this is after we told them, I needed a safe reliable car. I also live in some pretty steep hills and explains that fairly mushy brakes.
That's interesting news, Thank you for letting me know.

They are making us wait until next Wed before they will fix the issue.
I'm not sure how steep your hills are but, I've driven on 6-8% grades before the recall and was fine and I had air in the brake lines (see above). However, if you already have the mushy pedal, I'd make them fix it. There's no excuse for selling a car with out performing the recall work first.

I would be calling American Honda and filing a complaint about the dealer and then calling the state attorney general and filing a complain with them as well. Honda really only does a recall for what they deem a safety problem. If they thought this was worth the potential media damage to their reputation to call this recall on the heels of the Toyota recalls, they need to know when their dealers are not handling it properly. The dealer is Honda's image to the consumer. It seems that based on the surveys they do and the way the dealers treat those surveys, that they do care about how their dealers treat you.
 

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The fact that the dealer tried to pull the wool over your eyes and you had to call them on it to have it done is definitely grounds for a formal complaint process to be initiated.

Safety recalls MUST be performed on all vehicles within the affected VIN range and new or used units within that range should be updated as well.

As a tech at a dealer, it pisses me right off to hear of people at our own dealerships intentionally misleading or hiding things from customers. There is no excuse for what they did.
 

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Well, took mine in for the recall. Thought my brakes were fine but they found a lot of air in the lines. After the bleed I keep slamming my brakes thinking I will have a gradual stop. Taking some getting used to but stopping distance is greatly improved. Pedal is much more reactive.
 

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It is really hard to see, but there is no sealant on the outside in that one are of the cap. The cap isn't really that firmly on there either.. and I just barely touched it.

This dealer takes no pride in their work. And they also won't say if they bled the brakes or not. :evil:
 

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Element Brake Recall

I had my brake recall work performed this past Saturday at Coggin Honda in Jacksonville by my preferred mechanic. He has done all of the work on my Element (including the Pilot wiper switch installed Saturday). The brakes have a firmer feel now.

When it rains I'll get to check out the new intermittent settings on my wiper switch.

A good Saturday overall.
 
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