[Cu29 (Copper SOP)]

I test drove a 2Wd 5 speed today in the rain. The front tires kept loosing their grip on the wet pavment. Is this a problem for anyone? How does the car do in dry weather? Has anyone added new tires for better traction on the 5 Speed 2WD?

 

[isketerol]

I had a like problem in my old Chevy S-10. Two things I did were to start in 2nd gear and to replace the all-seasons with Uniroyal Tigerpaw Ice and Snow tires. These actually were a better tire for all-season driving than the supplied GoodYear Eagle GA. Contrary to popular belief, they did not waer much faster.

Iskie

 

[element-j]

I've driven my 5-spd E about 4000 miles now and am still not used to the gearing. Seems to me that the tires break free way too easily in 1st (especially if you are accelerating while turning) and 5th requires way too many rpms to maintain highway speed (resulting in poor gas mileage, unless you compare it to a Lincoln Navigator).

My own personal theory (based on zero factual information) is that Honda was willing to sacrifice good drivability in favor of "pep" thinking (wrongly) that their inexperienced target audience for the E would prefer it that way.

 

[TomB]

[quote:7d0e99564f="element-j"]I've driven my 5-spd E about 4000 miles now and am still not used to the gearing. Seems to me that the tires break free way too easily in 1st (especially if you are accelerating while turning) and 5th requires way too many rpms to maintain highway speed (resulting in poor gas mileage, unless you compare it to a Lincoln Navigator).

My own personal theory (based on zero factual information) is that Honda was willing to sacrifice good drivability in favor of "pep" thinking (wrongly) that their inexperienced target audience for the E would prefer it that way.[/quote:7d0e99564f]

This was precisely my observation (and why I asked in another post about ways to get taller effective gearing, like putting on taller tires or bigger wheels). I really like all of the major points about the E -- I wouldn't have bought it otherwise -- but this is gripe #1 for me by a wide margin.

I think Honda went for the youth appeal (snappier off-the-line pickup) with the short gearing in the manual. It is CRAZY that top gear in the 5-sp stick is shorter than top gear in the 4-sp slushbox. That is just wrong. I would pay good money for a taller final drive gear.

I find myself driving it like a 4-speed. I only keep it in first gear for a few seconds to get rolling, then the other gears are like a normal "four on the floor". Looking at it that way, it doesn't seem as odd that it is so wound out on the highway. Hey, at least it's a step up from my buddy's CJ-5 in high school. He had a 3-speed stick.

I'm still kicking around this idea of the bigger wheels/tires. I think there's probably room in there for maybe 2" or so extra diameter, which would drop RPM from 3500 to about 3250. Too bad the E doesn't have a 6-sp manual. A highway cruising gear to turn over 3000 at 70 mph would probably add 2+ MPG I would bet. I'd be happy to downshift for the occasional big hill.

 

[apposite]

Talk about front wheel slippage; today was the first NorCal Element Owner's Club rally. As part of our day, we drove down Lombard Street in San Francisco (world's crookedest (SP?) street) which is also on a very big hill. Well I had Vanessa drop my off at the top so I could get some pictures of the group and she would drive the car for the photos. *this is the first time she has driven my car.

She made it down the hill just fine, but got caught at a stop sign on the way back up. (If you have never driven in San Francisco before, the hills can reach 30+ degrees - extremely steep) Well, she didn't want to stall the car at the stop sign so.......

It was the burn-out that would have made Don Prudhome proud. I heard it over a block away and I swear I can still smell burnt rubber! :wink: From what I was told there was smoke just billowing out - quite a sight to see! People were quite impressed at what an Elelment can do.

I checked my Pirelli Scorpions - they are fine

needless to say, she would not come back up the hill to pick me up! :lol:


Clark, Vanessa, and Scooter


Other than that, I find the wheel slippage to be no worse than my honda accord or civic (both manuals)

 

[whonowz]

[quote:38a76995f2="TomB"][quote:38a76995f2="element-j"]I've driven my 5-spd E about 4000 miles now and am still not used to the gearing. Seems to me that the tires break free way too easily in 1st (especially if you are accelerating while turning) and 5th requires way too many rpms to maintain highway speed (resulting in poor gas mileage, unless you compare it to a Lincoln Navigator).

My own personal theory (based on zero factual information) is that Honda was willing to sacrifice good drivability in favor of "pep" thinking (wrongly) that their inexperienced target audience for the E would prefer it that way.[/quote:38a76995f2]

This was precisely my observation (and why I asked in another post about ways to get taller effective gearing, like putting on taller tires or bigger wheels). I really like all of the major points about the E -- I wouldn't have bought it otherwise -- but this is gripe #1 for me by a wide margin.

I think Honda went for the youth appeal (snappier off-the-line pickup) with the short gearing in the manual. It is CRAZY that top gear in the 5-sp stick is shorter than top gear in the 4-sp slushbox. That is just wrong. I would pay good money for a taller final drive gear.

I find myself driving it like a 4-speed. I only keep it in first gear for a few seconds to get rolling, then the other gears are like a normal "four on the floor". Looking at it that way, it doesn't seem as odd that it is so wound out on the highway. Hey, at least it's a step up from my buddy's CJ-5 in high school. He had a 3-speed stick.

I'm still kicking around this idea of the bigger wheels/tires. I think there's probably room in there for maybe 2" or so extra diameter, which would drop RPM from 3500 to about 3250. Too bad the E doesn't have a 6-sp manual. A highway cruising gear to turn over 3000 at 70 mph would probably add 2+ MPG I would bet. I'd be happy to downshift for the occasional big hill.[/quote:38a76995f2]

Have the automatic, but felt it could be that Honda thought the 5-speed would be the pick of the 'off-road crowd'. For those dirt roads that lead to the hiking and/or mountain biking trail-head, etc., where a bit lower gearing would definitely be an advantage. Less expensive too for those with tight budgets!

It would have been nice to know before plunkin' down the cash and driving into the sunset though. Do a lot of hiking and biking myself (even at 50) and maybe the manual would have been better for me in this case. The bigger tires sound like a reasonable solution for you. Maybe I should get smaller, wider ones. But then I'd lose the 'minimal' ground clearance...Hmmm...maybe a hydraulic lift kit too!

 

[whonowz]

[quote:c23404285e="apposite"][/quote:c23404285e]

Too bad you didn't get some good pictures of that!

 

[Oak Lawn Element]

[quote:7ab148d294="Cu29 (Copper SOP)"]I test drove a 2Wd 5 speed today in the rain. The front tires kept loosing their grip on the wet pavment. Is this a problem for anyone? How does the car do in dry weather? Has anyone added new tires for better traction on the 5 Speed 2WD?[/quote:7ab148d294]

What you have is a fwd that has torque - and plenty of it. You have to learn to finesse it, not just dump the clutch and stomp the gas. Yes, I know, an oversimplification, but you get my drift.

My '99 Si had little torque, but still could generate substantial wheelspin off the line. The 2k2 Si had tons more torque, and required much more coordination of the clutch and throttle. That was with 130 odd ft/lbs of torque. Now, with the E, you have 160 ft/lbs to manage. And manage is exactly what you have to do. Hell, I have to watch the throttle off the line even with my awd a/t and the new 235/70-16 Fortreras.

It's a learning curve, not a factory oversight.

 

[chitownpete]

Front wheel drive cars with an open differential suck. My 1998 Nissan 200sx
SE-R is the only front driver that had a limited slip diff and it made all the difference in all conditions. The low gearing doesn't help but I like burnouts
and my DX 5 speed can do them even after the clutch is fully engaged in 1st. Definetely catches people by surprise.

 

[hunterbase]

I agree that the gearing is an annoyance. It's especially aggrivating at interstate speeds. But then I wished for 6 speed in my previous car too.

I for one only use 1st gear if the AC is on, or if I am starting up hill.

It's just easier to ease from a stand-still in 2nd than to start in 1st and immediately shift again to 2nd. Oh and I've chirped the tires in 2nd before. which was cool...

 

[theCatman]

Hi everyone, my first post so please excuse any faux pas.

I have a different perspective on this. I'm 50+ but enjoy the power of 1st gear. (Must be carryover from my S2000). I also wonder if that extra power won't be needed with a full load of artwork (very heavy!).

However, I wonder if my E is going to be any good in the winter at all. I've never had a front wheel drive car that is as terrible as this one going up hill. I can't pull out of my parking lot at work without laying a strip of rubber. I can't see how it will ever be driveable in really bad weather and now wished I'd opted for the 4WD version.

Looking at the suggestions above, I see some problems. Remember that if you elect for bigger tires, you're going to throw off your speedometer and your odometer and it might actually void your warranty. I would check with a dealer about recallibration of both first.

Second, if you've ever driven a VW Bus, you'll recognize the weak shocks of the Element. Has anyone experimented with heavier shocks or has anyone asked a dealer about them?

To go over a washboard road is like getting hundreds of kidney punches one right after the other! It's also hard to control the steering (in fact it's dangerously difficult to steer in such conditions, also reminiscent of the VW Bus and the old VW Bugs.) :shock: I figured with the engine over the front wheels it couldn't possibly be too light in the front end. WRONG!

They also had a report in our local paper on SUV's (probably from a national article). The Element fared the worst in all crash tests and accident avoidance. (Honda)

I'm wondering if stiffer shocks or something aftermarket wouldn't solve a host of these problems.

Any information would be appreciated.

The Catman

 

[Staggie]

Catman,

I live in SF where we have lots of hills, some pretty steep and I haven't had a problem with tires not holding their grip (though it is kinda fun when I chirp the tires in 2nd coming out of a turn). It may just take a while to adapt to the gearing. The first few days I had it I did chirp on a hill a few times, but not since then.

As to "came in last on all the tests" that's blatantly incorrect. the E has 5-star ratings for front driver and passenger from both IIHS and the feds. In ONE test, the IIHS's new side-impact test, it did rate poor but in reading the evaluations of the other 8 small SUV's that also rated poor in that test it certainly wasn't the worst of the bunch (that honor specifically went to a Mitsu). That's not to say I don't wish it did better, but I'd like to see how it fares on the feds side-impact test too. I doubt any car I've ever had would pass the new IIHS test, but I seem to have survived none-the-less.

 

[theCatman]

Thanks Staggie!

Glad to hear that about the crash test ratings. Our local paper, "The Richmond Times Disgrace", as it's affectionately known, is not always the best source of information.

You probably don't get a lot of snow out there, but it's true, I only have a few hundred miles on it so far and it's getting better. Still tends to float over bumps and bounce a few times more than necessary on the big ones.

I've had the pleasure of driving on some of your hills (like the infamous route from the Bullitt chase scene!) and they're indeed quite a challenge.

Thanks again,

theCatman