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Any Honda Techs/Mechanics out there that know if there is a minimal temperature when using HondaBond HT?
What the adjusted wait time would be if temps are around 35 F?
Should I apply a heat gun to surface before applying and after to accelerate the drying time?
Want to reassemble the CAM chain cover.

Thanks, John
 

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All valve adjustment info into one single document

When I decided to check the valve adjustment on my Element, I found this great post here with bits of useful information here and there in the 20 pages or so of the post. I figured out it would be nice to have all info into one condensed, printable document, and here it is.

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Honda_ELEMENT_Valve_Clearance_Adjustement.pdf
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Credits are due to Einstein for initiating the thread with original instructions and pictures, then to Honda Tech, lizzurd, ramblerdan & the rest for their contributions...

Models covered: All year & models of the Honda Element.

Time required: Depend on your skills (according to various forum users: from 2 to 7 hours)

When to perform: According to the Honda Element maintenance schedule, this is recommended at 110,000 miles (or 176,000 km). They (Honda) also say: « otherwise adjust if noisy » (however, tight clearances makes NO noise so deciding to do it or not based only on the sound they make is not ideal!)

What has been reported to be fixed after adjusting: Rough idle, poor running, stall in cold starting, occasional engine shaking, poor fuel consumption, misfire error code, system too rich error code.

The document has 4 parts:

1- Preparation
2- Getting access to the valves
3- Adjusting valve clearance
4- Re-assembly

Hope you enjoy and do not hesitate if you have any comments I can maintain and update the document as it goes.

Moderators feel free to make this a sticky or move it in the first page of the post.
 

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Adjust those valves

Couple reasons to adjust those valves, see pic. Went too long before my initial adjustment around 160k. You'll see the #2 cyl cam lobe degraded and and the #3 exhaust valve was breaking down.

Was able to tear it down (190k) and reassemble it myself and send the head to a machine shop for a new ex valve, head cleaning, and new seals and guides.

Note. The cam chain adjuster was still in spec with only 6mm wear out of the 13mm limit.

While I was in there also replaced the thermostat, rad and heater hoses, muffler, tailpipe, and top end seal kit.

Just want everyone who loves their element to adjust those valves.

 

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To assist in adjusting valves on the Element, I modified my pertinent feeler gauges by removing about 1/4" from the length on a grinding wheel and then dressing the burr off of the edge with an oil stone. This makes it easier to get into the tight areas around the valve stem. The .011 gauge shown is modified and the .005 gauge is in its original length. The length of the .011 gauge is more than long enough to get the job done.
 

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Recap of 29 pages

Hi all,

This has been a really good thread. At 29 pages it can be a bit overwhelming for a new reader trying to learn about the subject so I was going to help out by summarizing a little of what has been stated in the previous 29 pages, and what I learned doing my valves today as well.

First, Forum member Heap has taken information from Honda Tech, lizzurd, and RamblerDan and put together a really nice, complete PDF of the entire adjustment process in post #64. That provides a great summary of many of the preceding posts.

Furthermore, the general experience on our K motors is that the intake valve clearances tighten with time, but generally very slowly - but the exhaust valve clearances tighten at a much higher rate. This is common in other mechanical tappet engines - I just wanted to point out that many posts here back that up. The surprise to me was that many members on this forum are finding that the 110,000 mile interval proposed by Honda might actually be a little too far -it seemed that a number of people by 75K - 100K were noting "tight" exhaust valve clearances. I wondered how tight... were they just a few thousandths under spec, or down near ZERO?

The driveability symptom that most seem to notice is a rough idle, and occasional stalling.

I'm at 91,000 miles in my '07 SC and figured it was about time to check - and just last week noticed a little rougher idle than usual. And, come to think of it, I tossed it into neutral a few months ago at speed (I have the stick shift) and the engine died. ODD. It had never done that before... and hasn't since, but that caught my attention as well.

So I printed Heap's PDF, bought a valve cover gasket, and checked my clearances today. What do you know, TIGHT exhaust valves! The spec is 11 to 13 thousandths of an inch cold and a number of posters will note that theirs were on the tight side, say, 8 thousandths... others will note that they were even tighter, "less than 5 thousandths" as that's their thinnest feeler gauge that still won't fit... Well, I have a full set of gauges so that was not a limitation.

Although all my intakes were still in spec, EVERY exhaust was tight. How tight? Buckle up...

One valve was at 8 thousandths.
One valve was at 7 thousandths.
Two valves were at 6 thousandths.
One valve was at 5 thousandths.
One valve was at 4 thousandths!
One valve was at 2 thousandths!
and the final valve was at 1 thousandth of an inch!

YIKES.

So I won't belabor the point: obviously I adjusted them, the idle is now smooth, and things are good. But here are a few tips:

As pointed out in a few posts (#60, #122, #266 are good examples) I agree with them and would have to say that it is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL TO USE FEELER GAUGES THAT HAVE THE BENT (Angled) TIP. I started this off with straight feelers and quickly noticed how precise I had to be to really get it right - it was very easy to mislead myself into an incorrect clearance measurement. In fact, this is the first item mentioned that you will need in Heap's PDF, yet my eyes blew right over the "Angled" word. He's right, get a set with the bent tips (angled). This is too important of a job to do wrong.

Second, if I am not mistaken, the thread rate on the adjusters is .75mm/thread, meaning that you can at least get CLOSE very quickly with the following table:

CCW 1/8 turn - increases clearance by ~4 thousandths
CCW 1/4 turn - increases clearance by ~7 thousandths
CCW 3/8 turn - increases clearance by ~11 thousandths
CCW 1/2 turn - increases clearance by ~15 thousandths

That saved me some time, because, as an example: the valve with a 1 thou clearance needed to be around 12 (an increase of 11) so I loosened the locknut, rotated the adjuster 3/8 of a turn CCW, and re-snugged the nut. What do you know, I then found the gap to be 12 thousandths.

It did open up an idea at that point, since it is sooo critical that you get the feeler gauge oriented properly in the gap... I can see how a Honda Mechanic who doesn't want to spend 3 hours doing this would rotate the crank to the given TDC of one cylinder, bottom out all four adjusters, and back all of them out 3/8 turn, and move to the next cylinder. This would set all valves at around 11 thousandths. It's not as precise and all as using the gauges, but given the places that mistakes can be made, I'll bet you'd never have a problem. Just a thought.

Anyway, thanks to Einstein for starting this thread (12 years ago!) and to this group who provides lots of great information. Thanks to this forum, I was also able to capitalize on other's learning and do the 6-speed mod (which was worth every minute and every penny)... thanks rhurt, MikeQBF and RamblerDan! Hence this long post tonight hopefully to help others as well.

My only 'original' contribution to this forum is: I increased my E's fuel capacity, which is currently at 33 gallons. 900 miles on a tank isn't too hard to do. There's a whole thread on that with photos and data, I hope that helps others who can learn from that.

Thanks all, this E is going to be in my stable for quite some time thanks to the ideas and contributions of all of its members (yes, that's you).
 

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When the valves are properly adjusted, they will make noise. When the valves stop making noise is when there is no gap and that is when things go wrong.
 

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Why can I not get a straight answer from any shop I talk to?

I tell them I want a valve adjustment, they try to talk me out of it, saying they need to diagnose stuff... A lot of them seem to think there is no need for a valve adjustment.

One told me I would only do the valves when I had my timing belt changed. is that accurate? i didn't know i had to worry about timing belt on the Element
 

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Why can I not get a straight answer from any shop I talk to?

I tell them I want a valve adjustment, they try to talk me out of it, saying they need to diagnose stuff... A lot of them seem to think there is no need for a valve adjustment.

One told me I would only do the valves when I had my timing belt changed. is that accurate? i didn't know i had to worry about timing belt on the Element
You don't have a timing belt.

Find another shop. If they told me that , it would make me suspect o a lot of things with them.

What kind of issue do you have that they think they want to diagnose something?
 

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Idling issue. Car starts up in the morning then idles too low and engine stall

The reason I'm trying to talk to these places before I drop off my car is

1) seems like a difficult problem to diagnose, I don't want them to do a half ass job then I get the car back and it isn't fixed

2) I don't want to pay for anything unnecessary. For instance, this first place I went to wanted to order me an IACV, they (and I at the time) didn't know that the 2007 doesn't even have an IACV

3) I have little confidence these places have experience with Elements in particular. Seems like this issue requires some experience with Elements as it's very particular, whether it's IACV or valves or etc. A lot of places don't want to do the valve adjustment , they think it's unnecessary, and I can tell they haven't worked with Elements before or else everyone on EoC is crazy for talking about valve adjustments all the time. When they try to fight me on the valve adjustment, it makes me think they won't take the job seriously if I do ask them to do it
 

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Personally, I don't think your valve adjustment is going to fix your idle issue. Doesn't hurt having it done if you have over 110K miles though.

As far as them wanting to diagnose stuff, that's a good thing.
 

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Personally, I don't think your valve adjustment is going to fix your idle issue. Doesn't hurt having it done if you have over 110K miles though.

As far as them wanting to diagnose stuff, that's a good thing.
I wonder if during valve adjustments, replacing one of the parts involved , like the valve head cover gasket, actually solves the issue for people (at least temporarily?)

Or maybe it's when they reset the ECM, it solves the Idle issue temporarily. This would explain the numerous posters here claiming the valve adjustment solved their problems.

My mechanic today was also skeptical that it was the valves causing the issue. He said it was more likely the dirty throttle body.
 

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Quick question please! I haven't been able to find (or understand) a clear answer and just want to be sure.
The firing order (piston order) is 1342 , 1 being passenger side 2 being driver side.
So when the TDC mark on the crank pully is up, piston 1 is ready to be adjusted. I turn the crank pulley 90 degrees clockwise (3 o'clock position) what piston is in the tdc position now? number 3 piston? Then another 90 degrees for number 4, and a final 90 degrees (9 o'clock) for cylinder 2?

Thanks alot!
 
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