I suggest you do two drain and refills of the transmission fluid with a little driving between the two if you have no record of a fluid change every being done. Take the opportunity to replace the AT fluid filter as well. It is located behind the bottom center of the radiator on a bracket on the engine cradle in one of the lines to the trans cooler.

 

I appreciate your reply. I have the Honda 2007-2009 Element Service Manual and I'm familiar with the procedure.

btw, You have a common misconception. That is not the AT filter, it is the transmission cooler filter. Its function is to protect the transmission cooler. It is normally changed only when a transmission rebuild is required to assure that no metal particles have reached that filter and restricted the flow. The Element hasn't an accessible transmission filter. It has one internal to the unit, in line with the pump and inaccessible without removal and disassembly.

I was actually looking for ideas about external components that would affect low range shifting. The closest symptom in the Service Manual is p 14-20, "Excessive shock or flares on 1-2 upshift or 2-1 downshift". My code reader can't read transmission codes and the only external part related to that symptom is shift solenoid E, which is beyond my ability to access.

When I bought the car the dealer said it had a recent ATF change. I checked all the fluids for color and odor before purchase. The ATF was red and clear on a paper towel with no trace of discoloration or unusual odor at that time. That was about 20,000 miles and 5-1/2 years ago.

I had no schedule for this model so I was waiting for a Maintenance Minder code. I should have trusted my instinct and followed the schedule for my first, 2004 Element. I would rather do more frequent preventative drains and refills than wait until a fluid is depleted of an additive.

My normal trips are short and local, no highway driving, barely long enough to get everything warmed up. This year I've been replacing all the fluids because I'm concerned about condensation accumulation. The ATF was last on my list as have two 100 mile trips scheduled in October. If the problem persists after multiple spill and fill ATF changes I'll be going to a pro to get the transmission codes read.

 

Changing the ATF once seems to have cured the problem, but my fluid change didn't go quite as planned.

I'm a "by the book" guy. If there is a book I will try to follow it. If not, I'll write one to follow the next time.

According the 2008 Owners Manual AND 2007-09 Service Manual, the 5 speed AT supposedly uses 2.6 qt (2qt-19.2oz)/spill & fill so 3 qts should be enough for one change and 6 quarts should be enough for 2 changes.

But it isn't! Both manuals have the wrong specifications for refill.(see photos). If you are going to do 2 changes, get 7 qts ATF, if 3 changes get 10 qts (and work carefully.)

I used a measuring cup to add the "last" expected partial quart. Then I added another 4 oz, and another 4 oz, and another, until I'd used 3 full quarts. The fluid still wasn't on the stick! I did this twice more, about 3.25 quarts. By the time I was done measuring the last fluid addition the engine was cold. The fluid level was just barely into the hatched area. The 3.3qt estimate is what I will use from now on.​

I work slower than a pro mechanic and on the ground. I couldn't get the drain plug out with my 3/8 ratchet There wasn't enough room to apply leverage. Because the plug was so tight I had to jack the car up to crack it loose. Then I had to use my torque wrench which has a ratchet instead of my breaker bar which doesn't. It took 65 lbf-ft to get the AT plug loose. (36lbf-ft is the torque spec for installation. )

I had to lower the car to level it to drain, raise it to torque the drain plug with new crush washer, and lower it again to fill., then I noted the same thing doing the rear differential. (It took more than 80 lbf-ft to break those plugs free.)​

​

All the previous maintenance was done by the Honda dealership that sold the car to its previous (first) owner. I will never again trust a mechanic who says he can torque these crush washer fittings by feel or believe he used a new crush washer. The ones I removed were galled and scored on both faces. That shouldn't happen with 35-36 lbf-ft of torque. I did all the oil and fluid changes of my previous Element. None of those removed washers looked as bad as these did.​

I warmed it up the car by driving it slowly and then letting it idle with the headlights on high beam until the fan kicked in. I shut down the engine, and within the 60-90 second interval, checked the fluid level. It was right in the checked area.

My 12-year old used E's fluid was very dark with uncertain history. I notice some improvement in low speed shifting after one change and 10 miles driving. After driving it for a few days, I've decided to do a 2nd change, and have the supplies on hand to do a third one next spring or summer. (The way that COVID is playing out I doubt that I'll drive 2000 miles before then.)

For those considering multiple changes, if depends on the condition of your fluid whether it is necessary, but here are the numbers:
Total Used qt old after % old after % changed
1 change 3.3qt 3.9qt 54.2% 45.8%
2 changes 6.6qt 1.755qt* ~25% 75.2% *(.458*3.9)
3 changes 9.9qt 0.81qt* ~11.2% 88.8% *(.458*1.76)

 

Looking at the hydraulic circuit diagram and description in my 2007-2009 Element Service Manual, it states "As the engine turns, the ATF pump starts to operate. Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) is drawn through the ATF strainer (filter) and discharged into the hydraulic circuit." In the schematic, the in-line filter is shown downstream of the cooler, then the larger internal screen, then the pump, so I don't think the in-line filter's primary purpose is to protect the cooler.

 

Thanks. I see what you are saying. Now I'm confused. I searched the service manual looking for identification of the cooler inlet and outlet. I found inconsistent information.

The hose diagram is explicit about where the filter physically connects, but without labeling. The cleaning diagram on p14-239 shows the red hose connected to the cooler outlet, says says that is where the filter normally connects but then shows the red hose connected to the other outlet. The blue hose is described as connecting to the cooler inlet.

It looks to me like the only downside of changing the filter would be a possible loss of a loss of a quart of ATF, (which might improve the ATF replenishment effectiveness). But if that filter is critical to protecting the AT, why would Honda NOT have the filter as an item to be replaced when doing an ATF replacement?

What could get through the tiny passages of the transmission cooler that would be able to damage the transmission? Perhaps that filter to protect the AT from a deteriorating cooler instead of vice versa?
Have you ever cut apart a removed AT filter to see what was caught by it?

 

If you read the description of the cooler cleaning procedure (which I didn't before because I don't have a cooler cleaner), they switch the red and blue lines half way through to flush the cooler in both directions. I'll go with the schematic and the description of the cooler outlet being the one that goes to the filter.

As I noted in another thread on a a similar topic, you really don't lose much fluid when changing the filter; just have some handy to top off the transmission afterward.

 

If you read the description of the cooler cleaning procedure (which I didn't before because I don't have a cooler cleaner), they switch the red and blue lines half way through to flush the cooler in both directions. I'll go with the schematic and the description of the cooler outlet being the one that goes to the filter.

As I noted in another thread on a a similar topic, you really don't lose much fluid when changing the filter; just have some handy to top off the transmission afterward.

Thanks again.

I also don't have a cleaner, and I didn't read the cleaning description onto the next page where they did the reversal. I sometimes forget that tech manuals are ornate street signs. They make perfect sense to the people who already know what they "say", and don't need them. I should know better, having revised technical documentation to address questions from users.

I'm an engineer, not a tech. I have had a lot of trouble with this part of the Honda Service Manual. The transmission power flow diagrams, logic diagrams and electrical circuit diagrams are clear to me, but their hydraulic schematics are very hard to follow since the flow direction isn't noted ,and many of the mechanical views lack orientation indices. I had the view of the AT drain plug with me lying on my back under it. I figured out where it was from seeing it first and then couldn't figure out the artists viewpoint until I realized it was without any of the splash shields installed.

I'm doing the second ATF change tomorrow and will take a look at how hard it is to remove the splash shield to access the pump filter for next change. This car had a front end collision when it was new. All the 6mm bolts that I've tried to remove from around the bumper cover have been rusted solid and had to be drilled out and the hardware replaced, and/or the area where the clipnuts fastened was torn up. That added more than doubled the time to replace a windshield washer pump.

 

Both mine and my son's came apart pretty easily. I didn't completely remove the splash shield, just took out enough clips to drop the rear of it enough to access the filter (you say to access the pump, I assume you mean the filter). I had the front end either on jack stands or ramps for a lot of room for me under the vehicle (having the front raised that much probably helps in minimizing how little fluid drains when you change the filter). I am an engineer as well Our complicated aircraft engine control schematics are always easier to decipher with various colors.

 

Yes,I meant filter. I was thinking the washer pump and concealed damage. If it's enough to drop the rear and leave the front clips (and bolts) in place, then that should be easy. I have to use a hydraulic jack and stands to get enough room to remove and torque the AT drain bolt anyway.

fwiw:

When I was first working as an engineer, we didn't have colored communication and control wiring diagrams. We drew them by hand used pencil or black ink, copied them with blueprint or diazo printing, or for very small diagrams, by xerox. Those diagrams were good enough for little projects like the Pentagon, Manhattan Project, Sears Tower, the original World Trade Center and the Space Shuttle.

We put circuit numbers and color codes next to every line for factory and field workers to match. When we needed to illustrate how something worked, we put arrows and numbers next the lines to indicate signal flow. That last was a something that we electrical engineers adopted from mechanical engineers who documented air control, fluid delivery and fluidic/hydraulic control systems long before us.

I spent the 20 years of my career as a network engineer, so I appreciate what modern tech can help people do. But I miss the extra care that went into what we did when it was so much harder and costlier to do it over, when we had to get every job right the first time and deliver them to meet fixed deadlines.

 

I just completed the second fluid change on my 2008 EX AWD .

During the first change I did it “by the book” with the engine first warmed up. But I had to raise the car to break the drain plug loose. I had to raise it again to torque the drain bolt to spec when I installed it. Raising and lowering the car to remove and re-torque the drain and getting up and down off the ground was a lot of work.

When doing the drain I noticed that fluid didn't start noticeably weeping until the plug was out more than a few turns.

This time I tried doing it with the car on the ground. Before warming up the engine, I cracked the drain plug free. With the splash shield pushed up to clear the bolt, I put a 3 x 3/8 extension bar into the drain plug. This held the splash shield out of the way. I had enough room to use my torque wrench. With it set to 40 lbf-ft, the plug came free before the wrench clicked.

I left the extension in place while the engine got up to operating temp and the fan started.

After shutting off the engine I was able to use my 3/8 ratchet to loosen the plug one turns. I added a 6" swivel adapter and extension to get the wrench and my hand free of the expected fluid flow and the drip pan. I waited until the draining was down to a dribble and installed the plug and a new washer using the 3" extension and the torque wrench set to 36 lbf-ft.

Then I rapidly added 3qt-10oz of ATF, drove for a few miles to cycle all the gears and warm the engine. When I checked the level, it was at the bottom of the grid. I added 4 more oz, re-warmed the engine and checked again. It was right in the middle of the grid.

I don't know how much of the difficulty I had the first time was from the drain being over-tightened. If I had a long handle 3/8" ratchet, maybe I could have avoided jacking up the car. What I do know is that using a 3" extension bar - the cheapest tool I have- to get the splash shield out of the way made it much easier to do this job.

ps I have a filter ordered for the next change.