[Tim Vance]

I need help from our more astute EOCer's...I'm at a loss to figure this one out.

In August 2007 we replaced the battery with the Optima 34. Everything has been great up until a couple of weeks ago. The E started to have a bit of trouble starting...it felt like the battery wasn't charged up, and was having trouble starting in the morning...but it would still turn over, and run fine. Since I travel about 160 km (100 miles) a day, there was no question in my mind that the battery should be getting fully charged, every day.

Then a couple of weeks ago, it sat most of the long weekend, and wouldn't start on the Tuesday morning. I had to boost it to get it started (it started right away with the boost), and ran to work and back with no problem. It ran all week with no problems. Then, on Sunday morning, it wouldn't start again. So we took it to Walmart to have them check it out (we bought the battery at Sam's, but they've closed all the Sam's on Ontario, so we had to take it to Wally World) I put it on the charger for a few hours before we took it in. They tested it, and said the positive cable was a bit loose, and tightened it up, and everything was fine again.

This past weekend, we came out on Saturday morning, and again, it wouldn't start. I put it on the charger, and left it there most of the day, until the charger said the battery was fully charged. Took it back to WallyWorld, and this time they tested it with their tester, and said it was ok. ( I had a bit of a discussion with them, because they only do a volt test on it, and I told them, repeatedly that it was on the charger all day, so of course it shows 12.66 V!!!)
I was really ticked off, so we took it home, and I read thru all the posts here, and everything I could find.
Sunday morning it wouldn't start again, so I took the battery out, and looked at all the cabling, and everything I could see. The ground to the engine, and the body looked a little green, so I thought 'screw it', and went out and bought 2 new cables, and replaced both grounds. Cleaned everything up, made sure I had shiny metal everywhere, and hooked it all back up. I had the battery on the charger while I was doing all this, out of the car.

It still wouldn't start. Now, this is where it gets a bit weird. It isn't a matter of it won't start at all...I chuggs then clicks...like the battery is dead, or not enough charge to start the vehicle. I let it sit for a minute, and I get just the dead battery whirring....
If it sits for a couple more minutes, it starts, like nothing is wrong.

So, since I'm now thinking it sounds alot to me like a dead cell (ya, I know...Optima...I read that thread, but I know what a dead cell sounds like...) So I took it out of the E, and over to Canadian Tire, because they have a machine to do load tests. The result is that the battery is good, fully charged, and showing 13.4 V So I put it all back together again...

Monday morning it starts, and off to work I go. Around noon I go to the bank. I starts fine again. I come out of the bank, and it won't start. Try again, it won't start. Again, same thing. Open the hood, look around, nope, close the hood, and it starts.

The E runs just fine. There are no warning lights, the charging light comes on just as it should, and goes out when the vehicle starts, everything runs just fine. There is no lights dimming, or normal warning signs that would indicate a fault with the charging system, even when we put everything on, and apply load to the system.

I'm thinking the next step is to take it in, and have it tested, but I think it will be a waste of money, because if there was a problem, it should indicate, and at least throw a code...which it's not doing.

Anyone wanna offer some advise?

 

[Tim Vance]

I actually thought about that...thinking it could be a grounding issue at the starter - it's AT, so doesn't have a solenoid...(I have the shop manual)

Have you seen where the starter is? LOL

So, it looks like I'll have to borrow the father in laws ramps this weekend, and get under it.

Anyone else? I'd like as many idea's as possible please, since it looks like this is going to be 'let's try this, and see if it works' approach.
As long as I only try one thing at a time, eventually I have to find out what it is...

I've thought about the fuse block, and possibly a wiring problem, but I', really not about to start pulling on wires to see if something might be wrong there, until I absolutely have to

 

[Tim Vance]

I'd run a continuity test on the ground (-) cable. They can crud up inside.
se

I've replaced the ground to the frame and the engine already

 

[Tim Vance]

So I've been shopping around based on some great info here.
First, you should know that you will not have any warantee unless you buy the exact Walmart battery (made by Exide) that their book recommends which is the 51R. Anything else voids the battery warantee. They are also going away from prorate after the initial 24 mo replace period is up. This came from 2 different Walmarts I talked to.
Sears DH gold batteries are once again manufactured by Johnson Control. They didn't seem to have a problem with buying a bigger battery, but won't install it for you if it's not what they recomend which is 51-R $90. Good 36mo/8 yr warantee.
The Napa 51R battery has only 18mo/65month and is $87 and is JohnCont. w 500/625 crank amps.
Costco seems to be exact same as above: JC with 500/625 amps, 36/100mo warantee, $56.99.
Looks like I'm heading to Costco and I might look at the group 35 like Arcturus bought...if I want to get into slight mods to make it fit. Will this bigger battery give me more radio time or just crank amps???

Hope that helps sum up things for anyone else in the market....

LOL
Which is a moot point, since they will NOT replace the battery for you in the vehicle....you have to take it out, and bring it to them...
Which kinda ticked me off, since mine was installed by Sam's club...
But Wally World, Sears, Costco, and pretty much any of these places want the battery on their counter, before they will even attempt to warranty it. It's also a good idea to have had it tested, and a copy of the test results with you when you bring it in, since most of these places are incapable of doing that.

On the subject of warranty, the battery is warrantied to perform as advertised, and they will not stop you from replacing it, as long as it's installed in a vehicle operating a 12v system (call a manager if they give you a hard time)

On an aside, this very 'principle' irritated the bejeebers outta me, and contributed to my 'discussion' with the Wally World 'mechanic' who tested my battery.
He said 'Well, I don't know why you need such a big battery in a 4 banger anyway.'

I couldn't stop myself...the words incompetent, and moron, and a few others came out of my mouth....I think I also mentioned that I understood why a parts changer like him could only find employment where he was....

 

[Tim Vance]

I have always bought used cars and I have had to replace numerous batteries after a normal time frame. I have always gone to Sears and purchased a Die Hard and had excellent results. Only once I had to take one back under warantee and I just drove up, they tested it in the car and then replaced it. Maybe that was the time period when they went away from JC batteries? Anyway, they would be my second choice in this situation. I like that they can run an electrical diagnosis for you if you want. Overall I've been happy and willing to pay for Sears customer service where I live. I'm going for the cost savings first though, thus costco.

Unfortunately Sears in Canada isn't the same as Sears in the US...
I too thought I was getting decent service, and a good deal on the battery I wanted...and the buggars closed all their stores. So, unless I want to drive to the US, I'm stuck with Wally World...which, I guess I'm prejudiced against already - I REALLY hate the place - never had a pleasant experience in any of their stores, and just hate them as a matter of principle. Of course, experiences like this don't help them much in my books either...

Given the options now, I would go to Canadian Tire for a battery before I would ever go back to WallyWorld. Hell, I would go to Sears too, or K Mart...or just about anywhere else...lol

 

[Tim Vance]

Tim,


Active Green and Ross took over a chunk of the Sears Auto Centers a few years back and they still offer Diehard batteries at most if not all locations.

You can even still use your Sears card.

I actually use the G&R in Limeridge Mall...attached to the Sears store...lol
Honestly, I've always seen the G&R sign, and it never really clued in to me that it used to be Sears...lol
But I just go there for oil changes...

 

[Tim Vance]

And the prize goes to......

SCORSONE!!!

You are the closest, without going over....lol

Turned out to be the starter...
Went out yesterday morning to go to work, and it wouldn't start at all.
Had it towed over to the local Honda Dealer, who did a full diagnostic - checked out the whole electrical system, everything ok, except the starter, which was completely dead. The price for a rebuilt vs new was close enough that we went with a new one. They had to order a new one in, and got the E back before noon today.

Kudos to Steve the Service Manager, and his crew at Sterling Honda in Hamilton ON for a GREAT job!!

 

[Tim Vance]

ground fault in the starter.
It would look like a power drain, but return a no start condition...

 

[Tim Vance]

Now, what did I win????:razz:

A no expense paid trip to GattiTown, and my heartfelt thanks!