[synaps3]

My Element's not throwing any codes, and my Ultragauge II validates this. But, it will not pass emissions. The emissions sheet indicates KOEO and no check engine light is on. :twisted:

Has anyone else encountered this?

I have until Monday to fix it, otherwise I'll have to pay a fine for being late on renewing registration, even though all the other tests on the sheet (emissions, etc) come back clear.

 

[babock]

What is KOEO?

 

[Rustedwrench]

Any OBD-II emissions test starts with verification of the Check Engine light illuminating with the key-on, engine-off. If the light does not illuminate the vehicle will not be tested, in most locations.

In the case of the Element the Check Engine light should come on when the key is on and the engine off, then stay on for 15 to 20 seconds. After that it will go out if all the on-board test monitors are complete. That means the car should pass the emissions test. If the light does not go off after the delay time but flashes instead that would indicate one or more of the monitors are incomplete.

The Engine Control Module controls the Check Engine light by sending a signal over the vehicle network to the instrument cluster and the Gauge Control Module will turn on the light. A capable scan tool can do a function test of the instrument cluster to see if the Check Engine light will illuminate. If the light does not come on the fault is in the cluster. If the light comes on when testing the cluster then the fault lies with the ECM or the network connections. If all the other functions of the cluster are working that would eliminate the networks connections as the cause.

 

[Rustedwrench]

What is KOEO?

Key-on, engine-off.

 

[synaps3]

Any OBD-II emissions test starts with verification of the Check Engine light illuminating with the key-on, engine-off. If the light does not illuminate the vehicle will not be tested, in most locations.

In the case of the Element the Check Engine light should come on when the key is on and the engine off, then stay on for 15 to 20 seconds. After that it will go out if all the on-board test monitors are complete. That means the car should pass the emissions test. If the light does not go off after the delay time but flashes instead that would indicate one or more of the monitors are incomplete.

The Engine Control Module controls the Check Engine light by sending a signal over the vehicle network to the instrument cluster and the Gauge Control Module will turn on the light. A capable scan tool can do a function test of the instrument cluster to see if the Check Engine light will illuminate. If the light does not come on the fault is in the cluster. If the light comes on when testing the cluster then the fault lies with the ECM or the network connections. If all the other functions of the cluster are working that would eliminate the networks connections as the cause.

My OBD II reader and Ultragauge are not showing codes. Would Autozone's scan tool be able to check the cluster, or is that a dealer thing?

 

[tedsti]

Is the bulb/LED for the CEL burnt out or disabled? It looks like the problem is that the CEL does not come on when it should to validate that it works.

 

[Dana56]

I agree with Tedsti when you turn the key does the light come on as it should?

 

[synaps3]

The CEL never comes on, even during the pre-start sequence; if I put the key in and turn it to the on position without starting, it's never on. All the other lights pop up normally.

 

[Dana56]

Maybe you should try replacing the bulb.

 

[synaps3]

I took off the instrument panel, it looks like all accessible bulbs are for the backlights, not the actual indicators. Is there a guide for disassembly that anyone knows of, or should I just start pulling tabs and see what happens?:razz:

 

[Dana56]

You are correct I pulled my panel apart and the light is a LED. Have you tried wiggling the connections on the back of the panel with the key on to see if the light will illuminate?

 

[Rustedwrench]

My OBD II reader and Ultragauge are not showing codes. Would Autozone's scan tool be able to check the cluster, or is that a dealer thing?

A Professional aftermarket scan tool can usually do the cluster test. A generic code reader can not. I have no idea what kind of tool the parts sellers use.

 

[synaps3]

Ok, this is officially getting weird. I finally got around to tearing into this car today. I looked at the wiring loom and noticed... It's not the Honda standard loom or electrical tape. It's duct tape.

Let's look closer:

What the ****. Ok, so where do I go from here? Let's look closer. I removed the duct tape, and look, someone spliced two of the connectors together.

What the heck? Why would they do this?

Does anyone have a pinout for the speedometer input for the gauges so I can require these in? I can also fully disassemble the speedo unit and trace wires, but that's a hassle.

 

[synaps3]

I'm a bit weirded out right now. I couldn't remember if I had the emissions performed on the truck last year. I did, and this truck PASSED emissions when I owned it last year. I'm completely baffled. I have no idea why someone would have broken into my truck and rewired my speedometer? Maybe they missed the KOEO test somehow last year?

 

[Marv]

I can't tell from the photo the color of the wires that are spliced together. Could it be the yellow wire from connector A14 (the longer one) on the cluster and the grn/blu one from connector B14 (the shorter one)? If so, that might be a really ham-handed attempt to keep the MIL light from ever displaying. I'll try and attach a pdf of that portion of the wiring diag. and an image of the cluster back. Both good for the 2005. The best of luck unraveling this.

 

[Audiophyle]

The wiring looks completely normal ("duct tape" & all), so rest easy that no one has hacked up your speedometer wiring.

Shady car owners will black out the CEL (Check Engine Light) to pass off a vehicle as not having any problems. Yes it is a dated tactic & the biggest reason for the KOEO test, but it is also important because now you are aware that your car could throw a CEL & you would have no idea (without the scan tool). If you or anyone did not tamper with the CEL LED, then it is most likely that the integral LED has failed, and unfortunately is not a serviceable undertaking. You might be able to find a company online that can repair them, or if you are handy with a soldering iron you could crack it all open & try to replace it yourself. It is an SMD LED and not an easy component to desolder & resolder.

 

[synaps3]

The wiring looks completely normal ("duct tape" & all), so rest easy that no one has hacked up your speedometer wiring.

Uhhhhh

No it's not normal. It's legit duct tape and wire crimps. I've redone wiring harnesses in other cars, this is not normal.

I haven't gotten to taking apart the dash yet, but the PDF Marv uploaded looks helpful. I may be able to get somewhere with that. Otherwise, I'm going to have to go to a scrap yard and look at a harness there. :twisted:

 

[synaps3]

The wiring looks completely normal ("duct tape" & all), so rest easy that no one has hacked up your speedometer wiring.

Shady car owners will black out the CEL (Check Engine Light) to pass off a vehicle as not having any problems. Yes it is a dated tactic & the biggest reason for the KOEO test, but it is also important because now you are aware that your car could throw a CEL & you would have no idea (without the scan tool). If you or anyone did not tamper with the CEL LED, then it is most likely that the integral LED has failed, and unfortunately is not a serviceable undertaking. You might be able to find a company online that can repair them, or if you are handy with a soldering iron you could crack it all open & try to replace it yourself. It is an SMD LED and not an easy component to desolder & resolder.

You were 100% correct, and I apologize for my previous post.

I went to a scrap yard, and a E there had duct tape on that part of the wiring harness too. I've messed with wiring harnesses in other cars and have seen lots of electrical tape, but never grey tape that is looks the same as duct tape.

I cracked the whole thing open, put voltage across the LED, and... Nothing. The LED blew out. One new LED later, I'm passing KOEO. :razz:

 

[patrickjamesyu]

You were 100% correct, and I apologize for my previous post.

I went to a scrap yard, and a E there had duct tape on that part of the wiring harness too. I've messed with wiring harnesses in other cars and have seen lots of electrical tape, but never grey tape that is looks the same as duct tape.

I cracked the whole thing open, put voltage across the LED, and... Nothing. The LED blew out. One new LED later, I'm passing KOEO. :razz:

Did you ever get this handled?

I have a 2003, and the Check Engine light on the instrument cluster does not light up at all, but my scanner shows that I have 2 Check Engine codes.

I'm quite handy with a soldering tool. I have a decent soldering station on my workbench. Though, I've never soldered an SMD LED and it looks a bit tough.

Did you figure out what was with the wire splicing on your harness? I'm about to pull my cluster right now and see if mine has the same splicing job.