My guess? And it's just a guess.....is that the manager wasn't there. Did you actually see the manager? I am thinking that he knew the offer was low, but if the manager wasn't there to give him a number for an actual counter offer, his hands were tied. I have not dealt alot with new car dealers (and the ones I have had were not pleasant - at one I did not get my keys back until I was on the phone - they did not think I was balsey enough to call 911 and report my trade in as stolen - they learned differently (and I called from their phone!)) so maybe that's all it was. Do they have your contact info? It's been a couple of weeks, maybe you should call and ask for the manager directly. I would not go in - that could show a little too much interest on your part that they could try to use against you. And whatever you do, don't give up your keys on the Beemer.

CoolE'sRule!

jeff

 

Edmunds is a pretty good source of "local" pricing - and they are saying invoice on an '09, with destination charge, $22, 650, and a "good" price is around $22K. Then take into account your "add-ons". You can look those prices up on the Honda "build-a" web site - and pretty much figure that the markup is 100% (if it retails for $500, the dealer pays $250 for it), and then figure in the labor for installation (no discounts given on that $90 per hour - the service area is a totally separate business/profit center - where nothing is discounted or free). So your were likely offering well below their cost. A better tack is to email your vehicle want/w add-ons to several dealers, letting them know you are ready to buy, and going with the Dealer who makes the best offer. Oh, and the Dealer (any Dealer) will not give you close to what you think you should get in trade. CarMax or private sale is only way to get close to "true" used value.

 

Could be the dealership nixed the offer because they can't (or won't) negotiate on parts and labor for accessories. You'd do well to buy the car without any accessories, purchase them online (at a much better price than MSRP), and install them yourself or use a reasonably priced mechanic. Most accessory installations are quite easy, despite Honda's wildly inflated labor charges for them. They appear to have a 0.5- or 1.0-hour minimum for everything, regardless of how simple it is. Look at their charge for installing floor mats, for example.

 

What Rambler said....

Plus realize that the Dealer makes very little profit on a new car.

Profits come from the sale of the accessories, service, financing kick-backs, factory incentives, and getting you to let go of your trade well below used wholesale, so they can mark it up to used retail and make 30% on it when they sell it.

 

I"ve made a few posts about this. When I bought my E in '03 at the end of the year I got an EX w/ AWD for just over $17k. I went w/ my sister to try to strike the same deal in Houston and they laughed at me.

I came back to SD and went to the SAME dealership about trading in my '03 for an '08 (non-AWD) and they said there was NO WAY they could do that. Even when I said "You guys have done it before!".

My only inclination is that the dealer's haven't gotten the message that it's a BUYER'S world. Good for you for walking out.

Try to get a model without any dealer 'add-on's' and offer a couple hundred over invoice. You can pay $15 to Consumer reports to get a listing of what they think the dealer paid for that vehilce from the factory, then add on any accessories and remember you still have to pay desitnation and TTL.

These dealers are smoking some serious crack.

 

Try selling your BMW yourself and then try to make a deal. Dealers have a hard time offering decent "trade in" $ when they are not making much or loosing money on the car being sold. All markets are pretty weak right now, including used cars.

 

Advice can be given a little bit better if some of the details of the offer are included.

Understand that the 09's are just hitting the lots so they're probably not hurting too bad to sell them off.

Another option can be to look at the installation instructions on H and A's website for some of your options.

The fog lights and security system are the most "difficult" of the installs probably to do. Contemplate doing the install on the others yourself.

 

Sometimes when cars are selling faster overall you have a better shot at getting a great deal on a slower selling car. If they can move the slower selling car even at a small loss and get a much higher demand car from Honda to fill the spot they will often go for that.

They have to move some of all of the models to get more of the 'hot' ones in their next shipment. If they get 2 Elements for every one of the latest 'in-demand' car then they are going to be working hard to move the Elements so they can get more of the cars that they can make a profit on.

When sales are slow on all models it doesn't do them any good to take a loss on one as the other won't sell for enough profit to make up for it.
They may be wanting to sell cars but it doesn't benefit them if they end up paying Honda $23,000 for the vehicle and only get $22,000 for it.

And it works even more against that with the low financing, less chance for making money in the long run from the deal.

So if you are looking to pay close to invoice and get a good APR it is a good time to shop. But it may not be such a good time to look for the absolutely killer deal.

Sometimes they may even be in a situation where if they sell enough cars they will meet a level that Honda set for them that will get them some more discount or other benefit from Honda. At those times they are more likely to 'give a few cars away'. I'd say now nobody is getting anywhere near their goals.

As, ramblerdan pointed out the accessories are usually not something that the sales department can adjust prices on. Usually the different departments are basically run as different businesses selling the parts and labor to each other so the sales department costs are often fixed on the accessories.

 

As, ramblerdan pointed out the accessories are usually not something that the sales department can adjust prices on. Usually the different departments are basically run as different businesses selling the parts and labor to each other so the sales department costs are often fixed on the accessories.

Excellent point. I sell 95% of my accessories to my sales department at a fixed percentage over cost. Occasionally i get good package deals...or Honda send us discounted packages that i may make a few dollars over cost on. Maybe things are different in the US...but i definately do not have a 100% up on accessories. If the ncd is tossing in accessories to make a deal it is coming out of their pockets....not mine.

 

It doesn't sound like you even gave them an opportunity to come back with what their number would be...so we have no idea how close or how far you were from a deal. I haven't bought many cars in my lifetime from a dealership but I would imagine walking in there...essentially slamming down a piece of paper and saying "this is what I will pay take it or leave it" is not going to result in much. I don't know if there are a lot of dealers in your area but you should probably contact a few via Email and get a few people to put something in writing. You are also talking about an 09 which are still not very plentiful and while not in huge demand, your buying technique would probably work better on a leftover 08 that's been on the lot all year. Best of luck.

 

Point taken, TheAntirice. However, I don't think I was rude about it --- at least, that certainly wasn't my intention. As I said, I did my research carefully and, although I know my offer was aggressively low, I don't think it was unreasonable. Also, as I said earlier, it was snowing like a banshee outside, with no other customers in sight. That, coupled with the state of the economy and (as was just reported on the news last night) the apparently large declines in December sales for all car makers, including Honda, plus the fact that I clearly stated that I was ready to buy then and there, made me think that they'd at least say, "Sorry, but your offer is just too low. However, we would be willing to do the deal if you back off on a couple of the accessories, or if you're willing to pay an additional $300 or $500, etc." That is, after all, what negotiations are all about, isn't it ? Offer and counteroffer until both parties reach a mutually agreeable compromise. I just never had a dealer NOT make some kind of counteroffer before, and I would think they'd at least want to try rather than see a customer walk out the door. They must know that there are lots of other dealerships within 50 or 100 miles that I can go to and might very well eventually work out a deal with one of them.

 

It IS really odd that the sales guy at least didn't come back out with "this is the best price we can do on that E/configuration..."

How many '09s did they have on the lot? Could be there was already some interest and the beginnings of deals in the works... so they were't interested in negotiating down on something they already had cooking and almost sold.

 

I didn't mean to imply you were being rude..sorry if that came off that way. I'm confused why they didn't try to at least make a deal but I guess your other option would be to leave your info with the sales guy and my guess is most likely they would end up calling you back within a day or two or maybe closer to the end of the month when they need to move a few cars.

 

From my experience buying multiple Honda's over the years is dont mess with adding accessories. As hard as I have pushed I have never gotten any Honda dealer to budge on the accessories. Just go in there and make a deal for the bare car and then just buy the accessories way cheaper online.

John

 

I think the word we are trying to say is 'be diplomatic'. Its a negotiation - two way street, so if you start too agressive and sound finalized, they may consider your offer not worth their efforts. I tried that before and got the dealer all angry / offended and never wanted me in their dealership again. I guess j***a** was a great way to describe.

Under invoice is a gamble....From my research a dealer holdback is to faciliate the dealers financing of new vehicles and to pay back interests occured if unsold for a prolonged period. So despite what car purchase advocate say about negotiating dealer holdbacks - forget it..unless they are on the lot for a long time then they will consider selling under invoice and forfeit their holdbacks. Think of this like buying & flipping a house, the longer it remains unsold the more interest you will incur, so the holdback is like rainyday money to counteract the possible interests for the dealership as a whole.

My suggestion is to add like $500 from the invoice..... then go to a website like HandA or Collegehills honda and see how much their accessories are and add to get a sum. This way you will get a better than MSRP deal on both the car / accessories and the dealer can make a bit of $$$. If there are any manufacturer discounts, then you minus from that total. You still save some money from the installation that can be absorbed during PDI. Use this as your second last offer, last offer probably add $100 or 200; and thats it.

From what I see your number is good for a bare car + a few minor accessories. But with all of your desired accessories, it will be a bit of a stretch. However, I still feel you number is good for first offer. Try talk to the users that have recently purchased under invoice, near your area and posted on EOC and contact their salesperson.

Shop around with those numbers online / by phone and see what other dealers have to say.

Good luck

 

I re-read your original post and you did give the details of the offer (my oversight).

I'd consider trying a similar offer with the exception of less options

Maybe drop the floor mats, splash guards and cargo cover and air deflector and see what kind of feedback you get.

Each of these is very simple and easy to install. When I bought my 03 used a few months back I wanted all season mats and splash guards. They would provide 1 but not both. (I think it was the install cost was the issue). I asked for both and said I'll install them, you provide them, and they did.