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Discussion Starter #1
Tomorrow I will be adjusting my valves.

Today I took thing apart per the Helm manual.

Preparations Steps:

1. Turn steering wheel all the way to the right.

2. Remove intake manifold cover two 10mm bolts

3. Remove ignition coil cover four 10mm nuts

4. Remove ignition coils four 10mm nuts and four connectors.

5. Remove 2 10mm bolts securing vacuum lines on the right of the valve cover

6. Remove 1 10mm bolt securing P/S hose bracket on the back left of the valve cover

7. Move P/S hose to the left and the ignition harness to the back.

8. Remove the dipstick

9. Remove the breather hose on the right of the valve cover with pliers on the bracket and pull off nipple.

10. Remove 6 10mm nuts and washers from cylinder head cover.

11. Lift head cover straight up to take off.

12. Put 19mm ratchet on crankshaft bolt.

Here's pictues of what the result looks like:





 

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>Tomorrow I will be adjusting my valves.

:shock:

How come? 30K under the severe schedule. You have 30K already? And you drive it that hard?

For the non-techies here - valve adjustment normally comes at 110,000 miles.

(Doesn't look too bad, frankly. Let us know what you find on the starting clearances. I'm surprised that they don't remove the sparkplugs in the book procedure - makes turning the crank so much easier... and you're replacing the plugs anyway!)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well this is an "after break-in embellishment". That's right I'm only at 10,000 miles and I didn't misread the book.

I like to set all the valves to "perfect", I adjusted the valves on my S2000 at 6,000 miles and the engine idled much better. I also like to be more precise than they may have been set at the factory. It only took me about 20 minutes to disassemble the valve cover. It won't take me long to adjust the valves. Plus I'm doing it to see what the valvetrain looks like. ;)

There are people with Gen1 CR-V's who had burnt exhaust valves for waiting to adjust their valves until 105,000 miles. I agree that 30,000 miles is reasonable for most people who want to do it early and not risk damage from waiting until 110,000 miles.

I'll report the actual settings of the valves later in the day and let you guys decide whether or not it was worthwhile. Just checking it is worthwhile to me cuz it doesn't take me long.

Here are some more pictures, first of the cam gears at #1 TDC, and second the place where the valves are adjusted.



 

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Discussion Starter #4
Actually, this is the first time I ever adjusted valves without removing the spark plugs... I was afraid it would be too hard to turn, too. But it's easy if you take it slow.

P.S. our S2000's had a TSB for loose spark plugs, I also want to check that all the spark plugs are at least at up to the torque settings in the book. This is another one of those confidence-inspiring actions this Mechanical Engineer wants to do :shock:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Turning the crankshaft clockwise wasn't too bad. You turn it some and let the compression subside--you can hear a whistle it sneak past the rings. Then turn some more. When you get close to TDC on each cylinder it gets suddenly easy to turn, expect to have to turn back CCW a few degrees to get it exactly where it's supposed to be.

As for where I found the clearances, I'll report the largest feeler gage I could get between the tappet and valve without shoving:

#1 Int .008, .008; Exh .010, .011
#2 Int .009, .009; Exh .011, .011
#3 Int .010, .010; Exh .010, .011
#4 Int .009, .009; Exh .012, .011

The specification is:
Int .008-.010; Exh .011-.013.

When I was done adjusting, the settings were this:

#1 Int .009, .009; Exh .012, .012
#2 Int .009, .009; Exh .012, .012
#3 Int .009, .009; Exh .012, .012
#4 Int .009, .009; Exh .012, .012

I made sure a .010 and .013 would not go through.

Notice that I adjusted 11 of 16 valves, 9 of which were tight compared to the center of the specification, 2 were tight enough to be slightly out of specification.

One thing I don't know is whether or not (for the Element) valves get loose over time or tight over time. My experience between adjustments is that they can go either way. You don't have to worry too much about them getting loose, but tight valves can be very damaging because the valves are open when they shouldn't be.

I also checked the spark plug torque. All passed 18 N*m.

Putting things back together was more time consuming than taking them apart. Notably the valve cover was hard to get past all the stiff hoses which constantly tried to get in the way. But otherwise using a torque wrench and making sure everything was clean:

1. Clean valve cover seating surface and rubber gasket with non-chlorinated brake parts cleaner.

2. Apply Hondabond HT to four locations, two corners and timing chain cover interface with the head.

3. Remove washers and gaskets from 6 locations on the valve cover.

4. Put valve cover back on, carefully making sure you're not crushing anything (use a mirror) and that the spark plug seals are properly seating.

5. Put the gaskets and washers and nuts on the studs. Tighten in steps per the torque sequence in the Helm manual to 12 N*m.

6. Optional: Check spark plug torque to 18 N*m.

7. Install dipstick.

8. Replace breather hose.

9. Reinstall P/S hose bracket, torque the bolt to 12 N*m.

10. Reinstall vacuum line bracket, torque the two bolts to 12 N*m.

11. Replace ignition coils, torque the four bolts to 12 N*m.

12. Replace the spark plug cover, torque the four bolts/nuts to 9.8 N*m.

13. Replace the intake manifold cover, torque the two bolts to 12 N*m.

14. Wait at least 30 minutes before driving so the Hondabond HT can fully cure. Spend the time accounting for all your tools, checking over your work.

All together it took me 3 hours.

Based on what I experienced, I would definitely recommend having a valve adjustment done by 30,000 miles.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
After a test drive, the car idles and runs about the same as it did before the adjustment.

I found it interesting that the two exhaust valves run off of one camshaft lobe. The rocker arm is one solid piece (which required a lower torque spec when adjusting valves, 14 N*m instead of 20 N*m). For all the DOHC Hondas in recent memory the exhaust valves have their own cam lobe. Maybe it's a cost-saving measure? Maybe with roller cam followers the friction is low enough that one cam lobe is sufficient?

VTEC only runs off the intake valves. There is a huge difference between the two intake cam profiles. All rocker arms work all the time, instead of the usual DOHC VTEC which requires a lost motion spring for the high RPM rocker arm. Instead, there are only two rocker arms instead of the 3 used for the S2000 engine. In the Element, one valve always opens more than the other at low RPM, which promotes swirl. At high RPM, they lock together and both intake valves run off of the wild cam (instead of just one). Then the "i" part of the iVTEC works off the front cam pulley, notice how it's different than the one behind it. The actual cam dwell of the intake valve operates off computer control, while the exhaust valve cam dwell is fixed.

You'll also see the timing chain. I know some less-read people wonder if the Element has a chain or belt. See, it's a chain :)
 

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Now if it was me, I would have left the intakes alone since all were within tolerances (I know, you have it opened-up anyway).

However, that's very interesting on the exhausts... two were tight out of spec, with the rest 'cept one at the bottom of the tolerance range. What we need to know (but can't know) is what they were from the factory. If this is - at all - an indication that the trend is for the exhaust valves to tighten-up, then a 30K interval is perfectly reasonable even under normal service. I'm making mental note that it's going to need this at 30.

That compression behavior is exactly what you're supposed to get when hand-cranking. I've been lazy at times while chasing valve clatter and didn't bother with the plugs. Not to mention that one car I had which needed fairly frequent valve adjusts was a V8 with the front bank of plugs inaccessable without other disassembly.

Did you buy the special tool that's mentioned in the manual? Those look like every other Japanese design I've done the valves on - a box-end wrench and clean, sharp screwdriver are just fine.

(Oooooh... are my eyes deceiving me? Roller tappets? Way cool!)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Here's a list of the things I needed to do the job:

Helm shop manual
2- 3/8" Ratchets
10mm and 19mm sockets
10mm crescent wrench
3" and 6" extensions for 3/8" drive
Pliers (for breather hose)
Flat screwdriver
Torque wrench good up to 20 N*m
Handheld Mirror
Non-chlorinated brake cleaner
Hondabond HT or equivalent non-silicone gasket sealant
5/8" spark plug socket (to check the installation torque, didn't need to take them out)
 

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The only iVTEC engines with VTEC on the exhaust is the RSX type-s and the TSX. All others are only on the intake.
 

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There is a gasket on the cover.Parts number 12341-RAA-A00.It shouldnt be any more than $20 at the dealer.I always use a little permatex ultra grey rtv gasket maker (sensor safe/ part#82194) on the gasket wether im using the old one or installing a new one.
 

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engine ticking-clack clack clack....

Hi,

my elements engine at lithuania started to make a noisy noise that drives me crazy:)
good symptoms:
- no oil leak;
- no higher fuel consumption;
- same compression in each cylinder;
bad symptoms:
- high noise 'clack clack clack';

i am almost 95% shure that engine need valve adjustment, but my Element is in European country, and service station cant help me, as the car is manufactured in USA.
i read this article very carefully, but still have some questions:
1. What is "TDC"?
2. Which cylinder is the first one?
3. How those marks should be(or stand) when adjusting first cylinder? the second one and so on?
4. 0,009 those are inches? because we have here a different metric system...

thanks in advance...
 

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Cylinder # 1 is closest to the crank pulley. The firing order is 1,3,4,2

ONLY rotate the crankshaft in a clockwise direction - if you turn it backwards, you will compress the tensioner and run the risk of jumping the timing chain.

Valve Clearance
Intake: 0.21-0.25 mm (0.008-0.010 in.)
Exhaust: 0.28-0.32 mm (0.011-0.013 in.)

CYLORDER.jpg


With cylinder # 1 on top dead center compression, the marks (C) on the exhaust (B) and intake (A) cams should look like this.
CAM1.jpg
 

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Rotate the crank 180 degrees clockwise (the cam pulleys will rotate 90 degrees), the next cylinder in the firing order is #3, so the marks will look like:
CAM3.jpg

Then #4:
CAM4.jpg


Then #2
CAM2.jpg

Adjust to the loose side of the spec, I know you're trying to eliminate noise, but slappy valves are happy valves, and if you get the exhaust valves too tight when cold, they get so tight at operating temperature that you run the risk of burning them, which will make YOU very unhappy.
 

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Q:

1. What is "TDC"?
2. Which cylinder is the first one?
3. How those marks should be(or stand) when adjusting first cylinder? the second one and so on?
4. 0,009 those are inches? because we have here a different metric system...

1: IS TOP DEAD CENTER ( TDC )

2: Number 1 is the first one on the left.

3: The marks must align for the first cylinder. There are 2 marks on the pulley on the crankshaft. You want the one on the left as you face it, looking down from the top. You will see the pointer mounted the block. At this point the 2 Punch marks on the timing gears will be at the top of the gear, If you are at Top dead center. There will also be 2 slots cut into the face of the same 2 gears. Those slots will be aligned, and next to each other. You woll see that the piston is at the top of the cylinder, and the lifters are not on the lobes of the cam's.

When No.1 is done, Rotate the crank shaft 180 deg. thats 90 deg. on the camshaft pulley, then do number 3 cylinder . Rotate the crank 180 deg. and do number 4 cylinder. Then rotate the crank 180 deg and do number 2 cylinder.

Each time make positive test to see that the piston is at the top of the cylinder, and the lifters are not on a high spot on the cam lobes.


Just to be clear, Every time you turn the crank shaft 180 degrees the cam gears will also turn only 90 degrees. That will insure that your at TDC for that Cylinder. I still like to double check it ! It may be over kill or lack in confidence . I've been doing it that way for over 45 years. I guess it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks!

Need more info? Just ask.

Dom
 

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Just did my valves at 116,000. All the exhaust valves were .008 ish, tighter then spec. Carefully adjusted all of them. But there is still a bit of tappet noise.

To anyone thinking of doing it themselves:

It's not too difficult, no special tools needed. But I bought some feeler gauges that are already bent, and I used a home made tappet wrench. (10mm wrench bent at 45 angle in a vise).

Note, You have to remove the funny little cupped washers and the black gaskets holding down the cover, before trying to remove the cover. If you don't the thing will just not move.

I also changed plugs at same time. You'll need wrench extension, and spark plug socket with magnet or rubber insert.
 

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Quick thought

I don't have the Helms manual for my Element, but I'm guessing it still advises that the adjustment be made with the engine/parts completely cool. I like to pull the valve cover and get everything ready at night and then let the car sit in the garage over night and tackle the adjustment first thing in the morning.

I think this thread has become more relevant to all the posters who seem to be having issues with a dying engine. The two common problems seem to be valves that are out of adjustment and a dirty throttle body. With 60K on a 2007 EX that is experiencing the same engine stall, I'll be tackling this valve adjustment soon in order to prepare the car for the upcoming road trip from CA to CO.

Good luck!
 

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Basset Box & Irv said:
How much would this cost to have done at the dealership/mechanic?
I've heard $700 to $800 and more from a few people. (one was a K motor Accord....a K motor Acura was closer to $1000)

Guess I gotta charge more than a case of beer!
 

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Although required maintenance, and one poster saying they found EXT too tight after 116k, I don't recall reading (this forum or any source) what if any consequences of failure to perform this maintenance, and what were any immediate noticeable results. I'm not trying to be skeptical, I'm wondering why Honda designed the engine to require this maintenance. As an Acura mechanic, I've not seen any engine with damage from lack of valve adjustment. Thoughts?
 
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