[ramblerdan]

IMO you need a service manual for this job. And you have a torque wrench, yes?

 

[hotrodder]

Double Check

Start by checking the mechanics findings. Everyone makes mistakes. I've seen false coolant contamination tests and simple fixes blamed as a burnt valve. Buy a screw-in compression tester, remove all spark plugs, go to spinning and find out what is going on in your engine.

Also, perform a leak down test to check condition of the rings. If you do pull a cylinder head, there will be some coolant leaking into the cylinders. Remove this immediately (within two minutes) and lightly oil down the cylinders.

You've probably heard the tale of a valve job blowing the rings out. What's really happening is, ethyl glycol has the ability to harden shiny metal, leading to the rings not seating properly again until the cylinder is rehoned.

Looking forward to your update----;-)

P.S. For the mechanics in the group----a young girl recently told us her mechanic said she needed a new crankshaft for $1200, but had welded it up to get her buy:shock:

 

[Basset Box]

How much would it cost if you replace the motor vs replacing just the TOP, just saying! I know some GC V8's motor sells for cheap, sounds like a lot easier than messing with something your not familiar with...i know you don't have this experience either but it's a lot less headache if having someone install it for you.

Those engines won't match up and I know my limited skills would require me to hire someone. That would cost me probably twice as much as this job.

IMO you need a service manual for this job. And you have a torque wrench, yes?

I do not have a service manual. Nor do I know what it is or what it does. I will look into picking one up. U think i need a torque wrench? You are giving me too much credit to get it apart and back together. ;-)

Start by checking the mechanics findings. Everyone makes mistakes. I've seen false coolant contamination tests and simple fixes blamed as a burnt valve. Buy a screw-in compression tester, remove all spark plugs, go to spinning and find out what is going on in your engine.

Also, perform a leak down test to check condition of the rings. If you do pull a cylinder head, there will be some coolant leaking into the cylinders. Remove this immediately (within two minutes) and lightly oil down the cylinders.

You've probably heard the tale of a valve job blowing the rings out. What's really happening is, ethyl glycol has the ability to harden shiny metal, leading to the rings not seating properly again until the cylinder is rehoned.

Looking forward to your update----;-)

The mechanic told me they did the test 2 or 3 times and it confirmed a blown head gasket. I asked and they did not do a leak down test. I am calling him today to see which head had the issue. The car did trip a code that said a fault occurred in a valve/cylinder (not sure of specifics) as well. I will make sure to ask a few more questions. Think I can rent a compression tester? I think they drained the coolant when they did some tests (reserve reservoir is empty), do I need to get the thing running to do this test?

 

[ApriliaGuy]

The mechanic told me they did the test 2 or 3 times and it confirmed a blown head gasket. I asked and they did not do a leak down test. I am calling him today to see which head had the issue. The car did trip a code that said a fault occurred in a valve/cylinder (not sure of specifics) as well. I will make sure to ask a few more questions.

Start from the begining....

What was the orig problem? Running rough? Overheating? Burning coolant?

Oil in the coolant? Coolant in the oil?


Yeah, you wanna get a service manual. It is a big book (or cd) that tells you how to test things, and then take 'em apart, fix, or replace the bad stuff.

Good luck.

 

[07lmnt]

If you have the 4.7 overhead cam engine, this is for left head from Alldata. By the way it looks like a lot of work!

Removal and Installation-Left
Notes

REMOVAL


Disconnect the negative cable from the battery.
Raise the vehicle on a hoist.
Disconnect the exhaust pipe at the left side exhaust manifold.
Drain the engine coolant. Refer to Cooling System.
Lower the vehicle.
Remove the intake manifold.
Remove the cylinder head cover.
Remove the fan shroud and fan blade assembly. Refer to Cooling System.
Remove accessory drive belt.
Remove the power steering pump and set aside.






Fig. 50



Rotate the crankshaft until the damper timing mark is aligned with TDC indicator mark (Fig. 50).






Fig. 52



Verify the V8 mark on the camshaft sprocket is at the 12 o'clock position (Fig. 52). Rotate the crankshaft one turn if necessary.
Remove the crankshaft damper.
Remove the timing chain cover.






Fig. 51



Lock the secondary timing chains to the idler sprocket using Special Tool 8515 (Fig. 51). NOTE: Mark the secondary timing chain prior to removal to aid in installation.
Mark the secondary timing chain, one link on each side of the V8 mark on the camshaft drive gear (Fig. 52).
Remove the left side secondary chain tensioner. Refer to Timing Components.






Fig. 53



Remove the cylinder head access plug (Fig. 53.).
Remove the left side secondary chain guide. Refer to Timing Components.
Remove the retaining bolt and the camshaft drive gear. CAUTION: Do not allow the engine to rotate. Severe damage to the valve train can occur. CAUTION: Do not overlook the four smaller bolts at the front of the cylinder head. Do not attempt to remove the cylinder head without removing these four bolts. NOTE: The cylinder head is attached to the cylinder block with fourteen bolts.
Remove the cylinder head retaining bolts.
Remove the cylinder head and gasket. Discard the gasket. CAUTION: Do not lay the cylinder head on its gasket sealing surface, due to the design of the cylinder head gasket any distorxion to the cylinder head sealing surface may prevent the gasket from properly sealing resulting in leaks.
INSTALLATION

NOTE: The cylinder head bolts are tightened using a torque plus angle procedure. The bolts must be examined BEFORE reuse. If the threads are necked down the bolts should be replaced.







Fig. 54

Necking can be checked by holding a straight edge against the threads. If all the threads do not contact the scale, the bolt should be replaced (Fig. 54).

CAUTION: When cleaning cylinder head and cylinder block surfaces, DO NOT use a metal scraper because the surfaces could be cut or ground. Use only a wooden or plastic scraper.







Fig. 55



Clean the cylinder head and cylinder block mating surfaces (Fig. 55).
Position the new cylinder head gasket on the locating dowels. CAUTION: When installing cylinder head, use care not damage the tensioner arm or the guide arm.
Position the cylinder head onto the cylinder block. Make sure the cylinder head seats fully over the locating dowels. NOTE: The four smaller cylinder head mounting bolts require sealant to be added to them before installing. Failure to do so may cause leaks.
Lubricate the cylinder head bolt threads with clean engine oil and install the ten M11 bolts.
Coat the four M8 cylinder head bolts with Mopar Lock and Seal Adhesive then install the bolts. NOTE: The cylinder head bolts are tightened using an angle torque procedure, however, the bolts are not a torque-to-yield design.






Fig. 56



Tighten the bolts in sequence (Fig. 56) using the following steps and torque values:
Step 1: Tighten bolts 1-10, 20 Nm (15 ft. lbs.) .
Step 2: Tighten bolts 1-10, 47 Nm (35 ft. lbs.) . Tighten bolts 11-14, 25 Nm (18 ft. lbs.) .
Step 3: Tighten bolts 1-10, 90 degrees. Tighten bolts 11-14, 30 Nm (22 ft. lbs.) .
Position the secondary chain onto the camshaft drive gear, making sure one marked chain link is on either side of the V8 mark on the gear and position the gear onto the camshaft.
Install the camshaft drive gear retaining bolt.
Install the left side secondary chain guide.
Install the cylinder head access plug.
Re-set and Install the left side secondary chain tensioner.
Remove Special Tool 8515.
Install the timing chain cover.
Install the crankshaft damper. Tighten damper bolt 175 Nm (130 Ft. Lbs.) .
Install the power steering pump.
Install the fan blade assembly and fan shroud.
Install the cylinder head cover.
Install the intake manifold.
Refill the cooling system
Raise the vehicle.
Install the exhaust pipe onto the left exhaust manifold.
Lower the vehicle.
Connect the negative cable to the battery.
Start the engine and check for leaks.










© 2009 ALLDATA LLC. All rights reserved.
Terms of Use

 

[ApriliaGuy]

Yeah....what he said :lol:



Have you considered selling it? :wink:

 

[07lmnt]

Here's the right side head. This job is extremely complicated.
Removal and Installation-Right
Notes

REMOVAL


Disconnect battery negative cable.
Raise the vehicle on a hoist.
Disconnect the exhaust pipe at the right side exhaust manifold.
Drain the engine coolant. Refer to Cooling System.
Lower the vehicle.
Remove the intake manifold.
Remove the cylinder head cover.
Remove the fan shroud. Refer to Cooling System.
Remove oil fill housing from cylinder head.
Remove accessory drive belt.
Rotate the crankshaft until the damper timing mark is aligned with TDC indicator mark (Fig. 50).
Verify the V8 mark on the camshaft sprocket is at the 12 o'clock position (Fig. 52). Rotate the crankshaft one turn if necessary.
Remove the crankshaft damper.
Remove the timing chain cover. Refer to Timing Components.
Lock the secondary timing chains to the idler sprocket using Special Tool 8515 (Fig. 51). NOTE: Mark the secondary timing chain prior to removal to aid in installation.
Mark the secondary timing chain, one link on each side of the V8 mark on the camshaft drive gear (Fig. 52).
Remove the right side secondary chain tensioner. Refer to Timing Components.






Fig. 57



Remove the cylinder head access plug (Fig. 57).
Remove the right side secondary chain guide. Refer to Timing Components.
Remove the retaining bolt and the camshaft drive gear. CAUTION: Do not allow the engine to rotate. severe damage to the valve train can occur. CAUTION: Do not overlook the four smaller bolts at the front of the cylinder head. Do not attempt to remove the cylinder head without removing these four bolts. CAUTION: Do not hold or pry on the camshaft target wheel for any reason. A damaged target wheel can result in a vehicle no start condition. NOTE: The cylinder head is attached to the cylinder block with fourteen bolts.
Remove the cylinder head retaining bolts.
Remove the cylinder head and gasket. Discard the gasket. CAUTION: Do not lay the cylinder head on its gasket sealing surface, do to the design of the cylinder head gasket any distorxion to the cylinder head sealing surface may prevent the gasket from properly sealing resulting in leaks.
INSTALLATION

NOTE: The cylinder head bolts are tightened using a torque plus angle procedure. The bolts must be examined BEFORE reuse. If the threads are necked down the bolts should be replaced.

Necking can be checked by holding a straight edge against the threads. If all the threads do not contact the scale, the bolt should be replaced (Fig. 54).

CAUTION: When cleaning cylinder head and cylinder block surfaces, DO NOT use a metal scraper because the surfaces could be cut or ground. Use only a wooden or plastic scraper.







Fig. 58



Clean the cylinder head and cylinder block mating surfaces (Fig. 58).
Position the new cylinder head gasket on the locating dowels. CAUTION: When installing cylinder head, use care not damage the tensioner arm or the guide arm.
Position the cylinder head onto the cylinder block. Make sure the cylinder head seats fully over the locating dowels. NOTE: The four smaller cylinder head mounting bolts require sealant to be added to them before installing. Failure to do so may cause leaks.
Lubricate the cylinder head bolt threads with clean engine oil and install the ten M10 bolts.
Coat the four M8 cylinder head bolts with Mopar Lock and Seal Adhesive then install the bolts. NOTE: The cylinder head bolts are tightened using an angle torque procedure, however, the bolts are not a torque-to-yield design.






Fig. 59



Tighten the bolts in sequence (Fig. 59) using the following steps and torque values:
Step 1: Tighten bolts 1-10, 20 Nm (15 ft. lbs.) .
Step 2: Tighten bolts 1-10, 47 Nm (35 ft. lbs.) . Tighten bolts 11-14, 25 Nm (18 ft. lbs.) .
Step 3: Tighten bolts 1-10, 90 degrees. Tighten bolts 11-14, 30 Nm (22 ft. lbs.) .
Position the secondary chain onto the camshaft drive gear, making sure one marked chain link is on either side of the V8 mark on the gear and position the gear onto the camshaft.
Install the camshaft drive gear retaining bolt.
Install the right side secondary chain guide.
Install the cylinder head access plug.
Re-set and install the right side secondary chain tensioner.
Remove Special Tool 8515.
Install the timing chain cover.
Install the crankshaft damper. Tighten damper bolt 175 Nm (130 Ft. Lbs.) .
Install accessory drive belt.
Install the fan shroud.
Install the cylinder head cover.
Install the intake manifold.
Install oil fill housing onto cylinder head.
Refill the cooling system.
Raise the vehicle.
Install the exhaust pipe onto the right exhaust manifold.
Lower the vehicle.
Reconnect battery negative cable.
Start the engine and check for leaks.










© 2009 ALLDATA LLC. All rights reserved.
Terms of Use

 

[Basset Box]

Start from the begining....

What was the orig problem? Running rough? Overheating? Burning coolant?

Oil in the coolant? Coolant in the oil?


Yeah, you wanna get a service manual. It is a big book (or cd) that tells you how to test things, and then take 'em apart, fix, or replace the bad stuff.

Good luck.

Initial problem: boiling sound coming from passenger side of car. Vehicle was devouring coolant. I replaced a few gallons in a few weeks. Water pump was replaced as well as the fan clutch. A week later, I left work and when I accelerated from a stop it began sounding very loud, with a weakened throttle response. It idled still, but poorly. I turned it off to figure out a plan. The mechanic was 1/4 mile away so I started it up, drove it over and left it there for a month and got my E. I am going to have someone come over and do a leak down test on it. Gotta figure out what is wrong before I even dare to take anything apart.

My best option is to either sell it or have someone do the work. This is a very intimidating task. I would love to do some of the work to save on labor, but I also don't want to screw anything up. I am having the car detailed this week to get it pretty in case someone wants to check it out to buy.

 

[Justinb845]

ok I have looked at this and decided something for you.....BLOW IT UP!
DONE
questions on how to do this?
1. Assemble tools.(Cinder Block, Fire Extinguisher)
2. Start Car
3. Drop block on gas pedal
4. Walk away
5. When loud noise or fire starts......

Problem solved

 

[ramblerdan]

Depends on whether you want a project or just to get it out of your hair.

 

[Basset Box]

Depends on whether you want a project or just to get it out of your hair.

Project = :-x:-x:-x

At this point, after 07lmnt so kindly overwhelmed me with directions, my approach is to find a more reasonable price. I also don't want to be jerked around and some of this excellent information is helping out (even if some members are recommending death :evil. I joined a Jeep forum to see what their take is and am waiting to here back. The sad part is, there are plenty of similar threads and most of the discussion on there is damage and repairs, not MODs and adventures.

 

[Dom.five]

Project = :-x:-x:-x

At this point, after 07lmnt so kindly overwhelmed me with directions, my approach is to find a more reasonable price. I also don't want to be jerked around and some of this excellent information is helping out (even if some members are recommending death :evil. I joined a Jeep forum to see what their take is and am waiting to here back. The sad part is, there are plenty of similar threads and most of the discussion on there is damage and repairs, not MODs and adventures.

That's what this forum started out to be also. However, with Honda, The threads would be far and few between.

This forum has taken an alternate route. It still holds all the information about the repairs, as the others do. Then it has all the information about the Mods, and adventures. That's what sets it apart from the other boring car sights!

Good luck

Dom

 

[Brawsie]

[/COLOR]



That's what this forum started out to be also. However, with Honda, The threads would be far and few between.

This forum has taken an alternate route. It still holds all the information about the repairs, as the others do. Then it has all the information about the Mods, and adventures. That's what sets it apart from the other boring car sights!

Good luck

Dom

Agreed. I've noticed that many honda forums are this way.

Good luck with the jeep.:sad:

 

[hotrodder]

The mechanic told me they did the test 2 or 3 times and it confirmed a blown head gasket. I asked and they did not do a leak down test. The car did trip a code that said a fault occurred in a valve/cylinder (not sure of specifics) as well. I will make sure to ask a few more questions. Think I can rent a compression tester? I think they drained the coolant when they did some tests (reserve reservoir is empty), do I need to get the thing running to do this test?

What was the code it registered? It sounds like a simple water pump leak was allowed to grow into a coolant loss/overheating issue, leading to a stressed head gasket. I was suspicious of the burnt valve diagnoses for that isn't as common these days.

Decent, screw-in compression gauges are relatively cheap.
Once you get all the crap out of the way, the engine itself is simple to take apart.

I'm curious where the fluid went after the water pump replacement, unless the head gasket was already history. It isn't necessary to drain the system for the test. When they did the water pump replacement, did they purge the system? Was the thermostat replaced also? To"get the thing running"---will it not start and run at all? As mentioned earlier, is there water in the oil, water running down the side of the block, white smoke pouring out the tailpipe while running?

I'm glad you bought your E or I wouldn't be able to say--- this has become interesting.

 

[ApriliaGuy]

The sad part is, there are plenty of similar threads and most of the discussion on there is damage and repairs, not MODs and adventures.

Damage and repairs are an adventure....as you will soon find out.
(when you either throw it to the "low baller" wolves and LookyLous on Craigslist, or attempt the repairs yourself.)

It don't matter if your glass is half full or half empty.....what matters is weather it contains beer or horse piss.

 

[Basset Box]

What was the code it registered? It sounds like a simple water pump leak was allowed to grow into a coolant loss/overheating issue, leading to a stressed head gasket. I was suspicious of the burnt valve diagnoses for that isn't as common these days.

Decent, screw-in compression gauges are relatively cheap.
Once you get all the crap out of the way, the engine itself is simple to take apart.

I'm curious where the fluid went after the water pump replacement, unless the head gasket was already history. It isn't necessary to drain the system for the test. When they did the water pump replacement, did they purge the system? Was the thermostat replaced also? To"get the thing running"---will it not start and run at all? As mentioned earlier, is there water in the oil, water running down the side of the block, white smoke pouring out the tailpipe while running?

I'm glad you bought your E or I wouldn't be able to say--- this has become interesting.

Water pump was replaced prior to the gasket issue. I assume the coolant was just boiling away, but I don't know what can/will happen. I do not think the thermostat was replaced. I do not know if they purged but it was good on coolant after the repair. I just added coolant, filled the battery with water, and got a jump off the E. It started fine and made the metallic sound that I heard when it first happened. White smoke was coming out of the exhaust. I wouldn't say it was pouring out, but it smelled weird and I did notice whiteness. I assume that is bad and possibly means burnt valve?

 

[ramblerdan]

Sounds more like you're burning coolant.

 

[IRV]

Head Gasket....and whatever else.

 

[Basset Box]

Sounds more like you're burning coolant.

I concur. Next on the list... MONEY!

 

[hotrodder]

Head Gasket....and whatever else.

+1 on the head gasket diagnoses----with the supplied given factors, just sell it as is----Mechanic Special For Sale