AWD override plausible?

Outrageous_ideas · Sep 28, 2020

Hello everyone,

Ok, so first of all, I'm new to this forum and so feel free to point out my mistakes if there are any. Second, I do not own an Element although I do plan to own one somewhere down the road.

I want to pose a strictly hypothetical and/or theoretical question. "Is it possible to manually engage the AWD system?"

Now, before all the naysayers claim that it is nigh impossible, let me explain my train of thought first before we have a discussion whether it is actually theoretically plausible or not.

1. I understand that all Elements have got a fully mechanical clutch pack that engages/disengages the AWD system based on pressure difference as a result of front to back wheel speed difference.
2. I also understand that despite Honda having an electronic AWD system, this was introduced much later after the Elements where out of production and I have not seen any successful swap and I imagine it would be too complicated to consider.
3. Looking at various schematics and illustrations on the AWD system, there is a front and a rear pump, albeit connected physically, that drives a piston and in turn engages the clutch pack for the AWD to engage as a result of pressure differences(as mentioned in point 1).
4. Is it then possible(regardless of effort, expense, and tools) to introduce a hole into one or both of the pumps connected to an oil pump of sorts and artificially manipulate the pressures to encourage locking?

A lot of this is curiosity and being unable to satisfy my own curiosity with the lack of space and resources to experiment on my own.

Thanks!

psschmied · Oct 1, 2020

Most things you can imaging about changing a mechanical systems designed operation are theoretically possible. This all-wheel drive system was developed by the CR-V and have been proven to be very reliable with a 1 mpg average "hit" on fuel efficiency.

The front and rear pumps are both within the rear differential housing, in the oil pump body. To provide a manual override you would need to introduce an external hydraulic pressure beyond check valves E and F to drive the clutch.

The question is what benefit do you believe you will get by forcing the rear axle to be driven when there is no loss of front axle traction that would require it?

Outrageous_ideas · Oct 1, 2020

psschmied said:
The question is what benefit do you believe you will get by forcing the rear axle to be driven when there is no loss of front axle traction that would require it?

I fully agree with this and in my driving life have had no problems with fwd and good tires driving on sketchy snowed/iced roads. Having said that, I am lead to believe that engaging full front to back lock is ideal if starting from a standstill were traction is limited? Am I mistaken? Consider being snowed in while out in a slightly remote camping ground (imagine hunting the auroras if you will - kinda the whole reason why I wanna own an E down the road), will it not be a good situation to have full lock? Or will the slip and grip work itself out? Mind you, I know that choosing an E for the said activity is kinda pushing it but I have not seen a better platform for camping(cost and space wise) than the E.

PS. I thank you for providing the PDF. I've had a hard time looking for the brief on the AWD system. Looking at it now, it doesn't seem easy even to gain access to the pump body to manipulate internal pressures. Do you have one for the Real Time AWD with intelligent control system?

Cheers!🍻

mwishk · Oct 2, 2020

RT4WD is achievable with an Element. The CRV folks and Civic drag racers have developed the modifications.
Simply add an LSD front and rear, pin the clutch pack in the rear differential, remove the dual pump and put a Land Rover Freelander viscous coupling in the driveshaft. It's not capable of being switched on and off manually, but all four tires will spin in a traction limited situation

Outrageous_ideas · Oct 2, 2020

mwishk said:
It's not capable of being switched on and off manually, but all four tires will spin in a traction limited situation

I know I'm starting to sound like I'm asking for a capability not intended for by the E; like asking for hot iced coffee. And really thinking about it, that 1% of the time when I need to get out of a rut presumably from being snowed in while camping, I could just use a winch. But I kinda would like to have modern AWD configurability, sending x% of torque to the back via manipulation of clutch pressure, on the E just cuz.

mwishk said:
Simply add an LSD front and rear, pin the clutch pack in the rear differential, remove the dual pump and put a Land Rover Freelander viscous coupling in the driveshaft.

From the sound of it, this seems like a tried and tested solution but it also sounds like a lot of parts and work. Is there a particular reason why Honda's "Real Time AWD with intelligent control system" has not been successfully swapped into the E yet? Or is there one just not documented?

mwishk · Oct 2, 2020

Ya never know! Guys are doing crazy stuff all the time. You may consider searching CRV boards as opposed to Element specific ones. There are FAR more CRV's out there and they have a significant following for off road & 4wd mods. Might glean more information if you float your question there?
This board is a great resource for all kinds of cool modifications and enhancements unique to the Element, but less so with driveline stuff

AWD override plausible?

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