My 09 E was due for it's first oil change, so I brought it in to the dealer last Friday.

At somewhere between 5300 and 5400 miles, the L1 code and the 15% oil life message came up on my dashboard. I was about to take it in anyway, so the timing was perfect.

Anyway, I was seriously thinking about putting synthetic oil in but since I would probably be changing oil at about the 7500-mile mark if I did so, I asked the service guy if the oil life computer could be adjusted to allow for the longer oil-change interval with synthetic, or would the L1 code and 15% oil life message continue to come on at 5400 miles or so (As you know, when that code comes up, you can no longer see your mileage or the outside temp reading.). He said there is no way for the computer to know if there was regular oil or synthetic oil in the vehicle so, yes, the codes would continue to come up at the lower mileage.

Was he right ? Any way to "adjust" the computer for this ?

Thanks.

He is correct. The MM system does not care what kind of oil is in the engine. It looks at a set of operation perameters and caculates oil life that way.

 

Oil Life Monitor

Is there any documentation on exactly how the oil life algorithm works, or is it Honda proprietary? On my 2007 LX, it seems like the computed oil life remaining increments slowly until I get close to the next 5000 mile increment, then the algorithm accelerates so that I won't go more than 5000 miles between changes. Has anyone else seen this behavior?:twisted:

 

The oil change interval is based on how the vehicle is being driven, and operating parameters encountered, and is fairly complex. Though it can't tell what oil you put in, it CAN tell things like operating temp, oil pressure, and other engine tell-tails., which can change according to the oil quality and type of oil used. I'd bet money that the oil change interval will be different dino oil vs. syn oil. It certainly was on another car-make a friend had, when he put in some on-sale dino oil on one oil change. He went back to synthetic real fast.

ps. have seen intervals as high as 7K - 8K on Mobil-1, so it just doesn't count down to 5,000 miles. I could see maybe an "accelerated" countdown on dino oil, as it nears end-of-life and begins to break down and degrade (showing up in temp and pressure readings).

 

Reset oil life to 100%

I'm not a big fan of letting an onboard computer chip determine when I change my oil or perform "mandatory" maintenance of any sort. I stick with mileage, known conditions, and visual inspections. Since you have the added inconvenience of outside temperature being obscured, I suggest resetting the oil life to 100% and keeping to a mileage schedule. I think the instructions to reset are in the owners manual (it is for the '08).

 

I'm not a big fan of letting an onboard computer chip determine when I change my oil or perform "mandatory" maintenance of any sort. I stick with mileage, known conditions, and visual inspections.

I'm the opposite. If Honda engineers spend a couple of hundred thousand $$$ and several years building and refining a computer system that monitors and protects the engine they designed and built with maintenance reminders. I'll rely on that vs. pencil marks on a calendar. :grin:

But, then I work with computers every day, so I know what they are capable of.

 

Yup....just reset it and schedule your oil changes the old fashioned way.

 

I'm the opposite.

Same here. There's absolutely nothing magic about 5000 (or 3000 or 7500, etc.) miles. It's a loose "SWAG" where the engineers have determined the average service life in the very broadest sense of the word "average", and marketing has severely rounded-off the number to something convenient that common folk might remember over the entire life of the vehicle - even after considering that the change interval should also adjust to compensate for engine wear.

The computer will do a much, much superior job of considering heat load, RPM, demand cycles and engine hours in determining engine lube replacement intervals. The only thing it doesn't know is the type of oil, and therefore has to incorporate an average for computing that part of it.

The only thing better than instrumented intelligent guesses by the computer is to live your life by the "used oil analysis", which assesses engine and lubricant condition by actual laboratory analysis of the oil. Not too expensive, but, frankly, sort of a messy pain to deal with, and, in the end, sort of a 1% of 1% thing.

 

The only thing better than instrumented intelligent guesses by the computer is to live your life by the "used oil analysis", which assesses engine and lubricant condition by actual laboratory analysis of the oil. Not too expensive, but, frankly, sort of a messy pain to deal with, and, in the end, sort of a 1% of 1% thing.

I'm Mike on this one! I do the Lab analysis on mine about once a year! I send out the oil from my boat to be tested each season. ( It gives me a good Idea of the Diesel engines internal condition.) So I include a quick sample of my Elements Engine oil as well.

I have taking the sample down to a science now. I have modified an old Turkey baster style anti freeze tester with a 2 foot long piece of plastic tubing. No mess at all now !!

Oh ,, The results have shown that I am able to go an additional 4,000 on synthetic vs standard petroleum based oil. That's just a bit over the 1% mike was talking about. Still, I don't like to extend the interval much beyond 7,000 miles. I think that is my comfort zone. When I have the test run on standard oil, With my driving style/conditions, 3,000 to 3,500 miles and it's nearing the end of it's life.

In short, In MY car, in this area, considering MY driving style, I get a slightly more than 50% gain in oil life with synthetic.

Without the laboratory oil analysis, I would have no way of knowing this. In fact, if I had to guess, I would never have come to that conclusion.

Dom

 

I am at 29000 on my SC & changed my oil yesterday.
I changed the filter and switched to synthetic oil starting at 1718 miles.
Since then I have seen my oil life via the monitor rise consistently the first couple of changes, then show a slight rise thereafter.

Here are the mileage intervals between oil & filter changes:
3952 (odometer 5670)
4830 (odometer 10500)
6070 (odometer 16570)
6119 (odometer 22689)
6312 (odometer 29001)

 

Hi Jay:
Interesting

Pretty much shows the Honda E engine break-in period, as described by the Honda engineers.

I guess the computer knows it's $hit, when it comes to how the engine and oil are performing. :-D

 

My first change was at 7800 miles and it was still reading 30%, but I had it done because I was going on a long trip...now it has 13890 and it is still at 40%.....must be the way I drive ( all hwy ) mostly 50-70 mph...hardly any city driving.....hope the computers figure it properly.

 

I was always told not to switch to synthetic until 20k miles. Any thoughts?

 

The purpose of using the regular oil is to allow the rings to break-in properly...you may also have metallic particles left over from the build in the motor..the break-in oil will clean it out.. synthetic oil is very slippery and you dont want that with a "new" motor. Which is why Honda says not to change the initial break-in oil they put in a new E "early". But after the first oil-minder, synthetic should be fine. Waiting 20K is old-school. Engine manufacturing has gotten a lot better - so less break-in is needed. And any final break-in does continue with synthetic oil, just at a much slower pace.

 

I use mobile one and trust the computer. I get between 7k and 8k between oil changes. Time will tell. So far I have put about 60k on it in two years.

 

As you know, when that code comes up, you can no longer see your mileage or the outside temp reading.

If you tap the odometer button it will bring back the mileage and outside temp. But you probably knew that already, right?

 

Absolutely !!

Everyone reads the manual !


Dom

 

 

My first oil change went to 4,794 @ 15% and I switched to Mobil 1 5w20 I haven't looked back. Every oil changes has increased in intervals and I do alot of city (traffic) driving. BTW I couldn't wait to get the breakin oil changed... it made me nervous to go that high with dino oil.

 

I use synthetic in my E, and I completely ignore the oil minder. I don't know that they did invest thousands of dollars into the system. They could have spent $4 on it. If the oil minder isn't testing the quality of the oil, just driving conditions, then its worthless. That assumes that all oils are the same.

 

IF the oil minder isn't testing the quality it's worthless." And how do you know it isn't? The ECU has hundreds of sensors that measure all kinds of operating conditions. You think the engine management computer can't extrapolate the condition of the engine oil by tracking operating temperatures, emission temperatures, and maybe half a doz. other indicators over time - from at oil change to "due for change" - how do you think it counts down that percentage? It's based on comparisons of multiple sensor readings over time, and using the changes in the readings to determine oil life remaining.

Not to mention it keeps a record of you NOT changing your oil when "minded". Good luck getting any engine warranty coverage if something happens, if you can't prove that you changed your oil at or better than what the oil-minder indicated.

And since Owners have reported a marked difference in oil-change intervals, under same driving conditions, synthetic oil vs dino oil, the ECU seems be able to tell the difference very well.

Love that statement: I don't know what they invested in it, so I'm just going to ignore it.

Yeah - great philosophy - I can see it spreading, I don't know what they spent making that safety rope, if it is actually built to spec, to prevent me falling to my death off that 5,000 foot mountain - so I'm just going to ignore it and not use it... :|

 

Let's bring it down a notch, please.

 

I would say just go with what makes you the most comfortable. Dino or Synthetic, schedule or MM. It's your wallet.

I always liked it when I had my old Dodge Ram that had 80K when I traded it in on the Ridge.

The Valvoline people always wanted me to switch to the high mileage oil once I got to the 75K mark. I took the manager into the waiting area and pointed out to him on their own poster that their regular oil was guranteed up to 150k, so I couldn't see any sense in changing to a higher priced product.

Back in the day, maybe it was best to do a 3K oil and filter change schedule. But with new techniques in refining and additives, plus all the advances in metallurgy and engine design, I can't understand this rigid adherance to the 3k oil change doctrine. It's almost like a religion some times when you get to reading one of these oil threads. ;-)

 

Back in the day, maybe it was best to do a 3K oil and filter change schedule. But with new techniques in refining and additives, plus all the advances in metallurgy and engine design, I can't understand this rigid adherance to the 3k oil change doctrine. It's almost like a religion some times when you get to reading one of these oil threads. ;-)

Back in College (many moons ago) we actually studied this in a Marketing class. Even years ago, way before synthetic oils, auto manufactures recommended oil changes at 5K mile intervals. The Pennzoil marketing dept. was tasked with developing an advertising program to boost sales. They came up with "change your oil every 3,000 miles to protect your engine from damage" - advertised the heck out of it on billboards, newspapers, magazines, etc, and convinced a large section of the American driver population that it was gospel. And boosted their sales by 60%. :grin:
Pretty sharp group of marketeers.

 

I don't think any of these systems have a magical "oil quality sensor" but use an algorithm designed around the recommended oil and parameters for vehicle use.

My SAAB has an oil minder system but it is "calibrated" for the recommended synthetic oil - they are very specific about which oil (a certain type of Mobil 1 or Castrol). The owners manual states that if you use a different oil then the oil minder can no longer be used as a guide for oil change interval. That car is 6 cyl. turbo charged engine which can be hard on oil and the mileage between change reminders tends to run between 8 and 11K miles depending on how I run the car.

On the Element I use Mobil 1 and the change interval has come around between 5 and 6K miles - same as it did for the factory fill dino oil. Based on my experience I think Honda's system does not have a special oil quality sensor but the algorithm used is calibrated for the driving conditions and the lowest common denominator oil type (not a synthetic). If it adjusted for synthetic oil the interval should be much longer than 5-6K miles, especially as those are primarily hwy miles, not short trips.

 

The 07+ Element's oil minder does take into account operating temperature as part of its' algorithm. I have no clue how precise it is. So it may "self adjust" a little for different oil types.

I would try to keep pretty close to the recommended change interval. The engine oil also lubricates the timing chain and tensioner. Those parts do not do well with dirty oil.

Also, I wouldn't put it past Honda to store the miles you go past 0% without having the system reset. They could potentially use that data to imply that certain wear is due to not following the maintenance requirements. However, resetting the light is not that hard to do and the instructions are in the manual.

 

Keep in mind that I had my oil changed at the dealership (provided my own oil and filter) in order to get an inspection and the did not reset my MM. You could easily say you forgot to do it if that was ever brought up. It isn't in the manual so if someone changes their own oil, they may not have the EOC to give them the tips. Very few cars have that black box type of memory. I came across a thread once about the GTR and the new ones actually have a full blown black box that remember everything. They also have a feature called launch control that allows you to turn off traction control and a few other engine/driving safety features but if you do, the black box remembers it and the entire warranty is voided.

 

Back to the MM and synthetic oil. Here's an illustration of what I was trying to point out: http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=841380&postcount=12

Using Honda's tools, the MM data can be read and used to deny warranty service.

 

The MM told the tech nothing, the guy reset it even when he didn't change the oil. The guy's own idiotic words are what put him in that position. Manufacturers can challenge you to prove oil changes whether your car has a MM or not. If that retard didn't take in the oil analysis, and brag to the mechanic of the car manufacturer that not only is he using non-ASE oil, or going way past the recommended oil change intervals he would have been fine.

 

Oil Change Gone Wrong

My friendly neighborhood Honda dealer has an area on their website where one can schedule a service. I scheduled a 1-B service and specified Mobil 1 0W-20 oil and that I would provide the Mobil 1 filter. I got a confirmation call from the service department the next day to review my request.

I arrived for my service at the designated time and space coordinates a few days later. My regular service write-em-up guy greeted me and I told him I had made an appointment for a 1-B service. That should have been enough but alas, it wasn't.

When I paid my bill I noted that the cost was lower than expected even with the discounts I received... $42 when I was told to expect $59 for a synthetic oil change. I got to the car and the oil filter which was to have been used was still in the passenger seat. I returned to see the service write-em-up guy and told him that I had specified on my service request Mobil 1 0W-20 and I was providing the filter. As the filter was unused, I would presume that my requested oil was not installed. He said that he did not find my service request in the system and that I had gotten the oil recommended on the oil cap, 5W-20 (dino, I would also presume).

Not being a whiny customer, I assured him that all was well since whatever oil they installed was the same type of oil which was in the car when I bought it last December, so no harm. I was looking for an improvement in fuel mileage with the Mobil 1 since I have a 2500 mile trip next week. Every little bit helps.

I shouldn't have to, but next time I will be extremely specific on what oil I want in my Element.

As always, YMMV. I got 8000 miles out of that last oil before the MM hit 5%.

 

My friendly neighborhood Honda dealer has an area on their website where one can schedule a service. I scheduled a 1-B service and specified Mobil 1 0W-20 oil and that I would provide the Mobil 1 filter. I got a confirmation call from the service department the next day to review my request.

I arrived for my service at the designated time and space coordinates a few days later. My regular service write-em-up guy greeted me and I told him I had made an appointment for a 1-B service. That should have been enough but alas, it wasn't.

When I paid my bill I noted that the cost was lower than expected even with the discounts I received... $42 when I was told to expect $59 for a synthetic oil change. I got to the car and the oil filter which was to have been used was still in the passenger seat. I returned to see the service write-em-up guy and told him that I had specified on my service request Mobil 1 0W-20 and I was providing the filter. As the filter was unused, I would presume that my requested oil was not installed. He said that he did not find my service request in the system and that I had gotten the oil recommended on the oil cap, 5W-20 (dino, I would also presume).

Not being a whiny customer, I assured him that all was well since whatever oil they installed was the same type of oil which was in the car when I bought it last December, so no harm. I was looking for an improvement in fuel mileage with the Mobil 1 since I have a 2500 mile trip next week. Every little bit helps.

I shouldn't have to, but next time I will be extremely specific on what oil I want in my Element.

As always, YMMV. I got 8000 miles out of that last oil before the MM hit 5%.

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience wyour oil change.

At our shop the are specific steps that are to be followed when the service writer is opening a work order.

1. Confirm with the customer the service that we are performing and make sure the repair order lists and special requests made by the customers.

2. Review the cost of the specified service with the customer.

3. Have the customer sign the repair order to acknowledge the agreed price and authorize work to be performed.

Had these basic steps been performed this issue could have and should have been avoided.

The other problem here is that when the "tech" seen the oil filter on the seat he should have questioned it. Unfortunately most guys will go by what is written on the repair order and if they didn't read that you supplied the filter they would just do the oil and filter change as they normally would.

 

I have been using Moble 1 and a moble 1 filter since day 1 and it's fantastic:grin:. What is this nonsence about a so called self destruct loose your warranty kill all end all button:shock:. I dont beleave in this B.S. the button is thair for a reson, and IMPO it's not to kill your warrenty.

 

What is this nonsence about a so called self destruct loose your warranty kill all end all button:shock:. I dont beleave in this B.S. the button is thair for a reson, and IMPO it's not to kill your warrenty.

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=25361&st=0

Here is the forum I was reading about the GTR. Too bad our cars don't have enough power to trash the tranny.... :-(