Do you have a copy of the service manual? You might want to check but I believe the circuits for all the lights (or at least some of them) are controlled by a microprocessor in the ECU or one of the other onboard computers.

I mention that as being important because the MP is probably using parameters like voltage drop and idle current to detect the presence and state of the bulbs. Because it's used to filament bulbs the LED's are obviously throwing it off. You might want to try the load resistors so see if they make a difference.

Unfortunately when you start playing with LED's all sorts of weird stuff can happen. The only way to be sure is to equalize everything so the car thinks it's still got bulbs in it.

 

Yes, I have a copy, but I don't read electrical, only english.

I was putting off the equalizers until I was sure everything would work. Not looking forward to doing all that wiring.

 

first thought...
are your LED bulbs polarized? some are and only work when plugged in the right way. if an LED bulb doesn't light when it's supposed to, then turn it around and try the other way. (there are only 2 ways.)

 

2nd thought...
7440s will only have 2 wires bent around the flat part that plugs into the socket. typically they start on 1 side and fold around to the other side. 7443s will have 4 wires bent around the flat part. typically the wires come out the bottom of the flat and 2 go up 1 side and 2 go up the other side.

3rd thought...
the side light/blinker mod is messing things up. what happens when you turn the parking lights on?

 

2nd thought...
7440s will only have 2 wires bent around the flat part that plugs into the socket. typically they start on 1 side and fold around to the other side. 7443s will have 4 wires bent around the flat part. typically the wires come out the bottom of the flat and 2 go up 1 side and 2 go up the other side.

I decided to start with the simplest problem first. Here are the two Turn Signal bulbs in question.

I BELIEVE the clear base was labeled 7440, and the black base was 7443. To be honest, the bulbs weren't labeled ON the bulb, and I didn't see the labeling on the boxes until after I had opened them and mixed them up (it was on the backside).

If nacranym is correct, they messed up and sent two 7443s, right?

IS it possible that the 7440 design just has 4 wires?

 

4th thought...
you don't want equalizers, you want a new flasher that is load independent.

 

5th thought...
leave incan in the side markers and use LEDs everywhere else. then get the load independent flasher to calm the signals.

 

oops, i stand corrected.
hadn't actually looked in my E. did the replacement in my '02 CR-V and thought the E would be similar. now i'll have to figure out something for the E to calm the signals after i switch to LEDs.

i still believe that leaving "incans" in the side markers will help Legioss' situation.

 

S.O.B.! Now one of the side marker LEDs is flickering, AFTER I messed with the base to make it fit, so now it/s unreturnable. I'll switch it to the other side tomorrow amd see if that helps. I didn't mention yet, but they sent me two DIFFERENT side marker LEDs (I made 2 orders of the same item, 2 weeks apart). When I complained, they said the stock of the 1st simply ran out, and the 2nd one is from the new stock. The 1st is no longer available. I bet the flickering one is the new one... i.e. the working one is no longer available.

 

a 7443 can be used for a 7440, but not the other way around, as far as lighting up. i don't know which filament (LED array) of the 7443 will light up when it's placed in a socket designed for a 7440. maybe the bright filament, maybe the dimmer filament.
it is possible that a 7443 base could be used under a 7440 LED array, w/ the extra internal connections left open, for example. this might be done to have simplied assembly line for the bases.

so, to answer your question, you may not be right, the 7440 could have 4 wires showing and only 2 used internally. you could still accuse them of not labeling them very well. maybe they can tell you whether clear base or black base is 7440.

 

you could still accuse them of not labeling them very well. maybe they can tell you whether clear base or black base is 7440.

Well, the duplicate pics on the website for diff items are why I ended up with two diff bulb designs (aside from being 7440 vs. 7443). The box that was labeled "7440 60 A" would be the clear base, as it has 60 leds on it. The other was 68. I'm thinking I will return the alleged 7440 (60led), and ask for a 7440 (68led). Maybe that will clear things up a bit. I already need to exchange the brake light (I got red, but meant to get clear), and i will need 1-2 more side marker bulbs, depending on which was spazzing yesterday. No time to play with them today.

 

> I already need to exchange the brake light (I got red, but meant to
> get clear...

You might be better off using that red LED, Legioss. See the following from an LED manufacturer:

Here is the reason that you do not want to use white LEDs behind a colored lens or filter:

White LEDs "trick" the eye into seeing white, unlike tungsten lights. Most white LEDs are made using two wavelengths of light, 460 nanometer blue and 590 nanometer amber. They are mixed about 70 percent blue and 30 percent amber. Using white LEDs behind a filter (red or amber) will result in very little light being visible at all! ... if you put a white LED behind a red filter, all of the colors [that make up white light] and the light energy required to produce those colors are filtered out, wasted, resulting in what appears to be a much dimmer light.

Assuming that you are talking about using a white LED behind an amber or red lens, you will lose (in the case of an amber lens) about 70% of the light generated. It's a very counterproductive thing to do. If this was not true, we would not bother to produce red and amber LED lamps!

The physics behind all this mumbo jumbo is a bit complex. But all you need to remember is to use a white LED with a white lens, a red LED with a red lens, and an amber LED with an amber lens. That way you are certain to get the biggest bang for your buck!

 

Huh... I should have bought a white and a red to compare, but I didn't know. They're going to get mad at me with more returns...

 

More Info

I finally had a chance to reorder, 7443s, 7440s, and a flasher. But I haven't had any time to install yet (doing taxes).

I did discover that the 7443s and 7440s are actually the SAME bulb. I ordered 2 of each, and got 4 of the same thing. When I contacted the seller, they said it was actually the same bulb, which can be used either way. We'll see...

Also, the item on the site for 68 LED is both incorrectly listed and incorrectly pictured:
SMT Tower V - 68 High Powered Wide Angle SMT LEDS
should actually be
SMT Tower VI - 68 High Powered Wide Angle SMT LEDS

The picture

should actually look more like the following, but with LESS LEDs.

Here are mine:

Their website appears at a few different URLs, and they all had the same (wrong) info when I last looked.

 

Yarg!

Oh god. So I finally got around to testing the new bulbs and flasher. What a mess.

Problem 1:
I bought an "EP34" flasher (again from Autolumination.com), but it DOES NOT work. In the fine print, which is not on all flashers on the site (this explains how I missed it before), it lists original flashers that it does replace, and my 04's 38300-S9V-A01 flasher isn't one of them... I don't see any matching configurations, so I will email them.

Problem 2:
Random defective sidemarker LED bulb -I will get exchanged. I would let it go, since it prob costs less than the shipping, but I have to return the flasher anyway...

*remember when reading the following, that I can only test with the Honda flasher at the moment*

Problem 3:
I put in all the "7440/7443" combo bulbs shown in last post, and all appear to work normally, except for the hyper-flash, so I can't really verify that they are working.

Problem 4:
When the headlights are on, and I use turn signal or hazard light, I LOSE side markers (remember I have side marker blinker mod). I tried putting in single LED 'bulbs' in the side markers and got the same result.

Problem 5:
When the headlights are off, and I use turn signal or hazard light, I have side markers, but various dash indicator and HVAC lights are flashing in time with the hyper-flash. Also, this white piece under the shifter (red arrows in pic below), starts shifting back and forth (yellow arrows) in time with the flash. I couldn't find a name for it, and I don't know what it does.

*edit: added more issues*

Problem 6:
Now the stop lamp LEDS are acting up. I was running ONE fine for months now so I went ahead and got a matching one. They worked fine when I put in the 2nd one today and tested. They must be tied to the turn signals somehow, because they stopped working when I put those in. Now one stop lamp is always on "stop" brightness, and the other doesn't go on at all. WTF? And when I hit the brakes, both rear turn signals come on. SOB... Same behavior when I use the remote to lock/unlock.

Problem 7:
I put in a new, unmodified, side marker LED (25leds?), and when I tested all was fine. But later at night testing, and only the 1 LED at the end of the 'bulb' lights up, and the other 24 are out.

I rush ordered a good(?) flasher replacement from V-Leds, and hopefully that will make SOME good difference. I'm going nuts. How can this install be so ridiculous???

Help?
-Flasher recommendations?
-Side Marker Turn Signal mod insight?
-Other helpful help?

 

I bought an "EP34" flasher (again from Autolumination.com), but it DOES NOT work. In the fine print, which is not on all flashers on the site (this explains how I missed it before), it lists original flashers that it does replace, and my 04's 38300-S9V-A01 flasher isn't one of them... I don't see any matching configurations, so I will email them.

I took a look at my old invoice, and the flasher that doesn't work (incompatible/broken) from Autolumination, is also listed as "CF13JL-02". Unfortunately, that's the same part number I just ordered from V-Leds, and is also carried by SuperBrightLEDs. Hopefully they use different manufacturers, or I just had a broken one...

 

More BS

Here are the two side marker LED 'bulbs' that I took out after a couple months. I had modified the base to fit, by cutting off some of the plastic, and filling the gaps with liquid electrical tape. HOWEVER, the yellow one looks like the individual lights have started to burn, even though it was in use for less time than the clear based one. And look at the burn parts INSIDE the bases. WTF?

 

Here are the two side marker LED 'bulbs' that I took out after a couple months. I had modified the base to fit, by cutting off some of the plastic, and filling the gaps with liquid electrical tape. HOWEVER, the yellow one looks like the individual lights have started to burn, even though it was in use for less time than the clear based one. And look at the burn parts INSIDE the bases. WTF?

View attachment 85278

Sorry for the accelerated death to the yellow bulb, but seriously, personally, I think these particular bulbs you are using are WAY too big for a side marker! I have used these in Orange for over three years now and they are great! The side marker in my opinion does not need to be brighter than the stock front marker/flasher within the headlight, and the wedge that I am using matches brightness and color almost exactly using a clear side marker case.

 

Legioss,
One major issue with "exterior" use LED's is the belief more LED's are better. The resistors do get hot hence the burnt housings. Those side markers dont need to be "super bright" and it looks like each one of those your running is at least 24 LED's plus however many are unseen on top. PM me your mailing info an ill send you a pair of the ones I would use if I still had side markers.

You may want to look into load equalizer's and in line resistors. It gets very expensive and frustrating trying to find the right combination but at least these days LED's are less expensive. I did this almost ten years ago for the PT Cruiser club when I had one and spent hundreds on off the shelf LED bulbs before fabricating my own. It was a two fold issue with no bulbs being sized to fit in the little housing cut out as well as putting out proper light. A friend took the design to China and a few months later, they were showing up for sale. Before the PT I did this on the 1969 Cougar (which reverted back to the same era Ford's and Merc's) and the 65 Falcon (same with other Ford's and Merc's)...

Vendors sell the product, they dont have the luxury of testing the product on every vehicle the bulb may cross reference or fit. Right now your doing the R&D of what works in the E. Hat's off to you, it will only get more expensive. Im no master in the field but I would start looking into in line load resistors and equalizers.

 

Legioss,
One major issue with "exterior" use LED's is the belief more LED's are better. The resistors do get hot hence the burnt housings. Those side markers dont need to be "super bright" and it looks like each one of those your running is at least 24 LED's plus however many are unseen on top.

Actually, I was going for the SPREAD on those. Yes they are 100% perfect brightness, but I wasn't getting a good spread of the light with other bulbs.

You may want to look into load equalizer's and in line resistors. It gets very expensive and frustrating trying to find the right combination but at least these days LED's are less expensive.

I know NOTHING about Load Eq's and Line Resistors. I though this was doable with just a Flasher replacement or I wouldn't have jumped in.

Vendors sell the product, they dont have the luxury of testing the product on every vehicle the bulb may cross reference or fit. Right now you're doing the R&D of what works in the E. Hat's off to you, it will only get more expensive.

Well, I am still in the returnable window on almost all of them. The first stop lamp was a little expensive, and is now un-returnable though. I was SURE I was good if it worked on one side... My new flasher is due in Wednesday. I have to ship back returns on Thursday or I will be shafted. I also saw enough threads on here, and heard enough mentions from people, that I thought this would be a SIMPLE mod.

 

Its simple in theory. Exterior LED's get more hostile use than interior LED's. They need to turn off and on (flash), change brightness (stop lights) and while doing all that, take in enough power to keep going while also passing on some of that power as the system was designed for a standard bulb that uses more power. Thats where load resistors/equalizers come in. Its also why most exterior LED's "burn out" so fast as most people just swap bulbs and stop there. A flasher swap is only going to work to adjust the flash rate. Its nothing to do with proper power delivery and consumption.

 

Update: Soliciting for Help with Load Equalizers/Resistors.

I am keeping one extra 7440/7443 bulb, so I might as well start trying equilizers/resistors.

Current Setup:

• V-LEDs Flasher (fixed flashing)
• 7443/7440 LEDs in Front signals = always work as expected
• 7440 incand bulbs in rear signals = always work as expected
• 194 LEDs in Side Markers = work 99% of the time (may be due to side marker signal mod)
• 7443(/7440?) LEDs in Stop Lamps = always work as expected
• 7440 LEDs in High Mount Stop Lamp = always works as expected

Questions: (regarding getting LEDs to work in those last 2 rear signals)

1. I'm confused by what situation you use a load equalizer vs. load resistor? Same thing? Different thing same result?
2. When testing them, can I work on one side of the car only to reduce my costs on test parts/returns?
3. See the following diagram. Keeping in mind that the front signals already work 100%, do I try a 3ohm or a 6ohm to remedy the situation with the rear signals?

Thanks

 

yeah, load equalizers are just a fancy name for load resistors.
yeah, you can work just 1 side at a time. that means both LEDs and resistors.
keep the other side OEM.

as to flasher, i just removed the cap of the load invariant flasher, did the same w/ the OEM flasher. then removed the base plates of both by sliding them off the prongs. then put the OEM base on the LI flasher and stuck it into the socket. no cap, as it didn't want to cooperate. that could have been ~7 years ago, don't remember exactly, and no problems.

 

Thanks. And the 3ohm vs 6ohm question?

 

if you really insist on going w/ resistors, the larger value will draw less current.
if i had to make resistors work, i think i'd get two 6ohm resistors. find a way to temporarily try the 6ohm on 1 side to see if that side works. if it's good, install the other 6ohm on the other side. if a single 6ohm doesn't do the job on 1 side, take the second 6ohm and mount it in parallel w/ the first, on the same side. (remember, we're working on 1 side at a time.) don't let "parallel" confuse you, it just means side by side, connecting the wire at the end to the corresponding wire at the end of the other resistor. anyway, two 6ohm resistors in parallel have a resistance of 3ohms. so, if this works, clean it up to be sure it really works. then get a 3ohm for the other side.

but, i would really be looking for a way to avoid using the resistors, as they're just turning power into heat. they violate my sense of aesthetics. but your sense of practicality would trump my sense of anything, on your vehicle.

 

the "equalizers w/ flash fix" are just a marketing gimmick.
sure, the equalizers fix the hyperflash, but that's because they draw about the same current as an incandescent would, so that the flashers don't know that a low current LED bulb is on the circuit, rather than an incandescent.
so, don't pay extra for an "equalizer w/ flasher fix" over the cost of resistors. the resistors by themselves fix the flasher.
the mounting plate and cover are "convenience items" for installation and to help keep anything from touching those resistors when they heat up.

 

So where do I mount this thing? I have one in-hand, but it's a quick-splice connection, so I'd rather test it in the 'final'/'installed' location (assuming it works).

 

Which wire is the running light?

So I have the equalizers in hand, I'm looking at the instructional diagram, and I have no idea which wires are which. On an '04, how do I find which is the "running light" wire, so I can bridge the OTHER two? I'm going through my '03 Service Manual, and the turn signal section doesn't seem to show what I am looking for... =\

 

A VOM or two test lights* will tell a lot. And at the risk of advising you to sink more money into this project: Electrical troubleshooting manual

*12V and continuity. Get extra bulbs for the continuity light (amhik).

 

A VOM or two test lights* will tell a lot. And at the risk of advising you to sink more money into this project: Electrical troubleshooting manual

*12V and continuity. Get extra bulbs for the continuity light.

Dang. I have a multimeter, but i don't know how to use it -haha.

 

This whole project has been quite the learning experience, hasn't it?

 

I think the final lesson is going to be that I should have installed the equalizer before anything else.

 

More argh.

I undid my Side Marker Turn Signal Mod and made SOME progress, although STILL not 100%. I also bought another pair of LED 7443s from elsewhere, just for testing purposes. Both pairs, or one bulb of each, gave the same results.

I am fully LED now, no equalizers, all signals/stop lamps function as expected with ONE exception:

If I use a turn signal (headlights off), the OPPOSITE side, FRONT signal also comes on and gives a double-flicker, on HALF the leds on the bulb, at 7440 brightness.
If I use a turn signal (headlights on), everything is 100% normal.

Ideas?

I am suspicious of the LED flasher, as the opposing double-flicker seems like it might sync with the dashboard flashing.

 

Looking at 2009 electrical manual, assume no major change on design of turn signal and hazard warning lights circuitry throughout all the years, 2 connections between left side of turning signal & right side of turning signal are 1) when hazard switch is pressed, or 2) both connected to Gauge Control Module.
I have no idea what is inside Gauge Control Module, & I assume it is fairly complicate since it control how warning lights activate in dash.

My guess is, there is slight small current leakage in Gauge Control Module between both sides. It may due to design or it may due to some defect. A large current is normally required for incand light bulb to light up, so a small current leakage between them is normally not an issue for incand to light up unwanted, but small current could active LED bulb temporary or permanently depend on amount of leakage current. This may explain when headlight is turn on, this small current leakage is decrease due to leakage current also able to flow through headlight circuitry.

One thing you could try to isolate issue, but I am not sure it will or won't disable turing signals, since I never try it & I don't have schematic inside gauge control module, is disconnect the connection go into Gauge Control Module, but this is lots of work to take gauge module off.

This is one of reason any conversion between incand to LED, if there is any control module type of circuitry between them, it is best to use load resistors to increase current drawn of LED+Load_Resistor to level similar as incand, so control module would think similar current is drawn between LED+Load_Resistor vs incand.

In some case, with control module in circuitry, both Load_Resistor & control module mod is needed to convert incand to LED. I did 2009+ dedicated DRL mod to LED, I end up had to use both load resistors & modify DRL module to disconnected electrical connection between DRL warning light in dash & DRL module to ground, so DRL warning light in dash won't light up.

Just my $0.02 ;-)

 

My guess is, there is slight small current leakage in Gauge Control Module between both sides. It may due to design or it may due to some defect. A large current is normally required for incand light bulb to light up, so a small current leakage between them is normally not an issue for incand to light up unwanted, but small current could active LED bulb temporary or permanently depend on amount of leakage current. This may explain when headlight is turn on, this small current leakage is decrease due to leakage current also able to flow through headlight circuitry.
Just my $0.02 ;-)

Jazzy, thanks for the 2c.

I went to the SoCal Element meet yesterday, and someone else had the same flasher as me, and was having the same bleed show in the front turn signals and in the gauges. Unfortunately, he also had it in UNMODIFIED Side Markers. Mine aren't even connected since I just cut out the old Turn Signal mod, so I may have the same problem. I still wonder why the rear signals show no bleed, but I think your are right about the GCM. I'm trying to come up with an alternative method to mod them back into turn signals, and then check if they show the same bleed. If so, I guess I will be looking at equilizers.

 

Its kind of hard to follow this thread, but Im having issues with the WLED-AHP6 for the side markers and it may be the same thing Leg is dealing with. I think this LED is the wrong size somewhere in the base.

If i just push it in place, NOTHING. If i push it to one of the flat sides, it WORKS! If i push it to the other side NOTHING. I tried bending the connectors in the socket inward, but nothing really helps. If the socket jiggles the light stops again. I think i need to wedge something in. Maybe a piece of solid copper on one of the terminal sides, or a non conductive buffer on the other. Both sound sketchy...

E_Biker and others with this bulb, any suggestions?

 

Sounds like they are just loose. I don't think you've gotten to the other problem yet, but I'm curious how the rest of it will go. I'd guess your current problem is specific to either that particular 'bulb' or maybe there was a bad batch if others have the same bulb without issues. I had that problem with some #74 leds, one 'board' base was too thin, one was just right.

 

DOH, i think i just found my problem. the connectors do not have the rounded bump of solder on them. They are just flat rectangles. Damn

sorry for the hijack